That really grinds my gears thread

[JuliusHMarx]

First topic message reminder :

People who post meaningless posts just to steal the thread split for the Morning Tea Society.

[Duty281]

Millwall are home again tomorrow. QPR, the opposition, will be taking the knee before kick-off, having in previous games not taken the knee.

Cue more booing and more hysteria.

[Pr4wn]

Notice how those that complain about "virtue signaling" are invariably white.

[dummy_half]

Truss

Your comment raises the question of how long something like 'taking the knee' should go on for (and as I put a few comments earlier, I don't agree with this being a mandated thing anyway, beyond maybe the first time).

Football is into a new season, F1 is coming towards the end of theirs. It does feel now like a largely token gesture to keep repeating the same every match / race / event.

Maybe a better approach would be to have one big weekend per season, modelled on the Jane McGrath day done for cancer charities in Australia?

[TRUSSMAN66]

Truss

Your comment raises the question of how long something like 'taking the knee' should go on for (and as I put a few comments earlier, I don't agree with this being a mandated thing anyway, beyond maybe the first time).

Football is into a new season, F1 is coming towards the end of theirs. It does feel now like a largely token gesture to keep repeating the same every match / race / event.

Maybe a better approach would be to have one big weekend per season, modelled on the Jane McGrath day done for cancer charities in Australia?

Good idea....Wouldn't object to that....Put taking a knee in the same bracket as clapping NHS workers...

Taking a knee and clapping don't bring Social justice and Equality...

Policy not gestures...

[TRUSSMAN66]

Notice how those that complain about "virtue signaling" are invariably white.

Moving on..

[navyblueshorts]

The phrase 'Taking a knee', especially in the U.K. - it's ****ing kneeling, kneeled, knelt/knelt down.

[Mind the windows Tino.]

The phrase 'Taking a knee', especially in the U.K. - it's ****ing kneeling, kneeled, knelt/knelt down.

Also, people who say "of a" all the time. As in, "I like to go for a walk of a Wednesday". They can f*ck right off.

[Mind the windows Tino.]

People watching the rugby on Sunday and complaining that Billy Vunipola doesn't bash his way though 3 people every time he has a trundle. You watched that game and that was your complaint.

It's like watching a news report of Fred and Rosemary West but complaining that the grass on the front lawn was too long.

[lfc91]

I've seen some people (Wayne Rooney for example) calling for bans for anyone who boos the new super woke pre-match ritual. Can't wrap my head around that one. Why should one group of people be allowed to make a political statement (kneeling) but anyone who disagrees cant voice their own opinion with a boo? Also slippery slope to start banning fans in stadiums for booing. Football fans love a good boo.

[Samo]

Bin the virtue signalling crap.

I agree, we can start with the poppy.

[Galted]

The way Billy Vunipola doesn't bash his way though 3 people every time he has a trundle. W*nker.

[Galted]

How long the West's front lawn was. If they didn't spend all their time doing patio work it could've been a decent patch of turf. Maybe give it a mow of a Saturday morning.

[JuliusHMarx]

The phrase 'Taking a knee', especially in the U.K. - it's ****ing kneeling, kneeled, knelt/knelt down.

Also, people who say "of a" all the time. As in, "I like to go for a walk of a Wednesday". They can f*ck right off.

Is Thursday OK?

[JuliusHMarx]

I've seen some people (Wayne Rooney for example) calling for bans for anyone who boos the new super woke pre-match ritual. Can't wrap my head around that one. Why should one group of people be allowed to make a political statement (kneeling) but anyone who disagrees cant voice their own opinion with a boo? Also slippery slope to start banning fans in stadiums for booing. Football fans love a good boo.

I think football clubs are privately owned, aren't they? As such they can choose who they do and don't let in, and if they decide based on public opinion, why it that a problem for anyone?

Personally, if someone boos footballers who are making an anti-racist statement, I'd have no problem them being banned from a football ground.
If I stood at the Cenotaph on Remembrance Sunday and booed and heckled the Queen laying a wreath, I expect some people would take offense and request that action be taken against me.

[TRUSSMAN66]

Certainly living in the era of the 'gesture'' aren't we..

Problem is where does it end ??

Clubs are stuck with 'Taking a knee' because should a club not do it they will be called racist...

UK is a dream compared to US States like Texas where if you are black you are guilty until proven innocent.

[JuliusHMarx]

When was there ever not an era of the 'gesture'? Protest movements aren't anything new, it's just that we now live in an era of 24 hours news and social media which saturate the coverage.

[TRUSSMAN66]

I don't remember virtue signalling like clapping for public service workers and kneeling before games for Black lives before.

Please correct me..

[JuliusHMarx]

You don't think that wearing a poppy is virtue signalling?

[TRUSSMAN66]

Not really comparable to clapping outside your door...Julius.

We have Veteran's day and people wear red..white and blue ribbons..

Respecting the fallen in a war that cost millions of lives is a little different to clapping Nurses and teaching the 0.1% population of racist Brits to respect Black People by kneeling.

But we can disagree.

[Duty281]

Certainly living in the era of the 'gesture'' aren't we..

And the rainbow nonsense. Rainbow laces. Rainbow armbands. Rainbow scoreboards. All nonsense.

Still, least that's only for 10 days.

[JuliusHMarx]

Not really comparable to clapping outside your door...Julius.

We have Veteran's day and people wear red..white and blue ribbons..

Respecting the fallen in a war that cost millions of lives is a little different to clapping Nurses and teaching the 0.1% population of racist Brits  to respect Black People by kneeling.

But we can disagree.

Respecting the fallen isn't virtue signalling. But do it privately, don't virtue signal by publicly wearing a poppy.
Or do virtue signal by wearing a poppy, but don't hypocritically criticise others for publicly supporting something they believe in.

[JuliusHMarx]

Certainly living in the era of the 'gesture'' aren't we..

And the rainbow nonsense. Rainbow laces. Rainbow armbands. Rainbow scoreboards. All nonsense.

Still, least that's only for 10 days.

Like those cricket matches where they all wear pink. Nonsense.

[Duty281]

Millwall are home again tomorrow. QPR, the opposition, will be taking the knee before kick-off, having in previous games not taken the knee.

Cue more booing and more hysteria.

Millwall won't be taking the knee. Some QPR players will also not be taking the knee. Instead they'll link arms and hold some banner showing an anti-racist commitment.

Cue widespread applause at The Den.

[Soul Requiem]

Not really comparable to clapping outside your door...Julius.

We have Veteran's day and people wear red..white and blue ribbons..

Respecting the fallen in a war that cost millions of lives is a little different to clapping Nurses and teaching the 0.1% population of racist Brits  to respect Black People by kneeling.

But we can disagree.

Remembering those who paid the ultimate price fighting for the very freedoms we have today is not virtue signalling.

[superflyweight]

Millwall are home again tomorrow. QPR, the opposition, will be taking the knee before kick-off, having in previous games not taken the knee.

Cue more booing and more hysteria.

Millwall won't be taking the knee. Some QPR players will also not be taking the knee. Instead they'll link arms and hold some banner showing an anti-racist commitment.

Cue widespread applause at The Den.

Won't be kneeling but will be be bowing down to racists.

[JuliusHMarx]

Millwall are home again tomorrow. QPR, the opposition, will be taking the knee before kick-off, having in previous games not taken the knee.

Cue more booing and more hysteria.

Millwall won't be taking the knee. Some QPR players will also not be taking the knee. Instead they'll link arms and hold some banner showing an anti-racist commitment.

Cue widespread applause at The Den.

Won't be kneeling but will be be bowing down to racists.

Cue widespread applause at Duty's house

[superflyweight]

Bin the virtue signalling crap.

I agree, we can start with the poppy.

... and then that pledging allegiance to the flag nonsense that they go in for in America.

[JuliusHMarx]

Those USA flag lapel badges as well.

[lfc91]

I've seen some people (Wayne Rooney for example) calling for bans for anyone who boos the new super woke pre-match ritual. Can't wrap my head around that one. Why should one group of people be allowed to make a political statement (kneeling) but anyone who disagrees cant voice their own opinion with a boo? Also slippery slope to start banning fans in stadiums for booing. Football fans love a good boo.

I think football clubs are privately owned, aren't they? As such they can choose who they do and don't let in, and if they decide based on public opinion, why it that a problem for anyone?

Personally, if someone boos footballers who are making an anti-racist statement, I'd have no problem them being banned from a football ground.
If I stood at the Cenotaph on Remembrance Sunday and booed and heckled the Queen laying a wreath, I expect some people would take offense and request that action be taken against me.

Yes of course they can, as you have rightly pointed out being privately owned. Guess the alternative is for any fans who have that big a problem with it can vote with their wallet, stop going to games and cancel all their subscriptions.

Think a big part of the issue is now is that the act of taking a knee is so interwoven with the BLM political movement (that the premier league et al have tried so hard to distance themselves from) that a lot of people don't want to accept that groups gesture being forced down their throat by the premier league. Also the fact that anyone who disagrees with the gesture being labelled a racist doesn't exactly help thing much.

Sadly in this day in age (the twitter era) there is usually no point trying to engage with the other side on any issue. Any disagreement and you must be a racist, sexist, transphope etc.

Like it or not this is and has been an extremely divisive issue almost from the get go. Couple that with the point people have made about it being a seemly empty gesture now, I cant see it lasting much longer. Just have to hope that any and all positive changes around removing racism from the game that have been sparked by the actions last number of months can be continued and built upon in the years ahead.

[Pr4wn]

I've seen some people (Wayne Rooney for example) calling for bans for anyone who boos the new super woke pre-match ritual. Can't wrap my head around that one. Why should one group of people be allowed to make a political statement (kneeling) but anyone who disagrees cant voice their own opinion with a boo? Also slippery slope to start banning fans in stadiums for booing. Football fans love a good boo.

I think football clubs are privately owned, aren't they? As such they can choose who they do and don't let in, and if they decide based on public opinion, why it that a problem for anyone?

Personally, if someone boos footballers who are making an anti-racist statement, I'd have no problem them being banned from a football ground.
If I stood at the Cenotaph on Remembrance Sunday and booed and heckled the Queen laying a wreath, I expect some people would take offense and request that action be taken against me.

Yes of course they can, as you have rightly pointed out being privately owned. Guess the alternative is for any fans who have that big a problem with it can vote with their wallet, stop going to games and cancel all their subscriptions.

Think a big part of the issue is now is that the act of taking a knee is so interwoven with the BLM political movement (that the premier league et al have tried so hard to distance themselves from) that a lot of people don't want to accept that groups gesture being forced down their throat by the premier league. Also the fact that anyone who disagrees with the gesture being labelled a racist doesn't exactly help thing much.

Sadly in this day in age (the twitter era) there is usually no point trying to engage with the other side on any issue. Any disagreement and you must be a racist, sexist, transphope etc.

Like it or not this is and has been an extremely divisive issue almost from the get go. Couple that with the point people have made about it being a seemly empty gesture now, I cant see it lasting much longer. Just have to hope that any and all positive changes around removing racism from the game that have been sparked by the actions last number of months can be continued and built upon in the years ahead.

Which they won't.

[Pr4wn]

If there was a "Me Too" protest happening in my city and I organized and underwent a counter-protest by booing them, I'd rightly be called a sexist. The same standards apply here.

Also, the gesture is not being forced down anyone's throat. As you've written above in the very same post, fans are free to tune out or not attend the games. But they won't do any of that, they'll just moan about it.

[Pr4wn]

This is actually pretty funny: https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2020/dec/08/david-squires-on-the-booing-of-footballers-taking-a-knee

[lfc91]

I've seen some people (Wayne Rooney for example) calling for bans for anyone who boos the new super woke pre-match ritual. Can't wrap my head around that one. Why should one group of people be allowed to make a political statement (kneeling) but anyone who disagrees cant voice their own opinion with a boo? Also slippery slope to start banning fans in stadiums for booing. Football fans love a good boo.

I think football clubs are privately owned, aren't they? As such they can choose who they do and don't let in, and if they decide based on public opinion, why it that a problem for anyone?

Personally, if someone boos footballers who are making an anti-racist statement, I'd have no problem them being banned from a football ground.
If I stood at the Cenotaph on Remembrance Sunday and booed and heckled the Queen laying a wreath, I expect some people would take offense and request that action be taken against me.

Yes of course they can, as you have rightly pointed out being privately owned. Guess the alternative is for any fans who have that big a problem with it can vote with their wallet, stop going to games and cancel all their subscriptions.

Think a big part of the issue is now is that the act of taking a knee is so interwoven with the BLM political movement (that the premier league et al have tried so hard to distance themselves from) that a lot of people don't want to accept that groups gesture being forced down their throat by the premier league. Also the fact that anyone who disagrees with the gesture being labelled a racist doesn't exactly help thing much.

Sadly in this day in age (the twitter era) there is usually no point trying to engage with the other side on any issue. Any disagreement and you must be a racist, sexist, transphope etc.

Like it or not this is and has been an extremely divisive issue almost from the get go. Couple that with the point people have made about it being a seemly empty gesture now, I cant see it lasting much longer. Just have to hope that any and all positive changes around removing racism from the game that have been sparked by the actions last number of months can be continued and built upon in the years ahead.

Which they won't.

No, can't imagine many hardcore fans being able to disconnect from their club in such a way. Guessing maybe slightly more might have cancelled subscriptions lately, but thats due to other means of watching being readily available.

[lfc91]

If there was a "Me Too" protest happening in my city and I organized and underwent a counter-protest by booing them, I'd rightly be called a sexist. The same standards apply here.

Also, the gesture is not being forced down anyone's throat. As you've written above in the very same post, fans are free to tune out or not attend the games. But they won't do any of that, they'll just moan about it.

Not comparable in my opinion. Be more like booing a very specific action taken during the me too protest. E.g. its perfectly possible for a person to support everything about a campaign to end racism, but disagree with the action of taking a knee because it was hijacked by the BLM political organisation, which most moderate observers can probably agree...are absolute lunatics.

Yes, If you want to continue to watch football you will continue to have certain political opinions forced down your throat. Although I don't disagree, people have free will and can choose not to watch or attend if they don't like it.

[superflyweight]

This is actually pretty funny: https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2020/dec/08/david-squires-on-the-booing-of-footballers-taking-a-knee

It's very good. David Squires is routinely excellent.

[TRUSSMAN66]

85p for a first class stamp....Never been so grateful I don't have many friends at Christmas time....

Though not being able to fly to Logan this year has saved me a portion so I shouldn't complain...

Thank goodness for modern techniques of communication.

[superflyweight]

85p for a first class stamp....Never been so grateful I don't have many friends at Christmas time....

Though not being able to fly to Logan this year has saved me a portion so I shouldn't complain...

Thank goodness for modern techniques of communication.

Does this mean I won't be getting card from you this year?

[TRUSSMAN66]

85p for a first class stamp....Never been so grateful I don't have many friends at Christmas time....

Though not being able to fly to Logan this year has saved me a portion so I shouldn't complain...

Thank goodness for modern techniques of communication.

Does this mean I won't be getting card from you this year?  

You will be down one card and your Wife will be down one present.

[Duty281]

F**king breakdancing in the Olympics. Actually, I've got nothing against breakdancing, or climbing, or surfing, or even bloody skateboarding, but squash continually loses out.

What do the IOC have against this noble racquet sport? Squash has lost out in the past to golf, softball, rugby sevens, BMX, now it's lost to this lot.

Doubtless chess, parkour and doing up Fred West's garden will all be included in the Olympics before squash ever is.

[alfie]

Tokyo missed a trick. Could have included Competitive Karaoke.

[Pal Joey]

Tokyo missed a trick. Could have included Competitive Karaoke.

I'm surprised KonMari (the art of clothes folding) didn't make it as a demonstration sport.

[dummy_half]

F**king breakdancing in the Olympics. Actually, I've got nothing against breakdancing, or climbing, or surfing, or even bloody skateboarding, but squash continually loses out.

What do the IOC have against this noble racquet sport? Squash has lost out in the past to golf, softball, rugby sevens, BMX, now it's lost to this lot.

Doubtless chess, parkour and doing up Fred West's garden will all be included in the Olympics before squash ever is.

Sport climbing definitely has a place - it's a significant international sport that will benefit from greater exposure.

Not so convinced about surfing, skate-boarding etc which are based on subjective judgement. However, absolutely with you regarding squash - again a significant international sport; just checked the (mens) rankings, and they are dominated currently by Egyptian players, but the top 20 includes players from Peru, Germany, NZ, UK, Colombia, India and France. Women's rankings also have USA and Canadian players in their top 20.

[navyblueshorts]

Bin the virtue signalling crap.

I agree, we can start with the poppy.

If it's all the same to you, I'll stick w/ this one. Yes, there are some Remembrance mafiosi now, but that's not what I'm wearing one for.

[Samo]

Bin the virtue signalling crap.

I agree, we can start with the poppy.

If it's all the same to you, I'll stick w/ this one. Yes, there are some Remembrance mafiosi now, but that's not what I'm wearing one for.

What are you wearing it for?

[navyblueshorts]

Bin the virtue signalling crap.

I agree, we can start with the poppy.

If it's all the same to you, I'll stick w/ this one. Yes, there are some Remembrance mafiosi now, but that's not what I'm wearing one for.

What are you wearing it for?

Me? I'm wearing it to honour what the forces have done over the years to ensure we have a free society and for the sacrifices they made. Nothing to do w/ any politics or right/wrong of actual conflicts - just those who've actually served in the forces. Up to me and I don't give a 4X what anyone else thinks.

[Samo]

Bin the virtue signalling crap.

I agree, we can start with the poppy.

If it's all the same to you, I'll stick w/ this one. Yes, there are some Remembrance mafiosi now, but that's not what I'm wearing one for.

What are you wearing it for?

Me? I'm wearing it to honour what the forces have done over the years to ensure we have a free society and for the sacrifices they made. Nothing to do w/ any politics or right/wrong of actual conflicts - just those who've actually served in the forces. Up to me and I don't give a 4X what anyone else thinks.

I guess Im just confused as to why kneeling to show solidarity against racism is an empty gesture but wearing a poppy isnt.

[Soul Requiem]

My donations to the British legion are indeed an empty gesture

[Samo]

My donations to the British legion are indeed an empty gesture

I never said they were?

[navyblueshorts]

Bin the virtue signalling crap.

I agree, we can start with the poppy.

If it's all the same to you, I'll stick w/ this one. Yes, there are some Remembrance mafiosi now, but that's not what I'm wearing one for.

What are you wearing it for?

Me? I'm wearing it to honour what the forces have done over the years to ensure we have a free society and for the sacrifices they made. Nothing to do w/ any politics or right/wrong of actual conflicts - just those who've actually served in the forces. Up to me and I don't give a 4X what anyone else thinks.

I guess Im just confused as to why kneeling to show solidarity against racism is an empty gesture but wearing a poppy isnt.

I understand what you're saying and I think it's true somewhat that poppy wearing has been politicised over the recent past. See John Snow(?) etc not wearing one and the inevitable backlash. I got 'tutted' once not so long ago when not choosing to stand still at 11.00 one Remembrance Sunday in town (I was in a hurry), which wasn't Nov 11th. The morally superior may have overlooked that I did my 2 mins silence that year on the actual Armistice, not on the following Sunday. As an atheist, I don't have a great deal of time w/ Sundays as some sort of special day.

If kneeling (not 'taking a chuffing knee') means something to someone, then happy for them to knock themselves out doing so. I guess what I object to is those that, say, support kneeling/BLM sounding off at anyone who chooses not to adopt their gesture. They can **** right off. That sort of self-righteousness is a modern plague and it's about time it stopped.

[Samo]

Bin the virtue signalling crap.

I agree, we can start with the poppy.

If it's all the same to you, I'll stick w/ this one. Yes, there are some Remembrance mafiosi now, but that's not what I'm wearing one for.

What are you wearing it for?

Me? I'm wearing it to honour what the forces have done over the years to ensure we have a free society and for the sacrifices they made. Nothing to do w/ any politics or right/wrong of actual conflicts - just those who've actually served in the forces. Up to me and I don't give a 4X what anyone else thinks.

I guess Im just confused as to why kneeling to show solidarity against racism is an empty gesture but wearing a poppy isnt.

I understand what you're saying and I think it's true somewhat that poppy wearing has been politicised over the recent past. See John Snow(?) etc not wearing one and the inevitable backlash. I got 'tutted' once not so long ago when not choosing to stand still at 11.00 one Remembrance Sunday in town (I was in a hurry), which wasn't Nov 11th. The morally superior may have overlooked that I did my 2 mins silence that year on the actual Armistice, not on the following Sunday. As an atheist, I don't have a great deal of time w/ Sundays as some sort of special day.

If kneeling (not 'taking a chuffing knee') means something to someone, then happy for them to knock themselves out doing so. I guess what I object to is those that, say, support kneeling/BLM sounding off at anyone who chooses not to adopt their gesture. They can **** right off. That sort of self-righteousness is a modern plague and it's about time it stopped.

You’ll get no argument from me there on either points. My initial point was more about the hypocrisy of some who complain about BLM virtue signalling but almost ritualistically do their own form of virtue signalling every year but think thats fine because its something they agree with.

It all comes down to live and let live for me. Do what you want as long as it doesnt hurt anyone. And if you do have a problem with it, keep your mouth shut because 9/10 you’ll end up looking like an arse.

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