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Post by carpet baboon on Fri 12 Jul 2019, 12:00 pm

First topic message reminder :

Bit early i know.
Will update squads etc once they are announced.
And add the fixtures when I get a spare 10 mins.

Will Addison has been called up to the training squad


Last edited by carpet baboon on Wed 28 Aug 2019, 4:24 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 10 Sep 2019, 4:50 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
rodders wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Earls has had a good year in my view and a good addition to the squad. I suspect that he might be covering the left wing in case Stockdale gets injured as there is no one else with experience playing there.

I agree and it fits my suspicion that Ringrose will be in the 23 shirt for the big games rather than Larmour or Conway, with Aki and Henshaw the starting centers.

Ringrose has played on the right wing a couple of times now, Earls can shift across to cover 11 and Robbie will cover fullback.

Yeah you might be right. To be fair Aki and Henshaw work really well together. However, we are really lucky to have Farrell and Ringrose as back up centres, those guys are real talents.

According to the Irish Times Schmidt keeps referring to Ringrose as "versatile" meaning he will be consigned to the bench. O'Driscoll in a recent interview backed this view up by saying his defense has gone backwards and Henshaw and Aki are the definite first teamers right now.

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Post by lostinwales on Tue 10 Sep 2019, 5:08 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Balls travel further on a humid day as the air is less dense. I expect the likes of SA and NZ to kick the leather off the ball if it is humid.

Hard to tell what it will be like though.

Quick attack of the day job...

This kind of works because the molecular weight of water is less than that of other components of air and a given body of air has the same number of moles. However the actual moisture content will be in the order of 3-5% at maximum humidity and therefore won't make a significant difference.

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Post by rodders on Tue 10 Sep 2019, 5:21 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
rodders wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Earls has had a good year in my view and a good addition to the squad. I suspect that he might be covering the left wing in case Stockdale gets injured as there is no one else with experience playing there.

I agree and it fits my suspicion that Ringrose will be in the 23 shirt for the big games rather than Larmour or Conway, with Aki and Henshaw the starting centers.

Ringrose has played on the right wing a couple of times now, Earls can shift across to cover 11 and Robbie will cover fullback.

Yeah you might be right. To be fair Aki and Henshaw work really well together. However, we are really lucky to have Farrell and Ringrose as back up centres, those guys are real talents.

Yeah I saw that, I think it's harsh on Ringrose but maybe Schmidt and Farrell prefer a bit more physicality. I also think they are trying to get all 3 into the 23, the Robbie at XV didn't go so well in the 6N.

I think they may be thinking of starting Kleyn ahead of Henderson as well.

The back row will be interesting, I think VDF has to start. So it looks like Stander, POM and Conan battling for the other spots.
According to the Irish Times Schmidt keeps referring to Ringrose as "versatile" meaning he will be consigned to the bench. O'Driscoll in a recent interview backed this view up by saying his defense has gone backwards and Henshaw and Aki are the definite first teamers right now.


Last edited by rodders on Wed 11 Sep 2019, 10:18 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Fix quotes)
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Post by rodders on Tue 10 Sep 2019, 5:23 pm

lostinwales wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Balls travel further on a humid day as the air is less dense. I expect the likes of SA and NZ to kick the leather off the ball if it is humid.

Hard to tell what it will be like though.

Quick attack of the day job...

This kind of works because the molecular weight of water is less than that of other components of air and a given body of air has the same number of moles. However the actual moisture content will be in the order of 3-5% at maximum humidity and therefore won't make a significant difference.

Glad we got to the bottom of that one.
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Post by lostinwales on Tue 10 Sep 2019, 5:36 pm

rodders wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Balls travel further on a humid day as the air is less dense. I expect the likes of SA and NZ to kick the leather off the ball if it is humid.

Hard to tell what it will be like though.

Quick attack of the day job...

This kind of works because the molecular weight of water is less than that of other components of air and a given body of air has the same number of moles. However the actual moisture content will be in the order of 3-5% at maximum humidity and therefore won't make a significant difference.

Glad we got to the bottom of that one.

makes a change from LD telling us about the latest in carpet technology

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Post by The Oracle on Tue 10 Sep 2019, 5:56 pm

lostinwales wrote:
rodders wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Balls travel further on a humid day as the air is less dense. I expect the likes of SA and NZ to kick the leather off the ball if it is humid.

Hard to tell what it will be like though.

Quick attack of the day job...

This kind of works because the molecular weight of water is less than that of other components of air and a given body of air has the same number of moles. However the actual moisture content will be in the order of 3-5% at maximum humidity and therefore won't make a significant difference.

Glad we got to the bottom of that one.

makes a change from LD telling us about the latest in carpet technology

Which he’s never done, has he?
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Post by Taylorman on Tue 10 Sep 2019, 7:03 pm

The Oracle wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:ABs wont win the RWC, someone will knock them out. Possibly Ireland or England.

Thats what I love about this site, a well balanced, fact based argument with a solid conclusion. Well said thumbsup



Is it even possible to provide fact and a solid conclusion about a future prediction?!  Headscratch

Hmm, I’d better ask the Oracle...no wait, I mean... laughing

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Post by Taylorman on Tue 10 Sep 2019, 7:07 pm

40 degrees for the ABs run yesterday.

Luckily our guys prepared beforehand for the heat...they hung around in saunas a lot in NZ. laughing

No expense spared this time around. Whistle

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Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 10 Sep 2019, 7:18 pm

What part of Japan was that? Are you sure it wasnt more like 30 degrees?

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Post by Rugby Fan on Tue 10 Sep 2019, 8:05 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:What part of Japan was that? Are you sure it wasnt more like 30 degrees?
No, he's right. we've had high 30s in Tokyo. Higher than you'd normally get at this time of year. Other parts of Japan have been hotter still.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 10 Sep 2019, 8:59 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:What part of Japan was that? Are you sure it wasnt more like 30 degrees?
No, he's right. we've had high 30s in Tokyo. Higher than you'd normally get at this time of year. Other parts of Japan have been hotter still.

First time for everything I suppose

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Post by Taylorman on Tue 10 Sep 2019, 9:47 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
Rugby Fan wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:What part of Japan was that? Are you sure it wasnt more like 30 degrees?
No, he's right. we've had high 30s in Tokyo. Higher than you'd normally get at this time of year. Other parts of Japan have been hotter still.

First time for everything I suppose

True, a milestone for me.
Good news though, hopefully grounds are going to be hard and fast and for a side that's gone all out on the mobility stakes, best we can hope for.

Thats been the experience of the Super rugby sides though they havent played this time of the year. Still thin Hansens done his homework there, ties in with the AB visit last year.

Fitness is going to be key. And I dont meet pick yourself up and go again fitness, I mean keeping the senses right out there on the edge from a handling, accuracy point of view.

Weather permitting, this touraments going to be fast, which always means lots of tries.

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Post by Cyril on Tue 10 Sep 2019, 9:50 pm

This hot weather and hard tracks will not be good for the likes of Ireland and their attritional style. Interesting times. Still, there’s time for rain to level it out.

In a country like Japan I’m sure it will vary, making it interesting.

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Post by Taylorman on Tue 10 Sep 2019, 9:54 pm

Yes apparently there's an issue with the track having just been laid for the Abs first match vs SA. Hope we dont get a repeat of that Millenium mess.

Wingers especially will need to be able to turn and chase on a dime as wide chips and kicks are placed their way. It'll suit the Barretts of this game down to the ground...hopefully

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Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 10 Sep 2019, 10:17 pm

Cyril wrote:This hot weather and hard tracks will not be good for the likes of Ireland and their attritional style. Interesting times. Still, there’s time for rain to level it out.

In a country like Japan I’m sure it will vary, making it interesting.

Oh yeah because English players are so much more used to the sun Cyril laughing

I still dont think the weather will be too much a factor

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Post by Taylorman on Tue 10 Sep 2019, 10:18 pm

Cyril wrote:This hot weather and hard tracks will not be good for the likes of Ireland and their attritional style. Interesting times. Still, there’s time for rain to level it out.

In a country like Japan I’m sure it will vary, making it interesting.

It'll suit the PI sides especially, oz and NZ, perhaps Wales, Scotland.

SA, England not as much and not Ireland who have a very structured setup and average outside attacking backplay.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 10 Sep 2019, 10:23 pm

It was a very dry sunny day last November when the ABs lost to Ireland, perfect for running rugby. Nice theory Taylorman, wrong though. Anyone know how many tries NZ scored that day?

You do know that the top try scoring back of the last two years scored a try against NZ that day dont you?

Rain suits NZ more these days, thats why they beat Oz in the rain in Bledisloe 2 and got pumped in the sunshine in the prequel.

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Post by Taylorman on Tue 10 Sep 2019, 11:10 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:It was a very dry sunny day last November when the ABs lost to Ireland, perfect for running rugby. Nice theory Taylorman, wrong though. Anyone know how many tries NZ scored that day?

You do know that the top try scoring back of the last two years scored a try against NZ that day dont you?

Rain suits NZ more these days, thats why they beat Oz in the rain in Bledisloe 2 and got pumped in the sunshine in the prequel.

For the umpteenth million time, an AI match in Dublin in November...is NOT the world cup.

AB's did not have to win that as though their entire reputation is on the line.

You can dismiss the ABs on a fast track but you will be very (very) alone on that one. How one can even look at the AB attack and say they're a wet weather side is beyond me. You have a disconnect that simply won't allow you to see the obvious sometimes.

It was also a dry track when England put 57 on Ireland only weeks ago. Shall we write off Ireland completely on that basis? No one else in the hunt has been beaten by that much this year.

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Post by Rugby Fan on Tue 10 Sep 2019, 11:26 pm

It's humid out here, and if it stays that way for the early matches, then the ball will be wet, and the ground won't necessarily be dry and hard. Tokyo just had rain with the typhoon, and parts of Japan will see more showers later this week.


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Post by Cyril on Tue 10 Sep 2019, 11:36 pm

Rugby Fan, are you in Japan now?

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Post by Rugby Fan on Tue 10 Sep 2019, 11:37 pm

Cyril wrote:Rugby Fan, are you in Japan now?
I live here! (Japan, that is)

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Post by Cyril on Wed 11 Sep 2019, 12:07 am

Ah, brilliant! I didn’t realise we had someone there on the forum. Lucky you (to live in such a beautiful country and be there for the World Cup). Very envious on both counts.

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Post by Taylorman on Wed 11 Sep 2019, 12:20 am

Cyril wrote:Ah, brilliant! I didn’t realise we had someone there on the forum. Lucky you (to live in such a beautiful country and be there for the World Cup). Very envious on both counts.

True, looks like its going to be a great tournament, and a refreshing change of venue...

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Post by Pie on Wed 11 Sep 2019, 4:59 am

Rugby Fan wrote:
Cyril wrote:Rugby Fan, are you in Japan now?
I live here! (Japan, that is)

Are you an English teacher?

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Post by Rugby Fan on Wed 11 Sep 2019, 5:22 am

Pie wrote:
Rugby Fan wrote:
Cyril wrote:Rugby Fan, are you in Japan now?
I live here! (Japan, that is)

Are you an English teacher?
I don't think I'd have the patience for it.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Wed 11 Sep 2019, 7:10 am

Taylorman wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:It was a very dry sunny day last November when the ABs lost to Ireland, perfect for running rugby. Nice theory Taylorman, wrong though. Anyone know how many tries NZ scored that day?

You do know that the top try scoring back of the last two years scored a try against NZ that day dont you?

Rain suits NZ more these days, thats why they beat Oz in the rain in Bledisloe 2 and got pumped in the sunshine in the prequel.

For the umpteenth million time, an AI match in Dublin in November...is NOT the world cup.

AB's did not have to win that as though their entire reputation is on the line.

You can dismiss the ABs on a fast track but you will be very (very) alone on that one. How one can even look at the AB attack and say they're a wet weather side is beyond me. You have a disconnect that simply won't allow you to see the obvious sometimes.

It was also a dry track when England put 57 on Ireland only weeks ago. Shall we write off Ireland completely on that basis? No one else in the hunt has been beaten by that much this year.

Stop making excuses Taylorman. You said the exact same thing before the game in November. Its dry so NZ will have a field day. NZ lose and then miraculously it doesnt count. picard

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Post by rodders on Wed 11 Sep 2019, 10:26 am

Rugby Fan wrote:It's humid out here, and if it stays that way for the early matches, then the ball will be wet, and the ground won't necessarily be dry and hard. Tokyo just had rain with the typhoon, and parts of Japan will see more showers later this week.

So if that is the case then it will suit the side who can best control territory and force the opposition to play from deep, a side that is strong at contesting kicks and has a good scrum? A side like....
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Post by Taylorman on Wed 11 Sep 2019, 11:29 am

Collapse2005 wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:It was a very dry sunny day last November when the ABs lost to Ireland, perfect for running rugby. Nice theory Taylorman, wrong though. Anyone know how many tries NZ scored that day?

You do know that the top try scoring back of the last two years scored a try against NZ that day dont you?

Rain suits NZ more these days, thats why they beat Oz in the rain in Bledisloe 2 and got pumped in the sunshine in the prequel.

For the umpteenth million time, an AI match in Dublin in November...is NOT the world cup.

AB's did not have to win that as though their entire reputation is on the line.

You can dismiss the ABs on a fast track but you will be very (very) alone on that one. How one can even look at the AB attack and say they're a wet weather side is beyond me. You have a disconnect that simply won't allow you to see the obvious sometimes.

It was also a dry track when England put 57 on Ireland only weeks ago. Shall we write off Ireland completely on that basis? No one else in the hunt has been beaten by that much this year.

Stop making excuses Taylorman. You said the exact same thing before the game in November. Its dry so NZ will have a field day. NZ lose and then miraculously it doesnt count. picard

Really, all I recall is you failing to back your side vs the ABs. Wonder if the same will happen this year. Seems there’s less reason to back them now.

Yes I would have backed our side because we always do. And are almost always right. That’s how it works. So one loss doesn’t necessarily lead to another as you are suggesting. But I certainly didn’t say the Irish match equates to a World Cup one, as you seem to be inferring here.
Teams also beat NZ before both last world cups. That didn’t mean anything either. And they had won world cups...twice each in fact.

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Post by Taylorman on Wed 11 Sep 2019, 11:33 am

Rugby Fan wrote:It's humid out here, and if it stays that way for the early matches, then the ball will be wet, and the ground won't necessarily be dry and hard. Tokyo just had rain with the typhoon, and parts of Japan will see more showers later this week.

Well that will be interesting. Don’t think I’ve seen matches where the ball is consistently ‘wet’ and the ground soft through humidity alone.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Wed 11 Sep 2019, 12:20 pm

Taylorman wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:It was a very dry sunny day last November when the ABs lost to Ireland, perfect for running rugby. Nice theory Taylorman, wrong though. Anyone know how many tries NZ scored that day?

You do know that the top try scoring back of the last two years scored a try against NZ that day dont you?

Rain suits NZ more these days, thats why they beat Oz in the rain in Bledisloe 2 and got pumped in the sunshine in the prequel.

For the umpteenth million time, an AI match in Dublin in November...is NOT the world cup.

AB's did not have to win that as though their entire reputation is on the line.

You can dismiss the ABs on a fast track but you will be very (very) alone on that one. How one can even look at the AB attack and say they're a wet weather side is beyond me. You have a disconnect that simply won't allow you to see the obvious sometimes.

It was also a dry track when England put 57 on Ireland only weeks ago. Shall we write off Ireland completely on that basis? No one else in the hunt has been beaten by that much this year.

Stop making excuses Taylorman. You said the exact same thing before the game in November. Its dry so NZ will have a field day. NZ lose and then miraculously it doesnt count. picard

Really, all I recall is you failing to back your side vs the ABs. Wonder if the same will happen this year. Seems there’s less reason to back them now.

Yes I would have backed our side because we always do. And are almost always right. That’s how it works. So one loss doesn’t necessarily lead to another as you are suggesting. But I certainly didn’t say the Irish match equates to a World Cup one, as you seem to be inferring here.
Teams also beat NZ before both last world cups. That didn’t mean anything either. And they had won world cups...twice each in fact.

Taylorman, I've no issue with NZ record of overturning defeats and so on. Im sure they will be favorites if they play Ireland in the quarters.

I disagree about the claim that dry weather wont suit the Ireland side as they have shown on various occasions that they can get big wins in both wet and dry conditions. If anything it could be the heat that would get to them but not really a dry hard pitch. Although NZ are moving from their winter to the end of the Japanese summer so Im sure that will also require some adjustment.

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Post by Taylorman on Wed 11 Sep 2019, 6:54 pm

Yes it will require adjustment, but a very welcome one. It’s a source of frustration that we have to play much of our rugby on softer grounds because our style is built for anything but. To move to consistently firm grounds at the peak end of the season is just what they need.

Word is they’re loving it and two weeks to acclimatise is just the time they need to settle in. Selecting a mobile side is making more and more sense. They want to score tries, and lots of them.

I think Hansen is going all out on mobility, as the single biggest point of difference is the ABs skill levels on attack, which on a per head basis are far ahead of the other sides in terms of passing and handling, reading the attack, beating the man etc etc. The sides are all levelling out now not just because of the southern depletion but because of the huge emphasis on defence,

Ireland is considered no. 1 but they couldnt, and havent come from 10 behind with 20 to go against any of the top five sides, and probably have the worst backline attack of them all.. That confirms tight, controlling heavily defensive gameplans are dominating.

In 2019 Wales have the least tries per match, 1.9 over 9 tests. Next worst are Oz and Ireland, at 3, Boks are at 4 and England and NZ just over 5. Try scoring is generally poor this year, and even those averages are inflated due to a couple of blowouts, particularly NZ and England.

Its a huge risk but I wouldnt want it any other way. Watching sides forever scrap over crumbs is boring, and once again, someone needs to point that out. Let the skills do the talking, not the negative delusions of grandeur.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Wed 11 Sep 2019, 10:06 pm

Who cares if Ireland cant win from 10 down they win most of their games and generally lead most games. Ireland have also never won a match when its been a full moon on the first day of the first month in a leap year.

Also the try stats are completely meaningless given the rugby championship games were basically world cup warm up matches and everyone has had different matches with varying levels of competition. Most of NZ tries were in 1 game, big deal. Their RC average was a poor 2.3 tries per game. Wow. Call the engraver, might as well put NZs name on the trophy already.

Also Ireland seem to have very little trouble scoring tries v NZ. Does that mean NZ have a bad defense or is their attack better than you want to admit.

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Post by Taylorman on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 5:48 am

Yes very little trouble. One. In the entire last two matches, at home, in Dublin. Three halves where they didn’t do anything apparently. And one of them was one of their best results, ever. (The no try one)

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Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 9:04 am

What I will say is that Ireland do not go wide as much as other sides but that is not because they do not have good backs. Murray and Sexton on form are as good as it gets in world rugby. Centres are strong, Henshaw and Aki with Farrell and Ringrose as backup is formidable. On the wing Stockdale is one of if not the top try scoring wingers in world rugby in the last couple of years and Conway and Earls also have good records. Kearney tends to have a fairly technical role than being an attacker. However, by and large backs are very good.

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 9:21 am

That's Ireland, the only tier 1 side that can win a game of rugby without playing the game of rugby (the version the purists talk about - even Gatland has become a sneering 'purist' after his years of battletank Warrenball rugby Wink )

But I'm not even joking.  I'm serious.  The only tier 1 side that can play stagnant middle ground, slow-to-standstill rugby and still win a Tier 1 v Tier 1 game.  None of the rest of them can chance it, would try it, have enough faith in their players to master it, trust it or are able to pull it off with the same repetitiveness as Ireland. Any of the rest of them get too slow and they know they become sitting ducks, they get afraid of themselves..., they feel naked.  

Scotland have to play a game fast enough to even spook themselves in the hope that it's fast enough to spook the opposition.
NZ, when they've done enough toying around to sometimes pretend they're knackered in the pool stages, turn on the afterburners to get the job done.
Wales, Australia, England, Argentina, all versions of the same brand - release the backs! - release the backs!!!! Oh God please release the backs.  Offload, offload, offload!  Run, run, run... RUN damn you!

France and SA, well haven't really seen enough of those two in recent times to make a judgement on what they can do... but by all accounts SA is now a slick beast too - slick in the run/offload/release department or the grind-'em-down attritional department?

Anyway, so yeah - to date Ireland can't live with purist rugby at its sizzliest but there they are -  top ranked side based on wins against top ranked sides.

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 9:21 am

Collapse2005 wrote:What I will say is that Ireland do not go wide as much as other sides but that is not because they do not have good backs. Murray and Sexton on form are as good as it gets in world rugby. Centres are strong, Henshaw and Aki with Farrell and Ringrose as backup is formidable. On the wing Stockdale is one of if not the top try scoring wingers in world rugby in the last couple of years and Conway and Earls also have good records. Kearney tends to have a fairly technical role than being an attacker. However, by and large backs are very good.

OK

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Post by rodders on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 9:56 am

I'm in the middle a bit with this, I do feel out of the top 5-6 sides Ireland have the least potent outside backs, particularly if you take Farrell, Stockdale and Aki out. We have other good players but they are the only 3 I really feel can consistently beat good defenders off first phase ball.

Part of the issue I think though, as per Guns comments, is Kearney doesn't join the attacking line or create from the back the way a lot of the other full backs do. If we had the likes of Addison or Carbury at the back we would create a bit more space but it's just not how Schmidt wants to play it.

I expect we will see some more attacking moves deployed in the RWC, there is no doubt at least against Wales we didn't want to show too much hence the forwards bashing at the Welsh line for the last 20 minutes rather than mixing it up.
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Post by The Oracle on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 10:00 am

Ireland have very dangerous backs at the moment. But.........

Stringer/O’Leary, O’Gara, Darcy, O’Driscoll, Horgan, Kearney, Murphy & Bowe. Around 2008/2009? Those were some backs you could call on. Used to love wathcing those guys, when not against Wales Wink

How do you think they measure up vs today’s available backs?
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Post by rodders on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 10:13 am

It is hard to compare era's, the game is much more physical and defense orientated.

I think our best back line was under EOS up until 2007, when Darcy, BOD, Horgan, Murphy etc. were at their peaks.

That said I think we have much better options and depth now, we're just maybe lacking a bit of the raw pace or mercurial skills to create something from nothing.

A fully fit Addison or if James Lowe or Zebo were available, it would have gave us a bit more options.
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Post by SecretFly on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 10:48 am

Zebo - over rated.  Good but the eulogies about what he could give Ireland since leaving? Overdone.
Murphy - over rated (in an Irish shirt anyway - or at least after the leg break) very hesitant and nervy player, much less effective than even bonecruncher collision expert Kearney.î
O'Driscoll - not gone on him as a pundit.  A genius as a player though, and not just for his attack drive but maybe even more so in his heroic defensive shifts.
O'Gara - yep he wasn't everybody's perfect 10 but for the game he played, he was a perfect 10 - good at kicking for points, drop goals and best of all, the torturous kicking for territory on a dime
Horgan, glorious big bullock of a man who despite some awkwardness in his early years and some delicious butter-fingered gaffs with the ball, became totemic in the raging runs for the line.  But, think he's met his match and then some in Stockdale.  Time will tell.
Bowe - for me good but..... overrated.  People kept telling me he was great in the air but I kept seeing him knock more balls on from his extended fingering than he captured.  
O'Leary - workmanlike
D'arcy - early years on a par with ODriscoll as a unit, then kinda drifted off that level whilst O'Driscoll kept the quality up
Stringer - if I were coach, I'd still find a place for him on the plane to Japan.  He's small, he wouldn't take up much room, but he packed a punch as 9.  For me, despite his size, still the best 9 we've had.  Nobody could control the drive, tempo and ambition of an Irish pack like he could - a charioteer to rival Ben Hur.

Disclaimer: This is merely the personal opinion of SF based on a quick run through of the memory banks Wink

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Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 11:07 am

Oh yeah I forgot about Larmor who was nominated as world young player of the year last year too is fairly attack minded and a decent player. He was also robbed the award as Dyantyi subsequently tested positive for drugs. I think he should be stripped of the award and Larmor or Karl T given in retrospectively.

Interesting that of the three nominees Larmor is the only one going to the RWC.

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Post by rodders on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 11:26 am

SecretFly wrote:
Bowe - for me good but..... overrated.  People kept telling me he was great in the air but I kept seeing him knock more balls on from his extended fingering than he captured.

Ah come on from 2008 - 2011 he was one of the best wingers in the NH. Apart from Drico no one in the modern era produced more big game winning tries for us.  

He was great in the air but it was his ability to come in field and pick lines through the middle that set him apart, at his peak he was unstoppable.
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Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 11:27 am

rodders wrote:It is hard to compare era's, the game is much more physical and defense orientated.

I think our best back line was under EOS up until 2007, when Darcy, BOD, Horgan, Murphy etc. were at their peaks.

That said I think we have much better options and depth now, we're just maybe lacking a bit of the raw pace or mercurial skills to create something from nothing.

A fully fit Addison or if James Lowe or Zebo were available, it would have gave us a bit more options.  

Yeah Zebo would be a good guy to have in this squad to be fair. I also would have selected Addison.

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Post by rodders on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 11:28 am

Collapse2005 wrote:
rodders wrote:It is hard to compare era's, the game is much more physical and defense orientated.

I think our best back line was under EOS up until 2007, when Darcy, BOD, Horgan, Murphy etc. were at their peaks.

That said I think we have much better options and depth now, we're just maybe lacking a bit of the raw pace or mercurial skills to create something from nothing.

A fully fit Addison or if James Lowe or Zebo were available, it would have gave us a bit more options.  

Yeah Zebo would be a good guy to have in this squad to be fair. I also would have selected Addison.

I ditch them both for James Lowe.... Run
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Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 11:30 am

rodders wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Bowe - for me good but..... overrated.  People kept telling me he was great in the air but I kept seeing him knock more balls on from his extended fingering than he captured.

Ah come on from 2008 - 2011 he was one of the best wingers in the NH. Apart from Drico no one in the modern era produced more big game winning tries for us.  

He was great in the air but it was his ability to come in field and pick lines through the middle that set him apart, at his peak he was unstoppable.

Yeah Bowe was incredible. 30 tries in 69 games is a great record.

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Post by rodders on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 11:41 am

I do like the competition we have now though, that we can leave Ringrose on the bench not to mention the likes of Addison, Marshall, Zebo, McCloskey, DK out completely is a big progression from even 2015. That's just in the outside backs.

Apart from Trimble, who'd been injured I can't think of any notable omissions last time, did McFadden miss out?
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Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 11:50 am

James Lowe had some pretty good things to say about DK on the latest Joe podcast. He seems to rate him, says he is faster than him too.

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 11:57 am

rodders wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Bowe - for me good but..... overrated.  People kept telling me he was great in the air but I kept seeing him knock more balls on from his extended fingering than he captured.

Ah come on from 2008 - 2011 he was one of the best wingers in the NH. Apart from Drico no one in the modern era produced more big game winning tries for us.  

He was great in the air but it was his ability to come in field and pick lines through the middle that set him apart, at his peak he was unstoppable.

He wasn't great in the air. He caught some ( the memorable ones) and missed/fumbled plenty ( the ones nobody remembers).

He was good, he did his biz. Certainly came rollicking in field and was seriously effective at finding those channels. But because people keep saying great in the air and I only remember a 50/50 man, I say overrated.

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Post by rodders on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 12:09 pm

If Bowe is overrated then there must be plenty of players thanking their lucky stars they even got professional contracts.
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Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 12:18 pm

I reckon he was at one point the best winger in the NH maybe even the world. Against Australia in the RWC in 2011 he was really good, almost ran the length of the pitch for a try.

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