NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

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NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by George Carlin on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 8:35 pm

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NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS  
24 June 2017
KO: 19:35 NZST (8.35am BST)
Eden Park, Auckland

Live on [Sky Sports HD]

Referee: Jaco Peyper (South Africa)
ARs: [tbc]
TMO: [tbc]

A. Head to Head

38 Played 38
29 Won 6
3 Drawn 3
6 Lost 29
634 Points 345

B. Recent Form

9 July 2005
Eden Park, Auckland
38 – 19 to New Zealand

2 July 2005
Westpac Stadium, Wellington
48 – 18 to New Zealand

25 June 2005
Lancaster Park, Christchurch
21 – 3 to New Zealand

3 July 1993
Eden Park, Auckland
30 – 13 to New Zealand

26 June 1993
Athletic Park, Wellington
7 – 20 to British & Irish Lions

12 June 1993
Lancaster Park, Christchurch
20 – 18 to New Zealand

16 July 1983
Eden Park, Auckland
38 – 6 to New Zealand

2 July 1983
Carisbrook, Dunedin
15 – 8 to New Zealand

18 June 1983
Athletic Park (Wellington), Wellington
9 – 0 to New Zealand

4 June 1983
Lancaster Park, Christchurch
16 – 12 to New Zealand

C. TEAMS:

NEW ZEALAND

01. Joe Moody (25)
02. Codie Taylor (16)
03. Owen Franks (91)
04. Brodie Retallick (61)
05. Samuel Whitelock (85)
06. Jerome Kaino (78)
07. Sam Cane (41)
08. Kieran Read (97)

09. Aaron Smith (59)
10. Beauden Barrett (50)
11. Rieko Ioane (2)
12. Sonny Bill Williams (34)
13. Ryan Crotty (26)
14. Israel Dagg (62)
15. Ben Smith (61)

16. Nathan Harris (5)
17. Wyatt Crockett (59)
18. Charlie Faumuina (47)
19. Scott Barrett (5)
20. Ardie Savea (13)
21. TJ Perenara (30)
22. Aaron Cruden (47) / Lima Sopoaga (7)
23. Anton Lienert-Brown (10)

BRITISH & IRISH LIONS  

15. Liam Williams – Scarlets, Wales, #833
14. Anthony Watson – Bath Rugby, England, #816
13. Jonathan Davies – Scarlets, Wales, #778
12. Ben Te’o – Worcester Warriors, England, #815
11. Elliot Daly – Wasps, England, #822
10. Owen Farrell – Saracens, England, #780
09. Conor Murray – Munster, Ireland, #790

01. Mako Vunipola – Saracens, England, #787
02. Jamie George – Saracens, England, #819
03. Tadhg Furlong – Leinster, Ireland, #818
04. Alun Wyn Jones – Ospreys, Wales, #761
05. George Kruis – Saracens, England, #817
06. Peter O’Mahony (capt) – Munster, Ireland, #832
07. Sean O’Brien – Leinster, Ireland, #796
08. Taulupe Faletau – Bath Rugby, Wales, #779

16. Ken Owens – Scarlets, Wales, #829
17. Jack McGrath – Leinster, Ireland, #827
18. Kyle Sinckler – Harlequins, England, #814
19. Maro Itoje – Saracens, England, #825
20. Sam Warburton – Cardiff Blues, Wales, #800
21. Rhys Webb – Ospreys, Wales, #820
22. Johnny Sexton – Leinster, Ireland, #791
23. Leigh Halfpenny – Toulon, Wales, #775


Last edited by George Carlin on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 1:10 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by lostinwales on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 8:49 pm

SamTheQuin wrote:Joseph only covers one position from bench though and that is his problem. If any back three player got crocked then its a problem, at least Halfpenny can cover wings and fb.

You think he can't cover wing?

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by TightHEAD on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 8:51 pm

Not enough Welsh in the team to blame if it all goes wrong on Saturday, well just have to blame the Welsh coaches instead.
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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 8:53 pm

AWJ, congratulations on the series win Abs.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by lostinwales on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 8:53 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Not enough Welsh in the team to blame if it all goes wrong on Saturday, well just have to blame the Welsh coaches instead.

The plan is we blame the Welsh finishers Wink

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by TightHEAD on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 8:54 pm

Welsh finishers finish 5th don't they?
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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by lostinwales on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 8:54 pm

Pleasantly surprised by the selection of Daly. I do think he is a very 'southern hemisphere' kind of back

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by TJ on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 9:00 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:I thought you were an advocate for unity Mikey?

That I am. Is there anything that's lead you to believe that I'm not? I try to lead by example but the English don't listen, they just carry on bad-mouthing most things Welsh Rolling Eyes

don't feed the troll

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by international198 on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 9:01 pm

It's nice to see Liam Williams picked at fullback but the Lions will still lose, IMO. New Zealand are much better than the Lions, IMO.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by Exiledinborders on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 9:02 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Welsh finishers finish 5th don't they?
Gatland must thank God for Italy.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by lostinwales on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 9:05 pm

TJ wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:I thought you were an advocate for unity Mikey?

That I am. Is there anything that's lead you to believe that I'm not? I try to lead by example but the English don't listen, they just carry on bad-mouthing most things Welsh Rolling Eyes

don't feed the troll

Mikey showing AWJ levels of leadership?

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by Griff on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 9:14 pm

Exiledinborders wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Welsh finishers finish 5th don't they?
Gatland must thank God for Italy.

More trolls out tonight.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by lostinwales on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 9:23 pm

Griff wrote:
Exiledinborders wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Welsh finishers finish 5th don't they?
Gatland must thank God for Italy.

More trolls out tonight.
Yeah well they are thinking of renaming the Lions to something a bit more contemporary

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 9:32 pm

Griff wrote:
Exiledinborders wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Welsh finishers finish 5th don't they?
Gatland must thank God for Italy.

More trolls out tonight.

Yeah including TJ. Not sure why I keep getting vilified for pointing it out tbh.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 9:35 pm

Exiledinborders wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Welsh finishers finish 5th don't they?
Gatland must thank God for Italy.

And yet Scotland are the most recent 'Lions nation' to lose to Italy and pick up the wooden spoon - yeah big Vern was there too, although I suppose this is all the fault of the Welsh aswell? Italy haven't got within touching distance of Wales for years in the 6N.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 9:42 pm

Well. I think we're all quite surprised by some of the calls. For all that North has done very little on tour and (Ireland game aside) in the 6N beforehand, I think most expected him to be in the side, particularly given he didn't feature on Tuesday. Daly instead is a bit of a surprise, though not an unpleasant one. He's acquitted himself well overall on tour IMO.

Williams ahead of Halfpenny another surprise for me, and a very welcome one. Williams was nailed on in my starting XV before the tour, though on the wing (had Hogg at FB). I guess him finally showing some form on Tuesday tipped the balance, but still wasn't expecting him to oust Halfpenny at FB.

Warburton not starting a bit of a surprise, but the starting backrow has been very well balanced in the warm-ups, so again happy with that call.

There are however areas of concern for me. AWJ is one of them. Fine player, and a great servant to Welsh rugby, but he didn't have a great 6N, and has been the worst of the locks on tour so far IMO. Itoje starting would have worried the ABs a lot more I reckon. Hope he proves me wrong.

Another concern is Farrell's fitness.

The last big concern is the bench. Not a huge amount of impact there for me. Sinckler and Webb certainly, while one of Sexton or Farrell was always going to be there. Less convinced by Warburton (Stander or Tipuric better options for me) and baffled by Halfpenny. Only really covers one position for which there's already cover on the pitch and really don't see what he's adding as a replacement. Joseph would have been a better option surely?

Still, overall it is a better side than I expected to see, so happy enough.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by David-Douglas on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 9:43 pm

Considering the squad at his disposal I suppose it's almost as good as it could get. He's picked the right captain. The back 3....? Not so sure.
Warburton, AWJ don't really deserve to be in the 23. Thankfully he's left out North, he's a shadow of the player he was.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by Griff on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 9:47 pm

So who covers centre if there's an injury? I guess Farrell moves to centre and Sexton comes on at 10? Can Daly play centre too?

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 9:51 pm

Griff wrote:So who covers centre if there's an injury? I guess Farrell moves to centre and Sexton comes on at 10? Can Daly play centre too?

yes Daly is an outside centre originally (has played most of his rugby there for Wasps) so he could move there if Davies has to go off (with Williams moving to the wing). Another option is Teo sliding to 13 and Farrell to 12 with Sexton coming on at 10.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by David-Douglas on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 9:54 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Exiledinborders wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Welsh finishers finish 5th don't they?
Gatland must thank God for Italy.

And yet Scotland are the most recent 'Lions nation' to lose to Italy and pick up the wooden spoon - yeah big Vern was there too, although I suppose this is all the fault of the Welsh aswell? Italy haven't got within touching distance of Wales for years in the 6N.

Also the most recent Lions nation to beat a top 3 SH team in the SH. When did Wales last do that?
Also the team that stuffed Wales the last time they played each other.
Also one of the teams that scored a try bonus point against Italy in the last 6 Nations. Remind me which other teams didn't get a try bonus point against Italy?

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by Cyril on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 10:00 pm

Griff wrote:I think generally the team has been picked on form. Apart from AWJ. AWJ?! WTF!

He could have picked Halfpenny, but didn't. People were calling for an attacking fullback.
People were adamant he'd go for North, but he didn't.
People were adamant that he'd go for Warbs as he was captain, but has bravely dropped him.
People were calling for POM as captain but assumed it would be Warbs or AWJ. It's neither.

Overall I'm quite happy with the team. Could have been a lot worse, a lot more 'Gatland'. But again AWJ?! WTF!l He's the glaring one. If he wasn't there I think most would be happy give or take.
From now on AWJ shall be known as WTF! Smile

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by Aelandor on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 10:02 pm

It really doesn't matter who the back 3 are. The whole back play will be exactly as it was in the warm up matches with this midfield. Murray to Farrell, who ships it off in super quick time to Teo (even if there's a yawning gap in front of him, or the blindside winger is in acres of space} Teo then runs hard in a straight line, maybe sidesteps an All Black and gets tackled ignoring the two man overlap.
We really need Halfpenny on as 65% kicking success just isn't good enough at this level.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by Aelandor on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 10:10 pm

Cyril wrote:
Griff wrote:I think generally the team has been picked on form. Apart from AWJ. AWJ?! WTF!

He could have picked Halfpenny, but didn't. People were calling for an attacking fullback.
People were adamant he'd go for North, but he didn't.
People were adamant that he'd go for Warbs as he was captain, but has bravely dropped him.
People were calling for POM as captain but assumed it would be Warbs or AWJ. It's neither.

Overall I'm quite happy with the team. Could have been a lot worse, a lot more 'Gatland'. But again AWJ?! WTF!l He's the glaring one. If he wasn't there I think most would be happy give or take.
From now on AWJ shall be known as WTF! Smile

How can you say the team has been picked on form when Farrell is at Outside half? 65% kicking success. no creativity with the ball in hand, predictable play and pretty average to awful restarts and kicking from hand? Both the other OH's have outperformed him on tour and got the backs moving better.

I know the usual response is "Ah but class is permanent", but if that is the case shut up about AWJ. You can.t have it both ways.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by Cyril on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 10:13 pm

Aelandor wrote:
Cyril wrote:
Griff wrote:I think generally the team has been picked on form. Apart from AWJ. AWJ?! WTF!

He could have picked Halfpenny, but didn't. People were calling for an attacking fullback.
People were adamant he'd go for North, but he didn't.
People were adamant that he'd go for Warbs as he was captain, but has bravely dropped him.
People were calling for POM as captain but assumed it would be Warbs or AWJ. It's neither.

Overall I'm quite happy with the team. Could have been a lot worse, a lot more 'Gatland'. But again AWJ?! WTF!l He's the glaring one. If he wasn't there I think most would be happy give or take.
From now on AWJ shall be known as WTF! Smile
How can you say the team has been picked on form when Farrell is at Outside half? 65% kicking success. no creativity with the ball in hand, predictable play and pretty average to awful restarts and kicking from hand? Both the other OH's have outperformed him on tour and got the backs moving better.

I know the usual response is "Ah but class is permanent", but if that is the case shut up about AWJ. You can.t have it both ways.
Right on, Mr Angry! Laugh

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 10:18 pm

Aelandor wrote:
Cyril wrote:
Griff wrote:I think generally the team has been picked on form. Apart from AWJ. AWJ?! WTF!

He could have picked Halfpenny, but didn't. People were calling for an attacking fullback.
People were adamant he'd go for North, but he didn't.
People were adamant that he'd go for Warbs as he was captain, but has bravely dropped him.
People were calling for POM as captain but assumed it would be Warbs or AWJ. It's neither.

Overall I'm quite happy with the team. Could have been a lot worse, a lot more 'Gatland'. But again AWJ?! WTF!l He's the glaring one. If he wasn't there I think most would be happy give or take.
From now on AWJ shall be known as WTF! Smile

How can you say the team has been picked on form when Farrell is at Outside half? 65% kicking success. no creativity with the ball in hand, predictable play and pretty average to awful restarts and kicking from hand? Both the other OH's have outperformed him on tour and got the backs moving better.

I know the usual response is "Ah but class is permanent", but if that is the case shut up about AWJ. You can.t have it both ways.

Speaks the truth, he'll probably be dismissed as a troll now.

Biggar can feel the most hard done by I agree.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 10:20 pm

David-Douglas wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Exiledinborders wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Welsh finishers finish 5th don't they?
Gatland must thank God for Italy.

And yet Scotland are the most recent 'Lions nation' to lose to Italy and pick up the wooden spoon - yeah big Vern was there too, although I suppose this is all the fault of the Welsh aswell? Italy haven't got within touching distance of Wales for years in the 6N.

Also the most recent Lions nation to beat a top 3 SH team in the SH. When did Wales last do that?
Also the team that stuffed Wales the last time they played each other.
Also one of the teams that scored a try bonus point against Italy in the last 6 Nations. Remind me which other teams didn't get a try bonus point against Italy?

Oh for FFS that was before the Lions tour and Townsend era, therefore irrelevant. So the only team to do that has been England. Pathetic wumming against Wales along with all the Scots and English.


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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by geoff999rugby on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 10:22 pm

SamTheQuin wrote:Joseph only covers one position from bench though and that is his problem. If any back three player got crocked then its a problem, at least Halfpenny can cover wings and fb.

Joseph can play wing just fine.
Sexton/Farrell can cover 15

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by Mr Bounce on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 10:25 pm

I am pleasantly surprised by the picks - I think that Gatland has gone (mostly) with his head rather than his heart, although I think we all knew the AWJ was going to start the 1st test as soon as he was named in the squad. WG has a big soft spot for him, despite him being off form. Despite this, AWJ is a big game player so that's the sole reason he's in the side. Do I think Itoje would be a better starter? Yes. However, WG needs at least one impact player on the bench!

I don't like AWJ, and I also think that he's badly off form this year. Can he rise to the occasion? Probably. Will it be enough? Probably not. Doesn't matter though. It's all about the Lions team, not which country they play for. I will support them regardless.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 10:31 pm

Well as fortunate as AWJ and Williams are I think Biggar is quite unfortunate. Farrell is most likely playing whilst keeping an injury secret. That's the only reason I can come up with for his uncharacteristic missed kicks and his general "not at the races" performances on the tour.

In addition Sexton has been quite predictable and uninspiring. Biggar has been the only fly half to actually get that backline clicking.

I also don't mind JD2 starting either. I felt he has played well.

Peter O'Mahony must be so proud. I'm really happy for him.
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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by RiscaGame on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 10:35 pm

Absolutely delighted Gats picked AWJ, so at least it gives people something to moan about. They'd have been pretty screwed otherwise.

Good side to be honest. Not many would expect Gats to be pretty attack minded, which he has been with the back three choices especially. The Lions are probably on a hiding to nothing anyway, so he's done what people like Hersh wanted and picked a more attack minded side than he'd probably like to and he still can't win. All because of a choice at lock which will likely make zero difference to the result anyway.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by The Great Aukster on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 10:37 pm

Gats confirmed as the biggest troll on these threads! He gives Liam Williams a full game on Tuesday and expects him to play to his potential four days later... Seriously? Against the All Blacks?
He's just yanking our chain - but still not the worst Lions coach ever.
'Humiliating Warburton' will be another chapter title in his memoirs and we will feel his pain at having to leave his tour captain out of the first Test team. However he will drop POM for the second Test and bring Sam back so the fairy tale will have a happy ending.
Expect a few English players to get special mention as being culprits for the big loss on Saturday and changes in Welsh favour for the remaining games. ☺

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by Thunderthighs on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 10:41 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
David-Douglas wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Exiledinborders wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Welsh finishers finish 5th don't they?
Gatland must thank God for Italy.

And yet Scotland are the most recent 'Lions nation' to lose to Italy and pick up the wooden spoon - yeah big Vern was there too, although I suppose this is all the fault of the Welsh aswell? Italy haven't got within touching distance of Wales for years in the 6N.

Also the most recent Lions nation to beat a top 3 SH team in the SH. When did Wales last do that?
Also the team that stuffed Wales the last time they played each other.
Also one of the teams that scored a try bonus point against Italy in the last 6 Nations. Remind me which other teams didn't get a try bonus point against Italy?

Oh for FFS that was before the Lions tour and Townsend era, therefore irrelevant. So the only team to do that has been England. Pathetic wumming against Wales along with all the Scots and English.
Did you not see last Saturday's result then?

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 10:44 pm

Thunderthighs wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
David-Douglas wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Exiledinborders wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Welsh finishers finish 5th don't they?
Gatland must thank God for Italy.

And yet Scotland are the most recent 'Lions nation' to lose to Italy and pick up the wooden spoon - yeah big Vern was there too, although I suppose this is all the fault of the Welsh aswell? Italy haven't got within touching distance of Wales for years in the 6N.

Also the most recent Lions nation to beat a top 3 SH team in the SH. When did Wales last do that?
Also the team that stuffed Wales the last time they played each other.
Also one of the teams that scored a try bonus point against Italy in the last 6 Nations. Remind me which other teams didn't get a try bonus point against Italy?

Oh for FFS that was before the Lions tour and Townsend era, therefore irrelevant. So the only team to do that has been England. Pathetic wumming against Wales along with all the Scots and English.
Did you not see last Saturday's result then?

Again, it was long after the Lions were selected.... it happened over a quarter of a way through the series.... I'm happy for the Scotland team by the way. It was an impressive win.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by Thunderthighs on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 11:00 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Thunderthighs wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
David-Douglas wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Exiledinborders wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Welsh finishers finish 5th don't they?
Gatland must thank God for Italy.

And yet Scotland are the most recent 'Lions nation' to lose to Italy and pick up the wooden spoon - yeah big Vern was there too, although I suppose this is all the fault of the Welsh aswell? Italy haven't got within touching distance of Wales for years in the 6N.

Also the most recent Lions nation to beat a top 3 SH team in the SH. When did Wales last do that?
Also the team that stuffed Wales the last time they played each other.
Also one of the teams that scored a try bonus point against Italy in the last 6 Nations. Remind me which other teams didn't get a try bonus point against Italy?

Oh for FFS that was before the Lions tour and Townsend era, therefore irrelevant. So the only team to do that has been England. Pathetic wumming against Wales along with all the Scots and English.
Did you not see last Saturday's result then?

Again, it was long after the Lions were selected.... it happened over a quarter of a way through the series.... I'm happy for the Scotland team by the way. It was an impressive win.

That's gracious Mikey, thanks. I'm happy for the Scots to stay with the national team for now, they'll form the bulk of the Lions next time.
I will be cheering on the Lions on Saturday, it's too late for whinging. And if my Kiwi friends (both of them) are anything to go by, it will make no difference that there are no Scots in the team. If we lose, they'll still take the p!ss. Endlessly.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by Thunderthighs on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 11:14 pm

Thunderthighs wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Thunderthighs wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
David-Douglas wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Exiledinborders wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Welsh finishers finish 5th don't they?
Gatland must thank God for Italy.

And yet Scotland are the most recent 'Lions nation' to lose to Italy and pick up the wooden spoon - yeah big Vern was there too, although I suppose this is all the fault of the Welsh aswell? Italy haven't got within touching distance of Wales for years in the 6N.

Also the most recent Lions nation to beat a top 3 SH team in the SH. When did Wales last do that?
Also the team that stuffed Wales the last time they played each other.
Also one of the teams that scored a try bonus point against Italy in the last 6 Nations. Remind me which other teams didn't get a try bonus point against Italy?

Oh for FFS that was before the Lions tour and Townsend era, therefore irrelevant. So the only team to do that has been England. Pathetic wumming against Wales along with all the Scots and English.
Did you not see last Saturday's result then?

Again, it was long after the Lions were selected.... it happened over a quarter of a way through the series.... I'm happy for the Scotland team by the way. It was an impressive win.

That's gracious Mikey, thanks. I'm happy for the Scots to stay with the national team for now, they'll form the bulk of the Lions next time.
I will be cheering on the Lions on Saturday, it's too late for whinging. And if my Kiwi friends (both of them) are anything to go by, it will make no difference that there are no Scots in the team. If we lose, they'll still take the p!ss. Endlessly.

PS Before the Lions tour and the Townsend era, or long after the Lions were selected? Can't be both.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 11:20 pm

Well, before Townsends first game in charge is what I meant. I wasn't sure how it would turn out for him but so far it's been a positive start. Scotland are playing just like Glasgow, sorry Edinburgh...

Good call on the next tour, might even get a Scottish coach too!

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by Thunderthighs on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 11:24 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Well, before Townsends first game in charge is what I meant. I wasn't sure how it would turn out for him but so far it's been a positive start. Scotland are playing just like Glasgow, sorry Edinburgh...

Good call on the next tour, might even get a Scottish coach too!
Fingers Crossed

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by David-Douglas on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 11:31 pm

Aelandor wrote:
Cyril wrote:
Griff wrote:I think generally the team has been picked on form. Apart from AWJ. AWJ?! WTF!

He could have picked Halfpenny, but didn't. People were calling for an attacking fullback.
People were adamant he'd go for North, but he didn't.
People were adamant that he'd go for Warbs as he was captain, but has bravely dropped him.
People were calling for POM as captain but assumed it would be Warbs or AWJ. It's neither.

Overall I'm quite happy with the team. Could have been a lot worse, a lot more 'Gatland'. But again AWJ?! WTF!l He's the glaring one. If he wasn't there I think most would be happy give or take.
From now on AWJ shall be known as WTF! Smile

How can you say the team has been picked on form when Farrell is at Outside half? 65% kicking success. no creativity with the ball in hand, predictable play and pretty average to awful restarts and kicking from hand? Both the other OH's have outperformed him on tour and got the backs moving better.

I know the usual response is "Ah but class is permanent", but if that is the case shut up about AWJ. You can.t have it both ways.

I can't argue with that, as Biggar has been the most creative 10 on tour. Farrell doesn't do it for me, never has. Good at what he does though. Not that what I think is particularly relevant. AWJ - there are just so many better options, many of whom didn't even get on the 'plane.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by BigTrevsbigmac on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 6:22 am

David-Douglas wrote:
Aelandor wrote:
Cyril wrote:
Griff wrote:I think generally the team has been picked on form. Apart from AWJ. AWJ?! WTF!

He could have picked Halfpenny, but didn't. People were calling for an attacking fullback.
People were adamant he'd go for North, but he didn't.
People were adamant that he'd go for Warbs as he was captain, but has bravely dropped him.
People were calling for POM as captain but assumed it would be Warbs or AWJ. It's neither.

Overall I'm quite happy with the team. Could have been a lot worse, a lot more 'Gatland'. But again AWJ?! WTF!l He's the glaring one. If he wasn't there I think most would be happy give or take.
From now on AWJ shall be known as WTF! Smile

How can you say the team has been picked on form when Farrell is at Outside half? 65% kicking success. no creativity with the ball in hand, predictable play and pretty average to awful restarts and kicking from hand? Both the other OH's have outperformed him on tour and got the backs moving better.

I know the usual response is "Ah but class is permanent", but if that is the case shut up about AWJ. You can.t have it both ways.

I can't argue with that, as Biggar has been the most creative 10 on tour. Farrell doesn't do it for me, never has. Good at what he does though. Not that what I think is particularly relevant. AWJ - there are just so many better options, many of whom didn't even get on the 'plane.

Farrell runs the defensive line & is arguably our best kicker out of hand & easily has the best passing game compared to his peers. I can't agree that he has no creativity with ball in hand. Anyone who has seen him play regularly would know that's simply not true.
AWJs simply has not shown enough for a while compared to others but I think most agree on that.
If Warbs isn't starting then I would have had Tips on the bench for impact.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by Scottrf on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 6:51 am

Another big difference is that there are huge performers at lock. And Farrell hasn't given away 5 penalties.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 7:30 am

Fair comment from Griff...its not ad bad as it might have been. AWJ is the only terrible selection.
What Scotlanf player had a chance? Seymour at best but hes not a good bench option.
Farrell over Sexton is a bit questionable too but seems to be a comprimise with keeping halfpenny on the bench.
Teo was an outsider to even get on the tour but hes continued to prove his doubters wrong. Theres a lot more to him than running into the nearest defender.

The outside backs have bags of threat ...if they can get the ball they will score.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by R!skysports on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 7:40 am

I think overall the team is not a bad selection and I will be happy to give Gatland a thumbs up for the selections with one or two exceptions

Think Bigger is a bit unlucky - not really like him as a player - a bit whingy, but he has played well and think deserved to be in the 23

AWJ - this is a travisty - all the other locks have out performed him this tour and no idea why he is selected. It seems he penned in before the 6 nations and regardless of 6 nations and lions performances he was destined to be in the team. Glad he was not made captain - a small change from Gatland?

Lawes - unlucky - deserves to be in the 23 (With Henderson), but maybe he is recovering from the second head knock


So for the team (and Gatland) 7 out of 10


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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by Breadvan on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 7:49 am

Genuinely shocked at Gatlands decisions by dropping his trusted lieutenants Halfp and Warburton to the bench and North altogether, Very bold. Not surprised at AWJ either, ok he hasn't had a great tour so far but he's a trusted player, Plus Itoje can be a superb impact sub to have on the bench.
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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by rapidsnowman on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 7:49 am

POM clap

The tour's biggest 'bolter' so far.

1. Not a dead cert to tour considering form of CJ and Robshaw
2. head to head for a match slot with CJ (who seemed to have displaced him for Ireland) and potentially Warbs if played at 6 to accommodate SOB or Tips

and he has come through not only to claim a starting berth but also the captaincy!

Really hope he has a great game!

Exactly the sort of abrasive player that will be needed against the AB's.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 7:52 am

Gooseberry wrote:Fair comment from Griff...its not ad bad as it might have been. AWJ is the only terrible selection.
What Scotlanf player had a chance? Seymour at best but hes not a good bench option.
Farrell over Sexton is a bit questionable too but seems to be a comprimise with keeping halfpenny on the bench.
Teo was an outsider to even get on the tour but hes continued to prove his doubters wrong. Theres a lot more to him than running into the nearest defender.

The outside backs have bags of threat ...if they can get the ball they will score.

It's all fair comments. Without going through the call up travesty again this is mostly the best team he could have picked.

Had he picked more Scots to begin with his test team might have been more cosmopolitan. As it stands no scot has played well enough to be selected. Seymour has been the best, but he hasn't played better than Halfpenny, Watson or Nowell.

I've said previously Biggar would have started at 10 for me, however he did play 80 minutes on Tuesday, which leads me onto Williams. 80 minutes on Tuesday and now playing the all blacks... weird especially since he hasn't exactly been phenomenal.

AWJ is the most inexplicable. He's not played poorly, but he's not been the best...
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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 7:56 am

R!skysports wrote:I think overall the team is not a bad selection and I will be happy to give Gatland a thumbs up for the selections with one or two exceptions

Think Bigger is a bit unlucky - not really like him as a player - a bit whingy, but he has played well and think deserved to be in the 23

AWJ - this is a travisty - all the other locks have out performed him this tour and no idea why he is selected. It seems he penned in before the 6 nations and regardless of 6 nations and lions performances he was destined to be in the team. Glad he was not made captain - a small change from Gatland?

Lawes - unlucky - deserves to be in the 23 (With Henderson), but maybe he is recovering from the second head knock


So for the team (and Gatland) 7 out of 10


Id add Stander to the list of unlucky players. Especially as theres no real cover at 8 in the 23.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by bsando on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 7:56 am

Interesting selection that I think will do very well actually. I probably would of gone for 1/2p over Williams at 15 but I suppose the original plan was for an attacking fullback anyway. AWJ over Itoje, Lawes.. hmmm

I still think AB's have this in the bag but its going to be an interesting test none the less. Roll on Saturday!
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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by TightHEAD on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 8:13 am

AWJ..........AWJ.............AWJ...............AWJ...........Why is all of his name used?

His surname is just Wyn Jones?

Alun was lucky to get a starting spot.
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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by LondonTiger on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 8:22 am

I doubt many people, other than the coaches, would have picked this team in it's entirety. That would have been the case no matter what and whom they selected. For everyone whinging about AWJ, Farrell, Te'o, JD2, Daly, Williams being in the side, there would be people whinging if they were not. I am worried that too much store has been set for a good performance against a weak Chiefs team, and last minute changes made - but we do not know the thought processes the coached have followed.

I suppose after the game, which we will probably lose fairly comfortably, there will be recriminations along national bias - but just for now we are not English, Welsh or Irish -

WE ARE LIONS*.





Sorry Scots, we do feel your pain - honest.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by Griff on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 8:28 am

TightHEAD wrote:AWJ..........AWJ.............AWJ...............AWJ...........Why is all of his name used?

His surname is just Wyn Jones?

Alun was lucky to get a starting spot.


His surname is Jones.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by TightHEAD on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 8:31 am

Not WTF?
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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

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