Refreshed side

First topic message reminder :

So a few comments I've lifted from the guardian from Eddie Jones. Pretty much as you'd expect in terms of looking ahead to the next challenge.
“I tell you what happens to teams – they evolve,” Jones said. “Some guys will lose desire, some guys will lose fitness, some guys will get injuries and there’ll be young guys come through. So this team is finished now. There will be a new team made. We’ll make a new team for the Six Nations and that new team for the Six Nations will be the basis of going to the next World Cup.'

Apparently the team at the weekend is the youngest to appear in a WC final so there won't be 15 new guys coming in but clearly a few are coming to the end. Are there particular areas or players jones will be looking at?

For me this bunch stand a decent chance in and around the squad to get more caps soon. Genge, Painter, Willis, Dombrandt, Smith, spencer, Robson and a outside chance of Mullins at full back.

Guys that are all young enough to be around for years to come but all with great potential. Perhaps not as good/proven as some who will step back but hugely talented.

3rd at best.

Some strange calls.

BamBam, Umaga is more a 10 than a 12 for Wasps.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Good man. I don't know why you'd ever list them alphabetically!

The media people at RFU like that.

LondonTiger wrote:BamBam, Umaga is more a 10 than a 12 for Wasps.

Yep, beat me to it. He;s played both, but has settled into the 10 shirt and is keeping Sopoaga out mostly.

TightHEAD wrote:3rd at best.

Some strange calls.

Illuminate us on the decisions that have made you switch from England getting a GS to finishing mid table.

I assume EJ has been in touch with Dombrandt over 'areas to work on'.

You would have thought this would have opened the door for Simmonds (S) given that hes an 8 in form with England caps who played well when given the chance. But nevermind

LondonTiger wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:3rd at best.

Some strange calls.

Illuminate us on the decisions that have made you switch from England getting a GS to finishing mid table.

Yet more bullying!

Why not ask others to do the same.

Don't get the inclusion of six locks and no number 8s. Surely you could drop Ewels and make a place for someone like Dombrandt?

LondonTiger wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Good man. I don't know why you'd ever list them alphabetically!

The media people at RFU like that.

Might it be a Six Nations stipulation? I think the Wales and Ireland squads were listed alphabetically as well.

Possible team for Paris:

Marler, George, Sinckler, Itoje, Kruis, Curry, Underhill, Earl, Youngs, Farrell, May, Tuilagi, Joseph, Watson, Daly

LCD, Mako, Williams, Lawes, Ludlum, Heinz, Ford, TBC

TightHEAD wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:3rd at best.

Some strange calls.

Illuminate us on the decisions that have made you switch from England getting a GS to finishing mid table.

Yet more bullying!

Why not ask others to do the same.

Other people are staying what they think is odd, and who should be in. You have not. Sorry that wanting to know what you think is bullying.

Just cant work out this love for Ewels...

and harassment.

Cumbrian wrote:Don't get the inclusion of six locks and no number 8s.  Surely you could drop Ewels and make a place for someone like Dombrandt?

Yeah 6 locks seems odd. I really thought we may see Simmonds and/or Dombrandt included.

Reading rumours that Nowell's injured and needs surgery.

Split by club (changing Dunn to Bath)

Exeter 3
Sale 1
Bath 6
Saracens 7
Leicester 5
Worcester 1
Wasps 2
Saints 5
Quins 2
Gloucester 2
Newcastle 1

Rinsure wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:BamBam, Umaga is more a 10 than a 12 for Wasps.

Yep, beat me to it. He;s played both, but has settled into the 10 shirt and is keeping Sopoaga out mostly.

Updated for Umaga

It's odd to me that there is no Dombrandt particularly without vunipola but theres some exciting choices there.

Very odd

I assume that Watson's injury wasn't serious then

I hope Saints get some of their injured players back very soon, he has denuded their back line with Dingwall and Furbank, plus Mitchell as an apprentice. Francis is still undergoing concussion protocols, Proctor is still injured, Biggar will be with Wales, Hutchinson with Scotland, we are down to 3rd choices.

Locks as well, two first choice (Ribbans in injured) both away, very much second choice going to be playing.

I should appreciate that EJ thinks Saints players are that good, but I now sort of understand the Sarries situation, You lose more than half your first choice players you are going to struggle

Good to see Ollie Thorley in - I'd missed that. Thought he was unlucky McConnochie was preferred in the RWC squads.

I don't understand the Ewels love either. Can any Bath fans enlighten us?

Over all pretty happy with the squad. As stated am surprised about 6 locks and no specialist No8, but apart from that and bearing in mind the various injuries pretty much the squad you would have expected.

Team will largely be that that played in the knockout WC matches, with wild cards called up more for experience.

Beeb article now states that Nowell is down for ankle surgery,

So in reality the talking points are:

TH - Sinckler, Williams, Stuart - Cole dropped if thats actually a talking point
Lock - Itoje, Kruis, Lawes, Launchbury, Ewels, Moon - 6 Locks??
Back row - Curry, Underhill, Ludlam, Earl, Hill - No No.8
SH - Youngs, Heinz - No New Young Sh's
FH -Farrell, Ford, Umaga - Why is the nephew of a kiwi legend in the england squad!! SOrry no, why is Marcus Smith not in?

I wonder with Umaga whether there is a degree of locking him in for England, as he's also qualified for NZ and Samoa. Admittedly he's represented England at U18 and U20, but you never know (cough, Nick Tompkins).

Mitchell is the young SH, with few English SHs playing well.

Could make a good team out of it mind:

01. Mako Vunipola
02. Jamie George
03. Kyle Sinkler
04. Maro Itoje
05. George Kruis
06. Sam Underhill
07. Ben Curry
08. Ben Earl

09. Ben Youngs
10. George Ford

11. Elliott Daly
12. Owen Farrell
13. Manu Tuilagi
14. Jonny May
15. Anthony Watson


Or change up the back line with


09. Ben Youngs
10. Owen Farrell

11. Jonny May
12. Ollie Devoto
13. Manu Tuilagi
14. Anthony Watson
15. George Furbank

After the initial surprise I am quite happy actually. Just wish he could have found a place for the big Quins no.8.

I've said it before, Daly is the perfect bench option for me. He could come on and really change a game.

In fairness, Earl was looking really impressive in the few games I watched earlier in the season, pretty sure he played at 8 for those.

If we get enough power carrying from the front 5 and Manu, I think it'll be an interesting experiment with a more rounded 8. Although knowing Eddie, he'll do something mad like put Ewels there instead

Is Earl or Ludlum good enough carriers for Jones at 8. I guess they are.

Did Dombrandts work rate go against him?

Will the back row be:

6 HIll
7 Curry
8 Earl

I'd be surprised if Underhill and Curry weren't on the flanks against France if fit

Earls is a very good carrier, but England won't be able to employ him in the same fashion that they employ Billy.

What I don't want is for our pack to be out-muscled the way it was in the final. However, France don't have the insane power that the Boks have and once that is negated there is a risk that England will run them ragged.

Earl was playing no8 on Saturday after the Skelton re-shuffle.
Ted Hill must be impressing for Eddie to have a 2nd look at him.

Happy with most of the squad -
Ewells is a bit of a surprise
No specialist no.8 is odd - perhaps waiting for confirmation on Billy (unless he is definitely out).

Still sticking with Youngs and Heinz!!!
Is Ben Spencer injured?

It seems strange thatt Exeter only get 3 call ups when they are the top ( legit ) team in England would have thought Jonnie Hill and the two Simmonds were worth looking at.

Not a bad looking squad, good to see Devoto called up although don't see him playing unless Tuilagi breaks down, pleased to see Marler is carrying on for the time being and against France he could be vital. I wonder if we're going to see Lawes or Itoje at 6 to try and work out a template to negate the Springbok back row in the future?

rosbif wrote:It seems strange thatt Exeter only get 3 call ups when they are the top  ( legit ) team in England  would have thought Jonnie Hill and the two Simmonds were worth looking at.

Slade and Nowell would have been included if not injured.

Rinsure wrote:I wonder with Umaga whether there is a degree of locking him in for England, as he's also qualified for NZ and Samoa. Admittedly he's represented England at U18 and U20, but you never know (cough, Nick Tompkins).

I imagine it's exactly that. If England don't I suspect Samoa will try to in the summer. They've been desperate for a quality flyhalf.

Does Umaga offer anything more than Smith apart from being a little more versatile?

lostinwales wrote:Does Umaga offer anything more than Smith apart from being a little more versatile?

Tougher in defense, from what I've seen. More of a Farrell to Smith's Ford, if that makes sense, in terms of defense. In attack, they both play a very high line, and have good pace and passes. I'd probably give the edge to Smith going forwards - at the moment.

Umaga needs to fill out quite a bit, he'll get bulldozed at test level. 

If Jones were serious about tieing players in he should resurrect the Saxons. 

I suspect this selection is very much one eye on the future, its usual for an extended squad like this to have a couple of players who are there more to get experience of the England set up and feel part of it rather than to be seriously considered as caps in the immediate future. Umagu does tick a lot of the boxes for Jones, Australians cant help themselves around utility backs, but I cant see him as test ready by a long stretch. 

Then again this is Jones so probably has him down as the 8. 

General shape of the squad isnt any great surprise, and the first 15 isnt going to be far off the world cup one as expected. Not taking the opportunity to try a new specialist 8 or Scrum Half is the shock really, and must be quite a sting to those who were thought to have a chance. 

Cole the only big name casualty, no sentimentality there. Id expected him to be kept around the squad for now

propdavid_london wrote:...Ewells is a bit of a surprise...

I think Flatman was singing the praise of Charlie Ewels the other day (unless I have got him mixed up with Dave Ewers again).

Is Ted Hill being groomed for England to have a bigger more physical back row.

He clearly wants that as he has trialled the locks moving there. Finally we have an actual 6 with serious size...

Although i guess that could pave the way for a lighter more mobile skilled 8.

And whats the crack with Will Stuart. Havent seen much of him.

And Can Ted Hill play 8?

GeordieFalcon wrote:And Can Ted Hill play 8?

One suggestion I saw was Hill at 6 and Curry at 8

Yeah I could see hill underhill curry used. Similarly theres a helluva lot of combos that you could come up with from those options. Some great choices.

Curry's Richard Hill impression to possibly continue to improve then