Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

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Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 10:02 am

First topic message reminder :

Results

Scotland 27 - Ireland 22 Yahoo
France 22 - Scotland 16  Crying or Very sad
Scotland 29 - Wales 13  Yahoo
England 61 - Scotland 21  Shocked
Scotland 29 - Italy 0  Yahoo

Some stats:

- First time with 3 wins since 2006
- First opening round win and win over Wales in over a decade
- 14 tries scored - our best ever
- Our highest points tally (in 2014 we scored 45 points  Shocked )
- Up to 5th in the World Rankings


Verdict

Bar Twickenham this was a fantastic 6N where we won our games playing great rugby.  It was a huge monkey off our back to beat Wales and the Ireland game was a huge result for us.  The Twickenham game was a complete embarrassment but I'd like to think that was a freak result for this team as opposed to a sign that our wins over Wales and Ireland were 'lucky'.  It should keep the players grounded going forward, which is no bad thing.

All in all I'll give our 6N a 8/10

Lions hopefuls?

Pr - can't see any travelling
H Fraser Brown stands an outside chance, and could be injury cover
L - Jonny or Richie Gray stand a chance in the most competitive position
BR - I don't see any of our backrows going
SH - Laidlaw is down the list in terms of ability at 9 but may be picked as a good tourist/leader for the squad
FH - Finn Russell certainly divides opinion but personally I don't think he will travel
C - Dunbar and Jones are outside bets in what isn't actually a great position of depth for the Lions, but again may find themselves as injury cover
FR - Hogg is a near certainty and I can see another winger getting picked, probably Seymour

My prediction:

J Gray, Hogg, Seymour in the squad, Brown, Laidlaw and Jones as first choice injury cover.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by Hazel Sapling on Thu 06 Apr 2017, 11:29 pm

Jones is certainly worthy of a call-up and outplayed Seymour against Sarries. His defensive work is what he lacked at his first go and he provided 2 of the biggest 3 hits on Sarries players. He has sorted out his defense and he has looked for work better when the ball is not being spread wide.

Hoyland has to be careful not to go the way of Fife. He is probably behind Hughes as 6th choice at this point if Bassett/McNicholl decide to try elsewhere and Jones/Taylor are not shifted wide.

Brown dropped one of the simplest try run-ins against Ulster that killed all hope of an Edinburgh come back. He should not be capped.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by RDW_Scotland on Fri 07 Apr 2017, 9:21 am

Hazel Sapling wrote:Jones is certainly worthy of a call-up and outplayed Seymour against Sarries. His defensive work is what he lacked at his first go and he provided 2 of the biggest 3 hits on Sarries players. He has sorted out his defense and he has looked for work better when the ball is not being spread wide.

Hoyland has to be careful not to go the way of Fife. He is probably behind Hughes as 6th choice at this point if Bassett/McNicholl decide to try elsewhere and Jones/Taylor are not shifted wide.

Brown dropped one of the simplest try run-ins against Ulster that killed all hope of an Edinburgh come back. He should not be capped.

To be fair he'd taken a big head knock in the build up to it and had to go off straight after! He probably saw 3 balls flying towards him (snigger)

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by IanBru on Fri 07 Apr 2017, 9:48 am

So it's official, Scotland will play Italy at the 55,000 seat Singapore National Stadium.

Just a quick glance at the Wikipedia page makes this place look irredeemably awesome:

The stadium has configurable spectator tiers depending on the event that will be hosted, namely "Football/Rugby mode", "Cricket mode" and "Athletics mode". To reconfigure from the athletics mode to the football/rugby mode, the lowest spectator tier can be moved 12.5 meters forward, obscuring the athletics running track underneath the seats and thus bringing spectators close to the pitch to provide optimum spectator viewing distances.
An energy efficient cooling system is also designed to deliver cooled air to every seat in the stadium while using less than 15 per cent of energy as compared to a conventional air-conditioned stadium, providing every spectator a cool and comfortable time to enjoy an event.
The National Stadium currently holds the record of the largest dome structure in the world. The retractable roof itself will take an approximate 25 minutes to open or close. The roof is made out of a lightweight material called ETFE, which is weather-resistant and blocks the sun's heat giving shade and protecting spectators from the hot and humid Singapore weather during the day and potential torrential rain at any point of time. At night, the retractable roof doubles as a giant projector screen on both sides, which can display images such as the Singapore Flag during the National Day Parade

So basically, this place looks fantastic. That being said, if you drop an empty can of Cally Best, expect to be hung up by your short and curlies.
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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by funnyExiledScot on Fri 07 Apr 2017, 9:52 am

IanBru wrote:So it's official, Scotland will play Italy at the 55,000 seat Singapore National Stadium.

Just a quick glance at the Wikipedia page makes this place look irredeemably awesome:

The stadium has configurable spectator tiers depending on the event that will be hosted, namely "Football/Rugby mode", "Cricket mode" and "Athletics mode". To reconfigure from the athletics mode to the football/rugby mode, the lowest spectator tier can be moved 12.5 meters forward, obscuring the athletics running track underneath the seats and thus bringing spectators close to the pitch to provide optimum spectator viewing distances.
An energy efficient cooling system is also designed to deliver cooled air to every seat in the stadium while using less than 15 per cent of energy as compared to a conventional air-conditioned stadium, providing every spectator a cool and comfortable time to enjoy an event.
The National Stadium currently holds the record of the largest dome structure in the world. The retractable roof itself will take an approximate 25 minutes to open or close. The roof is made out of a lightweight material called ETFE, which is weather-resistant and blocks the sun's heat giving shade and protecting spectators from the hot and humid Singapore weather during the day and potential torrential rain at any point of time. At night, the retractable roof doubles as a giant projector screen on both sides, which can display images such as the Singapore Flag during the National Day Parade

So basically, this place looks fantastic. That being said, if you drop an empty can of Cally Best, expect to be hung up by your short and curlies.

Pretty confident Myreside can do all of that. We have revolutionary cooling technology designed to replicate wind and rain.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by IanBru on Fri 07 Apr 2017, 10:26 am

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 2:53 pm

so our summer tour...

Is anyone quaking over the fact that if Russel gets called up from the start or even as injury cover on Gatlands suicidal Lions Tour we'll have Weir starting for Scotland?
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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by jimbopip on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 4:16 pm

No. Because it'll be Furra Linee. Assuming Gats doesn't take him. Mind you Furra inee is number 372 on the short list of 10's gats would take before he considddded calling in the Finnocent One.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by BigGee on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 4:27 pm

We would need a second FH for the tour as cover, if FR goes with the Lions or gets called up. As all the suggestions are that Ford is not going, then that may be more likely than we imagine. Weir looks totally shot at the moment, you wonder if he will ever re-discover his Mojo. He needs a summer off and a bit of time to think about his game, next season will be make or break for him, carry on playing like he is at the moment and he may well be looking for a new career at the end of his current contract.

As far as the back up goes, it is either Jacko, who will certainly do a job, or go for the future and take Adam Hastings along for the ride.

Do I think Hastings is ready for international rugby, no! We are ridiculoudly short of FHs though and an injury or two away from calamity. We need to start getting some other players up to speed. At least Hastings has had a good grounding and has the tools to work with. On balance, I would likely go with him.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by EST on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 4:34 pm

BigGee wrote:We would need a second FH for the tour as cover, if FR goes with the Lions or gets called up. As all the suggestions are that Ford is not going, then that may be more likely than we imagine. Weir looks totally shot at the moment, you wonder if he will ever re-discover his Mojo. He needs a summer off and a bit of time to think about his game, next season will be make or break for him, carry on playing like he is at the moment and he may well be looking for a new career at the end of his current contract.

As far as the back up goes, it is either Jacko, who will certainly do a job, or go for the future and take Adam Hastings along for the ride.

Do I think Hastings is ready for international rugby, no! We are ridiculoudly short of FHs though and an injury or two away from calamity. We need to start getting some other players up to speed. At least Hastings has had a good grounding and has the tools to work with. On balance, I would likely go with him.

I'm not really sure Weir ever had a mojo to lose.  He used to have a semi-decent kicking game, which has completely evaporated over recent seasons, but that's about it.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by funnyExiledScot on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 12:41 pm

So....looks like we'll have a strong squad for the summer.....

Maitland will go to 15 I assume, with Visser and Hoyland on the wings. The rest as you were!

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 12:42 pm

Yeah pretty happy that Russel will be going with Scotland, the thought of Weir starting at 10 is horrifying.

We'll have a damn good team for our tour and stand a very good chance of beating Australia
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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 1:04 pm

Well that was an absolutely shattering dissapointment.

Why is Scottish rugby looked upon so poorly even when we are playing well. That pleb Gatland was sat in the stands when we played our 2 best games. When the Gray Brothers comprehensively outplayed AWJ, when Warburton and Tipuric were schooled by Watson. When North was manshamed by Visser!!! TIM VISSER!!!! When Biggar got utterly shown up against Russel?

Why are we viewed as being rubbish when our recent record clearly shows we are good and better than Wales!?
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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by highland_scot on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 1:51 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Well that was an absolutely shattering dissapointment.

Why is Scottish rugby looked upon so poorly even when we are playing well. That pleb Gatland was sat in the stands when we played our 2 best games. When the Gray Brothers comprehensively outplayed AWJ, when Warburton and Tipuric were schooled by Watson. When North was manshamed by Visser!!! TIM VISSER!!!! When Biggar got utterly shown up against Russel?

Why are we viewed as being rubbish when our recent record clearly shows we are good and better than Wales!?

Ah - but the Lions will need a way to come away from NZ with a moral victory, which those guys specialise in.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by funnyExiledScot on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 2:04 pm

I think it's worth reading RDW's OP, which pretty much predicts what has happened with Lions selection.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by RDW_Scotland on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 2:09 pm

Just call me Mystic Meg.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by funnyExiledScot on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 2:14 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Just call me Mystic Meg.

Do you really want me to do that??

I think I'll just call you Warren Gatland instead.....

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 2:20 pm

In all seriousness though am I barking mad in thinking we are better than 2 representatives? Less than in 2013?
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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by RDW_Scotland on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 2:20 pm

We are better than 2 replacements - even Austin Healy agrees on Twitter!

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by funnyExiledScot on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 2:26 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:In all seriousness though am I barking mad in thinking we are better than 2 representatives? Less than in 2013?

We had 4 reps in 2013 (Grant, Gray, Maitland and Hogg) but no real prospects for the Test XV from that group (Gray was the closest, although injuries should have seen Grant capped).

This time around we have only 2 reps but both have a reasonable shot at the Test XV.

That's me trying to find a silver lining......

I do honestly think a fit Nel and Jones would have gone. I also think a different group of selectors might have chosen one of the Grays and Watson, although as already noted I don't think their omissions are a screaming injustice.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by Griff on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 2:33 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Well that was an absolutely shattering dissapointment.

Why is Scottish rugby looked upon so poorly even when we are playing well. That pleb Gatland was sat in the stands when we played our 2 best games. When the Gray Brothers comprehensively outplayed AWJ, when Warburton and Tipuric were schooled by Watson. When North was manshamed by Visser!!! TIM VISSER!!!! When Biggar got utterly shown up against Russel?

Why are we viewed as being rubbish when our recent record clearly shows we are good and better than Wales!?

And here you are once again with the Wales barbs. You're basing everything on 1 game?! But ignoring the 1 game where your team were very poor. Seems like cherry picking to me. Why?! Sort of negates your debate a bit.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 2:39 pm

Griff wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Well that was an absolutely shattering dissapointment.

Why is Scottish rugby looked upon so poorly even when we are playing well. That pleb Gatland was sat in the stands when we played our 2 best games. When the Gray Brothers comprehensively outplayed AWJ, when Warburton and Tipuric were schooled by Watson. When North was manshamed by Visser!!! TIM VISSER!!!! When Biggar got utterly shown up against Russel?

Why are we viewed as being rubbish when our recent record clearly shows we are good and better than Wales!?

And here you are once again with the Wales barbs. You're basing everything on 1 game?! But ignoring the 1 game where your team were very poor. Seems like cherry picking to me. Why?! Sort of negates your debate a bit.

Are you stalking me?

Once again please tell me I'm wrong and everything I have said is a lie, am I making things up? Or did Wales get battered by Scotland in the 6N?

I could use the Scotland vs. Ireland game as an example but I won't since I feel the amount of Irish lions tourists is about right, its the disproportionate amount of Welsh players picked that I have a problem with!

Wales are 8th in the world, Scotland are 5th. Wales finshed 5th in the 6N, 4 points adrift of Ireland, France and Scotland who finished on the same number of points.

However Wales make up 30% of a Lions Squad and Scotland make up 4%. It's wrong!
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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by Majestic83 on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 2:44 pm

When is the Scotland team announced for the summer tour?

Should be a very strong team that can be selected for it. I probably wouldn't look to rest any players and aim for 3 out 3 wins.

10 is an area we need to find more depth, I think Horne might go as Russell's back up. Too soon for Hastings Jr to go. Centre there is good depth, think Grigg will go so good chance to see him against possibly Italy.

Back three for me is an area that we are lacking quality depth. Expect Maitland at 15 and Visser at 11 but no real stand out to take the other wing spot. Hughes and Hoyland will be front runners but Josh Bassett from Wasps could well be in with a chance. The other player who has been performing well is Byron McGuigan at Sale.
Cover at Full Back is still an issue, Kinghorn is potentially very good for the future but I'd be concerned putting him into the 15 shirt just now. Murchie offers very little and isn't one for the future.
Looking long term a player with similar skills and style of play that i'd be looking at to move to full back would be Robbie Fergusson. Played 15 before for Glasgow Warriors a few seasons back and looked very good there. Got good experience playing at London Scottish where he has been a key player and captain. Worth a punt at either of Edinburgh or Glasgow.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 2:54 pm

We should have a very strong squad for this tour:

Dickinson, Reid
Brown, McKinally
Nel, Fagerson
Gray, Gilchrist
Gray, Toolis
Barclay, Wilson
Watson, Hardie
Strauss, Bradbury

Laidlaw, Price, Pyrgos
Russell, Hastings,
Dunbar, Scott
Taylor, Horne
Visser, Maitland, Hoyland, Jones
Murchie, Kinghorn

A good blend of experience and some new guys to bring on tour to see how they perform. Looking forward to it already!
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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by Griff on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 2:56 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
Griff wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Well that was an absolutely shattering dissapointment.

Why is Scottish rugby looked upon so poorly even when we are playing well. That pleb Gatland was sat in the stands when we played our 2 best games. When the Gray Brothers comprehensively outplayed AWJ, when Warburton and Tipuric were schooled by Watson. When North was manshamed by Visser!!! TIM VISSER!!!! When Biggar got utterly shown up against Russel?

Why are we viewed as being rubbish when our recent record clearly shows we are good and better than Wales!?

And here you are once again with the Wales barbs. You're basing everything on 1 game?! But ignoring the 1 game where your team were very poor. Seems like cherry picking to me. Why?! Sort of negates your debate a bit.

Are you stalking me?

Once again please tell me I'm wrong and everything I have said is a lie, am I making things up? Or did Wales get battered by Scotland in the 6N?

I could use the Scotland vs. Ireland game as an example but I won't since I feel the amount of Irish lions tourists is about right, its the disproportionate amount of Welsh players picked that I have a problem with!

Wales are 8th in the world, Scotland are 5th. Wales finshed 5th in the 6N, 4 points adrift of Ireland, France and Scotland who finished on the same number of points.

However Wales make up 30% of a Lions Squad and Scotland make up 4%. It's wrong!

Stalking you?

My gripe is the way you've picked out one game in which to rubbish the Wales players yet fail to do the same for Ireland in the game you comprehensively beat them in; and then you completely ignore the game where your own team was comprehensively dismantled and manshamed. That's not a consistent or logical way to build your argument.

You say certain Wales players got manshamed. Ireland players got manshamed by Scotland too. Zero mention. Scotland players got manshamed by England. Doesn't even enter your debate.

I've already said elsewhere that I think Scotland are very hard done by in a number of calls, but why are you ONLY going head to head with Scots v Wales? That smells like an issue with Wales solely.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 3:01 pm

Griff wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
Griff wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Well that was an absolutely shattering dissapointment.

Why is Scottish rugby looked upon so poorly even when we are playing well. That pleb Gatland was sat in the stands when we played our 2 best games. When the Gray Brothers comprehensively outplayed AWJ, when Warburton and Tipuric were schooled by Watson. When North was manshamed by Visser!!! TIM VISSER!!!! When Biggar got utterly shown up against Russel?

Why are we viewed as being rubbish when our recent record clearly shows we are good and better than Wales!?

And here you are once again with the Wales barbs. You're basing everything on 1 game?! But ignoring the 1 game where your team were very poor. Seems like cherry picking to me. Why?! Sort of negates your debate a bit.

Are you stalking me?

Once again please tell me I'm wrong and everything I have said is a lie, am I making things up? Or did Wales get battered by Scotland in the 6N?

I could use the Scotland vs. Ireland game as an example but I won't since I feel the amount of Irish lions tourists is about right, its the disproportionate amount of Welsh players picked that I have a problem with!

Wales are 8th in the world, Scotland are 5th. Wales finshed 5th in the 6N, 4 points adrift of Ireland, France and Scotland who finished on the same number of points.

However Wales make up 30% of a Lions Squad and Scotland make up 4%. It's wrong!

Stalking you?

My gripe is the way you've picked out one game in which to rubbish the Wales players yet fail to do the same for Ireland in the game you comprehensively beat them in; and then you completely ignore the game where your own team was comprehensively dismantled and manshamed. That's not a consistent or logical way to build your argument.

You say certain Wales players got manshamed. Ireland players got manshamed by Scotland too. Zero mention. Scotland players got manshamed by England. Doesn't even enter your debate.

I've already said elsewhere that I think Scotland are very hard done by in a number of calls, but why are you ONLY going head to head with Scots v Wales? That smells like an issue with Wales solely.

Correct I do have a problem with Wales solely, and I'm fed up of explaining it. Wales in this Lions tour have too many tourists, 12 in number. They have not played well enough to warrant such a high number. Wheras Scotland have played well enough in various areas of the game to warrant more than 2 tourists.

England should have the most, 11 Irish looks about right, 12 Welsh is absurd and 2 Scots is insulting.


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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by Ineffable on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 3:04 pm

Griff wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
Griff wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Well that was an absolutely shattering dissapointment.

Why is Scottish rugby looked upon so poorly even when we are playing well. That pleb Gatland was sat in the stands when we played our 2 best games. When the Gray Brothers comprehensively outplayed AWJ, when Warburton and Tipuric were schooled by Watson. When North was manshamed by Visser!!! TIM VISSER!!!! When Biggar got utterly shown up against Russel?

Why are we viewed as being rubbish when our recent record clearly shows we are good and better than Wales!?

And here you are once again with the Wales barbs. You're basing everything on 1 game?! But ignoring the 1 game where your team were very poor. Seems like cherry picking to me. Why?! Sort of negates your debate a bit.

Are you stalking me?

Once again please tell me I'm wrong and everything I have said is a lie, am I making things up? Or did Wales get battered by Scotland in the 6N?

I could use the Scotland vs. Ireland game as an example but I won't since I feel the amount of Irish lions tourists is about right, its the disproportionate amount of Welsh players picked that I have a problem with!

Wales are 8th in the world, Scotland are 5th. Wales finshed 5th in the 6N, 4 points adrift of Ireland, France and Scotland who finished on the same number of points.

However Wales make up 30% of a Lions Squad and Scotland make up 4%. It's wrong!

Stalking you?

My gripe is the way you've picked out one game in which to rubbish the Wales players yet fail to do the same for Ireland in the game you comprehensively beat them in; and then you completely ignore the game where your own team was comprehensively dismantled and manshamed. That's not a consistent or logical way to build your argument.

You say certain Wales players got manshamed. Ireland players got manshamed by Scotland too. Zero mention. Scotland players got manshamed by England. Doesn't even enter your debate.

I've already said elsewhere that I think Scotland are very hard done by in a number of calls, but why are you ONLY going head to head with Scots v Wales? That smells like an issue with Wales solely.

In fairness mate if you read the post you just quoted, he answered all of your questions. But I'll spell it out for you:

- The coach of the Lions is the Welsh coach, and has picked too many WELSH players
- Scotland are 5th in the world, Wales are 8th. Wales finished on less points than Scotland in the 6N
- I'll throw in another one, Wales tries scored were 8 over the tournament, Scotland 14.


Last edited by Ineffable on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 3:05 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by Ineffable on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 3:05 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
Griff wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
Griff wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Well that was an absolutely shattering dissapointment.

Why is Scottish rugby looked upon so poorly even when we are playing well. That pleb Gatland was sat in the stands when we played our 2 best games. When the Gray Brothers comprehensively outplayed AWJ, when Warburton and Tipuric were schooled by Watson. When North was manshamed by Visser!!! TIM VISSER!!!! When Biggar got utterly shown up against Russel?

Why are we viewed as being rubbish when our recent record clearly shows we are good and better than Wales!?

And here you are once again with the Wales barbs. You're basing everything on 1 game?! But ignoring the 1 game where your team were very poor. Seems like cherry picking to me. Why?! Sort of negates your debate a bit.

Are you stalking me?

Once again please tell me I'm wrong and everything I have said is a lie, am I making things up? Or did Wales get battered by Scotland in the 6N?

I could use the Scotland vs. Ireland game as an example but I won't since I feel the amount of Irish lions tourists is about right, its the disproportionate amount of Welsh players picked that I have a problem with!

Wales are 8th in the world, Scotland are 5th. Wales finshed 5th in the 6N, 4 points adrift of Ireland, France and Scotland who finished on the same number of points.

However Wales make up 30% of a Lions Squad and Scotland make up 4%. It's wrong!

Stalking you?

My gripe is the way you've picked out one game in which to rubbish the Wales players yet fail to do the same for Ireland in the game you comprehensively beat them in; and then you completely ignore the game where your own team was comprehensively dismantled and manshamed. That's not a consistent or logical way to build your argument.

You say certain Wales players got manshamed. Ireland players got manshamed by Scotland too. Zero mention. Scotland players got manshamed by England. Doesn't even enter your debate.

I've already said elsewhere that I think Scotland are very hard done by in a number of calls, but why are you ONLY going head to head with Scots v Wales? That smells like an issue with Wales solely.

Correct I do have a problem with Wales solely, and I'm fed up of explaining it. Wales in this Lions tour have too many tourists, 12 in number. They have not played well enough to warrant such a high number. Wheras Scotland have played well enough in various areas of the game to warrant more than 2 tourists.

England should have the most, 11 Irish looks about right, 12 Welsh is absurd and 2 Scots is insulting.



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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by Griff on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 3:11 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
Griff wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
Griff wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Well that was an absolutely shattering dissapointment.

Why is Scottish rugby looked upon so poorly even when we are playing well. That pleb Gatland was sat in the stands when we played our 2 best games. When the Gray Brothers comprehensively outplayed AWJ, when Warburton and Tipuric were schooled by Watson. When North was manshamed by Visser!!! TIM VISSER!!!! When Biggar got utterly shown up against Russel?

Why are we viewed as being rubbish when our recent record clearly shows we are good and better than Wales!?

And here you are once again with the Wales barbs. You're basing everything on 1 game?! But ignoring the 1 game where your team were very poor. Seems like cherry picking to me. Why?! Sort of negates your debate a bit.

Are you stalking me?

Once again please tell me I'm wrong and everything I have said is a lie, am I making things up? Or did Wales get battered by Scotland in the 6N?

I could use the Scotland vs. Ireland game as an example but I won't since I feel the amount of Irish lions tourists is about right, its the disproportionate amount of Welsh players picked that I have a problem with!

Wales are 8th in the world, Scotland are 5th. Wales finshed 5th in the 6N, 4 points adrift of Ireland, France and Scotland who finished on the same number of points.

However Wales make up 30% of a Lions Squad and Scotland make up 4%. It's wrong!

Stalking you?

My gripe is the way you've picked out one game in which to rubbish the Wales players yet fail to do the same for Ireland in the game you comprehensively beat them in; and then you completely ignore the game where your own team was comprehensively dismantled and manshamed. That's not a consistent or logical way to build your argument.

You say certain Wales players got manshamed. Ireland players got manshamed by Scotland too. Zero mention. Scotland players got manshamed by England. Doesn't even enter your debate.

I've already said elsewhere that I think Scotland are very hard done by in a number of calls, but why are you ONLY going head to head with Scots v Wales? That smells like an issue with Wales solely.

Correct I do have a problem with Wales solely, and I'm fed up of explaining it. Wales in this Lions tour have too many tourists, 12 in number. They have not played well enough to warrant such a high number. Wheras Scotland have played well enough in various areas of the game to warrant more than 2 tourists.

England should have the most, 11 Irish looks about right, 12 Welsh is absurd and 2 Scots is insulting.




Honesty at last. Thanks, Radge. I appreciate the honesty and that sets out your position much more clearly going forward, in future conversations we have, etc.

I'll leave you to your thread.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by funnyExiledScot on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 3:47 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:We should have a very strong squad for this tour:

Dickinson, Reid
Brown, McKinally
Nel, Fagerson
Gray, Gilchrist
Gray, Toolis
Barclay, Wilson
Watson, Hardie
Strauss, Bradbury

Laidlaw, Price, Pyrgos
Russell, Hastings,
Dunbar, Scott
Taylor, Horne
Visser, Maitland, Hoyland, Jones
Murchie, Kinghorn

A good blend of experience and some new guys to bring on tour to see how they perform. Looking forward to it already!

Very good group for this tour. Decent 23 available as follows:

1.Dickinson 2.Brown 3.Nel 4.J Gray 5.R Gray 6.Barclay 7.Watson 8.Strauss 9.Price 10.Russell 11.Visser 12.Dunbar 13.Jones 14.Hoyland 15.Maitland

16.Dell 17.Ford 18.Fagerson 19.Gilchrist 20.Wilson 21.Laidlaw 22.Horne 23.Taylor

Pretty handy. Would be fun playing Wales over the summer, without their Lions contingent.....

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 3:49 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:We should have a very strong squad for this tour:

Dickinson, Reid
Brown, McKinally
Nel, Fagerson
Gray, Gilchrist
Gray, Toolis
Barclay, Wilson
Watson, Hardie
Strauss, Bradbury

Laidlaw, Price, Pyrgos
Russell, Hastings,
Dunbar, Scott
Taylor, Horne
Visser, Maitland, Hoyland, Jones
Murchie, Kinghorn

A good blend of experience and some new guys to bring on tour to see how they perform. Looking forward to it already!

Very good group for this tour. Decent 23 available as follows:

1.Dickinson 2.Brown 3.Nel 4.J Gray 5.R Gray 6.Barclay 7.Watson 8.Strauss 9.Price 10.Russell 11.Visser 12.Dunbar 13.Jones 14.Hoyland 15.Maitland

16.Dell 17.Ford 18.Fagerson 19.Gilchrist 20.Wilson 21.Laidlaw 22.Horne 23.Taylor

Pretty handy. Would be fun playing Wales over the summer, without their Lions contingent.....

I'd rather not, we'd almost certainly get hammered.
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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by The Great Aukster on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 3:53 pm

I'd be happy if Ireland had just two selections.
Townsend now has a full deck to start working his magic and Glasgow and Edinburgh can look forward to normal seasons while everyone else will be battered and broken - even the mighty Saracens could find Europe a stretch too far.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by funnyExiledScot on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 3:55 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:We should have a very strong squad for this tour:

Dickinson, Reid
Brown, McKinally
Nel, Fagerson
Gray, Gilchrist
Gray, Toolis
Barclay, Wilson
Watson, Hardie
Strauss, Bradbury

Laidlaw, Price, Pyrgos
Russell, Hastings,
Dunbar, Scott
Taylor, Horne
Visser, Maitland, Hoyland, Jones
Murchie, Kinghorn

A good blend of experience and some new guys to bring on tour to see how they perform. Looking forward to it already!

Very good group for this tour. Decent 23 available as follows:

1.Dickinson 2.Brown 3.Nel 4.J Gray 5.R Gray 6.Barclay 7.Watson 8.Strauss 9.Price 10.Russell 11.Visser 12.Dunbar 13.Jones 14.Hoyland 15.Maitland

16.Dell 17.Ford 18.Fagerson 19.Gilchrist 20.Wilson 21.Laidlaw 22.Horne 23.Taylor

Pretty handy. Would be fun playing Wales over the summer, without their Lions contingent.....

I'd rather not, we'd almost certainly get hammered.

You're probably right. It's worth remembering that Welsh players are inherently better. Remarkably some of the best Welsh players in the 6 Nations, such as Francis, Evans and Ball, haven't made it.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 4:03 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:We should have a very strong squad for this tour:

Dickinson, Reid
Brown, McKinally
Nel, Fagerson
Gray, Gilchrist
Gray, Toolis
Barclay, Wilson
Watson, Hardie
Strauss, Bradbury

Laidlaw, Price, Pyrgos
Russell, Hastings,
Dunbar, Scott
Taylor, Horne
Visser, Maitland, Hoyland, Jones
Murchie, Kinghorn

A good blend of experience and some new guys to bring on tour to see how they perform. Looking forward to it already!

Very good group for this tour. Decent 23 available as follows:

1.Dickinson 2.Brown 3.Nel 4.J Gray 5.R Gray 6.Barclay 7.Watson 8.Strauss 9.Price 10.Russell 11.Visser 12.Dunbar 13.Jones 14.Hoyland 15.Maitland

16.Dell 17.Ford 18.Fagerson 19.Gilchrist 20.Wilson 21.Laidlaw 22.Horne 23.Taylor

Pretty handy. Would be fun playing Wales over the summer, without their Lions contingent.....

I'd rather not, we'd almost certainly get hammered.

You're probably right. It's worth remembering that Welsh players are inherently better. Remarkably some of the best Welsh players in the 6 Nations, such as Francis, Evans and Ball, haven't made it.

You mean Gatland picked players who weren't Welsh instead of Francis, Evans and Ball? He's the right man for the job clearly since hasn't let his personal attachments for Wales get in the way! In Gats we Trust! Wales
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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by funnyExiledScot on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 4:07 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:We should have a very strong squad for this tour:

Dickinson, Reid
Brown, McKinally
Nel, Fagerson
Gray, Gilchrist
Gray, Toolis
Barclay, Wilson
Watson, Hardie
Strauss, Bradbury

Laidlaw, Price, Pyrgos
Russell, Hastings,
Dunbar, Scott
Taylor, Horne
Visser, Maitland, Hoyland, Jones
Murchie, Kinghorn

A good blend of experience and some new guys to bring on tour to see how they perform. Looking forward to it already!

Very good group for this tour. Decent 23 available as follows:

1.Dickinson 2.Brown 3.Nel 4.J Gray 5.R Gray 6.Barclay 7.Watson 8.Strauss 9.Price 10.Russell 11.Visser 12.Dunbar 13.Jones 14.Hoyland 15.Maitland

16.Dell 17.Ford 18.Fagerson 19.Gilchrist 20.Wilson 21.Laidlaw 22.Horne 23.Taylor

Pretty handy. Would be fun playing Wales over the summer, without their Lions contingent.....

I'd rather not, we'd almost certainly get hammered.

You're probably right. It's worth remembering that Welsh players are inherently better. Remarkably some of the best Welsh players in the 6 Nations, such as Francis, Evans and Ball, haven't made it.

You mean Gatland picked players who weren't Welsh instead of Francis, Evans and Ball? He's the right man for the job clearly since hasn't let his personal attachments for Wales get in the way! In Gats we Trust! Wales

That is indeed the case for Francis and Evans, although you could argue that he chose AWJ over Ball. I thought Ball and Charteris were more effective than AWJ in the 6 Nations when they played.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 4:12 pm

The number of in injured players chosen is a worry. AWJ, Kruis and the Captain haven't played rugby for quite some time.

Anyway enough of that depressing rubbish,


10 June 2017
Italy v Scotland
National Stadium, Kallang, Singapore
Referee: Paul Williams (New Zealand)

17 June 2017
15:00 AEST (UTC+10)
Australia v Scotland
Allianz Stadium, Sydney [6]
Referee: Wayne Barnes (England)


24 June 2017
15:00 FJT (UTC+12)
Fiji v Scotland
ANZ National Stadium, Suva
Referee: Pascal Gaüzère (France)

Summer games to look forward to. 2 out of 3 would be good, but Australia have never looked more vulnerable...
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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by funnyExiledScot on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 4:17 pm

I think we can realistically target all three, based on the proposed 23 I listed above. We know we have the beating of Italy these days, and I do not fear the Australian and Fijian packs.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by IanBru on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 4:29 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:I think we can realistically target all three, based on the proposed 23 I listed above. We know we have the beating of Italy these days, and I do not fear the Australian and Fijian packs.
So true. If we can have Dicko and WP fit, with Gordo and Zander as backup, we could do some real damage. In fact, the Six Nations might have been very different if we'd been able to dominate some teams up front.

We'll probably beat Italy, probably lose to Australia, but the worry is the Fiji match. I think a large part of what Glasgow and now Scotland do so well was inspired by Niko and Naka in their time at Scotstoun; essentially a Fiji style, minus the Harlem Globetrotter levels of skill. I'm terrified that we'll try and play in flag-ball against Fiji, rather than keep it in the forwards before going wide. By all means, if we're three scores up with 20 to go, we can go nuts, but we need to see the Fiji game as a tour-defining match.
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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by funnyExiledScot on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 5:36 pm

The Fiji game will be organised chaos vs chaos. We should come out on top.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by BigGee on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 5:58 pm

I don't see Dicko nor Nel touring. They have both been injured all season and need to have the summer off and concentrate on getting properly fit for the start of next season. Neither of them are young and having a decent break at this stage in their careers may do them some good in the longer term.

It may well be the time for Toonie to bring a couple of new players in as well. It would be good to see Bradbury tour if he is fit. Josh Bassett at Wasps has been mentioned a few times before as well if he wants to play for Scotland. No-one else is massively putting up their hands for the other wing spot, none of Hoyland, Hughes or Jones really look like international players in all honesty.

Another good thing is that everyone should be reasonably well rested, unlike last summer in Japan, when they were clearly running on fumes. It could be an interesting tour.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by EWT Spoons on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 8:38 pm

BigGee wrote:I don't see Dicko nor Nel touring. They have both been injured all season and need to have the summer off and concentrate on getting properly fit for the start of next season. Neither of them are young and having a decent break at this stage in their careers may do them some good in the longer term.

It may well be the time for Toonie to bring a couple of new players in as well. It would be good to see Bradbury tour if he is fit. Josh Bassett at Wasps has been mentioned a few times before as well if he wants to play for Scotland. No-one else is massively putting up their hands for the other wing spot, none of Hoyland, Hughes or Jones really look like international players in all honesty.

Another good thing is that everyone should be reasonably well rested, unlike last summer in Japan, when they were clearly running on fumes. It could be an interesting tour.

I think there would be an opportunity to bring a few of the young lads along, you've already mentioned Bradbury, I think Kinghorn should tour as well. His recent form has been fairly poor, but the quality is there, so get him used to the set up. Sure there are a few others who could come along to get used to being in and around the Scotland camp.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by BigGee on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 8:51 pm

I would have agreed with you about Kinghorn earlier in the season, but he has looked shot these past few months. It is just not fair to ask a 19 year old to carry a poorly performing club side. THe situation at Edinburgh has clearly got to him. Sending him off for some sevens to get him out of the firing line was a good idea.

He is still eligible for the junior WC. Let him go off to Georgia, have a proper rest, then hopefully come back to a better organised club for next season where he can start to fulfil his potential.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by EWT Spoons on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 9:17 pm

I had the same idea about getting away from it (Edinburgh) with the Aus tour, but had forgotten about the junior wc.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Thu 20 Apr 2017, 10:42 am

Once the annoyance/anger has subsided (seriously, only two players in the whole squad??), I'm coming around to the viewpoint that it's not a bad thing really. It'll allow Toonie to pick close to a first choice team and get a good start at working with the players (admittedly the Glasgow ones should be relatively used to him by now, but the first time he brings out the tombola ball might surprise the others Wink).

I reckon two wins are the minimum, and we should be targeting all three.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by RDW_Scotland on Thu 20 Apr 2017, 10:55 am

A win against Australia would certainly make 2 in 41 look a bit questionable.

But then again according to Shanklin our players aren't very good and we only do well because we play well as a team.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by funnyExiledScot on Thu 20 Apr 2017, 11:00 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:A win against Australia would certainly make 2 in 41 look a bit questionable.

But then again according to Shanklin our players aren't very good and we only do well because we play well as a team.

That is pretty damning criticism of the Welsh coaches from Shanklin. He is basically saying that Cotter has cleaned the floor with Gatland and Howley, and that Gatland and Howley should not be coaching the Lions. Talk about turning on your former masters.....

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Thu 20 Apr 2017, 1:17 pm

Knew it wouldn't be long before they wheeled Telfer out of his cupboard for some reaction. Fairly measured by his normal standards

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/39644080

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Thu 20 Apr 2017, 1:49 pm

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by funnyExiledScot on Thu 20 Apr 2017, 1:59 pm


It's the Daily Mail of rugby. No-one takes Walesonline seriously.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by funnyExiledScot on Thu 20 Apr 2017, 2:00 pm

The gist of the argument is that Welsh players have Lions experience and Scottish players do not. Either that or Scotland players don't fit the mould of how Gatland wants to play.

It really is a stellar argument.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by Griff on Thu 20 Apr 2017, 2:04 pm

You should take it as a compliment, that your players don't fit into Gatland's 'mould' of how he'd like the players to play.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

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