Ongoing NFL Discussion Thread V

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First topic message reminder :

I mean are we even sure Gordon isn't a one year wonder who never stuck around for his drop off season.

A lot of hype for a guy who's had more near comebacks than games played in years

[GSC]

It's great to see QAaron Rodgers lose

[Pr4wn]

Indeed. Watching Kaaron Rodgers lose in the playoffs AGAIN is mighty satisfying.

[JDizzle]

Surely, surely not.

[Duty281]

This has been a mad weekend.

[Duty281]

And the finish to that final game was off-the-wall.

[GSC]

Two great games where neither team could do the basics right

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

That final 13 second drive where the Bills do basically forgot to exist is going to haunt for a long long time

[JDizzle]

Is Sean Payton coach of the Cowboys in 2022 or do they wait till 2023?

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

He actually retired. Wild!

[GSC]

His latest phone must not have Bruce Arians number

[Lowlandbrit]

Big Ben once again outstaged by Brady.

[dummy_half]

Reports of Brady's retirement being rowed back rather now - seems to be a journalist who has very much jumped the gun.

So after very competetive playoff games in the last two rounds, we have the Bengals v the Rams in the Superbowl. Doubt many predicted that at the start of the season - the Rams were always thought to be in the mix, but the Bengals have really come out of nowhere.

Interesting contrast between the teams, with the RAMS having traded for success by signing veterans like Stafford and Von Miller, while the Bengals have made the most of their recent draft picks with Burrow and Chase leading the way.

Got yo fancy the Rams though - the Bengals weakness is pass protection, which is going to be sorely tested by Donald, Miller and the rest of the Rams defensive line.

[crazy_dave23]

Well, those advance rumours have now become fact...

I am happy Brady has retired, because he was rather annoying... but annoyingly good, nothing more malicious than that!

Bengals in the Superbowl is a rather big surprise given what might have been expected, but the Rams far less so. It is quite funny how they have basically just dismissed conventional wisdom that suggests drafting players in early rounds is what you should do!

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Yes the playoffs have been exceptional so far, still can't quite believe Mahomes and the Chiefs collapsed like they did in the 2nd half! Think they'll be kicking themselves, quite the missed opportunity as fancy they'd have liked their chances against the Rams.

Bengals seem to have a little bit of that magic dust on them...I don't think they're the best team in the AFC, but seem to know how to pull these games out when they need too. Can they keep that going for one more game...possible! Donald, Miller and Floyd should absolutely eat against that OL though, so the Bengals D is going to need to have another good game

[Lowlandbrit]

General other stuff:
Washington are now the Commanders
Brian Flores is suing everyone (but mainly the Dolphins and Giants)
Coaching hires:
Bears- Matt Eberflus (Colts DC)
Broncos- Nathaniel Hackett (Packers OC)
Raiders- Josh McDaniels (Patriots OC)
Vikings- Kevin O'Connell (Rams OC) [tbc]
Giants- Brian Daboll (Bills OC)
Jaguars might be hiring Byron Leftwich, but reportedly he wants the GM out first.

[Lowlandbrit]

Jaguars might be hiring Byron Leftwich, but reportedly he wants the GM out first.

Jags ended up hiring Doug Pederson, which might end up being all you need to know about that hire.
Dolphins went for Mike McDaniel (49ers OC)
Saints and Texans both hired their own DC (Dennis Allen and Lovie Smith respectively).

It's always hard to predict how these things will play out (and a lot ends up depending on the roster/QB), but the Giants seem to have done well, and it'll be interesting to see how McDaniels does this time round. Saints and Texans both a bit uninspiring, not really sure why Houston didn't just keep Culley around for another year while they rebuild.

[crazy_dave23]

So the Rams mortgaging their future for a shot at glory has paid off.

The better team on balance over the course of the game, but I think it really turned on preventing the Bengals from getting a second TD in the opening section of the 2nd half. That was a big momentum moment and it was from then on that the Rams defence finally started getting the pressure everyone expected before the game.

[dummy_half]

So the Rams mortgaging their future for a shot at glory has paid off.

The better team on balance over the course of the game, but I think it really turned on preventing the Bengals from getting a second TD in the opening section of the 2nd half. That was a big momentum moment and it was from then on that the Rams defence finally started getting the pressure everyone expected before the game.

It was being said when the Rams signed Stafford that they had a window of 2 or at best 3 years to win the Superbowl. Did it in the first year. Probably pretty much guarantees Stafford's place in the Hall of Fame, as he had the stats but not the wins especially post-season up to this year.

Thinking about this though, because of injuries, the turnover of players through free agency and contract limitations caused by the salary cap, I think most teams could be considered to have a 3 or 4 year shelf life anyway - Cinci currently have Burrow on a rookie contract, so have plenty of salary cap to invest around him, but in a couple of seasons he'll reach the end of that and be looking for the big money (same as Mahomes before this season), which will have an impact on the team that can be built around him - rumours from Kansas suggest that Kelce and/or Tyreek Hill might be looking to move on to find bigger pay days than the Chiefs can afford.

An interesting thing I found out recently is that Brady was never on a big money contract at the Patriots, but realised that success was more likely if there was more money to spend on the rest of the quad - no point having a $100 million a season QB if he's got no effective offensive line.

[GSC]

Brady got paid plenty even if it didn't all hit the cap

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

It all hit the cap in 2020 when we trotted out the corpse of Cam Newton at QB after Tom had seen the state of the roster and thought nah I’m good (rightly so!)

But as GSC said, he got paid - his deal he signed in 2010ish was the biggest in NFL history at the time. The Patriots did well with him and Gronk to sign their deals before other major ones, and thus in the end they looked minor by comparison.

I think Josh Allen’s deal with Buffalo will end up looking like this too

[dummy_half]

I suspect Brady also knew that he could make up anything he wasn't being paid by the Pats from outside sources, especially when they kept winning Superbowls.

Anyway, all on the coaching merry-go-round for now and then the free agency scramble to make all our teams of next year virtually unrecognisable from the teams of this...

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

The Packers are finally coming to London!

[TM Moot]

The Packers are finally coming to London!

[crazy_dave23]

The Packers are finally coming to London!

Years of holding season tickets should hopefully pay off big on this one... not that I havent enjoyed plenty of the other matches I have got the pleasure to see in the interim before the main course!

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Rodgers back in GB as expected for you Packer folk hoping to see them in person!

And, big news is Russell Wilson traded to Denver! Think the Broncos got a very good deal, and not really sure what Seattle is doing tbh

[GSC]

Lots to unpick but honestly the wildest part is the Broncos might have just traded everything to have the third best qb in the division

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

lmao Washington

[JDizzle]

Losing two third round picks and having to play Carson Wentz is surely an elaborate punishment for Dan Snyder. They can’t have done that on their own free will.

[GSC]

Lot of backslaps for Indy managing to dump him. Meanwhile they have currently don't even have a viable starter.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Lot of backslaps for Indy managing to dump him. Meanwhile they have currently don't even have a viable starter.

The media's absolute adoration for Chris Ballard is truly baffling, he must really give them some good stuff under the table story wise. Been there five years now, never won the division (even the Jags have in that time lmao) and has one playoff win in the wildcard round over the Texans. They have no QB, no proper edge rusher or #1 cornerback, only have one receiver of note...
He's not a disaster GM, but he seems to be held up as this bastion of what a GM should be. I don't get it

[dummy_half]

Losing two third round picks and having to play Carson Wentz is surely an elaborate punishment for Dan Snyder. They can’t have done that on their own free will.

That's harsh. Wentz on a good team is a good enough quarterback - remember on the Eagles in their Superbowl year he was a candidate for league MVP until his injury. Admittedly, he hasn't reached those heights since returning, but there are only so many superstar QBs (Mahomes, Rogers, Burrows, Allen maybe Wilson and Stafford), with the other teams having to build around good or good enough starters. Someone is likely to end up with Teddy Bridgewater or Ryan Fitzpatrick as their starters this year, and Wentz is an upgrade on those.

With Brady and Rothlisberger retiring, there are a lot of teams in the QB market, and the suggestion is that the draft class is weak on QBs. Does make Seattle's decision to trade Wilson look even more strangely timed though.

[GSC]

In isolation Wentz is a competent starter, who seems to have gotten over his early career injury issues, but always is one play away from a disaster. Trading for him as a starter alone is not the worst call.

The issue is more Washington giving 2 day 2 picks, moving down in the second and taking on his full cap hit.

Slightly amusing to see people talk about Jimmy G, who is pretty much exactly the same but gets injured more these days

[GSC]

Against the backdrop that the colts wanted to be rid of him and his contract, the notskins gave up a ludicrous amount of assets to not even get the colts to eat some the money.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

The thing with Wentz for me now is two franchises in two years have willingly moved on seemingly because of what he is like behind the scenes and not buying into him as a leader as much as his actual QB play. The one place I would not want someone with that profile is leading the Washington franchise...

[JDizzle]

Losing two third round picks and having to play Carson Wentz is surely an elaborate punishment for Dan Snyder. They can’t have done that on their own free will.

That's harsh. Wentz on a good team is a good enough quarterback - remember on the Eagles in their Superbowl year he was a candidate for league MVP until his injury. Admittedly, he hasn't reached those heights since returning, but there are only so many superstar QBs (Mahomes, Rogers, Burrows, Allen maybe Wilson and Stafford), with the other teams having to build around good or good enough starters. Someone is likely to end up with Teddy Bridgewater or Ryan Fitzpatrick as their starters this year, and Wentz is an upgrade on those.

With Brady and Rothlisberger retiring, there are a lot of teams in the QB market, and the suggestion is that the draft class is weak on QBs. Does make Seattle's decision to trade Wilson look even more strangely timed though.

There are lots of guys knocking about in free agency (Bridgewater, Jameis) who would give you a similar level of play for less of a draft and financial cost. Especially when Washington are not near contending. Wentz hasn’t been good since that one season, where Nick Foles also flamed every too!

I see Schefter is also being a horrible person and the bar for NFL teams to trade for Watson is him literally not going to prison. Not surprising, but still horrifying.

[dummy_half]

I'd take Wentz over Bridgewater any day. Closer with Winston, who looked to be having a good year last year until injury - Jameis has a good arm and some mobility, just throw too many risky passes and so gets picked too often. It's really a question of where their ceiling is, and Wentz has the ceiling of being a playoff QB in an average team, which I don't think Bridgewater is - Jameis Winston could be better than both it he just reigns himself in a bit.

Oh, and I see Brady's retirement lasted all of 40 days, and that he will be back with the Bucs this season. Add him to the list of superstars above.

[crazy_dave23]

Tom channelling his inner Brett Favre and un-retiring...

I feel like he was forced to announce his retirement before thanks to media speculation, and whilst it might have been what he was leaning to at the time, it obviously wasn't really what he wanted!

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Tom channelling his inner Brett Favre and un-retiring...

I feel like he was forced to announce his retirement before thanks to media speculation, and whilst it might have been what he was leaning to at the time, it obviously wasn't really what he wanted!

No I did wonder if he might do this...you're not that driven to play for what like the last 30 years of his life, and can just give that up easily. The fact he didn't even make it to OTAs before unretiring gives some more credence to your thoughts I think Dave!

Unfortunately for us Brady fans, I fancy he may play until he can't - clear now while he still feels like he can play (which he clearly can), he's going to! More than fair enough - why give up doing something you love, if you can still do it...we only get one go around on this rock

[GSC]

Even by NFL standards this is a new low. Watson barely clears the lowest possible bar of not being sent to jail and teams queuing up to give 3 firsts and 230m guaranteed to a guy who still faces 22 civil cases of sexual harassment.

Honestly just groce

[JDizzle]

Even by NFL standards this is a new low. Watson barely clears the lowest possible bar of not being sent to jail and teams queuing up to give 3 firsts and 230m guaranteed to a guy who still faces 22 civil cases of sexual harassment.

Honestly just groce

Just £1m base salary in the first year as they know he is likely to be suspended. It’s a disgrace.

[GSC]

I'm not opposed to second chances but they have to be earned. And part of earning that is facing your accusers or settling the cases.

None of the teams involved (and there was more than 4) even pretended to care about 22 potential victims having their chance to hold Watson to account.

[Lowlandbrit]

Probably going to need a few weeks to get my head around who's starting for who at QB next season.

[Lowlandbrit]

What a crazy and definitely not suspicious coincidence that Brady is returning to the Bucs and Arians is leaving!

[dummy_half]

I'm not opposed to second chances but they have to be earned. And part of earning that is facing your accusers or settling the cases.

None of the teams involved (and there was more than 4) even pretended to care about 22 potential victims having their chance to hold Watson to account.

Probably will need to break it down team by team once we've got through the draft - not supposed to be a good QB crop this year, so still a good chance there'll be another couple of trades for Mayfield and Garropalo.

As a Phins fan I find the signing of Tyreek Hill fascinating - obviously an outstanding deep threat receiver, but to date Tua hasn't shown the arm strength to make the most out of a player like this. Make or break year for the QB.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Draft is fast approaching now - the "draft experts" say it's not a strong draft at the top, and doesn't seem to be much consensus on what teams are going to do as far as I can see, so should be a fun first round!

[twelve283]

How does everyone feel about their teams 1st round?

I don't hate the Patriots pick at all...high athletic score...allowed one sack over 4 years(don't care if it's against FCS competition)...I read that Scar was involved in the evaluations and anytime Scar's involved with the O-line i'm a happy guy.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

How does everyone feel about their teams 1st round?

I don't hate the Patriots pick at all...high athletic score...allowed one sack over 4 years(don't care if it's against FCS competition)...I read that Scar was involved in the evaluations and anytime Scar's involved with the O-line i'm a happy guy.

Yeah not too displeased - managed to move down and gather some extra picks before taking him too. Seems like they've really targeted athleticism this year, which as the Bills playoff game showed, is much needed! Hopefully some of them pan out to be good players

[crazy_dave23]

Ahh look at you Patriots fans... the "experts" tell you that you reached for talents and had a bad draft, but you know better than to doubt old Bill!

(And to be fair, said "experts" also asterisk's their reviews and clarify that Bill tends to get this stuff right)

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Ahh look at you Patriots fans... the "experts" tell you that you reached for talents and had a bad draft, but you know better than to doubt old Bill!

(And to be fair, said "experts" also asterisk's their reviews and clarify that Bill tends to get this stuff right)

The same experts widely gave the Patriots 2019 draft an "A" and look how that turned out

[dummy_half]

As a Fins fan, I've little to say about the draft - only 4 picks, with nothing in the first two rounds. Basically picking players that you hope will make the roster and be useful e.g injury cover or on special teams. Of course there's always the hope that you've found this year's Brady or Richard Sherman in these late rounds...

Always seems foolish to try and grade a draft before players have even taken to the field - everyone had Trevor Lawrence as last year's outstanding QB (although I do remember some suggestion that Kyle Pitts, the TE that went to Detroit may have been the best prospect overall), but in his first year he was clearly outshone by Mac Jones. Really need to wait 2 or 3 seasons to see who has done well.

Have to remember that first overall picks have been as successful as Peyton Manning or as useless as JaMarcus Russell.

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