England vs West Indies - test series thread

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England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 10 Aug 2017, 4:38 pm

First topic message reminder :

So England have announced that the squad for this series will be announced today....will try to update as soon as it comes out!
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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by Duty281 on Fri 08 Sep 2017, 7:16 pm

Shocking second review from Root.

None left now for 50-odd overs.

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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 08 Sep 2017, 7:20 pm

Really not sure why Stokes is into an 8th over here - he hasn't threatened bar one meh LBW appeal

Broad should be bowling
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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by Duty281 on Fri 08 Sep 2017, 7:34 pm

Good day of test cricket.

I make the Windies narrow favourites from here. Two sessions of batting tomorrow could build an imposing lead. Three sessions could equal game over.

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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by KP_fan on Fri 08 Sep 2017, 7:41 pm

another good test match ongoing....

--it might appear WI let Eng get away with 40 runs too many...but such is the makeup of Eng batting full of middle and lower middle order batters that somewhere a few of them will get 20s and 30s and 40 in low scoring game to outdo the opponent.
So 194 is not a bad deal for WI

--They have to bat well one time.....a couple of them have to get big 50s and get to about 200+ on lead....and they wiil stretch Eng
Ball is swinging but WI has better pure batsmen than Eng.....and can get there with some resolve.

--Stokes is a big differentiator for Eng...if he instead of Woakes was injured Eng would have lost even to SA

--and applause for Anderson clap
Yeoman's Service for England
The Anil Kumble equivalent of Eng.....champion on designer home pitches...and  good elsewhere

--Eng are 80-20 favorites.......I would like to see WI go down fighting and not be rolled over by 8 wickets


Last edited by KP_fan on Fri 08 Sep 2017, 7:54 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by VTR on Fri 08 Sep 2017, 7:43 pm

I make England favourites still. Strong start tomorrow and the Windies could be effectively 50-5 with not much batting left.

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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 08 Sep 2017, 7:53 pm

Duty281 wrote:Good day of test cricket.

I make the Windies narrow favourites from here. Two sessions of batting tomorrow could build an imposing lead. Three sessions could equal game over.

Have to disagree here Duty - England just on top for me. West Indies are 22-3, and realistically need to set a target of 200+, to be in with a shot. If England get Hope early tomorrow they're in the driving seat

Another good test match though
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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by KP_fan on Fri 08 Sep 2017, 8:03 pm

Well WI's upside with the bat...

Hope, Chase, Blackwood....all capable of big 50s
Holder & Dorwich capable of 30s to 40s
Bishoo is capable of 15 to 20
and the two fast bowlers about 15 runs between them

the downside all of them can rollover within the next 60 runs ( Eng's upside)

realistically...it should be something in between.......


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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by guildfordbat on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 12:04 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Good day of test cricket.

I make the Windies narrow favourites from here. Two sessions of batting tomorrow could build an imposing lead. Three sessions could equal game over.

Have to disagree here Duty - England just on top for me. West Indies are 22-3, and realistically need to set a target of 200+, to be in with a shot. If England get Hope early tomorrow they're in the driving seat

Another good test match though

Have to side with Olly on this. If anything, England are more than just on top for me. 23 wickets have fallen in less than 6 full sessions. I feel Duty's asking a lot of the Windies' remaining 7 wickets over 2 or 3 sessions tomorrow.

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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by Duty281 on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 10:46 am

Conditions are better for batting today. If the Windies set England something north of 200, I think the pressure will be too great on a fragile top order, and the tourists will triumph.

Essentially, if the West Indies bat for two sessions today, they'll probably win. Bat the day, they'll certainly win.

Of course, if England land early wickets today, the pendulum will alter!

But my gut feeling is that England didn't fully maximise the wicket-taking potential of last night, and the Windies will set something like 220-240, which will be too much for the hosts.

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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 11:00 am

Great pre session zone with Marcus Trescothick there on Sky - what a top bloke and great talent - most runs in the county championship since 2007 by over 2,500 despite playing less games than 2/3/4 on the list. Such a shame his mental illness cut short his international career - was well on for being England's top run scorer himself in tests/ODIs
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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by Duty281 on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 11:03 am

Early wicket for England!

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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by Duty281 on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 11:21 am

Another drop; absolutely should have been taken.

Stupid shot from Blackwood goes unpunished.

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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 11:22 am

Another drop...this time Blackwood - really should have been taken.

If England do end up losing this series - their fielding will be the main reason. Very very poor catching.
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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by Duty281 on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 11:40 am

The drop doesn't cost England very much. Anderson gets Blackwood; Windies in more trouble.

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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by alfie on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 11:48 am

Blackwood's innings ends at five...and not a very good five Smile

Jimmy on fire this morning. Broad continues to have not much luck ; but isn't quite at his best in any case.

West Indies still have Hope , I suppose ...but it looks a stretch for them to set a challenging target ...

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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by alfie on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 11:53 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Another drop...this time Blackwood - really should have been taken.

If England do end up losing this series - their fielding will be the main reason. Very very poor catching.

Both teams have dropped as much as they've caught in this series ...have basically cancelled each other out Smile

Really not sure what has caused such an epidemic of drops . Generally reliable catchers (Cook , Stokes , Broad) ...have all been guilty. Not as if they've been fielding in unfamiliar positions or anything. Odd.

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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by Duty281 on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 12:04 pm

Good first hour for England. Plenty of movement and lots of low bounce; quite erratic for a third day Lord's pitch.

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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by guildfordbat on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 12:18 pm

Duty281 wrote:Good first hour for England. Plenty of movement and lots of low bounce; quite erratic for a third day Lord's pitch.

Hi Duty - yep, strange. Most Championship matches at Lord's this season have deteriorated into boring draws with the home supporters highly critical of what they've perceived as Lord's roads.

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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by alfie on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 12:28 pm

Dowrich would probably bat at eleven for England ...surprised he made double figures today. Surely West Indies have someone better ?

Holder arrives and this pair really are it for the tourists. England will reckon one more now and this will be over well before tea...

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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by guildfordbat on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 12:30 pm

That was a very poor shot from Dowrich. That was never going to be dropped even in this match!

If someone doesn't stick around to provide support to Hope, this could be over before tea.


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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 12:46 pm

Fifty for Shai Hope - a real young talent blossoming before our eyes
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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by guildfordbat on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 12:49 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Fifty for Shai Hope - a real young talent blossoming before our eyes

Yes, he's played well and always more difficult to do so when others are falling around you.

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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by alfie on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 12:50 pm

Hope doing his best to set a target on his own...really has come of age in this series - fine battling fifty clap

Batting doesn't look so hard since the opening bowlers came off : not that Toby and Ben are bowling poorly , but they aren't getting he same movement as the pitch continue to ease.

Moeen on now...

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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by alfie on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 12:59 pm

Moeen might fancy his chances against Holder. Hope , though , is beginning to look immovable .

Lead up to 77. Wonder what they'd need to make England nervous ?


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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 1:10 pm

Another Cook drop...
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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 1:19 pm

alfie wrote:Moeen might fancy his chances against Holder.  Hope , though , is beginning to look immovable .

Lead up to 77.   Wonder what they'd need to make England nervous ?


150+ I reckon - thing as shown with England's batting is despite top order collapses, due to the depth it is tough to bowl them out for anything below that.
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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by alfie on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 1:58 pm

Outstanding from Anderson after lunch...a peach to entice the edge from the excellent Hope...

Followed by a grenade to castle Bishoo immediately. thumbsup

Jimmy has his best figures at Lord's now.

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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by Duty281 on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 2:00 pm

Excellent from Anderson.

Day 3 win within sight.

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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by alfie on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 2:05 pm

Hope's 62 the best score of the match so far...has certainly been one for the bowlers .

Holder now trying to steer his team's lead past one hundred...he is a gutsy player : should surely bat ahead of Dowrich in this lineup. Not that I'd expect Dowrich to continue as keeper in this team: he doesn't look nearly good enough in either discipline. This team has some potential ; think a better gloveman/ batsman is something they need to find to help it move forward .

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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 2:16 pm

Windies needs to get Darren Bravo back into the Test side. He easily bats at 3 ahead of Kyle Hope. Also why was Ramdin axed for Dowrich? Ramdin was a good keeper and more then capable with the bat.

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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by alfie on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 2:24 pm

Seven for Jimmy Yahoo His best ever , 7/42
thumbsup

107 to win.

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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by Duty281 on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 2:27 pm

Best figures for Anderson at Lord's!

I still have horrific memories of England getting rolled out for 50-odd in 2009 vs the WI, and 70-odd against Pakistan in 2012, so I wouldn't celebrate just yet!

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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by guildfordbat on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 2:36 pm

Duty281 wrote:Best figures for Anderson at Lord's!

I still have horrific memories of England getting rolled out for 50-odd in 2009 vs the WI, and 70-odd against Pakistan in 2012, so I wouldn't celebrate just yet!

Duty - fair enough, no celebration yet but I would look to sell on pretty quick any betting slip showing a Windies win. Wink

Excellent work from Anderson. Hard on the heels of Walsh now and McGrath possibly in sight.

Whenever I watched (that's covering myself in case I missed any howlers), Bairstow was very sound behind the stumps. Hardly mentioned here which is a good sign.

Important knock now for Stoneman ....

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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by alfie on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 2:52 pm

Duty281 wrote:Best figures for Anderson at Lord's!

I still have horrific memories of England getting rolled out for 50-odd in 2009 vs the WI, and 70-odd against Pakistan in 2012, so I wouldn't celebrate just yet!

This pitch (today) is not one of those. Lord knows England's batting has been fragile of late ; but collapsing for under 100 would be quite an achievement - in an upside down sort of way !

Incidentally : the Duty I remember from a year or two back tended to almost crazy-brave optimism. What has happened to induce this excess of ultra caution ? Are you morphing into Trebell ?

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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by alfie on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 3:03 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Best figures for Anderson at Lord's!

I still have horrific memories of England getting rolled out for 50-odd in 2009 vs the WI, and 70-odd against Pakistan in 2012, so I wouldn't celebrate just yet!

Duty - fair enough, no celebration yet but I would look to sell on pretty quick any betting slip showing a Windies win. Wink

Excellent work from Anderson. Hard on the heels of Walsh now and McGrath possibly in sight.

Whenever I watched (that's covering myself in case I missed any howlers), Bairstow was very sound behind the stumps. Hardly mentioned here which is a good sign.

Important knock now for Stoneman ....

I hope you are watching Stoneman now , guildford : I like the way he is approaching this innings ... Small target , I know : but his bright , positive attitude from the start here is making it look even smaller.

Oops must be careful as he nearly got run out then ! But I hope he can get a few here now as I have a hunch he might quite like Australian conditions. Whether as opener or possibly at three after Hameed...

Glad to see you continuing to warm to Bairstow the WK : I've watched a lot of this season and among the numerous drops by outfielders he has been notably free of bad errors - enormous improvement on his cv from last home summer. Appears to have worked very hard on that aspect of his game ; and it has paid off.

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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by guildfordbat on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 3:18 pm

alfie wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Best figures for Anderson at Lord's!

I still have horrific memories of England getting rolled out for 50-odd in 2009 vs the WI, and 70-odd against Pakistan in 2012, so I wouldn't celebrate just yet!

Duty - fair enough, no celebration yet but I would look to sell on pretty quick any betting slip showing a Windies win. Wink

Excellent work from Anderson. Hard on the heels of Walsh now and McGrath possibly in sight.

Whenever I watched (that's covering myself in case I missed any howlers), Bairstow was very sound behind the stumps. Hardly mentioned here which is a good sign.

Important knock now for Stoneman ....

I hope you are watching Stoneman now , guildford
: I like the way he is approaching this innings ... Small target , I know : but his bright , positive attitude from the start here is making it look even smaller.

Oops must be careful as he nearly got run out then !   But I hope he can get a few here now as I have a hunch he might quite like Australian conditions. Whether as opener or possibly at three after Hameed...

Glad to see you continuing to warm to Bairstow the WK : I've watched a lot of this season and among the numerous drops by outfielders he has been notably free of bad errors - enormous improvement on his cv from last home summer.  Appears to have worked very hard on that aspect of his game ; and it has paid off.

I am, Alfie. I am. What I particularly like about Stoneman is that he'll always attack a poor ball whenever it comes, even if at the very start of an innings. However, he doesn't get carried away by that and will be content to revert to a more defensive role for better deliveries. Very good temperament which should serve him well in the Test arena although I fully recognise he needs to put the scores on the doors to stay there.

Bairstow should win any ''most improved'' award hands down!

Westley now with a chance to get a winter in Australia ....

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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by alfie on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 3:29 pm

Stoneman after his initial burst of scoring has rather throttled back...though in truth he's not had a lot of strike. Just put a short one away firmly then ...

I have seen a few less flattering views on Stoneman in Another Place I frequent...but I suspect you have seen rather more of him than some of his critics.

Just re watched all seven of Jimmy's wickets : 3 caught behind , 4 clean bowled : hard pressed to recall a more perfect sequence of dismissals by any pace bowler in a Test Match ! Given that the pitch basically flattened out today I'd rate that right up there with the great one-off performances...

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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by KO-KING on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 3:55 pm

Anderson on for mcgtaths record?

Couple of years ago, thought he'll break 500, but he seems to be getting better

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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 4:03 pm

Lovely little moment there for Blowers

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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by alfie on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 4:04 pm

KO-KING wrote:Anderson on for mcgtaths record?

Couple of years ago, thought he'll break 500, but he seems to be getting better

He is getting better. Lost a little in speed ; but not that much - and pace hasn't been his main weapon for a long time. He seems to have developed a couple more tricks ; and the control - good for several years now - has , if anything , improved.

Still going to find it tougher in Australia . Pitches won't suit as much , heat will test him. But provided they get the right set of back up bowlers in there with him the combination may do the job...

If he can stay fit I think he might pass McGrath and finish behind only the three spinners.

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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by alfie on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 4:06 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Lovely little moment there for Blowers

It was. Can't say I was ever much of a fan of his ; but I don't begrudge him his farewell . All the best to him in his retirement OK

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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by alfie on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 4:15 pm

Nine wicket win thumbsup

Talk selection later. For now guinness cider Bubbly

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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by guildfordbat on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 4:37 pm

I never shared Duty's anxieties although there was probably something of a metaphor in Stoneman scrambling the winning two runs and getting home with a dive. Smile

Anyway, I'm pretty sure that will be good enough to get him to Australia this winter. Westley might also have done enough today to join him - hard to see too many alternatives.

Anyway, a fine win after a bad wobble last time out ... although we have to hang on to more of those chances!

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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 8:44 pm

Magnificent from Anderson with the ball and good to see England knock off a small total comfortably

I like Stoneman and I think that innings cements his Ashes tour spot. He may need a score or two in the warm up games to cement an XI place. His game is suited to playing in Australia imo, he lines it up well

Westley played nicely too - think he could do with a FC score or two to cement a tour place
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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by LionsV2 on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 8:54 pm

Westley opened up a bit and it always makes batting easier, too many of those tried recently have let themselves get bogged down not scoring. That's all well and good if you're Hameed and a naturally cautious player but Hales, Malan, Jennings, Ballance and Westley aren't like that.

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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by sirfredperry on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 9:03 pm

Was at Lord's for the whole match. I thought England would win as they always seem to be at their best after a disappointing defeat. But for the, IMHO, over-generous and slightly disrespectful declaration at Leeds this would have been a 2-0 rather than a 2-1 win.
   Glad that Stokes got the MoM at Lord's, as his 60 was crucial following his heroics with the ball. Any way, Jimmy got Man of the Series.
   Shai Hope looked classy. In particular, there was one magnificent back-foot force which sent the ball to the long-on boundary.
   I would say that England's batting is still fragile, with far too much depending on Cook and Root. Not convinced this bowling attack is going to be that penetrative Down Under, either. I would make Australia favourites for the Ashes. But then all Test sides are difficult to beat when they are playing at home.

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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 9:06 pm

A word for Blowers too - one of norfolks finest! What a career, one of the voices of cricket gone
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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by KP_fan on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 10:12 pm

Well Anderson in these conditions was just too much for WI to handle.
They will go back though....having achieved more than they thought or anyone else thought was possible.....and beyond the realms of unimaginable after T1.

Talent they have...but with application and belief there is hope for the future of test cricket with them

Eng have issues...they are surviving on runs scored by Stokes, Ali and Butler....they need atleast one good consistent top order batsman to come in with Cook and Root

Root has to come out  of the "affable nervous boyish" mode and become more phlegmatic man as a captain.
His panic/ despair ridden face in T2 and shades of it when blowing up the two referrals yesterday.....is not sustainable as a test match captain
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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by Gooseberry on Mon 11 Sep 2017, 8:27 am

alfie wrote:
KO-KING wrote:Anderson on for mcgtaths record?

Couple of years ago, thought he'll break 500, but he seems to be getting better

He is getting better.  Lost a little in speed ; but not that much - and pace hasn't been his main weapon for a long time.  He seems to have developed a couple more tricks ; and the control - good for several years now - has , if anything , improved.

Still going to find it tougher in Australia . Pitches won't suit as much , heat will test him. But provided they get the right set of back up bowlers in there with him the combination may do the job...

If he can stay fit I think he might pass McGrath and finish behind only the three spinners.


Andersons figures have steadily  improved in the last four years.... his career average hasnt been this low since his 5th cap, it was above 30 for the bulk of his career. Hes now back up to the number one ranked bowler in the world, so whilst he has lost a yard of pace (which was never his weapon anyway) theres no question he can still swing it as well as anyone and is deadly in the type of conditions we saw this "summer". He has missed a fair few winter tests in recnet years though, which does hark back tro him being a bit of a home track bully. He did OK in Australia last time but nothing vaguely like this performance, Id expect the same again if he can stay fit.

In terms of records that really depends on how long he keeps going. Id expect next summer to be his last despite still being as effective as ever. Theres a fair chance he will pass Walsh this winter if he stays injury free, but Mcgarth is still miles ahead. He could do another 2 full years and not pass that total.

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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

Post by alfie on Mon 11 Sep 2017, 12:49 pm

Hardly "miles" behind , Goose... 57 at the moment : he took 39 in the summer just past. One more such northern summer and a couple of tours : but to be honest I could easily see Jimmy still playing for England at home in 2019.
Obviously we cannot know for sure how his body will hold up ; but he looks as fit as ever and if he's still got the desire...

Certainly England still look to him first as their main bowler - perhaps a little bit more than is healthy : but unless someone arrives with a bang soon that may continue for a while yet.

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Re: England vs West Indies - test series thread

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