England - the winter tours thread

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 13 Sep 2018, 8:55 am

First topic message reminder :

After the perfect ending to the summer, with Alastair Cook riding into the sunset with a hundred and James Anderson breaking Glenn McGrath's record to wrap up a 4-1 series win over the #1 side in the world...England head into a brave new world (in a mere 3 weeks time!) post Cook

Tour of Sri Lanka (Oct-Nov)
5 ODI's played between 10th October and 23rd October
1 T20i played on 27th October
3 Test matches played between 6th November and 23rd November

Tour of West Indies (Jan-Mar)
3 Test matches played between 23rd January and 9th February
5 ODI's played between 20th February and 2nd March
3 T20i's played between 5th March and 10th March

As ever there are many rumblings in the media on potential selections ahead of the Sri Lanka tour...

Rory Burns seems set to take Cook's spot
Will Jennings keep his place? Or will a Vince/Denly or complete wildcard be picked to open with him?
Which spinners do England take along with Moeen/Rashid?
Do Anderson/Broad get rested?
What pace options will be taken?

All questions that will be debated and answered in the coming weeks...so I start with a little competition between us selectors on v2...

Name your test squad for the series in Sri Lanka. Whoever gets the nearest to the actual squad, gets a pair of Ed Smith approved sunglasses Cool
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Post by eirebilly on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 8:03 am

Oh dear, I really must stop posting. I am a wicket magnet...
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Post by alfie on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 8:03 am

B.......r ! I've done for Root picard

Or is that a no ball ? Ruled legal...rats . Joe gone for 46 so now it's gingers at both ends...

The left/right combination might upset the bowlers : need another partnership to take advantage of that good lunch position.

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Post by alfie on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 8:08 am

eirebilly wrote:Oh dear, I really must stop posting. I am a wicket magnet...

OK , billy : you can take the blame if you like Smile

Or perhaps we share...

In truth Root got a bit careless there . He will probably be a bit annoyed with himself , although we know he likes to attack...might not have been the % shot.

Stokes close to lbw there : hope he can play himself in.

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Post by eirebilly on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 8:14 am

We will share that one alfie Very Happy

I may be the only one here but I have never really been convinced by Stokes as a test player.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 8:15 am

Alfie's picked up more wickets on this tour than the seamers! Smile
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 8:22 am

Stokes looks all at sea here - poor decision from umpire Gaffaney saves him there off Perera
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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 8:23 am

Well I think we can agree that Bairstow is statistically in the top 10 batsmen who've batted so far in this test.

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Post by alfie on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 8:27 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Alfie's picked up more wickets on this tour than the seamers! Smile

Ah well I've successfully removed one or two Sri Lankan wickets too so not going to feel too guilty Smile

Stokes having his share of good fortune ! Close lbw - and then one that would have been given on review : though I must admit I thought it looked to be going over. I'm sure Dickwella would have been up for it if he hadn't already burned both their chances in the first half hour...

150 up : Bairstow pouncing on anything loose thumbsup

Wonder what is a good score today ? Similar to the last match , I guess.

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Post by guildfordbat on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 8:30 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Two poor dismissals this morning - Burns going back to a good length and Jennings the ball after he’s placed there nurdles one round the corner to short leg

Been catching up on the first session. Yes, bad judgement of the length by Burns and just poor and thoughtless play from Jennings.

For all his promising starts, Burns is so far failing to kick on which is a concern I had before his debut, albeit a deserved opportunity.

5 innings, double figures in 4 of them (even got to 9 when he didn't), top score of 59 in his only fifty and now averaging a touch below 30. To be fair, that's far from disastrous and it's still early days where the few stats might not give a true reflection. However, more will be required if his place is to be cemented.

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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 8:30 am

Only Vince Compton and Root have higher scores batting 3 for England in the last 3 and half year period.
Bairstows making the best of his opportunity.

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Post by alfie on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 8:35 am

Celebrating his escape , Stokes has helped himself to a couple of pies from Sandakan...

Nothing wrong with the run rate today. Would prefer not to lose any more wickets for a while though.

Good toss to win for Lucky Joe...I don't want to play cards with him !

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Post by guildfordbat on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 8:36 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Alfie's picked up more wickets on this tour than the seamers! Smile

Laugh

I'm giving the new cherry to Alfie with Billy bowling the second over from the other end!

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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 8:42 am

guildfordbat wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Two poor dismissals this morning - Burns going back to a good length and Jennings the ball after he’s placed there nurdles one round the corner to short leg

Been catching up on the first session. Yes, bad judgement of the length by Burns and just poor and thoughtless play from Jennings.

For all his promising starts, Burns is so far failing to kick on which is a concern I had before his debut, albeit a deserved opportunity.

5 innings, double figures in 4 of them (even got to 9 when he didn't), top score of 59 in his only fifty and now averaging a touch below 30. To be fair, that's far from disastrous and it's still early days where the few stats might not give a true reflection. However, more will be required if his place is to be cemented.

TBF hes played in low scoring tests and that average puts him on a par or better than every other England opener in the last couple of years.
(insert sly dig at Stoneman)

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Post by alfie on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 8:43 am

guildfordbat wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Two poor dismissals this morning - Burns going back to a good length and Jennings the ball after he’s placed there nurdles one round the corner to short leg

Been catching up on the first session. Yes, bad judgement of the length by Burns and just poor and thoughtless play from Jennings.

For all his promising starts, Burns is so far failing to kick on which is a concern I had before his debut, albeit a deserved opportunity.

5 innings, double figures in 4 of them (even got to 9 when he didn't), top score of 59 in his only fifty and now averaging a touch below 30. To be fair, that's far from disastrous and it's still early days where the few stats might not give a true reflection. However, more will be required if his place is to be cemented.

Yes : a bit Stoneman- like , isn't it ? Early days ; but you'd hope he will go on to a big one soon. Think he's likely inked in for West Indies based on his efforts so far ; but if he's to make next year's Ashes (and hopefully do a job then - against some pretty handy bowling !) you'd want to see a century or two somewhere along he way...
I do like the looks of him but accept that this tour is a world away from facing Starc and Cummins at Lord's. Jury remains out for now.

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Post by LondonTiger on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 8:50 am

Sounds like more bounce in this wicket. Any turn yet?

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Post by eirebilly on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 8:51 am

guildfordbat wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Alfie's picked up more wickets on this tour than the seamers! Smile

Laugh

I'm giving the new cherry to Alfie with Billy bowling the second over from the other end!

Whatever happened to Trebb's, he was the king on here. Has he gone into management? Very Happy
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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 8:55 am

alfie wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Two poor dismissals this morning - Burns going back to a good length and Jennings the ball after he’s placed there nurdles one round the corner to short leg

Been catching up on the first session. Yes, bad judgement of the length by Burns and just poor and thoughtless play from Jennings.

For all his promising starts, Burns is so far failing to kick on which is a concern I had before his debut, albeit a deserved opportunity.

5 innings, double figures in 4 of them (even got to 9 when he didn't), top score of 59 in his only fifty and now averaging a touch below 30. To be fair, that's far from disastrous and it's still early days where the few stats might not give a true reflection. However, more will be required if his place is to be cemented.

Yes : a bit Stoneman- like , isn't it ?   Early days ; but you'd hope he will go on to a big one soon.  Think he's likely inked in for West Indies based on his efforts so far ; but if he's to make next year's Ashes (and hopefully do a job then - against some pretty handy bowling !) you'd want to see a century or two somewhere along he way...
I do like the looks of him but accept that this tour is a world away from facing Starc and Cummins at Lord's. Jury remains out for now.


Its typically England like that in a side with a guy averaging 76 listed as coming in at number 8 and the number 10 having 10 first class centuries to his name; they have one of only 3 players in the side not to have ever scored a test century opening the batting.

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Post by guildfordbat on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 8:57 am

Gooseberry wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Two poor dismissals this morning - Burns going back to a good length and Jennings the ball after he’s placed there nurdles one round the corner to short leg

Been catching up on the first session. Yes, bad judgement of the length by Burns and just poor and thoughtless play from Jennings.

For all his promising starts, Burns is so far failing to kick on which is a concern I had before his debut, albeit a deserved opportunity.

5 innings, double figures in 4 of them (even got to 9 when he didn't), top score of 59 in his only fifty and now averaging a touch below 30. To be fair, that's far from disastrous and it's still early days where the few stats might not give a true reflection. However, more will be required if his place is to be cemented.

TBF hes played in low scoring tests and that average puts him on a par or better than every other England opener in the last couple of years.
(insert sly dig at Stoneman)

Smile clap Neat work with the bracketed reference.

Sure, others in recent times haven't taken the world by storm and there aren't many (? any) knocking the door down.

I think it's absolutely right that Burns be given further opportunity but, like Alfie, believe the jury should remain out. The guys on Sky seem to like him a lot - that's understandable but there may need to come a time where a distinction is made between how he's playing and how he's producing.

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Post by alfie on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 9:01 am

eirebilly wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Alfie's picked up more wickets on this tour than the seamers! Smile

Laugh

I'm giving the new cherry to Alfie with Billy bowling the second over from the other end!

Whatever happened to Trebb's, he was the king on here. Has he gone into management? Very Happy

Haven't seen Trebbs for a fair while - hope he's all right . Has he been on the Rugby board lately ? (By the way congrats to Ireland for the job they did on the ABs : enjoyed that match)

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 9:04 am

Is there nothing Dickwella won't appeal for?
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Post by eirebilly on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 9:07 am

alfie wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Alfie's picked up more wickets on this tour than the seamers! Smile

Laugh

I'm giving the new cherry to Alfie with Billy bowling the second over from the other end!

Whatever happened to Trebb's, he was the king on here. Has he gone into management? Very Happy

Haven't seen Trebbs for a fair while - hope he's all right .  Has he been on the Rugby board lately ? (By the way congrats to Ireland for the job they did on the ABs : enjoyed that match)

Not for a long time chum. Cheers, it was some win Very Happy
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 9:19 am

197-3 at tea - another good session for England there.

Not as much turn as Pallekele initially, but there is a little turn there and some bounce too. Reckon 350 is par, and anything above 400+ would be good
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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 9:31 am

guildfordbat wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Two poor dismissals this morning - Burns going back to a good length and Jennings the ball after he’s placed there nurdles one round the corner to short leg

Been catching up on the first session. Yes, bad judgement of the length by Burns and just poor and thoughtless play from Jennings.

For all his promising starts, Burns is so far failing to kick on which is a concern I had before his debut, albeit a deserved opportunity.

5 innings, double figures in 4 of them (even got to 9 when he didn't), top score of 59 in his only fifty and now averaging a touch below 30. To be fair, that's far from disastrous and it's still early days where the few stats might not give a true reflection. However, more will be required if his place is to be cemented.

TBF hes played in low scoring tests and that average puts him on a par or better than every other England opener in the last couple of years.
(insert sly dig at Stoneman)

Smile clap Neat work with the bracketed reference.

Sure, others in recent times haven't taken the world by storm and there aren't many (? any) knocking the door down.

I think it's absolutely right that Burns be given further opportunity but, like Alfie, believe the jury should remain out. The guys on Sky seem to like him a lot - that's understandable but there may need to come a time where a distinction is made between how he's playing and how he's producing.

Absolutely, but the West Indies games will be a fairer reflection of where hes at. And unless hes has an absolute nightmare he will as a minimum start the home summer on the wickets where he built his case for selection. Not least because, as with jennings keeping his place, theres not really another option on the table.


On the subject of problematic positions Bairstow is now 7 runs short of the highest score by an England 3 in over 2 years, and has as many runs as Moeen scored in his 6 innings combined there.


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Post by alfie on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 9:39 am

Way to early to anoint him as The New Trott ; but Bairstow has certainly made a good start to his mission to establish himself as a number three...

One trouble with this tour is that the conditions are so unlike those in which the Tests against Australia - and even West Indies in the meantime - will be played that it is hard to know how much notice can be taken of performances here with an eye to the future. Would be handy if they were off to India again anytime soon.

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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 9:47 am

alfie wrote:Way to early to anoint him as The New Trott ; but Bairstow has certainly made a good start to his mission to establish himself as a number three...

One trouble with this tour is that the conditions are so unlike those in which the Tests against Australia - and even West Indies in the meantime - will be played that it is hard to know how much notice can be taken of performances here with an eye to the future.  Would be handy if they were off to India again anytime soon.

Yeah Root himself said he quite fancied a pop at them on their home turf again, with an eye to claiming the number one ranking spot again. It would suit them for more than just the number 3 spot. They seem to have found a collective batting approach that works for them against spin, and importantly a balanced trio of spinners who collectively offer a genuine threat rather than the rabble they sent out their last time.

204/3 England are looking pretty strong here, especially with so much batting still to come.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 9:56 am

Stokes has gone from looking like he'd never get a run in his first 15 balls, to playing quite fluently now - a good 50!
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Post by eirebilly on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 9:57 am

Well I am surprised by this, really do not rate Stokes as a test player but he is doing very well indeed.

Not sure what is wrong with Bairstow but if he does get to the ton, he may retire for treatment.
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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 10:02 am

Looks like lighting a fire under Bairstow has given him some motivation. Good on him. And even with reservations about how much this can tell us about what’s to come and the quality of opposition at this stage, if this works out it could be rather big for England

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Post by eirebilly on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 10:07 am

On the BBC live thread, I see they are doing a section on most hated players. KP has been mentioned a few times.

For me, the player I disliked the most has to be Shane Warne. One hell of a bowler but there was something just totally unlikeable about him. Cant put my finger on what it was but it was there. I actually really like him as a pundit now though.
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Post by alfie on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 10:15 am

Hundred for Jonny Yahoo

Reckon that meant a lot to him... Hasn't been easy , heat. , new position , and a touch of cramp ...but he's certainly answered his critics rather emphatically today .
As I said above : early days . But that's the first century from an England number three for a fair while...

Ah but Stokes has gone...after a scratchy start he played some nice shots , a handy knock. England in a good position as the second JB comes in...

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Post by eirebilly on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 10:15 am

Well done Bairstow clap

Oh dear Stokes...
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 10:16 am

Well Jonny has shut the likes of me well and truly up! Smile

Stokes going a bit hard at that one - don't think England will mind seeing that too much - turn and bounce there from Sandakan.

Now hopefully we have a good platform, the lower middle order won't fail when they're not having to rescue us from 80-4...
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Post by eirebilly on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 10:39 am

Cue the collapse...

Pretty sure anything over 300 will be decent on this track.
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Post by alfie on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 10:40 am

Bowlers won't know what's going on ! When's the last time England reached 250 before getting into the "tail" ?

Bairstow unfortunately has gone now missing a real cow-shot...guess his cramp issues were getting to him ; but it's a pity he's got out now as Sri Lanka now have a shot at the out of form Moeen...don't want to let this slip . I think I'd have sent Foakes in ahead of him.

Terrific hand from Bairstow has set things up nicely ; but we want a solid finish...

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Post by eirebilly on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 10:55 am

Ali looks like he could go at any moment.
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Post by alfie on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 10:56 am

Moeen feeling for the ball early...not sure I'd have money on him lasting though I'd love to see him play an innings...
Buttler you'd think should relish this position : in truth it is the sort of situation he was ostensibly brought back into the team to exploit ...though as it happens he's morphed into more of a "steady" batsman , stabilizing wonky innings , since he came back. Opportunity to cut loose here ?...nope : not today as he hits it straight back to Sandakan !

Six down. Need Foakes to weigh in or this could slip away late in he day...

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 10:58 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Well Jonny has shut the likes of me well and truly up! Smile

Stokes going a bit hard at that one - don't think England will mind seeing that too much - turn and bounce there from Sandakan.

Now hopefully we have a good platform, the lower middle order won't fail when they're not having to rescue us from 80-4...

Unused to being 200-3, we've now made sure we end up needing runs from the lower order at 265-6. Reassuring
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Post by alfie on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 11:00 am

That's four for Sandakan now : been a bit expensive but he's taking the wickets his team need ...just as well with Perera having a quiet day.

350 looking a way off yet : no Curran to add the extra runs...and no Burnley Lara Smile

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Post by robbo277 on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 11:10 am

In the past England have often fell 30-3. Sort the top order out, get a number 3 who scores you a century, then fall from 235-3 to 265-6. Still a 30-3 in there, just shifted down the line!

England could do with Moeen delivering here. Not a great tour for him with the bat, if he and Foakes could add 100 it would be the difference between a par score and a very good one.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 11:12 am

Just realised Leach is gonna go from batting at #1 last match, to #11 in this innings. Has that ever happened before?
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Post by alfie on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 11:16 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Just realised Leach is gonna go from batting at #1 last match, to #11 in this innings. Has that ever happened before?

Happened to me a few times , Olly Smile

Not sure about Test Matches though . Night watchmen don't usually open. Wonder if an opener ever got injured during a match and batted last second innings ? One for the stats geeks...

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Post by alfie on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 11:19 am

Like the no-nonsense approach Foakes brings to the crease . No frills ; steady , sensible batting. Good partner for Moeen I think. As Robbo says , could do with another partnership.

New ball taken...

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Post by alfie on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 11:30 am

Moeen dropped at slip ...and then successfully overturns an lbw...

TBH , I thought that was missing leg as soon as I saw it.

But now Foakes is gone ! 292/7...

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Post by alfie on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 11:39 am

Lot of beards on display now as England strive to take this to the close with something in hand for tomorrow...Rashid has played quite well in this series at nine and it would be handy if he could continue to do so now...
Moeen has had some luck already. I prefer him playing strokes ; but he doesn't want to go silly.

300 up. Would like another eighty or so. Possible ; not easy. There is spin there ; so the toss may well prove important again.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 11:54 am

What? That's a no ball surely! And then he's hit it...anyways

Moeen survives again - umpire Ravi may never get a decision right again
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Post by alfie on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 11:57 am

312/7 at the close...with Moeen reviewing another lbw and reprieved by a faint edge !  I thought it was a marginal no ball anyway...

England's day... Though not overwhelmingly as they did fall away late.

But certainly a fine day for YJB thumbsup

The spinners have work to do tomorrow - with bat and ball.  Goodnight all...

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 12:02 pm

I reckon England are well on top here - theres turn and bounce in this pitch already. Not as commanding as it was once looking, but still very good especially if they can get to 350.

A lot of "this is a good pitch" but I think Sri Lanka bowled poorly in the afternoon and Bairstow/Stokes took advantage (and lets not forget Stokes was out for 0, but poor umpiring/no reviews reprieved him - so could easily have been 130-4, as well as Moeen being dropped a couple of times too).

Think this will prove to be a very good 1st innings total
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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 1:20 pm

Having some faith in Englands bowlers and the tails ability to get us to 350 its a strong position for England.

Bairstow head and shoulders the star of the day. For all some tried to rubbish his batting he averages more than Moeen, Stokes, Buttler, Jennings and Burns (not to mention Vince, Stoneman, Westley, Malan, Pope and god knows how many more England rejects).

Moeen won his place back in the squad with the bat, but has been awful with it since his recall. Taken more wickets than anyone else though. Pretty much sums up his career really. If he could get his act together in both disciplines at the same time he'd be a true force.

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Post by guildfordbat on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 1:39 pm

A little disappointing we couldn't end up only 4 or 5 down but still a decent day for England.

I thought Bairstow was ungracious and oversensitive in his post-play interview but, as I posted yesterday, his talking that mattered was in the middle and that was very impressive.

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Post by LondonTiger on Fri 23 Nov 2018, 1:41 pm

Seen a lot of criticism of Bairstow in other places for the way he got out and failing to get a "daddy" ton. Of course that takes no account of the conditions and the amount of time he would have been out there. Not going to look it up, but I do wonder based on where he batted previously whether he has often batted for as long on a single day. To do so in such extreme conditions, and starting to struggle with cramp whilst in the 70s it does seem extremely unfair to be anything than jokingly critical.


A single innings is insufficient to say whether he is the solution to our post Trott problem at 3, but it is a good start. If he is able to temper his technique, having adapted it to standing very legside of the ball to facilitate ODI scoring which caused him issues in the summer tests, for the longer form then there is a chance.

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