F1 German GP Thread - Contains Qualifying & Race Spoilers as usual

[Fernando]

First topic message reminder :

Ain't doing it no one reads it anyway

[dyrewolfe]

Hamilton pole. Vettel pulls one out of the hat for second. Bottas third and should be disappointed. Mercedes was clearly the fastest car

In qualifying trim.

Ferrari & Red Bull have shown they can cause Mercedes problems in races...particularly if they can pull off a pass. Mercedes struggles in dirty air and not so great with a full tank of fuel. Can struggle to get the tyres to work if its too hot / cold. Pole at COTA is on the dirty side of the grid - less grip.

Could be an interesting race if Vettel nails his start. Expect Ricciardo to be in the mix too.

[dyrewolfe]

Ain't doing it no one reads it anyway

I always read your race weekend posts. You've become lazy Nando!

[Guest]

Hamilton wins, Vettel second, and Verstappen third (but clearly all four wheels off the track during that overtake on Kimi)

[GSC]

Kimi 3rd, Max got demoted for it.

Followed it on Twitter, seemed fairly dull, any better to watch?

[GSC]

Ain't doing it no one reads it anyway

I always read your race weekend posts. You've become lazy Nando!

I'm pretty sure they were a c/p from sky

[dyrewolfe]

Damn! That was some race!

Hamilton secures the Constructors' title for Mercedes with his 62nd victory. Had to work for it a bit this time, needing to overtake Vettel and Verstappen at various stages to regain the lead. Disappointing race for Bottas. Had a good duel with Ricciardo early on, but faded in the closing stages and was unable to keep Vettel and Verstappen (both on fresher Supersoft tyres) behind him.

Probably the best race Ferrari could have hoped for. Vettel briefly threatened to win, pipping Hamilton at the start, but Lewis bided his time and waited for his chance, retaking the lead a few laps later. Good race for Raikkonen - kept within touching distance of his team mate. Overtaken on the last lap by Verstappen, but Max went fully off-track and was demoted to 4th. Double podium finish their best result for a while.

Move Of The Day by Vettel - incredibly ballsy overtake, squeezing between Vandoorne and Bottas out of the first corner (I think) to take 3rd.

Mixed bag for Red Bull. Ricciardo was battling Bottas for 3rd place early in the race before an engine failure resulted in another DNF. Vertappen drove one of the best races I've ever seen. Up there with Button in Canada. Started 16th but worked his way up to 4th with some scintillating driving. Max my Driver Of The Day.

Good debut for Renault by Sainz to finish 7th. Both Force Indias in the points again.

[dyrewolfe]

Ain't doing it no one reads it anyway

I always read your race weekend posts. You've become lazy Nando!

I'm pretty sure they were a c/p from sky

Even lazier then, if he can't even be bothered to do a bit of copy n' pasting!

[Fernando]

Ain't doing it no one reads it anyway

I always read your race weekend posts. You've become lazy Nando!

I'm pretty sure they were a c/p from sky

Even lazier then, if he can't even be bothered to do a bit of copy n' pasting!

1# I haven't done one since Azerbaijan So ain't been reading that well
2# Not from Sky more often RaceDepartment

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Missed the race as I was at Goodison to see Koeman earn his p45. Only action I've seen is Vettel's move on Bottas with Vandoorne as a rolling chicane. High quality piece of action. Hamilton was clearly supreme all weekend and proved it by easing to the win. The second Mercedes is wasted with Bottas, he's just not very good.

Anyhow Toro Rosso have confirmed Pierre Gasly and Brendon Hartley for Mexico. I think it's fairly clearly Daniil Kvyat's goose is cooked at Red Bull.

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

So the worst kept secret in F1 has finally been confirmed Dr Helmut Marko has confirmed Daniil Kvyat has been axed from the Red Bull F1 programme. Marko stated Red Bull don't believe Kvyat can turn his career around. Also confirmed Gasly and Hartley for final 3 races of 2017. Got to think those will keep their seats for 2018 as well.

[GSC]

Kvyat would be worth a punt somewhere. Has some talent, suspect he needs more of an arm around him than RB provided.

RB academy must be drying up if Hartley is the best they can muster

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Kvyat would be worth a punt somewhere. Has some talent, suspect he needs more of an arm around him than RB provided.

RB academy must be drying up if Hartley is the best they can muster

Think you're being harsh on Hartley TBH. The boy won the 24hr of Le Mans and previously world champion in WEC. So he's got to have a decent amount of ability.


Bear in mind that Grosjean only returned to the F1 paddock for the second at a similar age to Hartley. Drivers mature at different stages.

[Fernando]

Hulkenburg won it 1st time doesn't say much for the ability of WEC Drivers. Le Mans is a reliability race at the best of times

[Trebs]

Kvyat would be worth a punt somewhere. Has some talent, suspect he needs more of an arm around him than RB provided.

RB academy must be drying up if Hartley is the best they can muster

I agree. Wonder if he's in contention for the seat at Williams?

[dummy_half]

Kvyat would be worth a punt somewhere. Has some talent, suspect he needs more of an arm around him than RB provided.

RB academy must be drying up if Hartley is the best they can muster

I agree. Wonder if he's in contention for the seat at Williams?

Is he old enough? I thought one of the issues was that the Martini sponsorship needs at least one of the drivers to be over 25 because of some commercial / promotional work in some countries.

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Exciting qualifying session in Mexico City. Vettel with his 50th career pole, edging out Verstappen. Hamilton and Bottas on the second row. Raikkonen and Ricciardo absolutely routed by their teammates.

It's clear why Red Bull have tied Verstappen down as he's comfortably better than Ricciardo. Infact Sainz Jr would properly be a better partner for Verstappen.

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Where's everyone hiding? Anyway Max Verstappen won an eventful Mexican GP ahead of Bottas and Raikkonen. Most of the action happened on lap 1 when Verstappen and Vettel banged wheels. Vettel suffered a broken front wing. Following into turn 3 Vettel understeered into Hamilton. Hamilton suffered a left rear puncture. Vettel left with half a front wing.

Max was imperious out front. Vettel pushed like madman but wasn't ever likely to reach p2 to keep title hopes alive. Hamilton came home 9th and sealed fourth world championship.

After the race the two title rivals seemed to kiss and make up so alls fair game for 2018. The race to catch Fangio is a two man race!

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Also red bull, max Verstappen, really on an upward curve. With mclaren using the same engine in 2018, here's to seeing a 4 way battle

[GSC]

I was watching the NFL tbh. Lost interest since the title fight ended and the races went to difficult times.

[Guest]

Strange race really. Shame the way it panned out, but the WDC was a forgone conclusion already. Congratulations to Hamilton, he's been a class act since Spa, and fully deserving of his fourth world title.

As for Vettel, once again imploding at the start. Heard the pundits stating he's been involved in around seven first lap incidents over the last two seasons

[GSC]

Massa retires again

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Brendon Hartley won the WEC for the second time in three years.

[dyrewolfe]

Brendon Hartley won the WEC for the second time in three years.

Nice! Lets hope he can show similar potential for Toro Rosso and eventually find his way into Red Bull.

Lando Norris has been confirmed as McLaren's test / reserve driver.

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Brazilian GP been and gone without a single message. Anyhoo Vettel won at São Paulo. Bottas second(started on pole with a storming lap on Saturday) with Raikkonen third. Hamilton crashed out in Q1 without setting a time, came home fourth. The top 4 where within 5 seconds at the end of the race.

Weekend was marred by many teams being attacksd by gangsters on route to the hotels. In fact Mercedes were actually robbed at gunpoint. As such Mclaren decided to cancel their tyre test in São Paulo.

[GSC]

Without a title fight of note, theres little reason to go out of your way to watch F1 given the current start times at the moment.

[dyrewolfe]

It was a reasonably good race. Bit of chaos at the start with 3 early retirements.

Vettel got the jump on Bottas first corner and stayed in the lead for pretty much the rest of the race, except during the pit stop window.

Hamilton had a decent race from the back...albeit helped by a new upgraded engine...to finish 4th.

Red Bulls were okay but nothing special (5th & 6th).

Massa finished his penultimate race in 7th and predictably got a standing ovation from the crowd.

Probably a lot more interesting than Abu Dhabi is going to be.

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Red Bull have confirmed Pierre Gasly and Brendon Hartley as Toro Rosso drivers for 2018.

[GSC]

Pirelli introducing a superhard compound for next year was all I needed this morning.

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

mega soft as well, unless they are gonna allow open tyre choices, I see no need for 7 dry weather compounds

[dyrewolfe]

mega soft as well, unless they are gonna allow open tyre choices, I see no need for 7 dry weather compounds

Utterly ridiculous and a total waste of money. Seriously - they could (should) make do with just 2 dry-weather compounds.


Anyway, the Abu Dhabi race was predictably boring, saved from being a total snore-fest only by some nice duelling between Stroll and Grosjean, of all people. Fair play to Stroll, the kid has some nice moves.

Despite Mercedes protests to the contrary, I got the distinct impression Hamilton was driving below his absolute max. I reckon if he had really wanted to pass Bottas, he would've found a way. Suspect there was some pre-race discussion. Funny how Lewis was within 1.2-1.5 seconds for much of the race and even when he got DRS he didn't even get alongside Valtteri on the straight.

Ridiculous how far they finished ahead of Ferrari - could almost have made another pit stop and still come out ahead. Heard there was some talk of the Yas Marina circuit being redesigned, to make it more conducive to overtaking.


Can't say I'm looking forward to next season too much either, unless Williams decide to give Kubica a race seat. Also be interesting to see how much progress McLaren make with a Renault engine, but thats about it. Unless Red Bull and/or Ferrari make a quantum leap in development, compared to Mercedes, I don't see much changing.

Oh and we've also got those godawful fugly halos to look forward to...

[dyrewolfe]

Oh yeah...and the new F1 logo sucks...




If I was to go with a new one, it would've been the top right...

[GSC]

Largely hoping for a another big leap from Ferrari for a decent 2018, else its likely to be more of the same. Once Merc got on top of their issues, they were faster by a decent margin on most tracks. That combined with Ferraris implosion Singapore onwards ended this season in terms of competition and entertainment.

[Guest]

As expected, Sauber announce multi-year title sponsorship agreement with Alfa Romeo from 2018. Ferrari also announce, their relationship with Santander is to end.

[Fernando]

Day 1 of testing - Everyone was on the hypersoft tyre apart from Robert Kubica who was on the soft tyre. Considering 3 steps between tyres doesn't say much for Stroll.

Pos. Driver Team Time Gap Laps
1 Kimi Raikkonen Ferrari 1:37.768 99
2 Daniel Ricciardo Red Bull 1:38.066 0.298 109
3 Lewis Hamilton Mercedes 1:38.551 0.783 136
4 Romain Grosjean Haas 1:39.270 1.502 137
5 Lance Stroll Williams 1:39.580 1.812 29
6 Fernando Alonso McLaren 1:39.762 1.994 115
7 Nico Hulkenberg Renault 1:39.803 2.035 85
8 Nikita Mazepin Force India 1:39.959 2.191 90
9 Robert Kubica Williams 1:41.296 3.528 100
10 Sean Gelael Toro Rosso 1:41.428 3.660 117
11 Marcus Ericsson Sauber 1:41.681 3.913 97
12 Oliver Turvey McLaren 1:41.914 4.146 105

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Robert Kubica posted a faster lap using the hypersoft than Lance Stroll managed yesterday. The Pole was a tenth faster than the Canadian rich boy. Rather embarrassing for Stroll as he was quoted in an interview wanting a 'team player' as his 2018 teammate. If Kubica returns he's obviously the #1 driver

[GSC]

Doesn't sound like Kubica did enough to make it a slam dunk

[GSC]

Also worth remembering Renault saw something that scared them off

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Alfa Romeo-Sauber have announced their driver lineup for 2018. Incumbent Marcus Ericsson with partner Ferrari protege Charles LeClerc

[GSC]

FIA confirm the limit on engine parts used in a season before grid penalties applied is lowered to 3.

Honda anticipate incurring grid penalties in 3rd practice in Australia.

[Guest]

Been down this road before. Tilting back towards conservation and management, is never a good direction to be heading in. Not a fan of the triple-header on the calendar either.

I see a rumoured Maserati title sponsor/link-up with Haas. If true, it’s a clever strategical move by Marchionne, firstly with Alfa, and now with Maserati

[GSC]

The only time F1 hasn't been about conservation and management was when tyres lasted forever. You can have strategy or no conservation.

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

The Robert Kubica dream has died, Williams set to promote development driver Sergey Sirotkin. Whilst it's obvious that Kubica isn't and can never to the same prior to his life altering injuries, Williams are now merely a pay driver team. Embarrassing

[Guest]

Kubica wasn’t fast enough. Apparently, Sirotkin & Di Resta out-performed him throughout testing. Sirotkin brings $15m to the table, which in Williams position, can’t be sniffed at.

[GSC]

That's two teams that have seen Kubica up close and passed. Sadly his F1 dream is just that

[Guest]

Daniil Kvyat has been signed by Ferrari as their development driver

Sergey Sirotkin to be confirmed by Williams relatively shortly. Not surprised, seeing as they’ve reportedly lost Randstad, Avanade & Hackett from their sponsorship for 2018

[GSC]

Kubica is the test driver supposedly.

Williams advantage was directly tied to Mercedes engine advantage. Their car is below average. Their driver lineup last year was the worst on the grid by a large distance.

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Charles LeClerc has selected his racing number. He elected for #16, he wanted #7 but a fellow Ferrari employee currently holds that digit.

[Guest]

The 2018 UK TV schedule is as follows:

March 25: Australian GP – Sky
April 8: Bahrain GP – Channel 4 and Sky
April 15: Chinese GP – Sky
April 29: Azerbaijan GP – Channel 4 and Sky
May 13: Spanish GP – Sky
May 27: Monaco GP – Channel 4 and Sky
June 10: Canadian GP – Sky
June 24: French GP – Sky
July 1: Austrian GP – Channel 4 and Sky
July 8: British GP – Channel 4 and Sky
July 22: German GP – Sky
July 29: Hungarian GP – Sky
August 26: Belgian GP – Channel 4 and Sky
September 2: Italian GP – Sky
September 16: Singapore GP – Channel 4 and Sky
September 30: Russian GP – Sky
October 7: Japanese GP – Channel 4 and Sky
October 21: United States GP – Channel 4 and Sky
October 28: Mexican GP – Sky
November 11: Brazilian GP – Sky
November 25: Abu Dhabi GP – Channel 4 and Sky

[GSC]

Goes fully behind a paywall next year doesn't it

[Guest]

Fernando Alonso will race at the Le Mans 24 Hours in 2018 and 2019, as part of a deal that will see him contest all but one World Endurance Championship race for Toyota this season.

He will miss October's WEC round at Fuji as it clashes with the US GP. This will be highly likely to change, as if he’s not contesting for the F1 championship, he’ll just change his mind.

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