The Rugby Championship

First topic message reminder :

It starts again tomorrow. As ever the interest will wane quickly if the ABs resume their usual dismantling of all opposition. They look extremely strong with Retallick and Whitelock back in harness. Their strength in depth at 10 is frightening. The Aussies do have Pocock back, but hard to look beyond another comfortable AB win.

Argentina away in SA will be interesting I think. SA look like they are improving and Argentina play some good rugby - one to watch I think.

Hoping that somebody pushes the ABs and an Aussie win tomorrow would be the perfect tonic for the tournament, however unlikely that is.

Taylorman wrote:

ebop wrote:WR are surely having a laugh. Jerome Garces at Twickenham and Wayne Barnes in Dublin. Classic joke by WR.

Yes saw that. Guns thinks it goes against them. Weve lost far mire tests under Barnes than any other ref and garces is no better. We’re over that anyway, barnes did far more for nz rugby than any human in history.

So have Ireland. Barnes also gave Heaslip a red card v NZ. He couldnt wait to get the card out of his pants but very very slow to penalise McCaw lying on the ball on his own line in defense. Barnes is away with the fairies.

Collapse2005 wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

ebop wrote:WR are surely having a laugh. Jerome Garces at Twickenham and Wayne Barnes in Dublin. Classic joke by WR.

Yes saw that. Guns thinks it goes against them. Weve lost far mire tests under Barnes than any other ref and garces is no better. We’re over that anyway, barnes did far more for nz rugby than any human in history.

So have Ireland. Barnes also gave Heaslip a red card v NZ. He couldnt wait to get the card out of his pants but very very slow to penalise McCaw lying on the ball on his own line in defense. Barnes is away with the fairies.

Barnes didnt give him the card, Heaslip gave himself the card, barnes just happened to be the ref. And he admitted he lashed out, kneed McCaw to the head, something he regretted.

And you blame Barnes for that? oky doky then.

Even if McCaw did come in from the side the worst offence was Heaslips.

No I blame Barnes for not reffing the game properly up to that point.

You don’t blame Heaslip for kneeing McCaw in the head with force, just Wayne Barnes?

ebop wrote:You don’t blame Heaslip for kneeing McCaw in the head with force, just Wayne Barnes?

Heaslip reacted stupidly and deserved a red card for stupidity. It is very unclear from the video if he got McCaw in the head (I doubt it) Looks more like the chest or shoulder (not that that matters too much) and not sure how Barnes could see a knee to the head but not notice the Kiwi's lying all over the ball on their own line as Ireland continuously pounded it. That there is the major issue with Barnes, he is massively inconsistent.

Something about Morgan Para

Gooseberry wrote:Something about Morgan Para

Oh of course that was an "accident".

Heaslip kneed McCaw in the head and got a red card. Terrible terrible display of filth. Twice he kneed McCaw in the head.

ebop wrote:Heaslip kneed McCaw in the head and got a red card. Terrible terrible display of filth. Twice he kneed McCaw in the head.

Oh boo hoo. Id feel more sorry for McCaw if

A. he didn't knee Parra in the head and claim it was an accident
B. if "accident" wasn't the Kiwi standard response to their own filthy play; see O'Driscoll 13 month absence from the game; see Henshaw getting stretchered off from a flying headbutt/shoulder charge from Cane. At least Heaslip took ownership for his mistake.

You guys are hilarious.

Biltong wrote:You guys are hilarious.

About as hilarious as an STD

Collapse2005 wrote:

ebop wrote:Heaslip kneed McCaw in the head and got a red card. Terrible terrible display of filth. Twice he kneed McCaw in the head.

Oh boo hoo. Id feel more sorry for McCaw if

A. he didn't knee Parra in the head and claim it was an accident
B. if "accident" wasn't the Kiwi standard response to their own filthy play; see O'Driscoll 13 month absence from the game; see Henshaw getting stretchered off from a flying headbutt/shoulder charge from Cane.

ABs went on to spank Ireland 66-28. Heaslip was a naughty boy that day and Ireland didn’t show much heart after Wayne Barnes sent him packing.

One good aspect of tighter foul play regulations is that we don't have to listen to too many "he's not that sort of player" excuses any more.

Richie McCaw, David Pocock, Schalk Burger, Tana Umaga, Dan Carter etc are all celebrated players who also had incidents when they went too far on the pitch, and weren't punished in the same way as players with worse reputations. I'd happily include an England name but I can't think of too many World Class players we've had who has also been regarded as a paragons of virtue. Wilkinson probably fits the bill, if anyone can remember something bad he did. He does admit in his book that the red mist descended in a club match.

Rugby is a violent game. Top players are usually very well disciplined but it only takes a moment for the competitive spirit to cross the line.

Biltong wrote:You guys are hilarious.

Are you from Capetown Billtong? Heading there in a month. Looking for recommendations.

Rugby Fan wrote:One good aspect of tighter foul play regulations is that we don't have to listen to too many "he's not that sort of player" excuses any more.

Richie McCaw, David Pocock, Schalk Burger, Tana Umaga, Dan Carter etc are all celebrated players who also had incidents when they went too far on the pitch, and weren't punished in the same way as players with worse reputations. I'd happily include an England name but I can't think of too many World Class players we've had who has also been regarded as a paragons of virtue. Wilkinson probably fits the bill, if anyone can remember something bad he did. He does admit in his book that the red mist descended in a club match.

Rugby is a violent game. Top players are usually very well disciplined but it only takes a moment for the competitive spirit to cross the line.

I like the violence part and I can honestly say that I reckon having played a lot of rugby that a bit of dirty play is very hard to avoid when the heart rate is up and most players I have played with including myself have done something you might reflect on as something you aren't completely proud of. What I cant stand is guys who aren't man enough to take ownership for what they did and say things like it was an accident when it obviously wasnt.

Id rather some rough stuff be tolerated in sport than players like footballers diving around fishing for cards if someone grazed them.

Collapse2005 wrote:

Biltong wrote:You guys are hilarious.

Are you from Capetown Billtong? Heading there in a month. Looking for recommendations.

No mate, Johannesburg.

LondonTiger wrote:

Biltong wrote:You guys are hilarious.

About as hilarious as an STD

You really think an std is hilarious?

Maybe if your arch enemy gets it, or maybe your best mate, but never yourself

Biltong wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

Biltong wrote:You guys are hilarious.

About as hilarious as an STD

You really think an std is hilarious?

Maybe if your arch enemy gets it, or maybe your best mate, but never yourself

I think he was being ironic...

Biltong wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

Biltong wrote:You guys are hilarious.

Are you from Capetown Billtong? Heading there in a month. Looking for recommendations.

No mate, Johannesburg.

No worries. First time in SA cant wait.

lostinwales wrote:

Biltong wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

Biltong wrote:You guys are hilarious.

About as hilarious as an STD

You really think an std is hilarious?

Maybe if your arch enemy gets it, or maybe your best mate, but never yourself

I think he was being ironic...

Yeah me too, I clearly failed.

Rugby Fan wrote:One good aspect of tighter foul play regulations is that we don't have to listen to too many "he's not that sort of player" excuses any more.

Richie McCaw, David Pocock, Schalk Burger, Tana Umaga, Dan Carter etc are all celebrated players who also had incidents when they went too far on the pitch, and weren't punished in the same way as players with worse reputations. I'd happily include an England name but I can't think of too many World Class players we've had who has also been regarded as a paragons of virtue. Wilkinson probably fits the bill, if anyone can remember something bad he did. He does admit in his book that the red mist descended in a club match.

Rugby is a violent game. Top players are usually very well disciplined but it only takes a moment for the competitive spirit to cross the line.

Fore arm to Jonathan Thomas at Twickenham in 2008. A very wild swinging arm and caught JT in the face and knocked him out. Very dirty that was.

Biltong wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

Biltong wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

Biltong wrote:You guys are hilarious.

About as hilarious as an STD

You really think an std is hilarious?

Maybe if your arch enemy gets it, or maybe your best mate, but never yourself

I think he was being ironic...

Yeah me too, I clearly failed.

I was probably just being sarcastic.

Mind you, with the state of my sex life, an  STD would indeed be ironically hilarious.

LondonTiger wrote:

Biltong wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

Biltong wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

Biltong wrote:You guys are hilarious.

About as hilarious as an STD

You really think an std is hilarious?

Maybe if your arch enemy gets it, or maybe your best mate, but never yourself

I think he was being ironic...

Yeah me too, I clearly failed.

I was probably just being sarcastic.

Mind you, with the state of my sex life, an  STD would indeed be ironically hilarious.

It would likely be a miracle, unless you never wash your hands

Indeed

Or the result was Trinh Duc came on and nearly won the match for France,talking dirty the gouging of
McCaw.No card,plus the whitewash review should have been red card and ban for life no RWC over
no point in a ban.

Definition of world class?

What’s your definition 7.5?

Given the large number of international rugby players kicking around it needs to be more than just making it into a national team.

So I’d say top 1-3 in position or even top 1-2

I agree ebop.

ebop wrote:What’s your definition 7.5?

Given the large number of international rugby players kicking around it needs to be more than just making it into a national team.

So I’d say top 1-3 in position or even top 1-2

Yeah for me needs to be good enough to make most starting sides. Non ABs in that category...Murray, Sexton, Marx, Pocock, Eben, Creevy...all have shown consistently theyre class at test level over more than one season, and most are matchwinners on occasion.

South African player who has really hit world class form this season in my opinion is Pieter Steph du Toit.

For me the standout player of the RC

Yeah Steph du Toit played great. Think I saw he lead the tackle count in the RC?

Think so yes, his defensive effort was great, but his all round play is what was most impressive

Biltong wrote:South African player who has really hit world class form this season in my opinion is Pieter Steph du Toit.

For me the standout player of the RC

Yes he was great, gets around in the way Burger used to as well. Boks have a formidable back 3 again.

For me Faf de Klerk and Handre Pollard have made the biggest difference to the Boks. They look much more organised with those two guys playing.

Never understood the love for Ezebeth at all. He is an impressive athlete a bit like Spies but like Spies he often makes very little impact IMO.

The Irish prop is playing well too.

Biltong wrote:South African player who has really hit world class form this season in my opinion is Pieter Steph du Toit.

For me the standout player of the RC

He must have really improved in the last two years.

Collapse2005 wrote:For me Faf de Klerk and Handre Pollard have made the biggest difference to the Boks. They look much more organised with those two guys playing.

Never understood the love for Ezebeth at all. He is an impressive athlete a bit like Spies but like Spies he often makes very little impact IMO.

The Irish prop is playing well too.

I myself has never really understood the love for Etzebeth, for me he plays a role very much like Matfield did in the line out, and a bit of Bakkies in the physicality stakes.

He seems akward as a ball carrier, does draw a lot of defenders but never really makes the yards.

Pollard had a poor start the the RC, first few games he was anonymous.

De Klerk was good, energetic and pressured Aaron Smith succesfully.

But for me, the absolute work rate of Di Toit was unparralelled by any other player in the RC.

Kolisi was also impressive at the end of the RC, he is starting to understand the timing issues when to cou ter ruck, when to attack the halfback etc.

Some stats on Pieter Steph du Toit during the RC.

Second only to Kieran Read in number of carries for forwards.

Ninth in line out takes.

First in offloads amongst forwards.

First in tackles won, 83 next best is 72

The abiding memory I think lt holds is youngs having a field day. Kolisi is the guy for me in the back row who is outstanding for you. Him and du toit have worked well together though. Still think it's a bit like england playing with lawes or Itoje at 6 though in that the balance is perhaps a little off.

Biltong wrote:Some stats on Pieter Steph du Toit during the RC.

Second only  to Kieran Read in number of carries for forwards.

Ninth in line out takes.

First in offloads amongst forwards.

First in tackles won, 83 next best is 72

Interesting stats. I must keep a closer eye on him as I didn't notice how good he was.

Biltong wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:For me Faf de Klerk and Handre Pollard have made the biggest difference to the Boks. They look much more organised with those two guys playing.

Never understood the love for Ezebeth at all. He is an impressive athlete a bit like Spies but like Spies he often makes very little impact IMO.

The Irish prop is playing well too.

I myself has never really understood the love for Etzebeth, for me he plays a role very much like Matfield did in the line out, and a bit of Bakkies in the physicality stakes.

He seems akward as a ball carrier, does draw a lot of defenders but never really makes the yards.

Pollard had a poor start the the RC, first few games he was anonymous.

De Klerk was good, energetic and pressured Aaron Smith succesfully.

But for me, the absolute work rate of Di Toit was unparralelled by any other player in the RC.

Kolisi was also impressive at the end of the RC, he is starting to understand the timing issues when to cou ter ruck, when to attack the halfback etc.

I agree, not that effective as a ball carrier. Good team player but not particularly outstanding in any area really IMO.

No 7&1/2 wrote:The abiding memory I think LT holds is youngs having a field day. 

Aye, it is hard to shake off such a poor first impression. On that day he looked too lightweight to ever be a lock, and too cumbersome to ever be a back rower. Of course it was a heavy but slow back row for SA that day with du Toit being asked to assume duties he was not ready for. It woudl appear that his role has been simplified to that of the traditional heavyweight blindside - tackle round the fringes, carry the ball in traffic and appear in the lineout.

The most under rated lock is Sam Whitelock,every one raves about Retalick but Whitelock is the lineout
ace,scrummager,cleans out rucks.etc.
How do you rate Farell ?he`s nowhere near a top 2,10 or 12 for that matter but is Englands top player
and certainly world class in my book.

Best 12 in the world. What's your definition of world class though Alan?

Right - I f**king fed up of this 'World Class' stuff. Everybody is always trying to find an evermore tougher standard for poor rugby players to reach. And when they reach it, the bar is risen again.

So f**k 'World Class' - I'm personally binning the overused term.

From here on in, I'm inventing a replacement title - Elite Class!

And there are only three players in the entire world on it so far.

Yes, the Elite Class, nice work SecretFly. Put them 2nd rate World Class players in their place.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Best 12 in the world

Who, Owen Farrell?

Don’t think so

12 is a position where there probably isn’t a stand out best player. He’s probably the best in England but that’s about where it ends.

That's a few good ones around. But Farrell leading the pack and I was cynical when he was moved there.

If he was leading the pack you’d think fans from other countries would be saying ‘damn, I wish Farrell played for my team’, but there’s none of that 7.5.

Over the last week I've seen fans of other teams say that todd is world class and argue that their countries 5th choice flanker should be starter for a combined ireland wales team.

I'd also say of course it's my opinion. Ask people to name their combined world team and you wouldn't get the same side twice