Team of the 6 Nations

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Team of the 6 Nations

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Sun 19 Mar 2017, 4:58 am

First topic message reminder :

Obviously objective, but worth the discussion. Feel free to pitch in with your team and explanations.  

Stats....credit to George...

1. The following players won man of the match awards:

- Stuart Hogg (Scotland)
- Louis Picamoles (France)
- Leigh Halfpenny (Wales)
- CJ Stander (Ireland)
- Joe Launchbury (England)
- Kevin Gourdon (France)
- Finn Russell (Scotland) x 2
- Conor Murray (Ireland)
- Joe Launchbury (England)
- Rhys Webb (Wales)
- Baptiste Serin (France)
- Jonathan Joseph (England)
- Brice Dulin (France)
- Peter O'Mahony (Ireland)

2. Nobody was top try scorer outright - the following players all scored 3 tries apiece:

Danny Care (England)
Keith Earls (Ireland)
Craig Gilroy (Ireland)
Stuart Hogg (Scotland)
Jonathan Joseph (England)
George North (Wales)
CJ Stander (Ireland)
Liam Williams (Wales)

3. Top points scorers:

1 Camille Lopez France 67
2 Owen Farrell England 63
3 Leigh Halfpenny Wales 62
4 Finn Russell Scotland 45
5 Paddy Jackson Ireland 36

1. Baille - Impressive 6N for the big man. Scrummed extremely well and showed up well in the loose, Marler/McGrath worth a shout.

2. Guiardo - Standout hooker. Did the basics well and excellent in the loose.

3. Furlong - Became less dominant in the set piece as the tournament went on but always solid and carried hard.

4. Launchbury - Starting only because of injuries, he's nailed his place. An excellent 6N for the big man.

5. AWJ - A tough call with Gray and Lawes also impressing. Was a constant presence and showed his Lions credentials.

6. Stander - The standout 6, a wrecking ball of a carrier.

7. Tipuric - An excellent 6N for the Ospreys 7. Really put his hand up for the Lions and defied opinions of his lack of physicality.

8. Picamoles - Started excellently but became quiet as the tournament went on. Dragged France through the early games.  

9. Serin - Looks a fantastic find for the French. Murray and Webb a close call too.

10. Bigger - Perhaps controversial but I thought he was generally very good. A real chance of Lions spot this Summer.

11. Daly - Williams worth a shout but Daly had a good 6N, although his defence is still questionable.

12. Farrell - Bar the Italian game, he was very good. Making the 12 shirt his own. More by default with no other real options.

13. JJ - A tough call but the game against Scotland was just outstanding. Campagnaro a worthy shout for Italy.

14. North - Grew into the competition. After a poor game v Scotland, was possibly one of the best backs in the 6N.

15. Hogg - The standout FB, nobody else really close.


So.....

England - 4
France - 4
Wales - 4
Ireland - 2
Scotland - 1
Italy - 0

Tough on Scotland as they were fantastic at times. Gray Jnr, Laidlaw and Russell all with valid shouts for a place.


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Re: Team of the 6 Nations

Post by beshocked on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 12:40 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I'm not sure what tennis has to do with this thread??

About Scottish sportsmen being overhyped. I am all for some recognition but it's ridiculous.

Go from one extreme to the other.

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Re: Team of the 6 Nations

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 12:42 pm

beshocked wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:I'm not sure what tennis has to do with this thread??

About Scottish sportsmen being overhyped. I am all for some recognition but it's ridiculous.

Go from one extreme to the other.

It's a good job we don't live in a glass house.......Itoje Whistle

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Re: Team of the 6 Nations

Post by beshocked on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 12:49 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
beshocked wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:I'm not sure what tennis has to do with this thread??

About Scottish sportsmen being overhyped. I am all for some recognition but it's ridiculous.

Go from one extreme to the other.

It's a good job we don't live in a glass house.......Itoje Whistle

He is a bit overhyped but then again he hasn't won 6 nations award two times in a year or SPOTY 3 times in 4 years... Whistle

I know more than most about Itoje's weaknesses, I mentioned many times his poor discipline if you ever learn to listen.

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Re: Team of the 6 Nations

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 12:53 pm

Itoje a little over hyped? Shocked

I don't think Hogg is particularly overhyped, he's the best FB in the NH. Winning awards kind of backs this up.

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Re: Team of the 6 Nations

Post by EWT Spoons on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 12:53 pm

beshocked wrote:
EWT Spoons wrote:
beshocked wrote:
EWT Spoons wrote:
beshocked wrote:
IanBru wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:I don't want to sound too bitter but Launchbury's contribution was more telling than Hogg's and he deserved the award.
That's a perfectly reasonable opinion to hold regarding Launchbury's contribution. Launchbury would definitely have deserved it had he won it, but he received fewer votes than Hogg - 19,000 more people made a judgment based on their reflections on the tournament and felt that Hogg deserved it more. So no, Launchbury didn't deserve it.

Scots seem to vote more. It's why Murray seems to win sports personality of the year so often in recent years.

Hogg just happens to be someone people recognise because he can run fast.

More often than not it's a back who wins the award.

Completely ignore that Russell has basically been feeding Hogg. Hogg's performances wouldn't have been possible without Russell pulling the strings.

Are you serious with this chat?

Nothing to do with his successes?  Gold medals at olympics, winning wimbledon and a host of other tournaments, becoming world number 1....nope none of this matters, it's because he is Scottish.

Way to belittle the achievements of these people based on your assumption that Scottish people vote more.

Murray deserves to be recognised but 3 times in the last 4 years? Come on seriously? Murray has done well but in his sport he's not exceptional.

Same with Hogg sure, give him the award in 2017 but 2 in a row? That's a joke seriously?

I am not saying Hogg and Murray aren't impressive athletes but IMO they've got too much hype and praise.

You're totally right, world number 1 is not exceptional, winning gold medals at the olympics is not exceptional, everyone is totally capable of that.  I mean I achieved that before breakfast today, what's all the fuss about.


In his sport I said. Murray is the best British tennis player of all time but 3 slams is a small amount when compared to his main rivals. Look I don't want to bash Murray. He's done well but come on - 3 SPOTY in 4 years is excessive. There are other sportsmen in Britain.

Similarly there are other rugby players in the 6 nations not just Hogg.

Sorry I didn't realise being carted off injured after 18 minutes counted as a notable appearance but sure, yes technically Hogg did play vs England, just didn't last long.

Apologies you are correct.

You said "in his sport he's not exceptional". He's won slams, is world number one and won various gold medals at the olympics and more. I would say that makes him exceptional, or at the very least one of the most successful individual sports people we have in Britain (currently), which is probably why he keeps winning these awards.

I didn't mention Hogg's appearance against England. I thought he did well enough for the 18mins he was on, I also didn't vote for him as player of the tournament, but don't let that stop you.

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Re: Team of the 6 Nations

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 12:57 pm

Itoje was pretty average in this tournament, I thought. It usually happens though, a player is overhyped in his first year and then he rarely puts in the same eye-catching performances from that point onwards.

He has the potential to be a world class lock but he isn't there yet and he isn't as good as some have claimed in the past.

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Re: Team of the 6 Nations

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 1:00 pm

Yeah, I don't see how Hogg is overhyped. Maybe by some Scottish fans. He has consistently been a dangerous threat for Scotland and Glasgow, and one of the few players in the NH who scare me when they have the ball.

Question for opposition fans - do any of the Irish players have that "threat" factor, particularly in the back three? I don't think we do.

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Re: Team of the 6 Nations

Post by beshocked on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 1:02 pm

EWT Spoons wrote:
beshocked wrote:
EWT Spoons wrote:
beshocked wrote:
EWT Spoons wrote:
beshocked wrote:
IanBru wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:I don't want to sound too bitter but Launchbury's contribution was more telling than Hogg's and he deserved the award.
That's a perfectly reasonable opinion to hold regarding Launchbury's contribution. Launchbury would definitely have deserved it had he won it, but he received fewer votes than Hogg - 19,000 more people made a judgment based on their reflections on the tournament and felt that Hogg deserved it more. So no, Launchbury didn't deserve it.

Scots seem to vote more. It's why Murray seems to win sports personality of the year so often in recent years.

Hogg just happens to be someone people recognise because he can run fast.

More often than not it's a back who wins the award.

Completely ignore that Russell has basically been feeding Hogg. Hogg's performances wouldn't have been possible without Russell pulling the strings.

Are you serious with this chat?

Nothing to do with his successes?  Gold medals at olympics, winning wimbledon and a host of other tournaments, becoming world number 1....nope none of this matters, it's because he is Scottish.

Way to belittle the achievements of these people based on your assumption that Scottish people vote more.

Murray deserves to be recognised but 3 times in the last 4 years? Come on seriously? Murray has done well but in his sport he's not exceptional.

Same with Hogg sure, give him the award in 2017 but 2 in a row? That's a joke seriously?

I am not saying Hogg and Murray aren't impressive athletes but IMO they've got too much hype and praise.

You're totally right, world number 1 is not exceptional, winning gold medals at the olympics is not exceptional, everyone is totally capable of that.  I mean I achieved that before breakfast today, what's all the fuss about.


In his sport I said. Murray is the best British tennis player of all time but 3 slams is a small amount when compared to his main rivals. Look I don't want to bash Murray. He's done well but come on - 3 SPOTY in 4 years is excessive. There are other sportsmen in Britain.

Similarly there are other rugby players in the 6 nations not just Hogg.

Sorry I didn't realise being carted off injured after 18 minutes counted as a notable appearance but sure, yes technically Hogg did play vs England, just didn't last long.

Apologies you are correct.

You said "in his sport he's not exceptional".  He's won slams, is world number one and won various gold medals at the olympics and more.  I would say that makes him exceptional, or at the very least one of the most successful individual sports people we have in Britain (currently), which is probably why he keeps winning these awards.

I didn't mention Hogg's appearance against England.  I thought he did well enough for the 18mins he was on, I also didn't vote for him as player of the tournament, but don't let that stop you.

Compared to the likes of Federer,Djokovic and Nadal - no Murray is not exceptional. Murray has done well. I am not denying that but you'd think there are no other sportsmen or women in the UK.

Surely even you can understand why I think 3 awards in 4 years is excessive? Murray has done well but in 2016 there were many impressive sporting feats.

Surely you can see why I think Hogg winning two awards in a row is excessive?

Of course you'll interpret this as bashing Scottish sports people? No not at all - I think some recognition is great but not too much.

Billy was clearly the best player in 2016 with 3 MOTM awards but was robbed.

Itoje wasn't as bad as some people are making out - sure he's overhyped but he's had more responsibility but on his shoulders because Hartley's leadership was missing in this year's 6 nations, Launchbury can't call at the lineout for some reason. More pressure was put on Itoje and I don't think it's fair.

Itoje also had to combat someone who knew all about the England gameplan,lineout calls etc - Andy Farrell vs Ireland.

No coach was better placed than Andy Farrell to neutralise England.


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Re: Team of the 6 Nations

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 1:04 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Question for opposition fans - do any of the Irish players have that "threat" factor, particularly in the back three? I don't think we do.

A big no for me Rory, Ireland have the least threatening back 3 in the 6N bar Italy. You have a great pack and fantastic halfbacks but you need some better options to get to the next level.


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Re: Team of the 6 Nations

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 1:05 pm

I'm just glad the Scottish posters on here won't react in the same way beshocked did when his precious Itoje didn't receive the recognition he deserved.

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Re: Team of the 6 Nations

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 1:06 pm

The 6ns player of the tournament is purely who do.you think was the best player in whichever year. Winning it does not preclude you from winning it the next.

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Re: Team of the 6 Nations

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 1:06 pm

Can you take this tennis chat to the appropriate board?

How is winning numerous awards excessive? If you're the best option, you win. You only think it's excessive as you don't agree, it doesn't make it not a correct decision.

Is Saracens getting the double last season excessive? Why do they have to win 2 trophies? Why not just one?

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Re: Team of the 6 Nations

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 1:09 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:Question for opposition fans - do any of the Irish players have that "threat" factor, particularly in the back three? I don't think we do.

A big no for me Rory, Ireland have the least threatening back 3 in the 6N bar Italy. You have a great pack and fantastic halfbacks but you need some better options to get to the next level.


I agree. I just wonder if other teams feel the same sort of fear I do when I see a player like Hogg, Seymour, North, Williams, Watson, Daly, Joseph etc. on the team sheet. When our back three players get the ball I rarely get excited - I just wait for the ball to be recycled yet again to set up for the next phase. 

Ringrose certainly has potential at 13 but he doesn't yet have the physicality to escape the clutches of other players, nor the space to do an awful lot anyway. The good news is we do have some talented youngsters in the background.

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Re: Team of the 6 Nations

Post by beshocked on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 1:10 pm

Sgt Pooly sorry are you having difficulty understanding the relevance? Seriously do I have to explain it to you?

That's the problem though, when the best option doesn't win.

Saracens won because they were the best, not thanks to some stupid poll.

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Re: Team of the 6 Nations

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 1:12 pm

beshocked wrote:Sgt Pooly sorry are you having difficulty understanding the relevance? Seriously do I have to explain it to you?

That's the problem though, when the best option doesn't win.

Saracens won because they were the best, not thanks to some stupid poll.

Tennis has no relevance.

Hogg also won because he was the best......twice. Just because the messiah Itoje didn't win, doesn't make Hogg less worthy.

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Re: Team of the 6 Nations

Post by beshocked on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 1:14 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
beshocked wrote:Sgt Pooly sorry are you having difficulty understanding the relevance? Seriously do I have to explain it to you?

That's the problem though, when the best option doesn't win.

Saracens won because they were the best, not thanks to some stupid poll.

Tennis has no relevance.

Hogg also won because he was the best......twice. Just because the messiah Itoje didn't win, doesn't make Hogg less worthy.

So someone winning excessive awards has no relevance? Okay.....

I've not suggested once Itoje deserves to win player of the 6 nations either this year or last year.... Don't understand your point.

Hogg wasn't the best last year, just enough idiots voted for him.

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Re: Team of the 6 Nations

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 1:15 pm

Same as always. If it doesn't fit with beshocked s choice it's the wrong choice! Seriously though these polls are just a bit of fun it's just opinions. Hardly an outrage that a quality player wins something over a quality player.

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Re: Team of the 6 Nations

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 1:17 pm

beshocked wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:
beshocked wrote:Sgt Pooly sorry are you having difficulty understanding the relevance? Seriously do I have to explain it to you?

That's the problem though, when the best option doesn't win.

Saracens won because they were the best, not thanks to some stupid poll.

Tennis has no relevance.

Hogg also won because he was the best......twice. Just because the messiah Itoje didn't win, doesn't make Hogg less worthy.

So someone winning excessive awards has no relevance? Okay.....

I've not suggested once Itoje deserves to win player of the 6 nations either this year or last year.... Don't understand your point.

Hogg wasn't the best last year, just enough idiots voted for him.

Again.......Andy Murray has no relevance in the slightest to a thread about the team of the 6N. If you want to talk about him, make a thread.

So you vote for a player that isn't Itoje and you're an idiot?

You harped on and on about Itoje not winning last year and you still bear a grudge against Hogg. To be fair he was very good and was in with a shot, Hogg was better though imo.

You've not mentioned Itoje this year because he's not played very well.

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Re: Team of the 6 Nations

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 1:18 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Same as always. If it doesn't fit with beshocked s choice it's the wrong choice! Seriously though these polls are just a bit of fun it's just opinions. Hardly an outrage that a quality player wins something over a quality player.

Incorrect mate, you're an idiot if you don't vote for the player BS thinks is the best (in best I mean the best Saracens player) Rolling Eyes

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Re: Team of the 6 Nations

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 1:19 pm

It is a subjective vote. Many fans believed that Hogg was the player of the tournament. That doesn't make them idiots. It is a very reasonable opinion as he is one of the best players in the NH. There were other candidates but they didn't win.

Move on.

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Re: Team of the 6 Nations

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 1:23 pm

Yup. Just adds spice to say I can't believe Gatland didn't pick the 2 time 6ns player of the year!

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Re: Team of the 6 Nations

Post by R!skysports on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 1:26 pm

beshocked wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:
beshocked wrote:Sgt Pooly sorry are you having difficulty understanding the relevance? Seriously do I have to explain it to you?

That's the problem though, when the best option doesn't win.

Saracens won because they were the best, not thanks to some stupid poll.

Tennis has no relevance.

Hogg also won because he was the best......twice. Just because the messiah Itoje didn't win, doesn't make Hogg less worthy.

So someone winning excessive awards has no relevance? Okay.....

I've not suggested once Itoje deserves to win player of the 6 nations either this year or last year.... Don't understand your point.

Hogg wasn't the best last year, just enough idiots voted for him.

That is the word that makes no sense

It would be excessive if they gave out 10 awards for the same thing each year

But winning an award 2 years in a row - because he deserved it - you have some twisted logic

last year was closer and if Billy had won I would have said fair enough

This year, Hogg was exceptional and truly deserves his award

If you think it is cos the Scottish voted for him and would not vote for anyone else - might I remind you - England alone has 11 times the population of Scotland - so your maths makes a little sense at the use of excessive


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Re: Team of the 6 Nations

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 1:40 pm


I could have swore I voted for Kruis last year, oh well I must have made that up. Headscratch
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Re: Team of the 6 Nations

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 1:49 pm

Think there was a lot of talk saying he should have been. Certainly for me he was the best Englishman last year. Goes to show there's a bit of talent around the nh these days.

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Re: Team of the 6 Nations

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 1:50 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Yeah, I don't see how Hogg is overhyped. Maybe by some Scottish fans. He has consistently been a dangerous threat for Scotland and Glasgow, and one of the few players in the NH who scare me when they have the ball.

Question for opposition fans - do any of the Irish players have that "threat" factor, particularly in the back three? I don't think we do.

Jared Payne, tremendous player with an eye for the gap, he doesn't have the pace of Hogg but he does have "threat" factor IMO.
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Re: Team of the 6 Nations

Post by beshocked on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 2:01 pm

Sgt Poorly I never said Itoje should win so stop spouting that rubbish. Do you have difficulty understanding the difference between Billy Vunipola and Maro Itoje? Seems like you do.

You write off my legitimate complaint as just being one eyed bias. I thought Itoje was very lucky to be nominated this year and don't think he deserved it.

Riskysports I can understand Hogg winning the award this year but when you combine him winning it this year with the debacle of last year - well it's excessive. Even this year it's not clear cut. Last year was more much more obvious that it should have been Billy.

It would have been fair enough if Billy won because he was clearly the best player. It's not just oh - he plays for your club - I've talked about others - noticeably 2010 when somehow Tommy Bowe won, not Harinorduquy.


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Re: Team of the 6 Nations

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 2:03 pm

It's not a definitive award.

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Re: Team of the 6 Nations

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 2:09 pm

I love it when you start losing a debate you start calling me Poorly, you're such a mature chap BS.

Both Saracens players, same difference.

You are biases and one eyed, that's not a discussion.

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Re: Team of the 6 Nations

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 2:16 pm

beshocked wrote:Sgt Poorly I never said Itoje should win so stop spouting that rubbish. Do you have difficulty understanding the difference between Billy Vunipola and Maro Itoje? Seems like you do.

You write off my legitimate complaint as just being one eyed bias. I thought Itoje was very lucky to be nominated this year and don't think he deserved it.

Riskysports I can understand Hogg winning the award this year but when you combine him winning it this year with the debacle of last year - well it's excessive. Even this year it's not clear cut. Last year was more much more obvious that it should have been Billy.

It would have been fair enough if Billy won because he was clearly the best player. It's not just oh - he plays for your club - I've talked about others - noticeably 2010 when somehow Tommy Bowe won, not Harinorduquy.

Hogg won it last year on the back of his try against Ireland IMO. It was mesmeric, but Kruis and Billy V played better in 2016.

I don't think too much of a case can be built against Hogg this year. He was the best back by a bit of distance, with Farrell probably being the other standout in the backs. It was a Forwards year and perhaps that is demonstrated in the results by the forwards vote being split?
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Re: Team of the 6 Nations

Post by EWT Spoons on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 2:19 pm

beshocked wrote:
EWT Spoons wrote:
beshocked wrote:
EWT Spoons wrote:
beshocked wrote:
EWT Spoons wrote:
beshocked wrote:
IanBru wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:I don't want to sound too bitter but Launchbury's contribution was more telling than Hogg's and he deserved the award.
That's a perfectly reasonable opinion to hold regarding Launchbury's contribution. Launchbury would definitely have deserved it had he won it, but he received fewer votes than Hogg - 19,000 more people made a judgment based on their reflections on the tournament and felt that Hogg deserved it more. So no, Launchbury didn't deserve it.

Scots seem to vote more. It's why Murray seems to win sports personality of the year so often in recent years.

Hogg just happens to be someone people recognise because he can run fast.

More often than not it's a back who wins the award.

Completely ignore that Russell has basically been feeding Hogg. Hogg's performances wouldn't have been possible without Russell pulling the strings.

Are you serious with this chat?

Nothing to do with his successes?  Gold medals at olympics, winning wimbledon and a host of other tournaments, becoming world number 1....nope none of this matters, it's because he is Scottish.

Way to belittle the achievements of these people based on your assumption that Scottish people vote more.

Murray deserves to be recognised but 3 times in the last 4 years? Come on seriously? Murray has done well but in his sport he's not exceptional.

Same with Hogg sure, give him the award in 2017 but 2 in a row? That's a joke seriously?

I am not saying Hogg and Murray aren't impressive athletes but IMO they've got too much hype and praise.

You're totally right, world number 1 is not exceptional, winning gold medals at the olympics is not exceptional, everyone is totally capable of that.  I mean I achieved that before breakfast today, what's all the fuss about.


In his sport I said. Murray is the best British tennis player of all time but 3 slams is a small amount when compared to his main rivals. Look I don't want to bash Murray. He's done well but come on - 3 SPOTY in 4 years is excessive. There are other sportsmen in Britain.

Similarly there are other rugby players in the 6 nations not just Hogg.

Sorry I didn't realise being carted off injured after 18 minutes counted as a notable appearance but sure, yes technically Hogg did play vs England, just didn't last long.

Apologies you are correct.

You said "in his sport he's not exceptional".  He's won slams, is world number one and won various gold medals at the olympics and more.  I would say that makes him exceptional, or at the very least one of the most successful individual sports people we have in Britain (currently), which is probably why he keeps winning these awards.

I didn't mention Hogg's appearance against England.  I thought he did well enough for the 18mins he was on, I also didn't vote for him as player of the tournament, but don't let that stop you.

Compared to the likes of Federer,Djokovic and Nadal - no Murray is not exceptional. Murray has done well. I am not denying that but you'd think there are no other sportsmen or women in the UK.

Surely even you can understand why I think 3 awards in 4 years is excessive? Murray has done well but in 2016 there were many impressive sporting feats.

Surely you can see why I think Hogg winning two awards in a row is excessive?

Of course you'll interpret this as bashing Scottish sports people? No not at all - I think some recognition is great but not too much.

Billy was clearly the best player in 2016 with 3 MOTM awards but was robbed.

Itoje wasn't as bad as some people are making out - sure he's overhyped but he's had more responsibility but on his shoulders because Hartley's leadership was missing in this year's 6 nations, Launchbury can't call at the lineout for some reason. More pressure was put on Itoje and I don't think it's fair.

Itoje also had to combat someone who knew all about the England gameplan,lineout calls etc - Andy Farrell vs Ireland.

No coach was better placed than Andy Farrell to neutralise England.


No I honestly cannot see why you think Hogg being a very good player two years in a row and being recognised for that is excessive. Other than it doesn't fit with who you wanted to win. For the record I don't think Hogg deserved the award last year, he was good but there were better players, this year though he deserved to be up there and rightly was, but based on your logic because he won it last year he should be discounted?

I think this issue revolves around your Billy V point, this is why you are so bitter about Hogg winning it again. You clearly feel a slight on your player that the public voted for someone else, and therefore concocted this theory that Scotland vote more, as the only reason why Billy didn't win last year and have continued this over to this year.

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Re: Team of the 6 Nations

Post by beshocked on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 2:30 pm

Sgt Poorly you don't call me by my name so why should I call you by yours?

It's you who is fixated with them being Saracens players. I am biased yes but I don't champion a joker like Sean Robinson.

Ruggerradge that's a very fair response. OK I thought Farrell wasn't consistent enough to warrant the award. To be fair Hogg was the most consistent back this year.

This year there wasn't really an outstanding team, England edged the championship but not by much.  There's a much stronger case to give it to Hogg this year.  Also because Scotland were better this year.

My team of the 6 nations would be

1.Marler
2.Owens
3.Furlong
4.Lawes
5.Launchbury
6.Stander
7.Warburton
8.Picamoles

9.Webb
10.Russell
11.Williams
12.Farrell
13.Ringrose
14.North
15.Hogg

1 French, 5 Welsh, 2 Scottish,4 English, 3 Irish.

EWT well there has to be a reason why Hogg somehow won last year - Scottish fans voting more makes more sense, especially when you take into account Murray winning SPOTY 3 times in 4 years.

Of course Hogg deserves some recognition but not every year. Same with Murray.

Well no actually I wouldn't have wanted Hogg to win twice in a row because I don't think he has deserved to. Once would be enough.

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Re: Team of the 6 Nations

Post by R!skysports on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 2:50 pm

beshocked wrote:Sgt Poorly you don't call me by my name so why should I call you by yours?

It's you who is fixated with them being Saracens players. I am biased yes but I don't champion a joker like Sean Robinson.

Ruggerradge that's a very fair response. OK I thought Farrell wasn't consistent enough to warrant the award. To be fair Hogg was the most consistent back this year.

This year there wasn't really an outstanding team, England edged the championship but not by much.  There's a much stronger case to give it to Hogg this year.  Also because Scotland were better this year.

My team of the 6 nations would be

1.Marler
2.Owens
3.Furlong
4.Lawes
5.Launchbury
6.Stander
7.Warburton
8.Picamoles

9.Webb
10.Russell
11.Williams
12.Farrell
13.Ringrose
14.North
15.Hogg

1 French, 5 Welsh, 2 Scottish,4 English, 3 Irish.

EWT well there has to be a reason why Hogg somehow won last year - Scottish fans voting more makes more sense, especially when you take into account Murray winning SPOTY 3 times in 4 years.

Of course Hogg deserves some recognition but not every year. Same with Murray.

Well no actually I wouldn't have wanted Hogg to win twice in a row because I don't think he has deserved to. Once would be enough.

There are other reasons why Hogg won last year

They include

He played well (very)
He had some champagne moments
He had some of the tries of the competition
The video clips of him scoring tries make good television
backs are more sexy :-)

and he played well (very) - just wanted to repeat that :-)

Also

Billy's vote may have been shared with a few other forwards who had good games, including English players - while there were fewer backs to share around

I personally thought it was a two way thing between Hogg and Billy last year - so either winning was likely

This year less so - Hogg was a stand out player





On Murray - he wins more often as Tennis is a far more watched sport that even the gymnastics in the Olympics (and therefore more people vote for it - across the country) and also people voting for the Olympians might have split their votes as there were so many options

The fact you prefer someone else to win - is fine - that is what opinions are all about

But to call people stupid for voting for someone else is not particularly positive





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Re: Team of the 6 Nations

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 3:09 pm

My view of it is simple, Hogg has been the best player over the past years in the six nations but I feel that Billy V and Launchbury have been better over their respective seasons. I doubt either cares about individual accolades and are happy to contribute to a winning team.

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Re: Team of the 6 Nations

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 3:12 pm

R!skysports wrote:
beshocked wrote:Sgt Poorly you don't call me by my name so why should I call you by yours?

It's you who is fixated with them being Saracens players. I am biased yes but I don't champion a joker like Sean Robinson.

Ruggerradge that's a very fair response. OK I thought Farrell wasn't consistent enough to warrant the award. To be fair Hogg was the most consistent back this year.

This year there wasn't really an outstanding team, England edged the championship but not by much.  There's a much stronger case to give it to Hogg this year.  Also because Scotland were better this year.

My team of the 6 nations would be

1.Marler
2.Owens
3.Furlong
4.Lawes
5.Launchbury
6.Stander
7.Warburton
8.Picamoles

9.Webb
10.Russell
11.Williams
12.Farrell
13.Ringrose
14.North
15.Hogg

1 French, 5 Welsh, 2 Scottish,4 English, 3 Irish.

EWT well there has to be a reason why Hogg somehow won last year - Scottish fans voting more makes more sense, especially when you take into account Murray winning SPOTY 3 times in 4 years.

Of course Hogg deserves some recognition but not every year. Same with Murray.

Well no actually I wouldn't have wanted Hogg to win twice in a row because I don't think he has deserved to. Once would be enough.

There are other reasons why Hogg won last year

They include

He played well (very)
He had some champagne moments
He had some of the tries of the competition
The video clips of him scoring tries make good television
backs are more sexy :-)

and he played well (very) - just wanted to repeat that :-)

Also

Billy's vote may have been shared with a few other forwards who had good games, including English players - while there were fewer backs to share around

I personally thought it was a two way thing between Hogg and Billy last year - so either winning was likely

This year less so - Hogg was a stand out player





On Murray - he wins more often as Tennis is a far more watched sport that even the gymnastics in the Olympics (and therefore more people vote for it - across the country) and also people voting for the Olympians might have split their votes as there were so many options

The fact you prefer someone else to win - is fine - that is what opinions are all about

But to call people stupid for voting for someone else is not particularly positive





Murray was a gold medalist at the olympics... but really what does he have to do with this thread?
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Re: Team of the 6 Nations

Post by beshocked on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 3:12 pm

R!skysports wrote:
beshocked wrote:Sgt Poorly you don't call me by my name so why should I call you by yours?

It's you who is fixated with them being Saracens players. I am biased yes but I don't champion a joker like Sean Robinson.

Ruggerradge that's a very fair response. OK I thought Farrell wasn't consistent enough to warrant the award. To be fair Hogg was the most consistent back this year.

This year there wasn't really an outstanding team, England edged the championship but not by much.  There's a much stronger case to give it to Hogg this year.  Also because Scotland were better this year.

My team of the 6 nations would be

1.Marler
2.Owens
3.Furlong
4.Lawes
5.Launchbury
6.Stander
7.Warburton
8.Picamoles

9.Webb
10.Russell
11.Williams
12.Farrell
13.Ringrose
14.North
15.Hogg

1 French, 5 Welsh, 2 Scottish,4 English, 3 Irish.

EWT well there has to be a reason why Hogg somehow won last year - Scottish fans voting more makes more sense, especially when you take into account Murray winning SPOTY 3 times in 4 years.

Of course Hogg deserves some recognition but not every year. Same with Murray.

Well no actually I wouldn't have wanted Hogg to win twice in a row because I don't think he has deserved to. Once would be enough.

There are other reasons why Hogg won last year

They include

He played well (very)
He had some champagne moments
He had some of the tries of the competition
The video clips of him scoring tries make good television
backs are more sexy :-)

and he played well (very) - just wanted to repeat that :-)

Also

Billy's vote may have been shared with a few other forwards who had good games, including English players - while there were fewer backs to share around

I personally thought it was a two way thing between Hogg and Billy last year - so either winning was likely

This year less so - Hogg was a stand out player





On Murray - he wins more often as Tennis is a far more watched sport that even the gymnastics in the Olympics (and therefore more people vote for it - across the country) and also people voting for the Olympians might have split their votes as there were so many options

The fact you prefer someone else to win - is fine - that is what opinions are all about

But to call people stupid for voting for someone else is not particularly positive





Hogg scored only 2 tries and was matched by 2 other Scotsman in the try department. I thought Taylor's try vs France was better, no not just because of the team he plays for. I don't think Hogg stood out from the crowd.

1 MOTM compared to Billy's 3.

Hogg has a higher profile.


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Re: Team of the 6 Nations

Post by funnyExiledScot on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 3:22 pm

Hogg, last year certainly, did benefit a little bit from the Parisse syndrome - i.e. being the standout player in your team is very helpful. Not just for Player of the Tournament voting purposes (as the national vote isn't split), but also simply to stand out performance wise.

For what it's worth I do think Hogg was fortunate last year, and I said so at the time. This year however I do think he's won that award on merit. When he's been on the pitch (i.e. not including his injury against England) he's been outstanding. Not just in scoring tries but creating them as well, and we've seen nothing of defensive lapses or his perceived "attitude problem".

Joe Launchbury put forward a strong case this year, but he had to share the limelight a few times with Joseph, Lawes and Daly.

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Re: Team of the 6 Nations

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 3:24 pm

beshocked wrote:

Hogg has a higher profile.


There is a reason for that. I was at Murrayfield for the Wales game this year and when Hogg takes the ball deep there is an audible sigh and people are on their feet waiting for magic to happen. It is hype and it is verging on hysterical but theres a reason for it. He is the best counter attacking rugby player in the world. He takes those high balls and charges at gaps. His clean break at the end of the 1st half against Wales IMO turned the tide of the match. Before it, Wales were in the acendancy, after Scotland.

He inspires. He also is the only player I can recall to have that audible gasp of expectency since BOD and Jason Robinson before him. It's the expectation that gives him a higher profile and that is based on the magic he creates on the pitch.
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Re: Team of the 6 Nations

Post by beshocked on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 3:29 pm

FES I agree Hogg has done enough this year.

England obviously didn't perform particularly well this season which hasn't helped Launchbury.

This is Scotland's best 6 nations in a long time.

ruggerradge to be honest I think Russell can create just as well as Hogg but he's been a bit more jekyll and hyde. Suffered in periods where the Scottish forwards couldn't given him a platform but thrived when they did.

Hogg also benefitted hugely from Russell. He fed off him.

When Russell played well, Scotland won.


Last edited by beshocked on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 3:31 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Team of the 6 Nations

Post by EWT Spoons on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 3:30 pm

beshocked wrote:

EWT well there has to be a reason why Hogg somehow won last year - Scottish fans voting more makes more sense, especially when you take into account Murray winning SPOTY 3 times in 4 years.

Of course Hogg deserves some recognition but not every year. Same with Murray.

Well no actually I wouldn't have wanted Hogg to win twice in a row because I don't think he has deserved to. Once would be enough.

It of course couldn't be because they are talented sportsmen who deserve their accolades and aren't limited to having just one good year.

We're going in circles here, I cannot fathom where you are coming from other than you being inherently biassed towards someone who doesn't fit your view of who should win. Which is fine in a sense, the majority have spoken and at the end of the day nothing changes, Hogg is still a good player, Itoje is still a good player Billy V is still a good player, just one of them has 2 player of the year awards.

I'm going to leave this now, as it's pointless endlessly repeating this.

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Re: Team of the 6 Nations

Post by funnyExiledScot on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 3:34 pm

beshocked wrote:FES I agree Hogg has done enough this year.

England obviously didn't perform particularly well this season which hasn't helped Launchbury.

This is Scotland's best 6 nations in a long time.

I'm not so sure actually. Launchbury tends to excel in closely fought games with a hard fought battle between the forwards. His big strength is his engine and workrate. He's actually quite similar to Jonny Gray with his relentless consistency in making vast numbers of tackles and missing very few. Closely fought games help his cause. Against Scotland for example he didn't shine so brightly, largely because Scotland made such little impact at the breakdown and England tended to need very few phases to break us apart. That meant Ford, Farrell and Joseph taking most of the credit. Yes, the platform had to be there (and Launchbury was a massive contributor to that), but I'd say that it was the games against Wales and France, in which England spluttered a bit, that Launchbury really stepped up.

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Re: Team of the 6 Nations

Post by beshocked on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 3:38 pm

EWT Spoons wrote:
beshocked wrote:

EWT well there has to be a reason why Hogg somehow won last year - Scottish fans voting more makes more sense, especially when you take into account Murray winning SPOTY 3 times in 4 years.

Of course Hogg deserves some recognition but not every year. Same with Murray.

Well no actually I wouldn't have wanted Hogg to win twice in a row because I don't think he has deserved to. Once would be enough.

It of course couldn't be because they are talented sportsmen who deserve their accolades and aren't limited to having just one good year.

We're going in circles here, I cannot fathom where you are coming from other than you being inherently biassed towards someone who doesn't fit your view of who should win.  Which is fine in a sense, the majority have spoken and at the end of the day nothing changes, Hogg is still a good player, Itoje is still a good player Billy V is still a good player, just one of them has 2 player of the year awards.

I'm going to leave this now, as it's pointless endlessly repeating this.

Well actually it's clearly debatable whether they deserve such recognition - we'll just have to agree to disagree. I think you can hype up a sportsman too much. Yes it can happen to any sports person.

The way I see it - Murray and Hogg both excellent sportsman - just a bit overhyped.

I would have given the 2016 SPOTY to Max Whitlock (that's more debatable), 2016 6 nations tournament to Billy Vunipola (more clear cut).

I think what Max Whitlock achieved was more historical and impressive. Billy's influence - greater. Just didn't get the recognition he deserved.


FES that Scottish game wasn't good for England, it flattered us, made us think England would put in a similarly strong performance vs Ireland.

Some players had their 1 good game of the tournament vs Scotland.

Hoodwinked me too. You should be flattered though that England put in their best performance vs Scotland.

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Re: Team of the 6 Nations

Post by rodders on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 3:47 pm

Who the hell is Max Whitlock?
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Re: Team of the 6 Nations

Post by R!skysports on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 3:49 pm

beshocked wrote:
EWT Spoons wrote:
beshocked wrote:

EWT well there has to be a reason why Hogg somehow won last year - Scottish fans voting more makes more sense, especially when you take into account Murray winning SPOTY 3 times in 4 years.

Of course Hogg deserves some recognition but not every year. Same with Murray.

Well no actually I wouldn't have wanted Hogg to win twice in a row because I don't think he has deserved to. Once would be enough.

It of course couldn't be because they are talented sportsmen who deserve their accolades and aren't limited to having just one good year.

We're going in circles here, I cannot fathom where you are coming from other than you being inherently biassed towards someone who doesn't fit your view of who should win.  Which is fine in a sense, the majority have spoken and at the end of the day nothing changes, Hogg is still a good player, Itoje is still a good player Billy V is still a good player, just one of them has 2 player of the year awards.

I'm going to leave this now, as it's pointless endlessly repeating this.

Well actually it's clearly debatable whether they deserve such recognition - we'll just have to agree to disagree. I think you can hype up a sportsman too much. Yes it can happen to any sports person.

The way I see it - Murray and Hogg both excellent sportsman - just a bit overhyped.

I would have given the 2016 SPOTY to Max Whitlock (that's more debatable), 2016 6 nations tournament to Billy Vunipola (more clear cut).

I think what Max Whitlock achieved was more historical and impressive. Billy's influence - greater. Just didn't get the recognition he deserved.


FES that Scottish game wasn't good for England, it flattered us, made us think England would put in a similarly strong performance vs Ireland.

Some players had their 1 good game of the tournament vs Scotland.

Hoodwinked me too. You should be flattered though that England put in their best performance vs Scotland.

Please don't do that next year :-)

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Re: Team of the 6 Nations

Post by funnyExiledScot on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 3:49 pm

beshocked wrote:FES that Scottish game wasn't good for England, it flattered us, made us think England would put in a similarly strong performance vs Ireland.

Some players had their 1 good game of the tournament vs Scotland.

Hoodwinked me too. You should be flattered though that England put in their best performance vs Scotland.

Yeah, team always step up and save their best for us..... Wink

I think the real issue between the two games for England is that whereas Scotland picked a lightweight pack (that performed poorly), Ireland were never going to be as straightforward when it came to generating momentum. Ireland are very savvy at the breakdown and with Henderson and Stander always had a bit more to offer in terms of carrying the game to England. Barclay had his worst game of the tournament against England, whereas POM was absolutely outstanding. Without being able to string together the phases and get good front foot ball, England had a bad day at the office.

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Re: Team of the 6 Nations

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 3:51 pm

And what does he have to do with rugby and this thread?

It's very nice of you to share your opinions on random topics but I doubt anybody really cares BS.

Ringrose is a random choice at 13, can't say I agree.

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Re: Team of the 6 Nations

Post by IanBru on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 3:53 pm

beshocked wrote:Hoodwinked me too. You should be flattered though that England put in their best performance vs Scotland.
Yeah mate, when I watched from the lower South stand as Danny Care dived, seemingly towards me, for the final English try, the preeminent emotion in my mind was definitely 'God I feel flattered'! Wink
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Re: Team of the 6 Nations

Post by beshocked on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 4:03 pm

Sgt Poorly 13 IMO was not a position of strength. Better than 1 game wonder Joseph in my opinion but perhaps you are right that someone other than those two would warrant the spot.

Ianbru should see it as a small consolation. England gave Scotland respect...... Whistle

FES very true. I am no fan of Andy Farrell but because of his inside knowledge, Ireland used that knowledge to brutal effect. Stopping Billy at source, targeting the English lineout. Disrupting England.

rodders Max Whitlock - two gold medals and 1 bronze in gymnastics at Rio, 1st medal for GB in Gymnastics for 108 years. Then he just added to his tally.

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Re: Team of the 6 Nations

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 24 Mar 2017, 4:29 pm

Like a modern day sports day we should make sure everyone gets a medal.

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Re: Team of the 6 Nations

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