Dragons Season Thread - 2019/20 aka Year 1 of the new 5 Year Plan

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Post by Stone Motif on Sun 30 Dec 2018, 11:19 pm

First topic message reminder :

RiscaGame wrote:A good win for Dragons. Wonder if George North might get banned this week for more shethousery. Guy is turning into a dirty get down there.

Wasn’t too convinced by the subs we made, but they turned out to be wise choices. That includes Tovey steadying the ship and kicking the winner and surprisingly Suter being solid in the scrum.
It's an amazing win given the Ospreys dominance. If they'd have made the right calls our luck would have run out I think.
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Post by The Oracle on Mon 14 Jan 2019, 11:49 am

Ceri Jones being given the reigns until the end of the season.  I'm happy for him on a personal note (I went to school with him, although didn't know him that well).  However, I have mixed feelings about what it implies.  On the one hand this will, as Buttress alludes to, allow more time for a proper search and recruitment process.  Jones and his team seem to have steadied the ship and plugged the leaky defence a bit so it is perhaps reward for Jones and his team and we may end up with a few more wins in the bag by the end of the season.  Plus, no relegation to worry about.  However, as pointed out by some posters on the Argus site if we have had a load of interest and applications from 'world class' coaches why are we not going for them now and keeping them hanging on.  If they're that good they'll be snapped up elsewhere if we're not careful.  Smoke and mirrors perhaps?  Maybe there haven't actually been any stand out or world class applicants at all so far?!  Project Reset could be playing a part too I guess.  Could the WRU be holding off to see what happens?  They wouldn't be keen to install a costly 'world class' coach now if next season the Dragons end up being a development region or, worst case, no region at all.
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Post by munkian on Mon 14 Jan 2019, 12:58 pm

Its almost certainly waiting to see what 'project reset' brings for the region - from the region's point of view and from the view of any potential coaches.

The region doesn't know what salary it can offer and the new coach won't know what budget and resources he has to work with.
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Post by The Oracle on Mon 14 Jan 2019, 1:08 pm

Yeah, fair points Munkian. It's a mess isn't it? Must be playing on players' minds too, and those who were hoping to re-sign might have an eye on the door now in case they're not offered another deal. I appreciate that will happen at all clubs and with all players re-signing but the outcomes are a bit more dramatic at the dragons (i.e. potentially being downgraded to a lesser club or being moved or closed altogether, or whatever). Not good. Same for players we'd potentially like to sign. If their agents have been contacted then they'll be unlikely to agree to anything and we may end up losing them.
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Post by RiscaGame on Mon 14 Jan 2019, 2:05 pm

I wouldn’t be surprised if Ceri gets it full time. To be honest, given what we went through for 18 months, it wouldn’t be the worst thing.

It will be an interesting few months.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 14 Jan 2019, 6:53 pm

Ceri was always going to get the job this season. Hopefully we don’t do an Ospreys and sign him on for 3 years after doing a ‘world class’ search, even though Ceri is the better coach. I feel if we are to go anywhere then we require an injection of cash to spend on a proven, more experience coach, as well as signings in the positions I’ve alluded to. Then, if we can keep Ceri on as forwards coach to reward him for his commitment and performance, great.

If we’re downgraded then I just don’t see how that helps team Wales or the development of welsh rugby. There are a number of WQ and NWQ as well as coaches who could be brought in to turn the chaos around. The WRU have always maintained a 50% owensrship, so I see most of our misfortune as their fault, and now they might run us into the ground over it.

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Post by PhilBB on Tue 15 Jan 2019, 10:27 am

mikey_dragon wrote:Ceri was always going to get the job this season. Hopefully we don’t do an Ospreys and sign him on for 3 years after doing a ‘world class’ search, even though Ceri is the better coach. I feel if we are to go anywhere then we require an injection of cash to spend on a proven, more experience coach, as well as signings in the positions I’ve alluded to. Then, if we can keep Ceri on as forwards coach to reward him for his commitment and performance, great.

If we’re downgraded then I just don’t see how that helps team Wales or the development of welsh rugby. There are a number of WQ and NWQ as well as coaches who could be brought in to turn the chaos around. The WRU have always maintained a 50% owensrship, so I see most of our misfortune as their fault, and now they might run us into the ground over it.

You genuinely don't see how it would be better for "Team Wales" to see Dee, Wainwright, Hill, Amos, Moriarty and Morgan playing in a better environment?

Genuinely?
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Post by Stone Motif on Tue 15 Jan 2019, 11:51 am

https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/17358672.season-over-for-dragons-prop-aaron-jarvis-after-hamstring-tear/

FFS. Another one who was just starting to prove a useful signing.
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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Tue 15 Jan 2019, 11:56 am

And it's particularly cruel timing for him with Clermont visiting on Friday.

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Post by RiscaGame on Tue 15 Jan 2019, 7:31 pm

Awful luck. He would probably have moved above Fairbrother in the pecking order, but for this.

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Post by Stone Motif on Tue 15 Jan 2019, 9:12 pm

RiscaGame wrote:Awful luck. He would probably have moved above Fairbrother in the pecking order, but for this.
Tighthead is not a good position to be down to the bare bones in, better hope the Cornish Elbow doesn't get injured
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Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 16 Jan 2019, 4:14 am

PhilBB wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Ceri was always going to get the job this season. Hopefully we don’t do an Ospreys and sign him on for 3 years after doing a ‘world class’ search, even though Ceri is the better coach. I feel if we are to go anywhere then we require an injection of cash to spend on a proven, more experience coach, as well as signings in the positions I’ve alluded to. Then, if we can keep Ceri on as forwards coach to reward him for his commitment and performance, great.

If we’re downgraded then I just don’t see how that helps team Wales or the development of welsh rugby. There are a number of WQ and NWQ as well as coaches who could be brought in to turn the chaos around. The WRU have always maintained a 50% owensrship, so I see most of our misfortune as their fault, and now they might run us into the ground over it.

You genuinely don't see how it would be better for "Team Wales" to see Dee, Wainwright, Hill, Amos, Moriarty and Morgan playing in a better environment?

Genuinely?

Does team Wales count as a better environment seeing as they are now regulars? Which they achieved by coming through at, and playing for the Dragons. We hear this BS often. Faletau gained every high honour a Wales player could get and this was when he was playing for the Dragons. Somehow we were still told by certain factions that he should go elsewhere to improve; now that Faletau has gone elsewhere he’s stagnated and always injured, possibly gone backwards. So again yeah, I genuinely believe what I’m saying about this squad if things go the way I want them to. If you genuinely disagree with the facts then I guess you’re also genuinely full of BS.

Ps, another fine weekend of Mulvihill showing he’s well out of this depth and you still believing everything is fine and rosy Rolling Eyes

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Post by PhilBB on Wed 16 Jan 2019, 10:33 am

mikey_dragon wrote:

Does team Wales count as a better environment seeing as they are now regulars? Which they achieved by coming through at, and playing for the Dragons. We hear this BS often. Faletau gained every high honour a Wales player could get and this was when he was playing for the Dragons. Somehow we were still told by certain factions that he should go elsewhere to improve; now that Faletau has gone elsewhere he’s stagnated and always injured, possibly gone backwards. So again yeah, I genuinely believe what I’m saying about this squad if things go the way I want them to. If you genuinely disagree with the facts then I guess you’re also genuinely full of BS.

Ps, another fine weekend of Mulvihill showing he’s well out of this depth and you still believing everything is fine and rosy Rolling Eyes

Team Wales is only a few weeks of the year but, yes, it does count as a better environment. If you note that better environments improve players, you'll not be able to state a case for them remaining at the Dragons.

If you want to think that a talent like Faletau is the "norm" then so be it. But for every Faletau, there's a Brown, a Dee, an Amos, a Morgan who haven't progressed as quickly as some would have expected.

The idea that Faletau has stagnated or that his arm wouldn't have broken had he stayed in Newport is just desperate thinking.

If Mulvihill is well out of his depth at Cardiff then all you're doing is praising Cardiff.

I think that you're a real victim of the misunderstanding over correlation and causation. However, if you think that the best environment for really good young talent is a club that can't win away from home, can barely win at home and has the lowest budget for professional rugby in Europe, then you truly are an idiot.
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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 17 Jan 2019, 12:29 am

Well it’s perfectly natural that any or most players would improve in their international teams....

Phil the rest of your post doesn’t make much sense, only made worse when you try and sweep facts under the rug because you have a hard time with the truth. Also the players mentioned have struggled with injury a lot, and aren’t progressing quicker or slower than anyone else to my knowledge, but again this is just another part of your odd post.

I always stated that Mulvihill wasn’t good enough for the roll and I’m proven to be right almost every week, not sure how I’m praising anyone with that.

...then you’ve ignored or not read what I’ve been saying in my previous posts, or reading something that nobody has said. Go WUM on the Cardiff thread, that’s probably the only place you’re wanted.

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Post by munkian on Thu 17 Jan 2019, 8:02 am

mikey_dragon wrote:Well it’s perfectly natural that any or most players would improve in their international teams....

Phil the rest of your post doesn’t make much sense, only made worse when you try and sweep facts under the rug because you have a hard time with the truth. Also the players mentioned have struggled with injury a lot, and aren’t progressing quicker or slower than anyone else to my knowledge, but again this is just another part of your odd post.

I always stated that Mulvihill wasn’t good enough for the roll and I’m proven to be right almost every week, not sure how I’m praising anyone with that.

...then you’ve ignored or not read what I’ve been saying in my previous posts, or reading something that nobody has said. Go WUM on the Cardiff thread, that’s probably the only place you’re wanted.

As much as a racist Uncle at a Wedding...
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Post by PhilBB on Thu 17 Jan 2019, 8:50 am

mikey_dragon wrote:Well it’s perfectly natural that any or most players would improve in their international teams....

Phil the rest of your post doesn’t make much sense, only made worse when you try and sweep facts under the rug because you have a hard time with the truth. Also the players mentioned have struggled with injury a lot, and aren’t progressing quicker or slower than anyone else to my knowledge, but again this is just another part of your odd post.

I always stated that Mulvihill wasn’t good enough for the roll and I’m proven to be right almost every week, not sure how I’m praising anyone with that.

...then you’ve ignored or not read what I’ve been saying in my previous posts, or reading something that nobody has said. Go WUM on the Cardiff thread, that’s probably the only place you’re wanted.

So if you agree that players improve in better environments you have then lost the argument for suggesting players stay with the Dragons.

The rest of your post is just rhetoric.
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Post by PhilBB on Thu 17 Jan 2019, 9:07 am

munkian wrote:
As much as a racist Uncle at a Wedding...

Love you too, Dave.
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Post by munkian on Thu 17 Jan 2019, 11:05 am

PhilBB wrote:
munkian wrote:
As much as a racist Uncle at a Wedding...

Love you too, Dave.

Hug
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Post by RiscaGame on Thu 17 Jan 2019, 12:16 pm

Dragons: Z Kirchner, J Rosser, A Warren, J Sage, H Amos, J Tovey, R Williams, B Harris, R Hibbard (captain), L Fairbrother, J Davies, M Screech, H Keddie, A Wainwright, O Griffiths. Replacements: R Lawrence, D Suter, C Coleman, H Taylor, J Benjamin, R Davies, J Lewis, J Williams.

Clermont: N Abendanon, P Betham, G Moala, A Naqalevu, R Grosso, P Fernandez, C Cassang, B Kakabadze, B Kayser, S Falatea, P Jedrasiak, F Van der Merwe, J Ruaud, A Fischer, D Chouly (captain). Replacements: Y Beheregaray, L Uhila, M Simutoga, J van Tonder, M Lemardelet, K Viallard, D Lavernhe, T Vili

Dragons by 18 Wink

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Post by RiscaGame on Thu 17 Jan 2019, 12:18 pm

Surprised to see Tovey start over Lewis a little. Maybe wouldn’t have thrown Brok straight in, but maybe needs must. You could argue it’s our first choice backline, so it will be interesting to see how we go.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Thu 17 Jan 2019, 12:25 pm

Once again, it's a much stronger side than we've been able to put out in previous years, even without some of our Test players. The bench is a bit ropey in places though. Fortunately Clermont are resting a few....

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Post by Stone Motif on Thu 17 Jan 2019, 3:26 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Once again, it's a much stronger side than we've been able to put out in previous years, even without some of our Test players. The bench is a bit ropey in places though. Fortunately Clermont are resting a few....
More than a few there playing for their futures you'd guess
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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 17 Jan 2019, 9:13 pm

PhilBB wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Well it’s perfectly natural that any or most players would improve in their international teams....

Phil the rest of your post doesn’t make much sense, only made worse when you try and sweep facts under the rug because you have a hard time with the truth. Also the players mentioned have struggled with injury a lot, and aren’t progressing quicker or slower than anyone else to my knowledge, but again this is just another part of your odd post.

I always stated that Mulvihill wasn’t good enough for the roll and I’m proven to be right almost every week, not sure how I’m praising anyone with that.

...then you’ve ignored or not read what I’ve been saying in my previous posts, or reading something that nobody has said. Go WUM on the Cardiff thread, that’s probably the only place you’re wanted.

So if you agree that players improve in better environments you have then lost the argument for suggesting players stay with the Dragons.

The rest of your post is just rhetoric.

Again you’ve overlooked or not understood my previous posts (before the one you decided to pick out). I guess club teams, and especially Cardiff are now obsolete then. Another post by Phil presenting an argument that makes sense to nobody but him, but at least he can tell himself he won the internet. I think I’ll join ‘put Phil on ignore club’. Ta-ra.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 17 Jan 2019, 9:16 pm

RiscaGame wrote:Dragons: Z Kirchner, J Rosser, A Warren, J Sage, H Amos, J Tovey, R Williams, B Harris, R Hibbard (captain), L Fairbrother, J Davies, M Screech, H Keddie, A Wainwright, O Griffiths. Replacements: R Lawrence, D Suter, C Coleman, H Taylor, J Benjamin, R Davies, J Lewis, J Williams.

Clermont: N Abendanon, P Betham, G Moala, A Naqalevu, R Grosso, P Fernandez, C Cassang, B Kakabadze, B Kayser, S Falatea, P Jedrasiak, F Van der Merwe, J Ruaud, A Fischer, D Chouly (captain). Replacements: Y Beheregaray, L Uhila, M Simutoga, J van Tonder, M Lemardelet, K Viallard, D Lavernhe, T Vili

Dragons by 18 Wink

Joe Davies vs Flip Van der Merwe...

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Post by Stone Motif on Fri 18 Jan 2019, 5:12 pm

Lovely night for it
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Post by RiscaGame on Fri 18 Jan 2019, 11:13 pm

That atmosphere just further rubbed it in that I couldn’t go away to Clermont. I thought the band would do my head in, but they were great.

I really don’t know why we didn’t resort to taking three points, when our lineout was wobbling. I know the game had gone, but we should’ve used it to prepare for next week. I suspect we won’t be kicking for the corner all the time v Munster, so I would rather go through our normal routine when a kick is kickable.

Changes next week will probably be Lewis in at ten and maybe at least one change in the centre. I am not convinced by Sage defensively still. Warren was pretty off colour tonight, but then we were pretty over powered. It’s a lesson for our players though, how hard they carry and not from a standing start. It would also help if we didn’t go high constantly. Never mind trying to strip or block offloads, just take your man down.

Anyway, given the budgets and the side they were able to field even minus their internationals, their team was incredible. Obviously ours without our internationals is not.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 18 Jan 2019, 11:17 pm

Ceri surely not keeping this role...

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Post by The Oracle on Sun 20 Jan 2019, 7:39 am

How come the back rowers were all (arguably) out of position? Would have thought the more natural positions would have been 6. Wainright, 7. Griffiths, 8. Keddie. They’re all talented guys so can play elsewhere but I’m not sure chopping and changing all the time is the best approach. Or was it a typo on the team sheet?
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Post by Stone Motif on Sun 20 Jan 2019, 10:55 am

The Oracle wrote:How come the back rowers were all (arguably) out of position? Would have thought the more natural positions would have been 6. Wainright, 7. Griffiths, 8. Keddie. They’re all talented guys so can play elsewhere but I’m not sure chopping and changing all the time is the best approach. Or was it a typo on the team sheet?
I'd go Wainwright 8 Griffiths 7 Keddie 6
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Post by RiscaGame on Fri 25 Jan 2019, 12:09 pm

Changes everywhere. 7 for us (I think) and 13 for them from last week. Lump the mortgage on a home win Wink

Dragons: J Williams, J Rosser, T Morgan, J Dixon, W Talbot-Davies; J Lewis, R Williams; B Harris, R Hibbard (captain), L Fairbrother, J Davies, M Screech, H Keddie, N Cudd, O Griffiths. Replacements: R Lawrence, R Fawcett, D Suter, L Evans, T Basham, R Davies, J Tovey, Z Kirchner.

Munster: Mike Haley; Darren Sweetnam, Dan Goggin, Tyler Bleyendaal (C), Ronan O’Mahony; Bill Johnston, Alby Mathewson; Jeremy Loughman, Rhys Marshall, Stephen Archer; Jean Kleyn, Billy Holland; Fineen Wycherley, Conor Oliver, Arno Botha.

Replacements: Kevin O’Byrne, Liam O’Connor, Ciaran Parker, Darren O’Shea, Gavin Coombes, Neil Cronin, Calvin Nash, Jaco Taute.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Fri 25 Jan 2019, 12:13 pm

Matthew Screech made 25 tackles against Clermont apparently, the most of any player in that round. Fair play to him.

Are Warren and / or Sage injured?


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Post by RiscaGame on Fri 25 Jan 2019, 12:32 pm

Warren is apparently (foot according to Argus).

I have nothing firm to back this up, but it seems like the centres come in pairs, so when Morgan starts so does Dixon (and obviously Warren and Sage).

I see Dixon as better defensively anyway. Both are pretty limited attackers. I don’t really see what Jackman and Jones see in Sage, if I’m honest.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Fri 25 Jan 2019, 3:32 pm

I thought Warren and Sage were a decent centre pairing in the first two Christmas derby games, although maybe more in defence than attack.

Warren and Sage sounds like an organic whole foods company. Or a company selling overly expensive 'boutique' toiletries.

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Post by RiscaGame on Fri 25 Jan 2019, 3:39 pm

I am a big fan of Warren, even after last week ha. I don’t know why I don’t like Sage. He did run a cracking line for his try in Cardiff though, fair play.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Fri 25 Jan 2019, 3:45 pm

That was all about the pass Wink

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Post by RiscaGame on Fri 25 Jan 2019, 6:36 pm

Well of course, but I can’t be biased all the time Very Happy

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Post by Stone Motif on Fri 25 Jan 2019, 7:41 pm

RiscaGame wrote:Warren is apparently (foot according to Argus).

I have nothing firm to back this up, but it seems like the centres come in pairs, so when Morgan starts so does Dixon (and obviously Warren and Sage).

I see Dixon as better defensively anyway. Both are pretty limited attackers. I don’t really see what Jackman and Jones see in Sage, if I’m honest.

Hard to judge any of them really in attack, that fails in the front five
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Post by RiscaGame on Fri 25 Jan 2019, 10:46 pm

Yeah, fair point. Still, I’m sure we will shunt Munster around tomorrow ha.

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Post by Pot Hale on Sat 26 Jan 2019, 3:30 pm

Dragons should get another win on the board with the way Munster are playing. Abysmal doesn’t come close.
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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 26 Jan 2019, 3:50 pm

Ollie Griffiths is awesome.

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Post by Eejit on Sat 26 Jan 2019, 4:39 pm

There's life in this game yet. How bloody big is that Munster lock, O'Shea. He looks enormous.

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Post by The Oracle on Sat 26 Jan 2019, 4:59 pm

Close, but no cigar Sad
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Post by RiscaGame on Sat 26 Jan 2019, 5:07 pm

I am surprised we didn’t make one halfback change. It seemed like we didn’t make many changes at all.

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Post by Stone Motif on Sat 26 Jan 2019, 5:13 pm

RiscaGame wrote:I am surprised we didn’t make one halfback change. It seemed like we didn’t make many changes at all.

I'm not. Replacements: R Lawrence, R Fawcett, D Suter, L Evans, T Basham, R Davies, J Tovey, Z Kirchner.
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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 26 Jan 2019, 6:55 pm

Need a ref who knows the breakdown laws. I’m tired of us being on the receiving end of the league trying out these new refs. Give them a Munster v Leinster game as they’d have little impact with that many good players on display. Despite the commentary talking up Adams he’s still very flakey, and didn’t he miss a kick in front of the posts...

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Post by The Oracle on Sat 26 Jan 2019, 9:12 pm

I’m a fan of a bit of self-deprecating humour and just stumbled on this today on Twitter. Simple but effective reporting of Dragons results!

https://twitter.com/diddragonslose

Very Happy
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Post by RiscaGame on Sun 27 Jan 2019, 1:22 am

Stone Motif wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:I am surprised we didn’t make one halfback change. It seemed like we didn’t make many changes at all.

I'm not. Replacements: R Lawrence, R Fawcett, D Suter, L Evans, T Basham, R Davies, J Tovey, Z Kirchner.

Depends really. Suter has been worthy of more minutes than he is probably entitled to, so probably should’ve come on. Lewis Evans is seen as the second row extraordinaire and so definitely could’ve done a 20 min shift. Basham might’ve done more than Cudd, when we were chasing a game for a while. Rhodri got criticised again, Lewis fluffed a very kickable penalty and Kirchner was the starting 15 in the derbies.

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Post by RiscaGame on Sun 27 Jan 2019, 1:24 am

The Oracle wrote:I’m a fan of a bit of self-deprecating humour and just stumbled on this today on Twitter. Simple but effective reporting of Dragons results!

https://twitter.com/diddragonslose

Very Happy

It’s a funny page, but it annoys me when they give up on us early and I’m trying to believe Wink

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Post by RiscaGame on Sun 27 Jan 2019, 5:51 pm

Having now read the match report and the five things in the Argus, it seems a lot of the criticism of the halfbacks was unjust, so clearly there was no need for changes really. I should know better than trusting the Dragons supporters FB group Wink

There was also a fair bit of ref bashing, but it seems that his decisions were actually correct. I think the only gripe Ceri really had was something that happened to Talbot-Davies?

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Post by carpet baboon on Sun 27 Jan 2019, 7:02 pm

Hello all.
Don't know if any of you would be interested but Jackman was on the 42s weekly podcast this week.
He spoke highly of all involved in the dragon's but the one thing that stood out seemed to be that he believes that things that were promised for the rebuilding/restructuring of the club were now being withdrawn from the powers that be.
Was he appointed before or after the WRU took charge?

Also I understand that he's not going to go on and say he was rubbish and deserved the sack, and also parts of the interview seemed like he was advertising his availability and looking for a job.
But found it interesting

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Post by munkian on Mon 28 Jan 2019, 7:47 am

carpet baboon wrote:Hello all.
Don't know if any of you would be interested but Jackman was on the 42s weekly podcast this week.
He spoke highly of all involved in the dragon's but the one thing that stood out seemed to be that he believes that things that were promised for the rebuilding/restructuring of the club were now being withdrawn from the powers that be.
Was he appointed before or after the WRU took charge?

Also I understand that he's not going to go on and say he was rubbish and deserved the sack, and also parts of the interview seemed like he was advertising his availability and looking for a job.
But found it interesting

He came on Gatland's recommendation so I'd say it as WRU endorsed.

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