Wales v England, Parc y Scarlets, 28th November 16:00

First topic message reminder :

England have been pretty comfortable so far clearly led by a set of forwards performing brilliantly. Breakdown, lineout, scrum, everything has been smooth and frankly dominant.

The backs continue to stutter looking for a bit of cohesion, perhaps unsurprisingly to an extent given there have been shuffles to selections. We've perhaps learnt that Furbank isnt good enough for international rugby and that having a winger play on the wing is sometimes a good thing. Obviously this means Jones will ignore that.

One guy completely set in stone is May who moved to joint second highest try scorer for England though. Always lightening but added so much to his game. Hes been relatively quiet this year but excellent yesterday. Quotes from Jones via  the bbc "The great thing is he is 30 and still improving,"
"There is no limit to where he can go. I don't think I have ever seen a player who is more professional in his preparation than Jonny. He is fast and elusive, at one stage it looked like he had spiders all over him."

He was always playing well when he got his england chance but obviously the best players continue to improve. You would normally say first name on the team sheet but theres about 5 of them at the moment.

Jones also said: 'We put ourselves in a good position to maybe go on and dominate. We didn't, but there is a lot more in us, which is pleasing," added Jones, who was named England head coach five years ago on Friday.

"Defence was pretty good but we are disappointed with the try at the end. We'd have liked to have a clean sheet, as they say in football, but we are improving. I particularly liked the ferocity of our ruck defence today."

"Wales is a massive game," added Jones. "If they have one game a year to save their season, it is against England. There is intense rivalry, the Scarlets' ground is an open one, so the elements will affect the game. It will be tough and we will pick our best 23 again."

Seems to me hes also a touch annoyed we didnt add more to the scoreboard and nil Ireland. Great defence clearly in the 2nd half but we struggled for field possession. The last sentence for me could be a bit misleading as it suggests the same team and bench for Wales, cant help but feel there'll be 2 or 3 changes though.


Again from the beeb it looks like Wales have a few injuries and doubts for the game: Tipuric was forced off the field in the second half, while Wales full-back Liam Williams also left the field with 15 stitches in his mouth after a stray boot but should be fit to face England. Wing Johnny McNicholl also departed with a rib cartilage issue.

Bath number eight Taulupe Faletau will be fit after recovering from injury, while Cardiff Blues back-rower Josh Navidi is battling to be in contention after missing the autumn programme so far with his own concussion issues.

Ross Moriarty is sidelined with an ankle problem.

Dragons back-rower Aaron Wainwright was handed the man-of-the-match accolade against Georgia after an impressive performance at number eight with Pivac believing this should be his long-term position.

"I personally like him at eight," added Pivac.

"I prefer him at eight to six. He gets his hands on the ball, he has very good acceleration out of the boot.

"You saw some of those skills tonight and I like him in that position."

Wales have an outside centre void to fill missing against England with Jonathan Davies set to miss the game with a knee problem. Johnny Williams impressed at inside centre on his debut.'

All set for a comfortable Wales win then.


Teams

Wales

TBC


England

Daly; Joseph, Slade, Farrell, May; Ford, Youngs; M Vunipola, George, Sinckler, Itoje, Launchbury, Curry, Underhill, B Vunipola.

Replacements: Cowan-Dickie, Genge, Stuart, Hill, Earl, Willis, Robson, Watson

Biggar is always a key figure in these games...

Halfpenny missing as well!

Strange days indeed

Faz and Halfpenny both missing kicks 

The TMO should stop interfering for every little thing. Particularly when he can't tell the difference between George and Vunipola.

Halfpenny at it now too, must be the lack of high stadium stands

Biggar ran in to his own player...isn't that a free kick or pen?

Some of these Amazon camera angles are very strange

Great turnover, that probably saved a try

Ford ran away from his support, bit silly there

The difference in the offload game between the two sides is really telling.

Far too many unforced errors. Playing just too frantic. Relax, go though the phases................

Kicking from first phase is so frustrating.

Why do i keep getitng the feel that this is like an U20 or Saxons level game...

Scottrf wrote:Kicking from first phase is so frustrating.

Agree. What's the benefit? Unless Eddie wants them to play without the ball and wait for errors? I agree with you though, let them play............

doctor_grey wrote:

Scottrf wrote:Kicking from first phase is so frustrating.

Agree.  What's the benefit?  Unless Eddie wants them to play without the ball and wait for errors?  I agree with you though, let them play............

It's a large part of the Jones game plan. A way of using the defensive strength as a means of scoring points. Turnover penalties and turnover ball being a good means of forcing scoring opportunities.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Why do i keep getitng the feel that this is like an U20 or Saxons level game...

I was thinking similar, it's the stadium, obviously can't be helped with the circumstances but even without fans it just looks odd!

Two good tries so far by both team's . Wales putting some good tackles.

Why did Alun Wyn Jones choose the career of a player, when he clearly wants to be a referee?

Okay but we are making territory with it going through the hands and the only time Wales have scored or look like scoring is from our kick. Let them defend and tire.

No knock on from the hand coming in there?

Wales have been really good fielding kicks, we need to find the gaps or keep it in hand

BamBam wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Why do i keep getitng the feel that this is like an U20 or Saxons level game...

I was thinking similar, it's the stadium, obviously can't be helped with the circumstances but even without fans it just looks odd!

Glad its not just me

This just looks so fraught and ragged from England. It's frustrating given that the often turgid kicking game is meant to make them a clinical unit.

Duty281 wrote:Why did Alun Wyn Jones choose the career of a player, when he clearly wants to be a referee?

Have you not got your volume on? Fed up hearing Itoje screaming at the opposition, e.g. ‘use it, use it’. Ref needs to have a word with him.

Yeah both sides trying to force it too much

Gooseberry wrote:Yeah both sides trying to force it too much

Agree. But for England, they need to keep it simpler, just take their time and go through the phases. No wild passes, and certainly let's hold the ball and not kick it away as if it is coated with an STD.............

Hmmm that was a coin toss of a penalty

Time the ref took action, the Welsh scrum is poor

Not sure about that one. Looked like the same thing (England prop falling flat on his face lying flat) Lee was pinged for earlier?

No surprise the headless chicken/deer in the headlights has made his mind up on which way to ping scrums.

Wales scrum's are terrible. surely a card will come out soon if it keeps going down like it does.

Farrell kicks the goal

11-7 England

Scoreboard not really telling the tale of the half

Harsh call on thst scrum mind...

That's the sort of penalty that often goes either way. Samson Lee 'hinges' and drops when Mako starts moving forward but Mako's feet are a long way back and slip out. We all complain about reset scrums but some should just be reset IMO...

What England look good at is offensive defence, but Wales can't hold onto the ball long enough for that side of the England game to come through.

Wales defense is strong. Some holes appearing but nothing open for long enough for England to really capitalise.

king_carlos wrote:That's the sort of penalty that often goes either way. Samson Lee 'hinges' and drops when Mako starts moving forward but Mako's feet are a long way back and slip out. We all complain about reset scrums but some should just be reset IMO...

Yeah I agree, but it was the exact same thing Flatman highlighted earlier. He said it’s always obvious when one prop is lying flat on the floor and the other still has studs in the ground. This was jus there reverse but it still went against Wales! Frustrating.

This is anti rugby. England should be 40 points up judging by how the media were talking it up.

England leaving a lot of points on the field again.

Kick less. Run more. Win the game.

Seems as if the Crowd is enjoying it, they cheer for every kick

Wales new commers are really standing up[ netter than i thought they would,

England just in the lead at the break need to play better in the second half.

majesticimperialman wrote:Wales scrum's are terrible. surely a card will come out soon if it keeps going down like it does.

Agree, but for some reason, I doubt this ref will call it. He seems happy enough to let things roll as they are.
Seems to be calling the breakdown penalties even faster (in some cases) than I have seen in other games since the re-start, as well as in the Super rugby this year..

Both team are well below par.

The Oracle wrote:

king_carlos wrote:That's the sort of penalty that often goes either way. Samson Lee 'hinges' and drops when Mako starts moving forward but Mako's feet are a long way back and slip out. We all complain about reset scrums but some should just be reset IMO...

Yeah I agree, but it was the exact same thing Flatman highlighted earlier. He said it’s always obvious when one prop is lying flat on the floor and the other still has studs in the ground. This was jus there reverse but it still went against Wales! Frustrating.

I missed the first 10 minutes so didn't see the earlier pen.

The one difference in that later penalty from a refs perspective to some scrum collapses where a player engages long (i.e. Mako's feet a long way behind him) is that Mako started moving forward just as they went to ground. If a prop has his studs a long way back, with the scrum going nowhere and he goes down then the pen will almost always go against him. As Mako just (only just, splitting hairs I accept) starting shifting forwards as he went down and Lee hinged maybe he got the benefit of the doubt.

As said I didn't see the earlier pen so can't comment on whether Lee was moving forward on that occasion though.

For me it's a reset scrum. That's the difficulty for refs though. If you reset noones happy and the commentators berate it. If you penalise noones happy and commentators berate it.

This is a scenario where I'd like to see Jones make the front row subs earlier to really target the scrum. It's what Erasmus did in the RWC final with the Boks pack on top to maintain that dominance. Get a message on to Mako, George and Sinckler to empty the tank in the next 5-10 minutes then bring on Genge, LCD and Stuart who are all in good form and strong scrummagers.

Walesare surely missing Ken Owens at line out time.i

Christ. Wales had to drive England back to their own line to even get a hint of a scrum for a held up maul.

England keep the ball in the maul like that a lot. I think it's a tactical call with the upside of a potential England penalty if the maul regains momentum offsetting the possibility of a scrum for the opposition. It frustrates me though and frequently squanders attacking positions.

RiscaGame wrote:Christ. Wales had to drive England back to their own line to even get a hint of a scrum for a held up maul.

I think Poite was waiting to see if Wales could get the ball out and counterattack to be fair given it looked like they'd stripped it. As it's the same maul and England took it in they got the scrum though once it came to a halt. I was worried that the England players weren't playing till the whistle and thought that Wales might break tbh.

Great defensive set there before the kick from Youngs, sent them from close to our 22 back to their 10m line then the charge down