Saints Vs Leinster Round 1!

Northampton Saints - VS- Leinster
Friday Dec 8th 19:45
Franklin Gardens

Match Officials:

Referee: Jerome Garces (FRA)
AR 1: Adrien Descottes (FRA)
AR 2: Sebastien Cloute (FRA)
TMO: Eric Gauzins (FRA)

Northampton : TBA

Leinster: LEINSTER: (Leinster caps in brackets)

15. Rob Kearney (182)
14. Adam Byrne (8)
13. Garry Ringrose (29)
12. Robbie Henshaw (3)
11. Isa Nacewa CAPTAIN (158)
10. Joey Carbery (10)
9. Luke McGrath (59)
1. Jack McGrath (101)
2. Sean Cronin (121)
3. Tadhg Furlong (56)
4. Devin Toner (187)
5. Hayden Triggs (18)
6. Sean O’Brien (105)
7. Josh van der Flier (32)
8. Jamie Heaslip (223)

16. James Tracy (27)
17. Cian Healy (161)
18. Michael Bent (70)
19. Rhys Ruddock (119)
20. Jack Conan (35)
21. Jamison Gibson-Park (10)
22. Ross Byrne (7)
23. Rory O’Loughlin (7)

Saints team:

15 Ben Foden
14 Ken Pisi
13 Luther Burrell
12 JJ Hanrahan
11 Jamie Elliott
10 Stephen Myler
9 Nic Groom
1 Alex Waller
2 Mikey Haywood
3 Paul Hill
4 Michael Paterson
5 Courtney Lawes
6 Jamie Gibson
7 Tom Wood (capt)
8 Louis Picamoles

16 Dylan Hartley
17 Ethan Waller
18 Gareth Denman
19 Api Ratuniyarawa
20 Teimana Harrison
21 Tom Kessell
22 George Pisi
23 Ahsee Tuala

Leinster have put an extra flanker on the bench sacrificing a lock option. Ruddock can do a job, but feels like they might doubt fitness of SOB.

I like the starting tight five. Our replacement TH is a bit weak.

That Leinster backrow might be able to do job. They are up against formidable competition there though.


Surprised Kirchner isn't on the bench but like the starting backline. This might be an interesting game for Adam Byrne, he's been developing nicely this season and this game will be a good step up for him.

JJ as an inside centre? Feels like two kicking options which would be surprising for a home side to make that decision. Is the kid Mallinder fit, thought he would be in the squad somewhere.

Have to think this is a Saints home win. Strong Aviva team against a pro12 side. Hopefully Leinster can pick up a LBP and keep players fit for the return leg. Leinster don't have the depth that the deep pocketed english teams can afford.

JJ played inside centre last match. I can see why we'd want more kicking, our ball in hand play is abysmal and set piece strong. Also I wonder if it's a way to get a look at him without having to rely on his goal kicking. Mallinder is injured.

Not so sure about strong Aviva team. Although I'm going home and away so lets hope so!

thebandwagonsociety wrote:Leinster have put an extra flanker on the bench sacrificing a lock option.  Ruddock can do a job, but feels like they might doubt fitness of SOB.

I like the starting tight five.  Our replacement TH is a bit weak.

That Leinster backrow might be able to do job.  They are up against formidable competition there though.


Surprised Kirchner isn't on the bench but like the starting backline.  This might be an interesting game for Adam Byrne, he's been developing nicely this season and this game will be a good step up for him.

JJ as an inside centre? Feels like two kicking options which would be surprising for a home side to make that decision.  Is the kid Mallinder fit, thought he would be in the squad somewhere.

Have to think this is a Saints home win.  Strong Aviva team against a pro12 side. Hopefully Leinster can pick up a LBP and keep players fit for the return leg.  Leinster don't have the depth that the deep pocketed english teams can afford.

I think its a good Leinster team and they shouldn't be settling for a BP. Its a very strong pack with a very strong bench (forwards wise). If those players can continue from their AI form then we should be matching them. Hopefully the lack of a 2nd row doesn't bite us in the ass.

Has JJ been playing well this season?

Hanrahan has mainly been injured. 

Saints were poor last weekend and only escaped a kicking in the East Midlands derby match with some ferocious defence. Saints are in the bottom half of the AP table for a reason.

This should be a five pointer for Leinster ideally, with a win an absolute minimum given the players available in the squad.

The only drawback is that this Leinster team has not been playing the last few weeks, but they should all know each other well from test duty.

I'm going for a Leinster win, and vdF to score the first try.

thebandwagonsociety wrote:Leinster have put an extra flanker on the bench sacrificing a lock option.  Ruddock can do a job, but feels like they might doubt fitness of SOB.

I like the starting tight five.  Our replacement TH is a bit weak.

That Leinster backrow might be able to do job.  They are up against formidable competition there though.


Surprised Kirchner isn't on the bench but like the starting backline.  This might be an interesting game for Adam Byrne, he's been developing nicely this season and this game will be a good step up for him.

JJ as an inside centre? Feels like two kicking options which would be surprising for a home side to make that decision.  Is the kid Mallinder fit, thought he would be in the squad somewhere.

Have to think this is a Saints home win.  Strong Aviva team against a pro12 side. Hopefully Leinster can pick up a LBP and keep players fit for the return leg.  Leinster don't have the depth that the deep pocketed english teams can afford.

Harry Mallinder is out until sometime in the new year after undergoing ankle surgery, Saints are really missing him, JJ has been out as well, but is not really in the same class.

Eddie Jones just walked past!

That Kearney break for the Ringrose try is one Secretfly will appreciate

What a dicking this is going to be.

Good physical game here!

Actually we've picked up after the first 10 minutes. Some good defence and our lineout has been great. Couple of spells of pressure we should probably have had points from though.

Not as bad as I thought it might be after the first 10 minutes.

Ref is letting Leinster get away with murder at the breakdown, blocking off, taking out players off the outside of the ruck/maul to make space.

Patterson, doing well in the lineout, but a liability everywhere else, missed tackles, high tackles, no go forward. the side is being held together by Tom Wood at the moment.

Leinster looking very dangerous ball in hand, their backs running far too freely.

Yeah I personally thought they should have been pinged a couple of times for holding on but our breakdown has been good. Couple of important turnovers. Yeah their attack looks strong and we miss a lot of tackles. Need to be a bit more accurate from the boot.

Well past it - from the other point of view he is allowing Saints to use the creative John Jeffries offside line :-)

What a moron.

Holy crap! Another red card for Hartley for an exceptional piece of thuggery! What on earth was he thinking there?

Hartley is such a stupid plank. A long ban in order due to his record.

Why did the Saints take off Wood? Even Jones was shaking his head.

Gibson should of gone off he has been a penalty magnet so far.

Clear red card. Interesting to know how Jones will react. Garces, the referee who sent Hartley off, is due to officiate the Ireland v England 6 Nations match.

One of the worst kicks I've ever seen from Luther. And I don't know what the hell Foden was doing.

Nothing in the Hartley tackle - just a hello remember me to O'Brien.

Ref being swayed by the Leinster fans.

Well played Leinster.

What a load of crap.

Hartley and the taking off of Tom Wood being the crucial moments for me.

What a result for Leinster. They are in a great position.

I think Hartley intention was to dislodge the ball but SOB was going down under the tackle. Stupid thing to do tho and here comes a nice long ban I hope

Congrats, Leinster

5 point victory away, and Saints will be without Hartley for the home game. Have to believe Leinster will make the quarters.

I thought Hartley was a reformed character. Sadly not. Deserved red, and seriously hurt his sides chances of getting back into the game.

Hartley mis timed. I expected the carrier to stay up but he went down and Hartley mistimed it.

Under today's laws yes it's a red but it happens all the time at local level.

My concern is does Hartley have suspensions suspended for previous incindents?

Cowan dickie before injury and George were putting pressure on Hartley for his position.

George been great for years and Cowan dickie now he has sorted his throw looks the future

Having reviewed the Hartley incident, I now believe it was an accident:

Saint-or-Sinner?

Still likely to get a week or two suspension.

Didn't get to see the game. How did the Leinster centres get on?

Munchkin wrote:Having reviewed the Hartley incident, I now believe it was an accident:

Saint-or-Sinner?

Still likely to get a week or two suspension.

1-2 week is correct. Was an accident but timed poorly all
Same

Munchkin wrote:Having reviewed the Hartley incident, I now believe it was an accident:

Saint-or-Sinner?

Still likely to get a week or two suspension.

Hartley is a Kiwi isn't he so at the hearing that incident is bound to be deemed accidental

No citing required for Hartley surely?

He got red card.

anonmattyt wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Having reviewed the Hartley incident, I now believe it was an accident:

Saint-or-Sinner?

Still likely to get a week or two suspension.

1-2 week is correct. Was an accident but timed poorly all
Same

Agreed it's a bit dim but he's clearly got his head down and mistimed it. Red because it's a swinging arm to the head but low end of the scale. 

Someone else mentioned any sanctions pending but Hartley has been a relative good boy in the last 18 months with the exception being a little bit of head nudging against Jamie George that got him a low end ban.

The Great Aukster wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Having reviewed the Hartley incident, I now believe it was an accident:

Saint-or-Sinner?

Still likely to get a week or two suspension.

Hartley is a Kiwi isn't he so at the hearing that incident is bound to be deemed accidental

hmmm ... 50/50 I would say. Dead cert if he was an AB

Pot Hale wrote:No citing required for Hartley surely?

He got red card.

All red cards are cited

Pot Hale wrote:No citing required for Hartley surely?

He got red card.

Automatic citing for Red Card.

anonmattyt wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Having reviewed the Hartley incident, I now believe it was an accident:

Saint-or-Sinner?

Still likely to get a week or two suspension.

1-2 week is correct. Was an accident but timed poorly all
Same

Can't see it much more than that, but then citing panels are not very consistent.

Munchkin - not deliberate no - I think he was intending to dislodge the ball. reckless tho and made contact with the head. so the red is right. Usually a 2 - 4 week ban for a red is it not so expect at least 4 weeks

Maine man wrote:Didn't get to see the game. How did the Leinster centres get on?

OK

Disrupted by loosing Carberry early on.

TJ wrote:Munchkin - not deliberate no - I think he was intending to dislodge the ball.  reckless tho and made contact with the head. so the red is right.  Usually a 2 - 4 week ban for a red is it not so expect at least 4 weeks

Normally I would think a week or two, but then his past record isn't great. So you might be right.

Maine man wrote:Didn't get to see the game. How did the Leinster centres get on?

Henshaw was totally anonymous. Ringrose took his try well and made a few nice breaks, but he was physically weak at times. Missed 4 tackles or something overall but they were mostly on big Pacific Islanders.

Saints are poor and mallinder must surely go?

Hartley mis timed but a red in this day.

Still a great player and captain. I want my front row to have an edge

Posted this on the Hartley thread on International, but agree with others here:

"I'm going to go out on a limb here and back Hartley in this incident. When you watch it in real time, and actually in slow motion too, for me he lines O'Brien up for a strong hit around the shoulder/chest area, arm wrapped around as its meant to be, and then O'Brien is suddenly taken down quite quickly and so Hartley's almost perfectly good tackle turns into a swinging arm to the head due to O'Brien's suddenly different body position vertically. Very unfortunate I think, and looks like swinging arm if you just see the hit to the head, but I think in the slow mo you can see Hartley initiatives the 'hit' when O'Brien is still on his feet and as I say the sudden the change in position of O'Brien's body has done for him."

Had a look at the IRB site for what sanctions might apply. 4 weeks would be the starting point for this and it can be increased for previous bad behaviour. I think he will be lucky to get only 4 weeks.

10.4(a)
Striking another Player with a hand, arm or fist
LE – 2 weeks
MR – 4 weeks
TE – 8+ weeks
A strike to the head shall result in at least a mid-range entry point sanction.

Griff wrote:Posted this on the Hartley thread on International, but agree with others here:

"I'm going to go out on a limb here and back Hartley in this incident. When you watch it in real time, and actually in slow motion too, for me he lines O'Brien up for a strong hit around the shoulder/chest area, arm wrapped around as its meant to be, and then O'Brien is suddenly taken down quite quickly and so Hartley's  almost perfectly good tackle turns into a swinging arm to the head due to O'Brien's suddenly different body position vertically. Very unfortunate I think, and looks like swinging arm if you just see the hit to the head, but I think in the slow mo you can see Hartley initiatives the 'hit' when O'Brien is still on his feet and as I say the sudden the change in position of O'Brien's body has done for him."

Yes obrien dropped suddenly and that's why it happened.

2 weeks Max

17.19.2 Disciplinary Committees or Judicial Officers shall undertake an assessment of the seriousness of the Player’s conduct that constitutes the offending and categorise that conduct as being at the lower end, mid range or top end of the scale of seriousness in order to identify the appropriate entry point for consideration of a particular incident(s) of Foul Play where such incident(s) is expressly covered in Appendix 1. The assessment of the seriousness of the Player’s conduct shall be determined by reference to the following features:

(a) whether the offending was intentional or deliberate;

(b) whether the offending was reckless, that is the Player knew (or should have known) there was a risk of committing an act of Foul Play;

(c) the gravity of the Player’s actions in relation to the offending;

(d) the nature of the actions, the manner in which the offence was committed including part of body used (for example, fist, elbow, knee or boot);

(e) the existence of provocation;

(f) whether the Player acted in retaliation and the timing of such;

(g) whether the Player acted in self-defence (that is whether he used a reasonable degree of force in defending himself);

(h) the effect of the Player’s actions on the victim (for example, extent of injury, removal of victim Player from the game);

anonmattyt wrote:

Griff wrote:Posted this on the Hartley thread on International, but agree with others here:

"I'm going to go out on a limb here and back Hartley in this incident. When you watch it in real time, and actually in slow motion too, for me he lines O'Brien up for a strong hit around the shoulder/chest area, arm wrapped around as its meant to be, and then O'Brien is suddenly taken down quite quickly and so Hartley's  almost perfectly good tackle turns into a swinging arm to the head due to O'Brien's suddenly different body position vertically. Very unfortunate I think, and looks like swinging arm if you just see the hit to the head, but I think in the slow mo you can see Hartley initiatives the 'hit' when O'Brien is still on his feet and as I say the sudden the change in position of O'Brien's body has done for him."

Yes obrien dropped suddenly and that's why it happened.

2 weeks Max

Look at my post above. 4 week minimum as a starting point