ICC Cricket World Cup - Part 4

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Post by alfie on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 5:08 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
alfie wrote:Good to see Morgan handling the short ball.  Has seen Behrend - orff...now taking to Lyon.

Keep the foot down lads I fancy an "early" night Smile

Alfie I'm afraid this is the worst thing I have seen posted all World Cup.

I do my best Whistle

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Post by Duty281 on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 5:11 pm

Duty281 wrote:It's Eng-ger-land against the old enemy at Birmingham. Raucous, proper atmosphere. The venue of so many great English victories over Australia down the years. England's favourite ground and Australia's most miserly.

No worries whatsoever. Chasing or setting doesn't matter. Going to be a cruise.

No drama. Well done England, peaking at just the right time in this tournament to heavily defeat all three of their fellow semi-finalists. By heaven I love Edgbaston. A real team performance today withe everyone delivering, no reliance on one-man heroics.

It really is coming home on Sunday. Weather's going to be fine as well.

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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 5:12 pm

If it hadnt been for the two injury breaks we would likely have been done by now. Pretty incredible really, I think all of us except kpf and Nathaniel believed England where better than they had been playing and that Aus had a number of very average players in their side but never didni expect such a one sided thrashing ( aside from this morning when I said expect a one sided game)

That's cricket.

Aus got their selection wrong in sticking by Maxwell, as did India with Karthik. But in neither case was that the real reason they wont be in the final.

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Post by eirebilly on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 5:14 pm

In the finallllllll Very Happy
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Post by alfie on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 5:14 pm

Well whoever wins Sunday it's a new name on the Cup.

England will be confident after this comprehensive trouncing of the old enemy. But I won't underestimate NZ . Have to play well.

Morgan hits the winning runs guinness

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 5:15 pm

Just magnificent. Complete and utter demolition!
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Post by dummy_half on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 5:20 pm

That was an absolute mullering.

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Post by alfie on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 5:22 pm

And the heavy rain waited until it was all done...a perfect day.

Roy MotM ? No... It is Woakes - fair enough. In fact thats what I'd have chosen but I had expected them to pick the batsman as usual Smile

Goodnight all... thumbsup

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 5:25 pm

Hope you stayed up, Alfie! Go give em some English craic for me!

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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 5:25 pm

Nice of them to pick woakes. It was his bowling that freed up Roy. Roy's innings was incredible but England would've won without it. If woakes hadnt taken those wickets and bowled so tightly? Who knows.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 5:28 pm

KP_fan wrote:
Anything that Aus put on board, they will be be able to defend is my view..I put 100$ on Aus the moment they won the toss.
Anything

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Post by VTR on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 5:32 pm

Yes but England were lucky to not win the toss, and the umpires were biased, and the boundaries were 20m on one side. But, but, but......

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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 5:50 pm

Lyon is the best finger spinner of the modern era mind as evidenced by that 21 run over.

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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 5:51 pm

Wheres Joey when you need him ... let us be obnoxious and sore winners

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Post by compelling and rich on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 5:51 pm

"Of the two team Aus seems the only one capable of winning in a chase, it will be difficult & lower probability but they have mental strength to chase.
Eng can only win batting first.

Happy to be proven wrong."

good value is KP Laugh

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Post by Duty281 on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 5:54 pm

Channel 4 have got shared live coverage of the World Cup Final...they're showing it until 13:15, then chucking it over to a different channel (More4), because they'd rather show the Grand Prix.

And yet the free-to-air cultists, that often dominate online newspaper comment sections, will still believe that live free-to-air coverage of England cricket games is something that is actually desired by such channels, before you even get on to other matters such as affordability.

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Post by msp83 on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 5:56 pm

So England-New Zealand its going to be! England absolutely demolished Australia today, to inflict their first ever semi final defeat in World Cup history! We will have a new side taking the cup this time!
Looking forward to a great game of cricket in the final...

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Post by Duty281 on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 5:59 pm

compelling and rich wrote:"Of the two team Aus seems the only one capable of winning in a chase, it will be difficult & lower probability but they have mental strength to chase.
Eng can only win batting first.

Happy to be proven wrong."

good value is KP Laugh

Maybe he was doing a very early preview of the opening Ashes test? Very Happy

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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 5:59 pm

Duty...to be fair on 4 they only got told they would have tha access last week and have a contract with F1 to show that. It actually strikes as a cynical move by sky to put them in an awkward situation and "prove a point"
Sky could have given it to any channel...they chose one that was already showing another major sport.

Although tbf BBC would be will be wall tennis.

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Post by compelling and rich on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 6:07 pm

surely they could put full coverage on more4?

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Post by VTR on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 6:08 pm

This is why we have all been arguing that bilateral series do matter. England have actually planned for a World Cup for once, it was not an easy ride but they are in the final not by fluke, because they are a good team. Players like Roy were brought in and allowed to play a certain way over the last four years.

Time to make that final step, England don't win many global team World Cups so this team will be remembered for a long time if they can do it

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Post by compelling and rich on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 6:08 pm

just seen this on bbc website

Channel 4 are going to show the cricket til 1.15pm on Sunday, then cut to the F1 Grand Prix with the cricket going to More 4, before returning to Lord's coverage after the race

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 6:09 pm

Just sensational. Seemed impossible watching England play ODIs for years as an underwhelming side, years behind everyone else.

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Post by GSC on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 6:23 pm

let's be clear, channel 4 get 1 live F1 race a year and it has been scheduled for months. its unreasonable to expect that to shift at 3 days notice.
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Post by robbo277 on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 6:23 pm

Should England win the toss on Sunday, what would your thoughts be?

We've had cricket at 2 different grounds over the last 3 mornings and we've had swing and early wickets in each innings. Would you want to take advantage of that? And also stop Boult and Henry doing likewise?

England have shown they can chase under pressure. If England were to put NZ in, what score is safe? Would they play their own way, try and get to 240 and then defend it? Or would they feel pressured into reaching higher for 270+, creating more chances for the England bowlers?

Very strong place for England to be, and after all the talk of batting first it's great for England to get such a big win chasing ahead of the final.

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Post by VTR on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 6:31 pm

I don't mind for Sunday, we're there and have a chance, it will be the team that bowls best and handles the nerves that wins on the day. Batting first might seem like a good idea but can go wrong as seen today

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Post by guildfordbat on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 6:33 pm

robbo277 wrote:Should England win the toss on Sunday, what would your thoughts be?

We've had cricket at 2 different grounds over the last 3 mornings and we've had swing and early wickets in each innings. Would you want to take advantage of that? And also stop Boult and Henry doing likewise?

England have shown they can chase under pressure. If England were to put NZ in, what score is safe? Would they play their own way, try and get to 240 and then defend it? Or would they feel pressured into reaching higher for 270+, creating more chances for the England bowlers?

Very strong place for England to be, and after all the talk of batting first it's great for England to get such a big win chasing ahead of the final.

Robbo - look down, look up, think about it ... and then bat. Smile

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Post by dummy_half on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 6:59 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
robbo277 wrote:Should England win the toss on Sunday, what would your thoughts be?

We've had cricket at 2 different grounds over the last 3 mornings and we've had swing and early wickets in each innings. Would you want to take advantage of that? And also stop Boult and Henry doing likewise?

England have shown they can chase under pressure. If England were to put NZ in, what score is safe? Would they play their own way, try and get to 240 and then defend it? Or would they feel pressured into reaching higher for 270+, creating more chances for the England bowlers?

Very strong place for England to be, and after all the talk of batting first it's great for England to get such a big win chasing ahead of the final.

Robbo - look down, look up, think about it ... and then bat. Smile

Isn't the other version, say 'bat' immediately 90% of the time, the other 10% think about it then bat anyway.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 7:00 pm

Great to see they’ve added a new option for sexuality:

Jos Buttler throwing the ball through Smith’s legs

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Post by Duty281 on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 7:15 pm

Four WC games at Lord's so far - all four won by the side batting first. Pakistan made 308 v South Africa, Australia made 285 v England, Australia made 243 v New Zealand, and Pakistan made 315 v Bangladesh. All winning totals by a distance.

I'd have thought whichever captain wins the toss will bat first, barring a surprisingly green track or heavily cloudy weather.

Difficult to make a case for the Kiwis beating England. New Zealand have got severe batting issues and not a lot of punch in the bowling once the new ball period has subsided. Granted, that new ball period can be very damaging! England are firing on all cylinders and playing like world champions. They've been miles ahead, in terms of performance levels, of anyone else in this competition over the past three games, and the only question is whether they can do it once more. Oh, and of course, England beat New Zealand by a very heavy margin of 119 runs very recently.

England mammoth favourites (2/7) with the bookmakers, which sounds just about right.

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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 8:17 pm

If it were a day like today then maybe bowl first. But Lords is likely to be a road and sunny, not cloudy and humid air we had round here this morning.

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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 8:21 pm

GSC wrote:let's be clear, channel 4 get 1 live F1 race a year and it has been scheduled for months. its unreasonable to expect that to shift at 3 days notice.

And Sky only decided to let them show the cricket a few days ago....

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Post by GSC on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 8:26 pm

yeah and only if England won today
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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 8:59 pm

Hope you aren't suggesting that kpf wrote the TV schedules

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 9:16 pm

I see Roy faces disciplinary action for his outrage

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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 9:27 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:I see Roy faces disciplinary action for his outrage

From kpf for breaching the spirit of the game and chasing something down?


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Post by VTR on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 9:46 pm

Well I hope the umpire is similarly disciplined for extreme incompetence. What a pathetic decision that was, almost let himself be bullied into giving it out

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Post by LondonTiger on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 9:58 pm

30% of his match fee and 2 demerit points. Which is fair enough. I have no issue with him trying to review it, but having been told they lost the review (and he told Bairstow to review) he should have gone. Irrespective of the quality of the decision that was an unacceptable amount of dissent.

One thing I did notice is that just before both dismissals the PA had been playing sing a long music that the crowd were still raucously singing when the fatal deliveries were being bowled. Sweet Caroline for Bairstow, Hey Jude for Roy.

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Post by Pal Joey on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 11:42 pm

Excellent win for England...  and I'm happy for you guys that you did it in such style.
Australia were gone before they even got going. Parallels with the India match there.
As I posted earlier that sort of score was not going to stop England. I don't think 330 runs would have been enough the way the openers were scoring. Roy deserved a good hundred; that dismissal wasn't fair. So I'm glad that didn't have bigger consequences. The best team won on the day and it will be great knowing the World Cup will have a new winner this time. I'm looking forward to it too. All the best to both teams on Sunday!
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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 11:47 pm

Pal Joey wrote:Excellent win for England...  and I'm happy for you guys that you did it in such style.
Australia were gone before they even got going. Parallels with the India match there.
As I posted earlier that sort of score was not going to stop England. I don't think 330 runs would have been enough the way the openers were scoring. Roy deserved a good hundred; that dismissal wasn't fair. So I'm glad that didn't have bigger consequences. The best team on the day won on the day and it will be great knowing the World Cup will have a new winner this time. All the best to both teams on Sunday!

OK

Not sure what to say for Australia. Don't think they need to go home looking at root and branch changes, they had played wonderfully before now but came up against an absolutely outstanding performance.

Some questions in that middle order, but nothing new for them to ponder. I guess a lot of them are sticking around for a long stay here anyway.

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Post by Pal Joey on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 11:53 pm

Yeah, these things happen, Flipper. It was just one of those days when everything turned to gold for England... and mud for Australia. I think quite a few of them will be hanging around for some shopping before they get into Ashes mode. I'm hoping they behave themselves in the meantime.
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Post by guildfordbat on Fri 12 Jul 2019, 12:37 am

guildfordbat wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:I also noted a few days back that I thought NZ have been very lucky this tournament, and I still think they are - basically lost to all the good sides, but are going through because the game against India got washed out.

Also were a yard or two away from losing to the Windies, a Mushfiqur brain fade away from losing to Bangladesh (a village keeper would've been disappointed to muck that run out up) and a non review/not given out caught behind of Williamson off Tahir away from losing to South Africa. Very much had to rub of the green, and for me easily the weakest of the final four, to even get a competitive 250 it seems they need Williamson to get a hundred


Yes but keep in mind, Grasshopper, that several sides have won Football World Cups over the years with that sort of start. Smile

For Joey's tipping competition, maybe I should have had the courage of my suspicions. Certainly would have cleaned up in the semis! Smile

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Post by It Must Be Love on Fri 12 Jul 2019, 12:39 am

England have been the best ODI team in the world for the past few years and deserve to win the trophy.
I think the pitches in this world cup, for the most part, have actually been quite balanced between bat and ball and we've had some good matches. The pitches for most bi-lateral ODI series are a joke.

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Post by KP_fan on Fri 12 Jul 2019, 6:29 am

Eng found seam and bounce and spin and pace out of the pitch and their openers could smack the ball all round and all of them together created a perfect storm that sank the Aussies.

Now Eng would be favorite to lift the cup though they have to avoid complacency.....for NZ knows how to maximize the outputs from a situation & punch above their weights.


Will Roy be banned for next game?
I don't think so......a monetary fine and / or a deferred suspension maximum should apply here.

I have only very closely watched him in last 3 games and he is hand-eye-reflexes coordination... very Sehwag-ish & similar to him a bit unique as in even when he hits on the rise on the off side, he keeps it down using a lot of wrist.
His wrist movements are akin to tennis players double handed under-cut drop shot.

Looking at his scores I had asked on the forum why he wasn't opening in tests & someone pointed to his FC average.
I think that's a fair point.....in very seaming conditions he will have quite a few cheap dismissals but could play 1 match winning inning every 4th test match.
But would do a lot better on tour of sub-continents.

PS* And Sarfaraz must be having the last laugh at having beaten both finalists
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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 12 Jul 2019, 6:34 am

KP_fan wrote:
Will Roy be banned for next game?
I don't think so......a monetary fine and / or a deferred suspension maximum should apply here.

robbo277 wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Roy will get a demerit point automatically for standing and arguing but I believe it will be overturned given the howler of the appeal and decision.

I checked up.

Roy isn't currently on the demerit list so he has 0 points. He'd need 4 to earn a suspension. The last player to get more than 1 point for an incident was Stuart Law in 2018 and he got 3 points for this:

Stuart Law repeatedly said used obscene language with the word 'cheats' as he walked past the 4th umpire. He then looked at and directed a comment to the 4th umpire that 'Rahane is a cheat'.

I can only see players getting 4 or more points for a singular incident on two occasions; when Sri Lanka refused to take the field at the start of day's play and Steve Smith for his part in sandpaper gate.

So Roy should be fine. Unlikely he'll get more than 1 and isn't close to a ban at the moment.



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Post by KP_fan on Fri 12 Jul 2019, 6:37 am

The last two games put the format under scrutiny....the undisputed dominant top-2 go out with one bad day in K.Os......throws water over rewarding the consistency concept.

I can see 2 better ways
1- the top-2 of the group directly play the final

OR
2- More preferable an IPL like...top-2 play the first semis and their winner goes thru in the final
and the loser of top-2 plays the winner of 3& 4 & that result decides the other finalists

Option-1 reduces a game and option-2 adds only one more game whihc is trivial given the length of tournament.
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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 12 Jul 2019, 6:49 am

KP_fan wrote:
Looking at his scores I had asked on the forum why he wasn't opening in tests & someone pointed to his FC average.
I think that's a fair point.....in very seaming conditions he will have quite a few cheap dismissals but could play 1 match winning inning every 4th test match.
But would do a lot better on tour of sub-continents.

PS* And Sarfaraz must be having the last laugh at having beaten both finalists


Theres more to it than that.
Firstly Roy is still maturing as a player. If you look at his ODI scores hes only recently become consistent and genuinely nailed down the spot he was competing for with Hales/Bairstow. Hes always had the shots and the talent, just not the nerve and ability to vary his scoring that he has now. I just dont think he wouldve had the patience for test cricket.
Also look at what happened with Hales, who had more pedigree as a first class opener. His test experience knocked him back in limited overs briefly, and rather than have him focus on changing his game whilst he was still young and developing his ODI batting they quickly made the right call to let him get on with what he was best at. Although maybe that spare time didnt work out so well for him but ...
Another thing, England have a lot of naturally attacking batsmen in the test side. Aside form Cook, who was rubbish for a while, they havent had another hang around solid one since Trott. The criticism of the side was that it was too soft, especially at the top of the order, and when conditions were bad too easily blown away. They couldnt bat out a day to save test that kind of thing.

His name has been whispered a bit more recently and theres absolutely a groundswell of opinion that he should be in the test team after this world cup. Cook and Farbrace both said this during the commentary, and Bayliss has said he was in consideration during interviews. So it does seem hes pretty much a done deal.

If hes a success does that mean theyve waited too long? I dont think so. I think hes ready now, and with the world cup gone his focus and skill development can be elsewhere. Chucking him in when he wasnt ready might have stopped him becoming the ODI player he is now, and England might not have the chance to loose the world cup final. Now he has the maturity and confidence and knowledge that his teammamtes believe in him to go out and play with less pressure. What you wouldnt want to see is the tentative James Vince, what we may see is a swaggering KP type figure.

He certainly wont fear Starc. And that means a lot for the Ashes. There are huge questions he has to answer regarding green tops in a home summer and 4 slips of course, but fortunately he wont be facing Anderson Broad and Woakes. If the Aussies come and try and take his head off he will lap that up. Starc was bowling up to 150 yesterday, he handled that. Hes as ready as anyone we have available.

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Post by GSC on Fri 12 Jul 2019, 6:56 am

my issue with the format is more the group stage is too long more than the top two teams being eliminated at the first knockout game
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Post by VTR on Fri 12 Jul 2019, 7:07 am

I wouldn't worry, the ICC will now be scratching their heads for a solution of how to give India the most chance to get in the final. I'm sure they will come up with something, as they always do

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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 12 Jul 2019, 7:13 am

The world cup has been very long.
The format suffers by inclusion, without Afghanistan there would've been 9 less games and a reduced chance of rain genuinely screwing up someones chances by denying then a point everyone else got for free.

As it is England reached the final have beaten all the other top 4 sides and all the top 5 in the world rankings.

New Zealand could be considered lucky to be in the final but to win the cup they will have had to have beaten the top two sides in the world in knockout games.

I don't see much value in making it even longer with a second chance semi like T20 which is a lottery format.


Theres a good ballance between avoiding bad luck, one off bad performances and weather overly affecting who makes the knock outs whilst preserving the possibility of an unfancied side like NZ progressing by performing well. Knocknout fixtures at the end and edge and excitement and ensure it doesnt tail off in to boredom too quickly.

Noones going to win this cup without having had to beat the other top sides. That's justice isnt it?
That's not always been the case with other formats. Small groups in particular run too much risk of the draw affecting who goes through easily and who gets a group of death. The super 6 / 8 just seemed full of pointless games.

Next time the additional qualification tournaments ballance the criticism that this format excludes too many second tier nations by guaranteeing them far more meaningful games against top sides in the build up than theyve had before, and fair chance to qualify on merit if they are improving.

Personally I'm not a fan of huge mismatches in the name of inclusion, and Inreally dont feel Afghan added much. It's quite possibly that the corruption and fall out from internal squabbling caused by in them being here will do more harm than good. Their star players been humiliated and had his reputation battered. Is that good for the global game? We will see. Having one no hope in is OK, but please not 3.

I like the format.


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