European Cup Round 3 & 4 - Pool 3: Exeter v Leinster 10 & 16 Dec 2017

Donnacha O’Callaghan says his Worcester team mates regard the PRO14 as a joke shop.   Despite what he and Ben Te’o try to tell them.  No international players and no relegation.   It’s a joke.  The European Cup on the other hand is the real deal when it comes to assessing the teams, they believe.  Exeter are everybody’s favorite second team in the Premiership, says O’Callaghan.  Over the two weekends, it’s Premiership vs PRO14 with Ulster, Leinster and Munster all involved in hiberno-anglo dust-ups and Saints v Ospreys.   Munster v Leicester has some appeal but the match that players not involved are really looking forward to is the showdown between the English table toppers and the Irish Conference B second placers.  

At first glance, it hardly looks fair.  One club dripping with money from swashbuckling TV deals, and further riches from its highly profitable union, and nearly 20 players drawn from NZ, Australia, SA, Wales, Ireland, Scotland, Italy, Germany, and Tonga. The other largely surviving on homegrown talent and a couple of uncapped foreign imports.  One still whooping it up as a current league champion, the other hasn’t seen decent silverware since God was a boy or five years anyway.  

Still the Leinster players tried their best last weekend and scored a couple of tries on the barren turf of Sandy Park - for opposition teams that is - Exeter have the second meanest defence in the league with just 22 tries conceded and the most tries scored with 36 after 10 matches.   They’ve lost just 2 league games this season.  And they’re now 2 from 3 in Europe.   Leinster have 8 wins in the PRO14 Championship with 41 tries under their belt. They’re 3 from 3 in the Cup.  

Leinster are probably the best placed with bookies of the joke shop teams.   They’ll need to be at their very best over the two weekends if those odds are to be kept or reduced.

Leinster won the first away leg 18-8 and are now back at their large alternative home in Lansdowne Road for the return leg.  Exeter will be smarting and looking to show they have more than pick and go in their arsenal to grind down opposition teams.   Leinster won’t be lulled into a false sense of security a la their return Northampton game a few years ago.    Weather forecast is showing possibility of rain in Dublin, or it could hold off to just be a very cold windless Saturday afternoon.  There’ll appear to be a bit more width on the pitch for both teams to play to their fullest extent.   If it stays dry the try count should be higher than last week - but it’s still to tough to call who the winner will be.  


Possible Teams:

Leinster Rugby confirmed

15. Rob Kearney; 14. Fergus McFadden, 13. Garry Ringrose, 12. Robbie Henshaw, 11. Isa Nacewa; 10. Johnny Sexton, 9. Luke McGrath; 1. Cian Healy, 2. Sean Cronin, 3. Tadhg Furlong, 4. Devin Toner, 5. Scott Fardy, 6. Sean O’Brien, 7 Josh van der Flier, 8. Jack Conan

16. James Tracy, 17. Jack McGrath, 18. Andrew Porter, 19. James Ryan, 20. Dan Leavy, 21. Jamison Gibson-Park, 22. Ross Byrne, 23. Jordan Larmour

Exeter Chiefs Possible

15 ???? 14 James Short 13 Henry Slade12 Ian Whitten 11 Olly Woodburn 10 Gareth Steenson (capt)
9 Nic White 1 Alec Hepburn 2 Luke Cowan-Dickie 3 Harry Williams 4 Mitch Lees 5 Jonny Hill 6 Don Armand
7 Matt Kvesic 8 Thomas Waldrom

16 Jack Yeandle 17 Ben Moon 18 Tomas Francis 19 Sam Skinner20 Sam Simmonds 21 Will Chudley 22 Sam Hill 23 Jack Nowell

I'll be happy if we finish within 20 points, how are our joke shop players supposed to compete?? Hopefully it will a learning experience for our Lions and Ireland internationals...

Exeter play the game the right way and have threats right across their entire matchday squad. If Leinster manage to pick up a LBP on the road I'd be very happy with that. Exeter have to be odds on for a TBP win which will let them in position to top the group comfortably (maybe even start targetting a high seeding).

The Leinster "fancy Dans" will have to work hard to get a LBP against the mighty Chiefs on Sunday, Dyson might sponsor Bath but its Exeter hoovering up all the talent in the SW.

Weather could be orrid........

CHIEFS SIDE TO FACE LEINSTER

15 Phil Dollman
14 James Short
13 Henry Slade
12 Ian Whitten
11 Olly Woodburn
10 Gareth Steenson (capt)
9 Nic White
1 Alec Hepburn
2 Luke Cowan-Dickie
3 Harry Williams
4 Mitch Lees
5 Jonny Hill
6 Don Armand
7 Matt Kvesic
8 Thomas Waldrom

16 Jack Yeandle
17 Ben Moon
18 Tomas Francis
19 Sam Skinner
20 Sam Simmonds
21 Will Chudley
22 Sam Hill
23 Jack Nowell

Surprised Simmonds doesn't get the start. Such a solid team, can't see them slipping up at home. That bench will do damage.

Leinster Rugby

15. Rob Kearney; 14. Fergus McFadden, 13. Garry Ringrose, 12. Robbie Henshaw, 11. Isa Nacewa; 10. Johnny Sexton, 9. Luke McGrath; 1. Cian Healy, 2. Sean Cronin, 3. Tadhg Furlong, 4. Devin Toner, 5. Scott Fardy, 6. Rhys Ruddock, 7. Sean O'Brien, 8. Jack Conan
16. James Tracy, 17. Jack McGrath, 18. Michael Bent, 19. James Ryan, 20. Josh van der Flier, 21. Jamison Gibson-Park, 22. Ross Byrne, 23. Jordan Larmour

LondonTiger wrote:Leinster Rugby

15. Rob Kearney; 14. Fergus McFadden, 13. Garry Ringrose, 12. Robbie Henshaw, 11. Isa Nacewa; 10. Johnny Sexton, 9. Luke McGrath; 1. Cian Healy, 2. Sean Cronin, 3. Tadhg Furlong, 4. Devin Toner, 5. Scott Fardy, 6. Rhys Ruddock, 7. Sean O'Brien, 8. Jack Conan
16. James Tracy, 17. Jack McGrath, 18. Michael Bent, 19. James Ryan, 20. Josh van der Flier, 21. Jamison Gibson-Park, 22. Ross Byrne, 23. Jordan Larmour

That's the most conservative (boring) and experienced (old) side that Leo could have picked. You get to the game in the season that might go a long way in deciding if it's been a successful year or not, the pressure comes on and Fergus/Rhys come into the starting lineup with Larmour/VDF moving aside. He still gets too much comfort in picking players he played with rather than going with the younger and more inform option.

Rhys is worth his place, but you are right about Fergus.

thebandwagonsociety wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Leinster Rugby

15. Rob Kearney; 14. Fergus McFadden, 13. Garry Ringrose, 12. Robbie Henshaw, 11. Isa Nacewa; 10. Johnny Sexton, 9. Luke McGrath; 1. Cian Healy, 2. Sean Cronin, 3. Tadhg Furlong, 4. Devin Toner, 5. Scott Fardy, 6. Rhys Ruddock, 7. Sean O'Brien, 8. Jack Conan
16. James Tracy, 17. Jack McGrath, 18. Michael Bent, 19. James Ryan, 20. Josh van der Flier, 21. Jamison Gibson-Park, 22. Ross Byrne, 23. Jordan Larmour

That's the most conservative (boring) and experienced (old) side that Leo could have picked.  You get to the game in the season that might go a long way in deciding if it's been a successful year or not, the pressure comes on and Fergus/Rhys come into the starting lineup with Larmour/VDF moving aside. He still gets too much comfort in picking players he played with rather than going with the younger and more inform option.

Rhys is probably the form backrower in the country at the minute, crazy to call that a conservative call. I can see the issue with Ferg but even then I can see the reasoning behind it. Luckily for us Nowell isn't starting.

Just seen the composition of the Leinster squad for the game at Exeter.
I thought this was supposed to be a club competition. Ridiculous.

Leinster somehow get away without a penalty try.

If Leinster were to win I wouldn't have bet on it being by grinding Exeter down. Brutal game but what a performance.

Superb performance by the PRO14 joke shoppers versus the English Champions. Can they repeat that performance next week though? Exeter may do a Northampton at Lansdowne.

Lots to play for still and Montpellier lurking too.

Cracking game. Leinster well worth their win and should win the group if they can back it up next week.

Exeter could still qualify though, they look better than Montpellier and it will be hard to see them losing at home again. They may need to win away at Glasgow though and that may depend a lot on how much Glasgow are willing to commit to that game.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Leinster somehow get away without a penalty try.

Just watching the recording and am struggling to work out how they thought the 'cover' coming across were ever going to catch Nowell - they looked about 5m away and he was about 4m with a straight run to the line - only slowed down when he was taken out by the high tackle ...

I like flatmate as a commentator as he's normally spot on with analysis and understanding but he got it badly wrong on that today. Misunderstood the rule completely.

Heaf wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Leinster somehow get away without a penalty try.

Just watching the recording and am struggling to work out how they thought the 'cover' coming across were ever going to catch Nowell - they looked about 5m away and he was about 4m with a straight run to the line - only slowed down when he was taken out by the high tackle ...

I don't think Poite even considered it. No way the cover would have made it and should have been a penalty try. Reffing error

Recwatcher16 wrote:Just seen the composition of the Leinster squad for the game at Exeter.
I thought this was supposed to be a club competition. Ridiculous.

It is a club competition... spot on Rec.  
And most of those players that you're quite obviously alluding to began their professional rugby careers as Leinster players.  They are true club players in that most of them haven't been bought in from elsewhere like those other teams that prefer to pay big money to create instant success rather than to nurture their own from scratch

So Leinster should be forced to not play many of their own players (that came up through their own ranks) simply because you in England think of them more as 'International' players?
So Leinster should be forced to sell on those players to Saracens, Toulon or indeed Exeter, so that you get to think things less 'ridiculous'?

   Alwiys look on the bright side of life.  

A staggeringly bizarre reaction to a post which was clearly complementing the quality of Leinster's squad.

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:A staggeringly bizarre reaction to a post which was clearly complementing the quality of Leinster's squad.

I know Rec...and I know his methods and ultimately his reasoning. But thanks all the same for the effort at understanding his train of thought.

Very well played Leinster. Clearly the best over the 80 and are more than one dimensional. Not a good weekend for Aviva teams. Think Glasgow might want a bit of revenge in the last game in the group so I think Exeter are out of it unless they can get something in Dublin. Can't see it on evidence of yesterday's match.

SecretFly wrote:

Recwatcher16 wrote:Just seen the composition of the Leinster squad for the game at Exeter.
I thought this was supposed to be a club competition. Ridiculous.

It is a club competition... spot on Rec.  
And most of those players that you're quite obviously alluding to began their professional rugby careers as Leinster players.  They are true club players in that most of them haven't been bought in from elsewhere like those other teams that prefer to pay big money to create instant success rather than to nurture their own from scratch

So Leinster should be forced to not play many of their own players (that came up through their own ranks) simply because you in England think of them more as 'International' players?
So Leinster should be forced to sell on those players to Saracens, Toulon or indeed Exeter, so that you get to think things less 'ridiculous'?

   Alwiys look on the bright side of life.  

That Leinster side must have what....10/12 Pro14 appearances between them?

rosbif wrote:The Leinster "fancy Dans" will have to work hard to get a LBP against the mighty Chiefs on Sunday, Dyson might sponsor Bath but its Exeter hoovering up all the talent in the SW.

Lol. The Aviva premiership is fairly over rated. I think all English sides lost on the weekend except Sarries who didn't play because their game was called off.

TJ wrote:

Heaf wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Leinster somehow get away without a penalty try.

Just watching the recording and am struggling to work out how they thought the 'cover' coming across were ever going to catch Nowell - they looked about 5m away and he was about 4m with a straight run to the line - only slowed down when he was taken out by the high tackle ...

I don't think Poite even considered it.  No way the cover would have made it and should have been a penalty try.  Reffing error

In fairness Poite disallowed two Leinster tries that another ref may have given. On balance a penalty try would have been harsh.

But correct.

No 7&1/2 wrote:But correct.

It would have been equally correct to award both Leinster tries. Such was the degree of interpretation required for each decision.

It isn't possible from the footage to definitively conclude if Sexton's foot was out nor if Toner put the ball down over the line. I have seen very similar tries been given by referees as they do have the power to use their discretion in tight calls. The commentators on BT seemed to think both would be awarded as tries.

Sexton's foot brushed the line so that was correct but Toner looked to have scored.

To not award based on not actually seeing the grounding is ludicrous, benefit of the doubt should go to the attacking side irrespective of the question asked of the TMO.

I'd agree with that overall. It s similar to the umpires call. When tech was brought in they wanted to be seen to still be backing the on field officials hence you get a few examples where we're not getting 100 percent correct decisions but acknowledging it's a close ish call.

Breadvan wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Recwatcher16 wrote:Just seen the composition of the Leinster squad for the game at Exeter.
I thought this was supposed to be a club competition. Ridiculous.

It is a club competition... spot on Rec.  
And most of those players that you're quite obviously alluding to began their professional rugby careers as Leinster players.  They are true club players in that most of them haven't been bought in from elsewhere like those other teams that prefer to pay big money to create instant success rather than to nurture their own from scratch

So Leinster should be forced to not play many of their own players (that came up through their own ranks) simply because you in England think of them more as 'International' players?
So Leinster should be forced to sell on those players to Saracens, Toulon or indeed Exeter, so that you get to think things less 'ridiculous'?

   Alwiys look on the bright side of life.  

That Leinster side must have what....10/12 Pro14 appearances between them?  

Close -
21 appearances in total for the backline;
45 in total for the forwards. Cronin (8) and Conan (9) the most
52 on the bench - with Ross Byrne having played in every Championship game (10) and Euro Cup games (3) - 684 mins on the season clock so far.

rodders wrote:Sexton's foot brushed the line so that was correct but Toner looked to have scored.

To not award based on not actually seeing the grounding is ludicrous, benefit of the doubt should go to the attacking side irrespective of the question asked of the TMO.

The ref's judgement is in the question he asks. 'Try yes or no' means he didn't think it was a try, 'any reason I can't award the try' means he thinks it is a try and want to cover his arse. By the time the ref ran around the pile of bodies there were exeter hands under the ball, so on the pitch he viewed it as held up hence the 'try yes or no' was asked. The TMO then decides to respond to the other question.... that ain't right, and the ref rightly called him out on it.

There was another TMO decision over the weekend when a ball was grounded against the upright. You could see but the ref's bemusement at the TMO decision that he didn't agree with it (the player bobbled the ball on the point of the ball on the ground in picking it up then hits the post a foot up the padding and there is a hazy flapping hand near the ball as the ball comes down to the base of the upright). From the expression on the ref's face it looked so much like he couldn't believe the TMOs interpretation but went with the TMO.

On the game itself, Cronin was right to get a yellow card. It should have been a penalty try.

Sexton's toe touches the line so correct call was made.
Toner grounded the ball (in my opinion) but sometimes those calls don't go your way.

Exeter can't play that badly again. That's probably a once in a season aberation. They could easily walk away with 5 points in Lansdowne this Saturday.

Healy took a no-arms tackle that took him past the horizontal and he landed in a very dangerous position. If that happened out in the back line someone would be cited and not play for a month. Around those tight quarters are going to keep getting more and more reckless until someone gets hurt (badly). [probably for another day but I'm starting to think the same about attacking players pushing/propelling the ball carrier into contact, it's getting to the stage that the player with the ball is no longer stable and is just being launched into the defensive line off-balance, often off their feet and colliding with defenders knees]

I see that James Lowe has now been registered for the European Cup with Ruddock’s injury keeping him out for the time being. As per EPCR regs, Cullen will still have to choose which 2 from 3 Australasians he’ll select for Saturday’s match - Fardy, Gibson-Park or Lowe.

rodders wrote:Sexton's foot brushed the line so that was correct but Toner looked to have scored.

To not award based on not actually seeing the grounding is ludicrous, benefit of the doubt should go to the attacking side irrespective of the question asked of the TMO.

Nonsense. If without cameras the referee would have awarded a try then he asks "Is there any reason not to award the try?" A positive reason has to be found not to award a try.

If in a game without a TMO the referee would not have awarded a try but thinks it possible a try has been scored he asks "Try yes or no?" To suggest that a try should be awarded when the referee thinks no try was scored and the TMO can find no clear evidence that it was is plain daft.

Exiledinborders wrote:

rodders wrote:Sexton's foot brushed the line so that was correct but Toner looked to have scored.

To not award based on not actually seeing the grounding is ludicrous, benefit of the doubt should go to the attacking side irrespective of the question asked of the TMO.

Nonsense.  If without cameras the referee would have awarded a try then he asks "Is there any reason not to award the try?" A positive reason has to be found not to award a try.

If in a game without a TMO the referee would not have awarded a try but thinks it possible a try has been scored he asks "Try yes or no?"  To suggest that a try should be awarded when the referee thinks no try was scored and the TMO can find no clear evidence that it was is plain daft.  

Not if you’re a Leinster fan. We live in a world of positivity, endless possibilities and enablement. Everything is a try unless it is a kick is our motto. Live life, be blue.

Exiledinborders wrote:

rodders wrote:Sexton's foot brushed the line so that was correct but Toner looked to have scored.

To not award based on not actually seeing the grounding is ludicrous, benefit of the doubt should go to the attacking side irrespective of the question asked of the TMO.

Nonsense.  If without cameras the referee would have awarded a try then he asks "Is there any reason not to award the try?" A positive reason has to be found not to award a try.

If in a game without a TMO the referee would not have awarded a try but thinks it possible a try has been scored he asks "Try yes or no?"  To suggest that a try should be awarded when the referee thinks no try was scored and the TMO can find no clear evidence that it was is plain daft.  

Sorry I don't agree with that.

If that is the case then the referee is at fault for asking the wrong question but we can't have the sport descend to a situation where unless the ball is visibly grounded there is no try and the defending team can just block the view of the ball from the official and cameras. Often in the case of a rolling maul the ball can't be seen being grounded.

For Toners try it is simply improbable given the body positions of the players, and the last visual sighting of the ball, that the ball is not grounded, which is why the TMO was happy to award it.

Leinster

15. Rob Kearney
14. Fergus McFadden
13. Garry Ringrose
12. Robbie Henshaw
11. Isa Nacewa (c)
10. Johnny Sexton
9. Luke McGrath
1. Cian Healy
2. Seán Cronin
3. Tadhg Furlong
4. Devin Toner
5. Scott Fardy
6. Seán O’Brien
7. Josh van der Flier
8. Jack Conan

Replacements

16. James Tracy
17. Jack McGrath
18. Andrew Porter
19. James Ryan
20. Dan Leavy
21. Jamison Gibson-Park
22. Ross Byrne
23. Jordan Larmour

Some very young and talented players on the bench, can't wait for this game.

The commentators really seem to be talking up Leinster here. Good side that they are, Exeter cannot be written off so easily.

Sexton off for an HIA after Exeter score. Hope he is ok.

eirebilly wrote:Sexton off for an HIA after Exeter score. Hope he is ok.

Not again. He does seem to get a few too many concussions.

lostinwales wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Sexton off for an HIA after Exeter score. Hope he is ok.

Not again. He does seem to get a few too many concussions.

Its the way he tackles, it simply leaves him prone to the odd clash on the head.

Byrne looks in a bad way after a head clash now. Both 10's for Leinster in trouble.

Not sure how the ref is thinking yellow.

Away from home and Healy gets a red card. Poor cheap shot.

Sexton has failed the HIA, not good news for Leinster.

Poor by the tmo tbf but there doesn't seem to be the desire for too much public disagreement in general.

Yellow was a very poor call - the inconsistency in this area really needs to be looked at. Massive let off for Leinster.

Vardy now with a YC as Exeter score a try. Not often we see that, looks like the ref may be trying to make up for his earlier poor call for the Healy card...

Leinster really getting some rub of the green here with the ref. Should have been a penalty for Exeter there as Kearney did not release... Even BOD thinks so