November tests general

First topic message reminder :


The list is below. Any predictions as to what might happen?
https://www.autumn-internationals.co.uk/2018/


WEEK 1
Saturday 3rd November 2018

-Japan v New Zealand
Ajinomoto Stadium, Tokyo
Kick off: 5:45am

-Wales v Scotland
Principality Stadium, Cardiff
Kick off: 2:45pm

-England v South Africa
Twickenham Stadium, London
Kick off: 3:00pm

-Ireland v Italy
Soldier Field, Chicago
Kick off: 8:00pm



WEEK 2
Saturday 10th November 2018

-Italy v Georgia
Stadio Artemio Franchi, Florence
Kick off: 2:00pm

-Scotland v Fiji
BT Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
Kick off: 2:30pm

-England v New Zealand
Twickenham Stadium, London
Kick off: 3:00pm

-Wales v Australia
Principality Stadium, Cardiff
Kick off: 5:20pm

-Ireland v Argentina
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
Kick off: 6:30pm

-France v South Africa
Stade de France, Paris
Kick off: 7:45pm



WEEK 3
Saturday 17th November 2018

-Italy v Australia
Stadio Euganeo, Padua
Kick off: 2:00pm

-Wales v Tonga
Principality Stadium, Cardiff
Kick off: 2:30pm

-England v Japan
Twickenham Stadium, London
Kick off: 3:00pm

-Scotland v South Africa
BT Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
Kick off: 5:20pm

-Ireland v New Zealand
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
Kick off: 7:00pm

-France v Argentina
Stade Pierre-Mauroy, Lille
Kick off: 7:45pm



WEEK 4
Saturday 24th November 2018

-Italy v New Zealand
Stadio Olimpico, Rome
Kick off: 2:00pm

-Scotland v Argentina
BT Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
Kick off: 2:30pm

-England v Australia
Twickenham Stadium, London
Kick off: 3:00pm

-Wales v South Africa
Principality Stadium, Cardiff
Kick off: 5:20pm

-Ireland v USA
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
Kick off: 6:30pm

-France v Fiji
Stade de France, Paris
Kick off: 7:45pm



WEEK 5
Saturday 1st December 2018

-Barbarians v Argentina
Twickenham Stadium, London
Kick off: 2:30pm

He wanted to play for Scotland in the end. But yes that's no doubt made a few people more aware of consequences to their actions.
I don't know how much it hampers the wru if it happens.

LordDowlais wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:So anyway how do you think the Wales Barbarians are going to do this November Lord?

Who are the Wales Barbarians ?

Basically the Wales team which you claim is full of poached players and English people.

Collapse2005 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:So anyway how do you think the Wales Barbarians are going to do this November Lord?

Who are the Wales Barbarians ?

Basically the Wales team which you claim is full of poached players and English people.

I asked before, name them.

If you can't, then I suggest you pipe down.

Also, I do not claim anything of the sort.

LordDowlais wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:So anyway how do you think the Wales Barbarians are going to do this November Lord?

Who are the Wales Barbarians ?

Basically the Wales team which you claim is full of poached players and English people.

I asked before, name them.

If you can't, then I suggest you pipe down.

Also, I do not claim anything of the sort.

Yeah you did you said NH sides are guilty of poaching. Does that not include Wales?

How are the Welsh BaBa's gonna get on?

No 7&1/2 wrote:He wanted to play for Scotland in the end.

Only because he was not good enough for Wales. So, that's the remit now ? You are not good enough for your country, ah, who cares, I will go and qualify for another. Is that what you want ? Because I certainly do not want that.

No 7&1/2 wrote:I don't know how much it hampers the wru if it happens.

It hampers because the WRU have less players to call on when it's the U20's World cup or 6N. They have less players to pick from.

Collapse2005 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:So anyway how do you think the Wales Barbarians are going to do this November Lord?

Who are the Wales Barbarians ?

Basically the Wales team which you claim is full of poached players and English people.

I asked before, name them.

If you can't, then I suggest you pipe down.

Also, I do not claim anything of the sort.

Yeah you did you said NH sides are guilty of poaching. Does that not include Wales?

How are the Welsh BaBa's gonna get on?

Yes it does include Wales, but we are not as bad as you are trying to make out.

Go on, name them, I bet I can counter 90% of the names you give.

It's just a development competition so no biggie on youth teams.
The shingler point was that players themselves will now look to not tie themselves to certain teams.

LordDowlais wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:So anyway how do you think the Wales Barbarians are going to do this November Lord?

Who are the Wales Barbarians ?

Basically the Wales team which you claim is full of poached players and English people.

I asked before, name them.

If you can't, then I suggest you pipe down.

Also, I do not claim anything of the sort.

Yeah you did you said NH sides are guilty of poaching. Does that not include Wales?

How are the Welsh BaBa's gonna get on?

Yes it does include Wales, but we are not as bad as you are trying to make out.

Go on, name them, I bet I can counter 90% of the names you give.

I didn't try to make anything out, its your claim. You name them.

Picking players who qualify to play for you isn't bad.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Picking players who qualify to play for you isn't bad.

Though picking players who are not qualified is

Hey if it stops someone pickin up a grand slam its worth it surely.

LordDowlais wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:France isn’t a Home Nation. And no - countries are not all as bad as each other. In some quarters, particularly Tier Two Nations they are greatful for the work opportunities that the French leagues offer. The majority of SH-born players play in France where the teams and the money are.

Collectively, the home nations are worse than France.

Really? What’s your evidence for that assertion?

Pot Hale wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:France isn’t a Home Nation. And no - countries are not all as bad as each other. In some quarters, particularly Tier Two Nations they are greatful for the work opportunities that the French leagues offer. The majority of SH-born players play in France where the teams and the money are.

Collectively, the home nations are worse than France.

Really?  What’s your evidence for that assertion?

Because of Englands number probably.
Anyway. Lets see what we have this weekend. Te’o, a leaguie, Hartley, and Shields for England. Aki for Ireland? As well as the coach. Anscombe for Wales...as well as the coach. Any more?

Soon theyll need to get a haka together.

Taylorman wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:France isn’t a Home Nation. And no - countries are not all as bad as each other. In some quarters, particularly Tier Two Nations they are greatful for the work opportunities that the French leagues offer. The majority of SH-born players play in France where the teams and the money are.

Collectively, the home nations are worse than France.

Really?  What’s your evidence for that assertion?

Because of Englands number probably.
Anyway. Lets see what we have this weekend. Te’o, a leaguie, Hartley, and Shields for England. Aki for Ireland? As well as the coach. Anscombe for Wales...as well as the coach. Any more?

Soon theyll need to get a haka together.

We'll do the haka and New zealand can do the sipi tau

Taylorman wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:France isn’t a Home Nation. And no - countries are not all as bad as each other. In some quarters, particularly Tier Two Nations they are greatful for the work opportunities that the French leagues offer. The majority of SH-born players play in France where the teams and the money are.

Collectively, the home nations are worse than France.

Really?  What’s your evidence for that assertion?

Because of Englands number probably.
Anyway. Lets see what we have this weekend. Te’o, a leaguie, Hartley, and Shields for England. Aki for Ireland? As well as the coach. Anscombe for Wales...as well as the coach. Any more?

Soon theyll need to get a haka together.

A haka together? You do realise that there are separate countries?! What’s with you and others lumping countries together and adding up their totals collectively? LD was doing it with the ‘home nations’ too. It’s like randomly adding up the foreign players in Georgia, Russia, Romania and Spain and saying they’re collectively worse than England. Makes no sense. Look at each country individually, surely?!

P.s. just read that Hadleigh Parkes was poached by South Africa initially before landing in Wales! Didn’t realise. Some trivia for you!

The Oracle wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:France isn’t a Home Nation. And no - countries are not all as bad as each other. In some quarters, particularly Tier Two Nations they are greatful for the work opportunities that the French leagues offer. The majority of SH-born players play in France where the teams and the money are.

Collectively, the home nations are worse than France.

Really?  What’s your evidence for that assertion?

Because of Englands number probably.
Anyway. Lets see what we have this weekend. Te’o, a leaguie, Hartley, and Shields for England. Aki for Ireland? As well as the coach. Anscombe for Wales...as well as the coach. Any more?

Soon theyll need to get a haka together.

A haka together? You do realise that there are separate countries?! What’s with you and others lumping countries together and adding up their totals collectively? LD was doing it with the ‘home nations’ too. It’s like randomly adding up the foreign players in Georgia, Russia, Romania and Spain and saying they’re collectively worse than England. Makes no sense. Look at each country individually, surely?!

I do, and individually tpyoure all taking them from our ‘individual’ country. I dont care who, its all of you.

Taylorman wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:France isn’t a Home Nation. And no - countries are not all as bad as each other. In some quarters, particularly Tier Two Nations they are greatful for the work opportunities that the French leagues offer. The majority of SH-born players play in France where the teams and the money are.

Collectively, the home nations are worse than France.

Really?  What’s your evidence for that assertion?

Because of Englands number probably.
Anyway. Lets see what we have this weekend. Te’o, a leaguie, Hartley, and Shields for England. Aki for Ireland? As well as the coach. Anscombe for Wales...as well as the coach. Any more?

Soon theyll need to get a haka together.

A haka together? You do realise that there are separate countries?! What’s with you and others lumping countries together and adding up their totals collectively? LD was doing it with the ‘home nations’ too. It’s like randomly adding up the foreign players in Georgia, Russia, Romania and Spain and saying they’re collectively worse than England. Makes no sense. Look at each country individually, surely?!

I do, and individually tpyoure all taking them from our ‘individual’ country. I dont care who, its all of you.

And so are you! So we’re all quits. Did you see the Auckland side in the recent cup final? Players from Japan, Canada, Australia, etc. Despicable.

LordDowlais wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Lord conveniently ignores the fact that NZ have the same amount of residency qualified players than Ireland and Australia have more foreign born players than most of the six nations sides including Ireland. Basically has totally fallen for the Kiwi PR machine.

Nope, it's you, who seems to have a very unnatural hatred for anything to do with New Zealand rugby. You cannot even start to be impartial over anything to do with the NZRU.

You can tell by the way you argue with the New Zealand members on here all the time.

Summed it up perfectly

The Oracle wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:France isn’t a Home Nation. And no - countries are not all as bad as each other. In some quarters, particularly Tier Two Nations they are greatful for the work opportunities that the French leagues offer. The majority of SH-born players play in France where the teams and the money are.

Collectively, the home nations are worse than France.

Really?  What’s your evidence for that assertion?

Because of Englands number probably.
Anyway. Lets see what we have this weekend. Te’o, a leaguie, Hartley, and Shields for England. Aki for Ireland? As well as the coach. Anscombe for Wales...as well as the coach. Any more?

Soon theyll need to get a haka together.

A haka together? You do realise that there are separate countries?! What’s with you and others lumping countries together and adding up their totals collectively? LD was doing it with the ‘home nations’ too. It’s like randomly adding up the foreign players in Georgia, Russia, Romania and Spain and saying they’re collectively worse than England. Makes no sense. Look at each country individually, surely?!

I do, and individually tpyoure all taking them from our ‘individual’ country. I dont care who, its all of you.

And so are you! So we’re all quits. Did you see the Auckland side in the recent cup final? Players from Japan, Canada, Australia, etc. Despicable.

Yeah, all on multi million dollar contracts ill bet. Different level pal. Mitre 10 is a level below super rugby and is semi pro. A lot of those guys have real jobs amd tell me.. which world cup winners are in there from canada and japan? I can share the ones your lot have if inhave heaps of time to list them all.

ebop wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Lord conveniently ignores the fact that NZ have the same amount of residency qualified players than Ireland and Australia have more foreign born players than most of the six nations sides including Ireland. Basically has totally fallen for the Kiwi PR machine.

Nope, it's you, who seems to have a very unnatural hatred for anything to do with New Zealand rugby. You cannot even start to be impartial over anything to do with the NZRU.

You can tell by the way you argue with the New Zealand members on here all the time.

Summed it up perfectly

You think he hates them now.? Im look ing forward to the hibernation after next week we always see with chirpers

Think this thread needs to be closed as well.

Taylorman wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:France isn’t a Home Nation. And no - countries are not all as bad as each other. In some quarters, particularly Tier Two Nations they are greatful for the work opportunities that the French leagues offer. The majority of SH-born players play in France where the teams and the money are.

Collectively, the home nations are worse than France.

Really?  What’s your evidence for that assertion?

Because of Englands number probably.
Anyway. Lets see what we have this weekend. Te’o, a leaguie, Hartley, and Shields for England. Aki for Ireland? As well as the coach. Anscombe for Wales...as well as the coach. Any more?

Soon theyll need to get a haka together.

A haka together? You do realise that there are separate countries?! What’s with you and others lumping countries together and adding up their totals collectively? LD was doing it with the ‘home nations’ too. It’s like randomly adding up the foreign players in Georgia, Russia, Romania and Spain and saying they’re collectively worse than England. Makes no sense. Look at each country individually, surely?!

I do, and individually tpyoure all taking them from our ‘individual’ country. I dont care who, its all of you.

And so are you! So we’re all quits. Did you see the Auckland side in the recent cup final? Players from Japan, Canada, Australia, etc. Despicable.

Yeah, all on multi million dollar contracts ill bet. Different level pal. Mitre 10 is a level below super rugby and is semi pro. A lot of those guys have real jobs amd tell me.. which world cup winners are in there from canada and japan? I can share the ones your lot have if inhave heaps of time to list them all.

Remind me which World Cup winners from NZ are in Wales? That’s ‘my lot’. Again, why are you lumping us all together? Shall I just lump you together with Australia and Japan? If so, you lot are the worst of the lot (collectively)!

LordDowlais wrote:OK, so that is why the youngsters from Wales are sometimes encouraged not to play for the U20's then.

Do you agree that it is OK for this to happen ?

I suspect that is more because the existence of the Saxons means a kid can play for the England U20s without committing to a country. If you were in their shoes, why wouldn’t you keep your options open, like Ross Moriarty did?

The Oracle wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:France isn’t a Home Nation. And no - countries are not all as bad as each other. In some quarters, particularly Tier Two Nations they are greatful for the work opportunities that the French leagues offer. The majority of SH-born players play in France where the teams and the money are.

Collectively, the home nations are worse than France.

Really?  What’s your evidence for that assertion?

Because of Englands number probably.
Anyway. Lets see what we have this weekend. Te’o, a leaguie, Hartley, and Shields for England. Aki for Ireland? As well as the coach. Anscombe for Wales...as well as the coach. Any more?

Soon theyll need to get a haka together.

A haka together? You do realise that there are separate countries?! What’s with you and others lumping countries together and adding up their totals collectively? LD was doing it with the ‘home nations’ too. It’s like randomly adding up the foreign players in Georgia, Russia, Romania and Spain and saying they’re collectively worse than England. Makes no sense. Look at each country individually, surely?!

I do, and individually tpyoure all taking them from our ‘individual’ country. I dont care who, its all of you.

And so are you! So we’re all quits. Did you see the Auckland side in the recent cup final? Players from Japan, Canada, Australia, etc. Despicable.

Yeah, all on multi million dollar contracts ill bet. Different level pal. Mitre 10 is a level below super rugby and is semi pro. A lot of those guys have real jobs amd tell me.. which world cup winners are in there from canada and japan? I can share the ones your lot have if inhave heaps of time to list them all.

Remind me which World Cup winners from NZ are in Wales? That’s ‘my lot’. Again, why are you lumping us all together? Shall I just lump you together with Australia and Japan? If so, you lot are the worst of the lot (collectively)!

Australia really does get off easy in these arguments, at one stage last year there were eight, EIGHT! fijians in their squad. I'm pretty sure one of the reason the Drua were allowed play in the NRC was to be able to quickly identify more fijians to be brought over to Aus.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:France isn’t a Home Nation. And no - countries are not all as bad as each other. In some quarters, particularly Tier Two Nations they are greatful for the work opportunities that the French leagues offer. The majority of SH-born players play in France where the teams and the money are.

Collectively, the home nations are worse than France.

Really?  What’s your evidence for that assertion?

Because of Englands number probably.
Anyway. Lets see what we have this weekend. Te’o, a leaguie, Hartley, and Shields for England. Aki for Ireland? As well as the coach. Anscombe for Wales...as well as the coach. Any more?

Soon theyll need to get a haka together.

A haka together? You do realise that there are separate countries?! What’s with you and others lumping countries together and adding up their totals collectively? LD was doing it with the ‘home nations’ too. It’s like randomly adding up the foreign players in Georgia, Russia, Romania and Spain and saying they’re collectively worse than England. Makes no sense. Look at each country individually, surely?!

I do, and individually tpyoure all taking them from our ‘individual’ country. I dont care who, its all of you.

And so are you! So we’re all quits. Did you see the Auckland side in the recent cup final? Players from Japan, Canada, Australia, etc. Despicable.

Yeah, all on multi million dollar contracts ill bet. Different level pal. Mitre 10 is a level below super rugby and is semi pro. A lot of those guys have real jobs amd tell me.. which world cup winners are in there from canada and japan? I can share the ones your lot have if inhave heaps of time to list them all.

Remind me which World Cup winners from NZ are in Wales? That’s ‘my lot’. Again, why are you lumping us all together? Shall I just lump you together with Australia and Japan? If so, you lot are the worst of the lot (collectively)!

Australia really does get off easy in these arguments, at one stage last year there were eight, EIGHT! fijians in their squad. I'm pretty sure one of the reason the Drua were allowed play in the NRC was to be able to quickly identify more fijians to be brought over to Aus.

Yes theyre Pac Island numbers are growing across the board. Theres a fair bit of migration into cites like melbourne and Sydney recently as well. But they too are losing seasoned pro's. They certainly could have done with Adam Ashely Cooper in the last couple of years with their awful midfield issues, so bad that at 34 hes now a World cup option even now.

Pot Hale wrote:Think this thread needs to be closed as well.

No ones being offensive Pot. Theres a difference between a robust debate and posters abusing eachother. You might nit like the way the topic trends but its no reason to close it down...yet.

I'd never close down nothing......................

....................... obviously why I was never offered a Mod job

Incidentally, few Irish lads ever got a Mod job. Racism!!!
They'd talk the offenders to death explaining why they were going to be banned. It'd take two days of posts and then they'd forget that they were banning anyone. Messy.

But SAs..................... they got the balls to be good mods of course. Let's hope he doesn't show. Nobody mention stealing South African players and we'll be grand.

SecretFly wrote:I'd never close down nothing......................

....................... obviously why I was never offered a Mod job

Incidentally, few Irish lads ever got a Mod job.  Racism!!!
They'd talk the offenders to death explaining why they were going to be banned.  It'd take two days of posts and then they'd forget that they were banning anyone.  Messy.

But SAs..................... they got the balls to be good mods of course.  Let's hope he doesn't show.  Nobody mention stealing South African players and we'll be grand.

'Users browsing this forum: BigGee, wayne, Biltong...'

Pot Hale wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:France isn’t a Home Nation. And no - countries are not all as bad as each other. In some quarters, particularly Tier Two Nations they are greatful for the work opportunities that the French leagues offer. The majority of SH-born players play in France where the teams and the money are.

Collectively, the home nations are worse than France.

Really?  What’s your evidence for that assertion?

Curious to know what a home nation actually is Pot. An interesting term I always find

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:France isn’t a Home Nation. And no - countries are not all as bad as each other. In some quarters, particularly Tier Two Nations they are greatful for the work opportunities that the French leagues offer. The majority of SH-born players play in France where the teams and the money are.

Collectively, the home nations are worse than France.

Really?  What’s your evidence for that assertion?

Curious to know what a home nation actually is Pot. An interesting term I always find

Ah yes. D'ye remember on the old Bush and PYE wirelesses back in the day, GeenSVW? If you looked on the dial, or through the little plastic window with the red line that fogged up during the winter until it heated up, and you'd see exotic names like Hilversum, Paris, Luxembourg, Munich, and err...Athlone ... and there right in the middle was BBC Home, right next to BBC Light - never knew why it was called that until years later. The good old days.

Then there's the Home Office of course, run unsurprisingly by the Home Secretary. And of course, there was the Home Counties, for those who liked watercress with their cucumber sandwiches, and further afield, the reliable parts of the empire within the Home Countries or Home Nations (well except for one lot who kept grumbling and eventually picked up their ball and left - kinda, depending on whether you were playing with a round or oval ball).

And so the tradition carries on to this day, where one lot of four home nations come together to create the Lions, and the other lot of four home nations decide to pitch for hosting the World Cup, and then decide to include the other err... unHome, DeHome, exHome Nation.

But rest assured when it counts, you'll be in there, and when it doesn't you'll be in there anyway. Or not. Depending. Sort of.

Hope that explains muchly.

LordDowlais wrote:...What about the ones, that New Zealand have spend a lot of resources on, who go on to represent Tonga/Samoa/Fiji ?

In my opinion, those Island nations would be a lot worse off if it were not for New Zealand...

They would certainly be worse off if the professional leagues in the North didn't offer them employment opportunities. Look at the Pacific Island squads in the last few World Cups (and teams like Russia, Georgia & Romania, for that matter) and the vast majority play professional rugby somewhere in Europe or Japan.

Russia, Samoa, Tonga, Fiji & Georgia will take over 150+ players to Japan next year. How many of those do you think are currently playing Super Rugby/Currie Cup/Mitre 10/NRC? Perhaps a few more than before, with Fijian Drua now in the NRC, but still a very small proportion.

Super Rugby isn't entirely closed to other nations' players but it is a development path for their own national teams, so there's an aversion to players taking up squad space if they aren't qualified.

And yet, at the same time, the union-based model depends heavily on growing the international game. How are these other national sides going to develop if their players don't get access regular top professional competitions?

The same dynamic which gives employment to players from those second tier nations, gives it to players from tier one nations. You can't have one without the other.

Yes all valid points, my main one being the infrastructure that should be there to develop ones own born and bred pkayers is compromised by the proliferation of bringing in talent. Ireland seem to have it best by limiting the numbers but thats still done as an option. They could increase it, they have that luxury.

A large number of the Samoan team are in fact born and bred kiwis so its not as if they dont have a pro league. Its just that we are able to produce more players of international standard that we can give All Black jerseys to. The ones who have played for samoa have no reason to play superxv when they cant be All Blacks. Thats why they all end up overseas, most of the Samoan team play in the NH .

England still produces more than we could ever cap.

No 7&1/2 wrote:England still produces more than we could ever cap.

Aw, poor dabs

No 7&1/2 wrote:England still produces more than we could ever cap.

I guess that's the exact definition of the debate.

Not all Professional Rugby players can or should expect to be able to play International. There is just not enough International teams on the planet to cater for them.

So it's great to be ambitious in life but maybe these roving players are more demanding than ambitious.... maybe they think it's a Right to play International if they want to - regardless of Nation they choose. But of course, it's not a right, only a privilege.

SecretFly wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:England still produces more than we could ever cap.

I guess that's the exact definition of the debate.

Not all Professional Rugby players can or should expect to be able to play International.  There is just not enough International teams on the planet to cater for them.

So it's great to be ambitious in life but maybe these roving players are more demanding than ambitious.... maybe they think it's a Right to play International if they want to - regardless of Nation they choose.  But of course, it's not a right, only a privilege.

Well said SF.

This is probably the best, well put article I have read on the topic, on here, in a long while. I take my hat off to you. Well done.

There's no such thing as "poaching" a player for a test team.

They're either eligible or not. Nobody is forcing a player to play for a country at gunpoint. They want to.

But ‘why’ do they want to?

Do they want to because....

- Why not, I’ve been here 3-5 years so may as well

- Higher profile, more negotiation power, more money from club, want a bit of that action

- £25k per game is nice so I want a bit of that as well

- I really really feel like I’m from this country now after 3-5 years

ebop wrote:But ‘why’ do they want to?

Do they want to because....

- Why not, I’ve been here 3-5 years so may as well

- Higher profile, more negotiation power, more money from club, want a bit of that action

- £25k per game is nice so I want a bit of that as well

- I really really feel like I’m from this country now after 3-5 years

More the final two than the first... but the first too, I'd guess.

So all three, ebop. I'd say the second one is the strongest one.

If we're focusing again on internationals then wanting to test themselves at the highest level would come into it.

ebop wrote:But ‘why’ do they want to?

Do they want to because....

- Why not, I’ve been here 3-5 years so may as well

- Higher profile, more negotiation power, more money from club, want a bit of that action

- £25k per game is nice so I want a bit of that as well

- I really really feel like I’m from this country now after 3-5 years

Why does it matter? All of the reasons, some of the reasons, none of the reasons.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

ebop wrote:But ‘why’ do they want to?

Do they want to because....

- Why not, I’ve been here 3-5 years so may as well

- Higher profile, more negotiation power, more money from club, want a bit of that action

- £25k per game is nice so I want a bit of that as well

- I really really feel like I’m from this country now after 3-5 years

Why does it matter? All of the reasons, some of the reasons, none of the reasons.

Authenticity

No 7&1/2 wrote:If we're focusing again on internationals then wanting to test themselves at the highest level would come into it.

Absolutely - particularly against the nation that didn’t consider them. It’s a badge of pride for some of them.

Oh another is that we haven't just been focusing on residency qualified players. Some have strong family ties.

It's a few more quid for another.

ebop wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

ebop wrote:But ‘why’ do they want to?

Do they want to because....

- Why not, I’ve been here 3-5 years so may as well

- Higher profile, more negotiation power, more money from club, want a bit of that action

- £25k per game is nice so I want a bit of that as well

- I really really feel like I’m from this country now after 3-5 years

Why does it matter? All of the reasons, some of the reasons, none of the reasons.

Authenticity

So you personally want to know the personal choices of each rugby player playing at test level?

Why? I don't get why anybody would be so obsessed with a sportsman's inner decision making like that. Very odd.

It’s recognition of their ability to play at the highest level.

It's also pretty impossible to know the inner reasons for personal choices. For all some quibble that they don't like residency there's others that don't like people qualifying through their parents.