Glasgow and Edinburgh banter thread no. 23 - New season, new thread

[BigGee]

First topic message reminder :

Well a new season is probably time to start off a new thread.

2 weeks to the start of the season and both sides with one more pre season game to go. A lot of unknowns this season again, due to the number of players away with Scotland and other countries for the WC.

For Glasgow, can they continue their general excellence that took them on a fantastic end of season run to the Pro 14 Final, where they just fell short. It might be their last campaign under Dave Rennie, so can they go one better?

Edinburgh also have questions to ask, the main one being whether they can ever pass the ball past the FH and how soon before their wingers are likely to go blue from hypothermia? On a more positive note though, they may finally be playing in Mini Murrayfield by autumn 2020. So only one more year to bear playing in the library!

Good luck to both teams for the coming season, though Edinburgh are more likely to need it than Glasgow!

[bsando]

https://www.edinburghrugby.org/the-clubhouse/official-edinburgh-podcast

I'd recommend the Edinburgh podcast for those who like that kind of thing. Currently listening to the chunk one - he's hilarious. The Schoeman one was entertaining too. Chunk comes on after half an hour.

Yeah I’ve been enjoying them a lot, done in a pro location but very laid back and less official than the Scottish rugby podcast. Also learned a lot of new slang from the Kinghorn one, FOMO, Drip.. 

[RDW]

Kinghorn sounds like a child - you forget how young some of these guys are!

[BigGee]

He seems to have gone for a fairly lightweight second row and another two flankers on the bench.

The game plan looks like it will be to try and run them off the park!

It might work, I don't suppose there was much chance of winning an arm wrestle.

[bsando]

Yeah I like the look of it, will be interesting to see how they do away from home against he form Top14 side.

Glasgow team sheet looks decent too, I'm excited for that one. Two wins for both Scottish sides would be pretty impressive this weekend.

[RDW]

Greetings from stade chaban delmas! Cracking day for rugby.

I fear we're going to get pumped...

[BigGee]

Nice city Bordeaux, my daughter spdnt 4 months there and we went to visit.

Excellent food and wine (unsurprisingly) and the tram system is something to behold. The Edinburgh planners could well have done with speaking to the French ones before embarking on their debacle!

Enjoy the match, but i think you may be right in suggesting it may be a hard day at the office!

[RDW]

Pitch is awful - being ripped to pieces.

Edinburgh competing well so far.

[RDW]

Not sure about that try - he didn't just place it, he propelled himself forwards. Double movement!

[RDW]

Radrada is a sexy beast of a rugby player - he's the difference in the teams.

[TheMildlyFranticLlama]

Sweet Jesus, big Duhan just got ripped and they tore through us to score. Scary stuff

[RDW]

There's not actually much between the teams - they've had two break away scores which they took well. What is frustrating is one was from our messed up lineout and the other from Duhan being ripped on possession.

We've been pretty blunt in attack other than individual work from both wingers.

Radrada is something else though.

[RDW]

Our lineout has been a shambles

[RDW]

Bradbury's been mince today - two horrible knock ons

[RDW]

That's the 3rd try today directly from our messed up lineout

[bsando]

Seemed like a lot of errors from Edinburgh from what I've read online and the lineout being pretty dire. Still, not a totally awful scoreline considering the opposition, sounds like there were a lot of positives too.

[RDW]

We must have lost 7 or 8 of our own lineouts - it was that bad. Even the ones we won weren't clean and couldn't do much with them. Charmichael was calling the line - he's a long way from a Scotland callup with an anonymous display.

We were also completely dominated in the air - they basically won every single 50/50. We weren't even close!

Again though our attacking shape was non existent - it was basically give it to one of the wingers and see what they do with it.

Finally, we looked flat and none of the players looked like they wanted to take the game by the scruff of the neck. Bradbury was particularly disappointing.

[BigGee]

Mark Palmer Interview with Huw Jones in the Sunday Times, he has had a frustrating time but sounds like Rennie is starting to beleive in him at last!



It just about always comes back to defence with Huw Jones. Be the speakers media or supporters, chats about the centre’s merits tend to run aground there sooner or later. The player himself accepts that some of the question marks are valid, and doesn’t seek to shy away from the reality of dark days like the ones he experienced with Scotland at Twickenham in 2017 and Cardiff the following November. Yet if those egregious misses were always likely to stay on (and stain) his record, Jones believes they are now seen as symptomatic of a weakness that doesn’t actually exist.
“It’s become a caricature, the go-to buzz word when people think about why I’m not getting picked,” he says. “It’s always ‘it must be his defence’. But I know I’m a good defender, I’m a smart defender and I get in the right positions. Sometimes I miss tackles and sometimes I’ve missed them at key moments and that always looks bad, but it’s a lot easier when you’re closer into the ruck and you’ve got a metre either side of you; someone else can step in for that tackle. In the 13 channel, if you miss there’s no recovery. There’s definitely more I can do in my tackle intent, being more selective, and my tackle selection as well. Often when I’ve missed, I’ve gone too high. But I know I’m not a bad defender.”
The 26-year-old admits the relentless focus on his defence has been to the detriment of his attack, a strength we can all agree on. Anticipation, acceleration and that gorgeous outside break were what made him an essential component of the national team in the latter days of Vern Cotter and the early ones under Gregor Townsend, Jones scoring 10 tries in his first 13 starts. By contrast, in eight starts since a glorious pair of tries in the 2018 Calcutta Cup win, he has failed to cross and rarely wrought the same havoc as the third firestarter in the backline alongside Finn Russell and Stuart Hogg. If that pair have looked under too much pressure to pull rabbits from hats as a result, Jones himself has felt imbalanced.
“I’ve lost focus on it [attack],” he says. “I’ve not lost what I can do, but since my knee injury [in the second match of the 2019 Six Nations against Ireland], everything was about getting better defensively. The whole of my pre-season camp with Scotland was about defence. I didn’t go to the World Cup, and part of that was defence and part of it was they thought I wasn’t back to my best after the injury.
“I’m now in a place where I’m working on it every week, I know what the coaches want from me, but I can also focus on my attack and that is my point of difference. My attacking game is the reason I’ve been picked in teams and got my Scotland caps, so I don’t want to lose that. I want to keep improving on it.”

Jones’ failure to land a ticket to Japan was not a huge surprise to anyone who witnessed his struggle for form, fitness and even selection at Glasgow. A couple of badly timed injuries last season cost him dear in the congested race for spots in the Warriors midfield and he went into the World Cup training camp having played a bit part in the Pro14 run-in.



Though he felt he trained well, Jones’ involvement in the warm-up matches was limited to a start in the Nice disaster and a brief substitute appearance in the last game away to Georgia. Neither he nor fellow adventurous 13 Rory Hutchinson made the final cut, but it was the exclusion of the Northampton man that was harder to justify, long before Scotland’s dispiriting defeats to Ireland and the hosts demanded further scrutiny.
“During most of pre-season, I didn’t see it [not being selected] coming, but in the last two weeks of camp the doubts started to creep in,” says Jones. “That last week before we got the [phone] calls, I was expecting to be dropped.
“It was frustrating because I felt I had got a bit of a short straw in terms of the games. We got pumped [against France] and there’s not much you can do as a backline when you’re going backwards the whole time. That was a pretty dreadful game to be involved in, and my last contribution was 20 minutes off the bench in Tbilisi. That was probably my last chance to do something and I didn’t. After that, I thought, ‘That’s it, I’m not going to make it.’ Obviously I was still gutted when I got the call because you always have hope. I was silent for most of it, I couldn’t think of anything to say.”

He was on a train to London on the Sunday morning of the Japan game. “A guy in my carriage was watching it and I was looking over his shoulder every now and then, checking the score.” With the same growing horror as the rest of us.
Jones had insisted on getting straight back into it with Glasgow, but after starting the first couple of league matches, he again found himself squeezed out when the European action began. While Nick Grigg was being preferred for the first pool games against Sale and Exeter, Jones was trying to push through a return to the Stormers. A turning point arrived with the chance to start against La Rochelle at Scotstoun on December 14, and having made a good impression on both sides of the ball, Jones retained the jersey for the 1872 Cup double header.
A crucial home try assist for Ali Price and a lovely Murrayfield score later, supporters voted him the McCrea Financial Services Warrior of the Month. Not only was it the first time he had been among the nominees; it was also the first time he had started three consecutive Glasgow games since arriving in autumn 2017.
“It’s frustrating looking back, thinking I could have done this a lot earlier if I’d been given the chance,” he said, speaking before the mixed bag against Exeter yesterday that saw him score another try but mess up a number of other big opportunities. “I’ve always said that if I can get a couple of games in a row, I’ll be able to show what I can do, and even if I don’t think I’ve put out a full 80 of what I think would be my best, there were definitely elements of what I did that were really good. You have to be playing to show that.
“Dave [Rennie, Glasgow’s head coach] always talks about it [the centre selection] being so close. Even when you’re starting, you’re thinking it could be your last chance. You don’t want to go into a game thinking ‘I’ve got to do something amazing here to play next week’, but often you do. Often I’d be going into games thinking , ‘Poopie, I’ve got to do something really good otherwise I’m not going to play [next time].’
“From a coach’s point of view it’s probably what you want in terms of getting the best out of your players, but I don’t think it always does. You get guys trying to do something special rather than doing the basics right.
“Before one of the games in December, Dave said to me: ‘Forget about the work-ons, just go and play your game.’ That was a big shift and I wasn’t expecting it. If he comes over before a game, I’m expecting it to be about wanting to see dominance in my tackles, getting off the line, getting in people’s faces in defence — being more aggressive basically. But instead it was ‘do your thing’, which gave me confidence just to be myself. I’ve been given my chance and played quite well. Hopefully that continues. I just hope 2020 is the opposite to 2019: that would be ideal.”

[RDW]

Quite ironic to hear how much focus there was on defence in the summer given how bad our defence then was! It's a shame if we're making players lose what they're good at in pursuit of a defensive holy grail that we still fell short on.

[bsando]

Pressure can be a good but it sounds like Rennie pushed him a bit too much and then additionally Townsend probably did too. I guess Rennie knows now that he probably responds best to positive reinforcement rather than an overloaded list of work on's. It's a good thing long term though, because as we saw in 2017 at Twickenham, he was at times getting found out in his channel and now he's a much much better defender. I'm sure he'll get picked in the 6N and then we'll see just how much he has improved in his defence and hopefully he'll be playing as well as he is right now in attack with a better bounce of the ball.

[EWT Spoons]

What a weekend in Bordeaux.

Absolutely dying today.

Randomly met Bernard Laporte and was ‘treated’ to a rendition of flower of Scotland by him and the group he was with. He also highly rates Cockers as a coach and the job he’s done at Edinburgh.

Managed to blag our way into hospitality after the game and drank far too much free wine and champagne with some people who were clearly important for various reasons. Ended up dancing with the cheerleaders, who cracked out multiple dance routines, which they wanted us to copy, which wasn't physically possible. Gave it a shot though and I hurt from head to toe.

I’ve been to a fair few trips for rugby now and I’d probably put Bordeaux near the top, everyone we met were brilliant. Genuinely friendly and nice folk.

Would highly recommend a visit.

[BigGee]

Sounds like a quiet weekend then Spoons

[RDW]

Yeah Bordeaux was awesome, although we struggled to find many places open yesterday which was a bit annoying. Several places were meant to be open but had taken an extended Christmas break!

We were you part of the large group of blokes wearing kilts Spoons?

I do enjoy Edinburgh away games - people actually sing and chant unlike at Murrayfield. My personal favourite was:

"He's big, from Fiji, thank God he's not a Weegee Bill Mataaaaaaaa, Bill Mataaaaaaa"

It was very noticable that all the Edinburgh fans were constantly going back and forwards to the bar throughout the game - hardly any Frenchies did! it was a really good stadium if a little dated - I always get jealous seeing clubs who have these stadiums. Hopefully the new Edinburgh one gives something similar (but I don't think it will given it's a bunch of scaffolding with no infrastructure around it).

[BigGee]

Can't say I have ever noticed the French not liking a drink whenever I have been to matches there!

I actually watched the World Cup Final 4 years ago in a pub in Bordeaux, Le Robin Hood, which seemed a bit of a rugby boozer. It was packed and they were all very sociable and did not want NZ to win, I had a very jolly time.

[EWT Spoons]

Yeah Bordeaux was awesome, although we struggled to find many places open yesterday which was a bit annoying. Several places were meant to be open but had taken an extended Christmas break!

We were you part of the large group of blokes wearing kilts Spoons?

I do enjoy Edinburgh away games - people actually sing and chant unlike at Murrayfield. My personal favourite was:

"He's big, from Fiji, thank God he's not a Weegee Bill Mataaaaaaaa, Bill Mataaaaaaa"

It was very noticable that all the Edinburgh fans were constantly going back and forwards to the bar throughout the game - hardly any Frenchies did! it was a really good stadium if a little dated - I always get jealous seeing clubs who have these stadiums. Hopefully the new Edinburgh one gives something similar (but I don't think it will given it's a bunch of scaffolding with no infrastructure around it).

I was part of a group of blokes wearing kilts so decent chance. The Bill Mata song was sung by us, so if you heard that, then you likely were nearby.

[RDW]

Aye I think we were in front of you nearer the bottom - the front most group of Edinburgh fans section 38 I think. A long row of mainly female fans were in front of us.

[EWT Spoons]

In the nicest possible way, did one of the female fans shouting, sound like a moose being molested?

We were in section 41 so pretty close

[RDW]

Haha yeah - she's a regular fixture at away games, and you can hear her on the TV for home games!

Ah ok you were further along from us - i did see a group there.  Was a good turnout of Edinburgh fans. We might end up with them in the QF so could do it all again!

[EWT Spoons]

Aye she's a friend. There's nothing to her and yet she makes that noise. Unreal. If she was in front/behind we were a few rows back from them in the same section.

I think if I tried to do it all again it would literally kill me

[whocares]

Where you part of that lot EWT?
https://twitter.com/ubbrugby/status/1215675867550101505?s=21

Glad you enjoyed the weekend there
Couldn’t make it but saw the game on tv and thought it was lively with both teams up for it. Radradra was indeed a big difference in the end.

[BigGee]

Haha yeah - she's a regular fixture at away games, and you can hear her on the TV for home games!

Lets be honest, it is not exactly hard to stand out at an Edinburgh home game if you make any noise!

[BigGee]

I see Cecerelli is in the Italian squad for the 6N.

He has been playing well and deserves it, but it is certainly going to deplete Edinburgh propping options during the tournament. Hopefully McCallam is ready to step up.

[jimbopip]

Chentlemenn, chentlemenn may I just say a big thank you to all of you Except of course tigertattie, who smells of L'aire du temps and desperation.

Why am I thanking you?

Well I am sure you all know the theory that social media traps us all in echo chambers where we pontificate to like minded individuals who then parrot back our own narrow minded prejudices which responses we paraphrase and send back to them again. I have just escaped from one such circle of Hell.
I had , in a moment of blind optimism, joined the Glasgow Warriors Facebook group. All went swimmingly until in a conversation about Saturday's game I opined that Gibbins' clear out that led to his yellow card was pretty stupid and not the example a captain should be setting and that the 10 points we shipped during his time out proved very costly. Oh my feccin gawd     You would have thought I stood up in the Vatican and accused the college of bishops of knowingly turning a blind eye to institutionalised sexual abuse of children. Ah! Hold on there, Ted.
Seriously, the responses I got were unbelievable. It started with being accused of having it for Mr Gibbins and then got worse. The final straw was when I was accused of regurgitating Austin Healey's anti-Glasgow vitriol. That's fine but I seem to remember during the match Healey saying, "I really like the way Glasgow play. I'd pay money to come and watch them. ". Anti-Glasgow vitriol indeed

What we have here is a bunch of rugby fans who will disagree with each other, and in Fes's case the whole world outside Stockbridge Residents' association, and still respect each other. This place is a lot of things but it is not an echo chamber. Thank fecc.

p.s. It looks like myself and Baz the ex-nippy scrum half will be driving oop north t'Sale on Saturday: if any posters in the London area want a lift let me know.

[RDW]

You're welcome.

If you know of other sensible Glasgow posters (if indeed others outside this forum actually exist) please recommend they join here!

[funnyExiledScot]

Quite ironic to hear how much focus there was on defence in the summer given how bad our defence then was! It's a shame if we're making players lose what they're good at in pursuit of a defensive holy grail that we still fell short on.

This is exactly my criticism of Toonie, and frankly Scotland coaches going back 20 years. We have had a wonderful knack of ruining players, and the World Cup was a perfect example of muddled thinking. Scotland has shown in the last 5-6 years that we can play some great attacking rugby when given the licence to do so (as under Cotter and early Toonie), but rather than develop that and take it further, Toonie wound it back and starting picking players who can't play that way, or telling attack minded players to curb those instincts. The end result was a team that wasn't particularly good at anything, with players like Laidlaw, Harris, an unfit Taylor and Maitland all combining in a team that's supposed to be attack minded (and we don't have a pack to win an arm wrestle anyway). It's fine to have a player or two to balance things, and you can't pick 7 D'Arcy Grahams, but likewise you can't pick plodders and just expect Russell and Hogg to conjure out of thin air.

Toonie is instinctively a bold coach. Let's have more of that.

[funnyExiledScot]

What we have here is a bunch of rugby fans who will disagree with each other, and in Fes's case the whole world outside Stockbridge Residents' association, and still respect each other. This place is a lot of things but it is not an echo chamber. Thank fecc

Never go near Facebook for rugby. In the bad old days I'd have a go at Edinburgh after a 50 point thumping by one of the Italian teams that don't exist anymore only to be told that I wasnt a real fan, and should support the team come what may. Impossible to reason with that level of stupidity and given that only one person can be leader of the Labour Party, I just wonder what the rest of them do for a living.

Still, I can always retire back to the Stockbridge Residents Association at the end of a long 4 hour day, have a brandy and discuss the prospects for my plantations in the New World....

[jimbopip]

FES, has your account been hacked?
I would love to see

9. Little Big Horne
10.Dancer
11. D'Arcy
12. Hutchieson
13. Not A Pony
14. King Blarehorn
15. The Crossbar King

And have Toonie tell them not to worry overly about results, just go out there and see if you can make something good happen.

[BigGee]

FES, has your account been hacked?
I would love to see

9. Little Big Horne
10.Dancer
11. D'Arcy
12. Hutchieson
13. Not A Pony
14. King Blarehorn
15. The Crossbar King

And have Toonie tell them not to worry overly about results, just go out there and see if you can make something good happen.

That would be quite a backline, though I would be inclined to pick Sleepy Sean over Blairhorn, every team needs at least one adult in the room!

[funnyExiledScot]

Mine would be as follows:

9.Horne
10.Russell
11.Maitland
12.Hutchinson
13.H Jones
14.Graham
15.Hogg

21.Price
22.Hastings
23.Kinghorn

My only real debate is Jones vs Bennett or whether to include Scott at 12 and Hutchinson at 13.

Has Taylor been on the pitch for Sarries? He looked sharper after the WC but I confess that I haven't seen Sarries play recently. A fully fit Taylor would work nicely with Hutchinson.

[jimbopip]

FES, all of the people you've named could be in the squad and given a chance over the tournament.

[funnyExiledScot]

FES, all of the people you've named could be in the squad and given a chance over the tournament.

If I see Henry Pyrgos, Peter Horne, Nick Grigg, Chris Harris or Byron McGuigan in a Scotland jersey during the 6 Nations I will get jolly cross.

In fact add Gordon Reid, Tim Swinson and Ryan Wilson to that list as well.

Rank average mediocrity.

[bsando]

Bats**t, preposterous idea, but could Glasgow make a bid for Julian Savea? That would be one heck of a player to have if Glasgow could bring him back to something close to his best form. He's not done well at Toulon, but neither have a lot of world class players which to me suggests it's a deeper problem at the club rather than the players.

[RDW]

On the one hand it would be an expensive risk to take on a player who appears to be past his best and have some baggage with him, but Glasgow (and the SRU) are very good at providing an environment for these guys to get back to their best.

I'm not sure it would be money well spent though given the gaping holes in the Glasgow squad next season.

[bsando]

True, the more immediate problem for them is the pack I suppose. If they could convince Nakarawa to stay and sign a decent no.8 or flanker that would be a pretty good step forward. Savea would be a little risky but as you say the SRU and Glasgow are pretty good at creating a fun positive environment for players.

[BigGee]

Well we do need some stardust on the outside but Savea would not be cheap and may not be to enamoured of the climate in Glasgow either.

I am not sure he would be good value even if he was interested. Bigger clubs with deeper pockets will pick him up long before we will.

[BigGee]

https://www.606v2.com/t69373-sale-sharks-v-glasgow-warriors-european-champions-cup-saturday-18th-january-2020

[tigertattie]

You're welcome.

If you know of other sensible Glasgow posters (if indeed others outside this forum actually exist) please recommend they join here!

Hold on, Just hold on one second Flounder!!!

This post is hinting that Jimbo and his west coast cronies on this forum are sensible!!!!

Utter nonsense. These are the fellows who come out with such things as, and I quote

"Glasgow will be champions again"
"Glasgow are a proper rugby team"
"Glasgow will win the 1872 cup"
"Ryan Wilson plays above the ground"
"Pete Horne is good enough to play for Scotland"

Not a single piece of sense said there!

[RDW]

Duhan has extended his Edinburgh contract to take him into his SQ era.

They've obviously made a conscious decision this time to not disclose how long each contract extension is - none of the articles so far have mentioned how long.

Hopefully there is a mix of 2 and 3 years in these extensions to avoid most of the squad coming out of contract at the same time like this year!

[EWT Spoons]

On this whole contract extension duration secrecy, someone mentioned this might be a GDPR thing, where they are protecting the club against any potential issue by just not announcing it.

Which in a way would make sense, and is the best reason I've seen so far for it.

[funnyExiledScot]

Great news on Duhan. He's been reliably awesome for us.

[BigGee]

https://www.theoffsideline.com/huge-hike-in-sru-top-executive-salaries-revealed/

Dodson seems to have doubled his salary this year and is now getting a pretty good wedge by any standards, Not entirely sure what he has done to deserve that!

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