Glasgow and Edinburgh Ongoing Banter Thread 26

by Hazel Sapling Mon 01 Feb 2021, 12:12 pm

First topic message reminder :

A continuation on previous threads discussing the past, the present and the future of Scottish rugby. A dose a day, keeps optimism away

Halfway through a Covid season and not far from the Rainbow cups, both teams are on the precipice of missing out on the top tier in Europe next year. The Rainbow Cup is a well thought out idea of including sides from South Africa, the home to a new Covid variant that vaccines may not work on, with international travel involving several regions of Europe.

Glasgow Squad

LH: Kebble, Bhatti, Lambert
Hooker: F Brown, Turner, Stewart, Matthews,
TH: Z Fagerson, Berghan, Pieretto, McCallum, McQuillan
Locks: Cummings, R Gray, Harley, McDonald, Bain, Bean
Back Row: Wilson, Gordon, M Fagerson, Darge, Dempsey, Miller, G Brown

SH: Price, G Horne, Dobie, Kennedy
FH: Weir, Miotti, P Horne, Thompson
Centres: S Johnson, McDowall, Tuipulotu, Grigg, Fergusson
Back Three: McLean, Forbes, McKay, Cancelliere, Tagive, Steyn, O Smith

Edinburgh Squad

LH: Schoeman, Venter, Grahamslaw
Hooker: McInally, Cherry, McBurney, Harrison
TH: Nel, De Bruin, Atalifo, Williams
Locks: Gilchrist, Toolis, Young, Hodgson, Sykes, Phillips
Back Row: Mata, Ritchie, Watson, Bradbury, Crosbie, Haining, Boyle, Kunavula, Muncaster

SH: Pyrgos, Vellacott, Shiel
FH: VDW, Chamberlain, Savala
Centres: Lang, Taylor, Bennett, Dean, Johnstone, Venter, Currie, Hutchison
Back Three: Graham, Kinghorn, Hoyland, Blain, Bofelli, Moyano, Immelman, Owsley

Previous Thread
https://www.606v2.com/t69760-the-glasgow-and-edinburgh-general-chat-discussions-are-limited-to-6-people-before-10pm-to-prevent-the-spread-of-jimboish
https://www.606v2.com/t69555-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-24-covid-funtimes?highlight=banter
https://www.606v2.com/t69038-glasgow-and-edinburgh-banter-thread-no-23-new-season-new-thread?highlight=banter

by EST Sat 13 Mar 2021, 8:23 am

I really enjoyed that game last night, both teams tried to play in difficult conditions. Credit to the O's, they had even more kids out than us and I thought were very good in large parts - their 10 was particularly impressive.

From a Glasgow perspective the young guys are really fronting up - McLean, Dobie and Thompson were all very good. I feel sorry for Smith, thats two cards in successive games (tonights was very unlucky I thought), but I certainly think he has shown enough to think he will come good.

Upfront, the old battlers Harley and Wilson really are turning up this year - they have held things together during a tough period. Pierreto is starting to show his worth and Gordon continues to put in solid performances. Given his recent performances, i'm not sad at all to lose Naks to Ulster, but he is at least slowly starting to improve game by game - if he can ramp things up over the next couple of games that will be a good outcome.

Overall you can definitely see what type of game plan Wilson is trying to impart - dialling down the all-court ambition of Rennies team and playing within a more pragmatic structure. There are far too many instances of ill discipline and sloppy defence, but there are signs that it's coming together.

If we can finish the season with two wins that would be great, and give us a chance for champions cup qualifications. It would be good for the club to be there in terms of attracting talent, but from a purely playing perspective i'm not actually fussed if we don't make it - a year in the Challenge cup would be a good laugh with this young team, and maybe the level of competition they need just now.

by jimbopip Sat 13 Mar 2021, 8:32 am

It is possible that Meatball's injury is worse than we're hearing.
Also, who is Scotland's third 10? I'd rather see Thompson in the squad than VDW. The SafferLuvvie hasn't shown anything other than being capable in " a proper rugby team that did the basics", as Tigettattie so eloquently puts it.
I may be projecting my own bias here, but I get the feeling that one of the big differences between DR and DW is that DW won't have his first XV who he picks no matter what, rather he will pick on form. So yes, Meatball and Domingo may both feel they have been signed to be the starting 10 but they will have to earn the jersey every week.

by **BigGee** Sat 13 Mar 2021, 8:44 am

I am not worried about a battle for the starting FH spot, there will be enough game time for all three of them and it will mean no great drop off when one is resred or injured.

Thompson is still very early in his development and will have games, like last week when things stop working for him. He is doing well at the moment but mainly against weaker sides. It won't do him any harm at all to continue to develop alongside 2 other decent players.

by jimbopip Sat 13 Mar 2021, 8:47 am

Spot on Gee, so Thompson starting in all the 1872 games next season.

by **RDW** Sat 13 Mar 2021, 8:50 am

jimbopip wrote:Spot on Gee, so Thompson starting in all the 1872 games next season.

Waaaaay

by tigertattie Sat 13 Mar 2021, 9:58 am

RDW wrote:Bit late to the party but been thinking about the Argentinian 10 signed for Glasgow. At his age and international experience I'm sure he'll have signed on the basis of being first choice, but what about Weir and Thompson? Weir's not going to be away with Scotland barring injuries and Thompson is a couple of years off yet.

It will be a shame if Thompson gets little gametime next year because of those two.

Glasgow perhaps overcompensating a bit for the lack of 10s this year!

It’s weir that I feel for. I think he was signed in a rush by Glasgow to get a 10, any 10 for next season. A case of break glass in the event of emergency. Then this Argentine 10 appears and I think Glasgow may have tried to return weir had they kept the receipt.

by **BigGee** Sat 13 Mar 2021, 9:43 pm

What about that then, Nathan Chamberlain scores under the posts at the death from a great run and kicks the conversion to win the game.

Cockers needs to keep more of an eye on this young lad, he had a good game.

Edinburgh made hard work of it, as you would expect, but a good win in the end

by funnyExiledScot Sat 13 Mar 2021, 10:18 pm

Chamberlain had a great game. The lad has gas and composure! He could give Jaco a real challenge next season.

Shiel struggled again. He really has to learn how to box kick efficiently. Far too slow.

Davidson put in a huge shift, as did Willemse. Miller was decent at 7, and Mata is definitely getting back to speed with things.

Very handy win that.

by **NeilyBroon** Sun 14 Mar 2021, 9:59 am

Chamberlain was very impressive at U20s and was first choice with Thompson benching. It wouldn't be a stretch to imagine that pairing a few years down the line for Scotland when Adam is perhaps retiring (weird thought right now but really makes you think how short a pro rugby career is!).

by Hazel Sapling Mon 15 Mar 2021, 10:49 am

NeilyBroon wrote:Chamberlain was very impressive at U20s and was first choice with Thompson benching. It wouldn't be a stretch to imagine that pairing a few years down the line for Scotland when Adam is perhaps retiring (weird thought right now but really makes you think how short a pro rugby career is!).

Weir - 1991
Russell - 1992
VDW - 1994
Hastings - 1996
Thompson - 1999
Chamberlain - 2000

- Weir and Russell will be around until 2025 though Russell may have the ability to play until he is 35 at RWC 2027.
- VDW and Hastings will both be around until RWC 2027 with Hastings trying to get on a Lions tour in 2029 or RWC 2031 as he also has the potential for a long career depending on injury

I think both Thompson and Chamberlain will be fighting it out with Hastings as opposed to waiting for him to retire. Not a bad stock heading out to RWC2027 if Thompson and Chamberlain can turn into international calibre fly halfs.

by **BigGee** Mon 15 Mar 2021, 1:57 pm

Glasgow give a full time contract to the hooker, Johnny Mathews.

He has taken his chance and done well this year, good luck to him with this opportunity.

by **RDW** Tue 16 Mar 2021, 9:17 am

Cockers rumoured as being on the shortlist for the Clermont job. I think I'd like him to stay, but also wouldn't be too gutted if he left.

I'm sure it will be be a dilemma for him - he's made no secret of the fact his family is very settled here. Conversely, he may be learning that he's probably taken Edinburgh as far as he ever will. That might be ok for him though given how family situation, as I'm sure there will be big jobs available in 2 years time when his contract expires.

by **NeilyBroon** Tue 16 Mar 2021, 9:45 am

My worry is the SRU will promote Hodge to the role if cockers leaves, which wouldn't do anyone any favours. That being said it'd be enough to expose how poor a coach he is that he'd get the sack quicker.

by EST Tue 16 Mar 2021, 9:57 am

I actually think it might be time for Cockers to move on, there is no doubt he was the perfect man for the job at the time, but I do wonder if his gameplan has taken Edinburgh as far as they can go.

by Hazel Sapling Tue 16 Mar 2021, 10:01 am

Cockerill has not evolved too much as a coach judging by the game plan and he may feel that is the next challenge now that Edinburgh is definitively his squad of players. If he leaves to Clermont, it is back to square 1.

On the other hand, the improved salary, playing & coaching budgets, weather and expectations may tempt him.

by **RDW** Tue 16 Mar 2021, 10:04 am

Worth saying it may be nonsense - he's been rumoured for pretty much any big job that has come up over the last few years!

by EST Tue 16 Mar 2021, 11:02 am

Hazel Sapling wrote:Cockerill has not evolved too much as a coach judging by the game plan and he may feel that is the next challenge now that Edinburgh is definitively his squad of players. If he leaves to Clermont, it is back to square 1.

On the other hand, the improved salary, playing & coaching budgets, weather and expectations may tempt him.

He hasn't evolved much since the mid 00's Hazel! Leicester tried via the backdoor to progress their gameplan when Mauger joined, and we all know how well that went.

It's odd saying I wouldn't mind seeing him go, given how much of a basket case they were when he arrived, but they are playing some truly turgid stuff just now and have regressed a lot from last season.

by jimbopip Tue 16 Mar 2021, 12:16 pm

EST wrote:
Hazel Sapling wrote:Cockerill has not evolved too much as a coach judging by the game plan and he may feel that is the next challenge now that Edinburgh is definitively his squad of players. If he leaves to Clermont, it is back to square 1.

On the other hand, the improved salary, playing & coaching budgets, weather and expectations may tempt him.

He hasn't evolved much since the mid 00's Hazel! Cockers is a former front row; it is tantamount to bullying to use the words "hasn't evolved much" when referring to aging former front rows. You're criticising him for failing to do something which he is genetically incapable of. It's like scolding a three toed sloth for not forging a career in Computer Programming. Leicester tried via the backdoor to progress their gameplan when Mauger joined, and we all know how well that went.

It's odd saying I wouldn't mind seeing him go, given how much of a basket case they were when he arrived, but they are playing some truly turgid stuff just now and have regressed a lot from last season.

by bsando Tue 16 Mar 2021, 12:36 pm

Pre Ulster in the Pro14 semi last year Edinburgh were at a pretty good place. It seemed to all go backwards from there for some reason. Edinburgh needed a good kick up the backside after Solomons pre retirement plan went sour.

Personally I think Cockers is still the right coach but we need a better backline tactics to help progress the dogged, forwards based coaching style Cockers enjoys. Unlike Glasgow where the backs were doing all the magic for a while it's the reverse at Edinburgh apart from when DVDM gets the ball. The last time I heard him discussing Edinburgh's short term goals, backline development was a big one. That hasn't really worked so what is the next step? Sign new players and back Hodge? Continue in the hope of improvement? Chamberlain progressing would be very helpful and it would be great to find a good replacement for DVDM. He's going to be a big loss for Edinburgh so hopefully there'll be some budget for another SA monster or Fijian flyer somewhere.

by TheMildlyFranticLlama Tue 16 Mar 2021, 12:57 pm

I want Cockers to stay for next season at least, this season has been a total basket case and I don't think it's fair to draw any conclusions from it. Unless those conclusions are 'we need a new backs coach' in which case draw away friends, that's been a fair conclusion for about 3 years now. I want Cockers to be given a chance to bed us into the new stadium, which he's been so involved with. But I would very much like someone who isn't Hodge to be bringing in some new ideas to help freshen things up!

by Hazel Sapling Tue 16 Mar 2021, 1:06 pm

Barring the feelings on the evolutionary growth of front rows (as some consider front rows to be the final evolution of youngsters who started as wings, had kids and the stress morphed them into props a McDonalds at a time), Edinburgh do need to find a way of marrying some ambition in the backline with the platform created. Bit boring to watch a side try to bludgeon their way to the line and not use Bennett/Graham/Kinghorn to slip through.

Edinburgh should be looking to spend a chunk of budget on a new FH rather than a wing. VDW and Chamberlain are a decent 1-2 but an Ian Keatley type (or, you know, Ian Keatley) who can help cover unless Savala or Cameron Scott are considered ready.

by **BigGee** Tue 16 Mar 2021, 1:16 pm

Edinburgh sign a SQ hooker from Ulster McBurny.

Mike Willemse will be off at the end of the season

by jimbopip Tue 16 Mar 2021, 4:49 pm

Apparently Cockers wants to sign his cousin, the tight head Munster McGash.

by **BigGee** Fri 19 Mar 2021, 12:11 pm

https://www.glasgowwarriors.org/news/brown-returns-as-hastings-starts-at-full-back

Glasgow manage to get a better looking side out for the must win game against the Drags than we dared hope.

RG back in the second row and partners McDonald, that is certainly a good lineout combo and adds a fair bit of grunt in the set.

Frazer Brown fit again and straight back into the side.

Hastings in at FB with Thompson keeping his place at FH.

Dobie is on the bench, which makes you think he is the 24th man for scotland this weekend and will be following he others down to Cardiff (it is being played in the Principality Stadium) on saturday afternoon.

Pete Horne also makes a welcome return from his concussion issues and is on the bench.

Still going to be a tall order against a full strength Drags, but it is in our own hands now and we have been playing ourselves into some sort of form over the past few games.

by EST Fri 19 Mar 2021, 12:49 pm

That's a much better looking team, with decent impact from the bench. I like the look of Gray/McDonald in the row.

Probably good for Ollie Smith to bench this one after his successive yellow cards - he can come on and try and make a difference as the game breaks up a bit.

by tigertattie Fri 19 Mar 2021, 1:02 pm

Hmmmmm. If RG is back fit then you have to wonder why he's not in the Scotland Team over Skinner or Gilchrist or young Alex Craig????????

by **BigGee** Fri 19 Mar 2021, 1:06 pm

tigertattie wrote:Hmmmmm. If RG is back fit then you have to wonder why he's not in the Scotland Team over Skinner or Gilchrist or young Alex Craig????????

Has not played for three weeks and the others have been with the squad and probably deserve their chance. Hopefully back in for France if he makes it through this one unscathed. Frazer Brown as well you would imagine.

by Mcsweens Fri 19 Mar 2021, 9:02 pm

Just flicked on to Munster v Bennetton, but I thought Hollie Davidson was doing well with the whistle. Seemed to have a good natural authority, and well respected by the players.

by jimbopip Sat 20 Mar 2021, 11:50 am

So the Ladyboys, minus their internationals and with one eye on their upcoming Pro14 final contrive to lose at home to the Ospreys. censored

This means that regardless of how Glasgow perform in the next two games we'll finish below the O's. Diddy Cup here we come. Sad

Happy Saturday everyone.

by **BigGee** Sun 21 Mar 2021, 3:24 pm

Hastings gets a YC for a high tackle, not much doubt about it unfortunately.

by **BigGee** Sun 21 Mar 2021, 3:48 pm

What a try from Rufus McLean, you can see why we are excited about this young man!

by Gicater Sun 21 Mar 2021, 4:29 pm

The Welsh commentary team is ridiculously one-eyed.

by **BigGee** Sun 21 Mar 2021, 4:37 pm

That was yards forward from Pete Horne

by **BigGee** Sun 21 Mar 2021, 4:59 pm

Disappointing second half from Glasgow but big effort from the Drags who deserved their win.

by jimbopip Sun 21 Mar 2021, 5:52 pm

Titman has some serious wheels on him.The Selkirk Pixie had a good game.
I just feel that we went from being ahead and untroubled to falling behind and wondering where we lost it.
Haircut wasn't overly impressive and may not be missed as much as he might like.

by tigertattie Sun 21 Mar 2021, 6:05 pm

Oh well that’s Glasgow burst. May as well let most of the Glasgow boys play against France on Friday and Edinburgh can keep their players.

by bsando Sun 21 Mar 2021, 6:23 pm

BigGee wrote:What a try from Rufus McLean, you can see why we are excited about this young man!

Just caught the replay of that. Very Hogg-esque! Can see why he was called up to the full Scotland squad.

by **RDW** Sun 21 Mar 2021, 9:00 pm

https://www.edinburghrugby.org/the-clubhouse/kinghorn-returns-for-decisive-capital-clash

Jeezo we're really plumbing the depths with this team selection. We don't even have anyone we can name at 22 yet!

by **BigGee** Sun 21 Mar 2021, 9:35 pm

The sooner this season is over the better!

by **RDW** Sun 21 Mar 2021, 9:37 pm

Looked up the bio on Savala as I'd forgoten who the hell he was. It's alright lads:

Savala still has a number of strong family connections in Ayr and even turned out for the Millbrae club aged nine, when visiting family on holiday.

Get him in the Scotland team!

by EST Sun 21 Mar 2021, 9:50 pm

BigGee wrote:The sooner this season is over the better!

Watching the second half of that Glasgow game was a sentence - a lot of the players look really unfit, which is putting it kindly.

by **BigGee** Sun 21 Mar 2021, 10:20 pm

EST wrote:
BigGee wrote:The sooner this season is over the better!

Watching the second half of that Glasgow game was a sentence - a lot of the players look really unfit, which is putting it kindly.

Unfortunately, i think the ones that are fit, like Harley and Wilson have been carrying the team and have run out of gas, nothing left in the tank today.

Wilson described them as lazy after the match, hard to argue with that.

by EST Mon 22 Mar 2021, 8:44 am

BigGee wrote:
EST wrote:
BigGee wrote:The sooner this season is over the better!

Watching the second half of that Glasgow game was a sentence - a lot of the players look really unfit, which is putting it kindly.

Unfortunately, i think the ones that are fit, like Harley and Wilson have been carrying the team and have run out of gas, nothing left in the tank today.

Wilson described them as lazy after the match, hard to argue with that.

Yeah, I'd agree - looked like those who had it in the first place ran out of steam. I'm sure the fact that the Ospreys managed a win over Leinster had an effect too. Either way, I think that was the worst half of rugby from Glasgow this season - given the players they had out at the end and the momentum they had built coming into this game.

by **BigGee** Mon 22 Mar 2021, 1:29 pm

Another Glasgow signing coming this afternoon at 2pm

It was announced with a Spanish caption, so I think we can assume it will be an Argentinian

by **NeilyBroon** Mon 22 Mar 2021, 2:09 pm

I mean... They could just be Spanish...

Plenty of famous players from Spain, Sam Hildago Clyne... Ummm...

by **BigGee** Mon 22 Mar 2021, 2:09 pm

Another flying winger

Sebastian Cancilliere, 10 Argentine caps

We will have quite a backing next season if they can get any ball!

by **BigGee** Mon 22 Mar 2021, 8:30 pm

Jez, Bill Mata just about cut Jason Harries in half with that tackle

by TheMildlyFranticLlama Mon 22 Mar 2021, 9:56 pm

Well Edinburgh’s horror story of a season continues! Shocking refereeing call at the end, judging Kinghorn had knocked the ball on when actually he regathers and drops it onto his foot to kick it through. Not that it would have made a difference, seems we were well beaten

by **BigGee** Mon 22 Mar 2021, 9:59 pm

Well Edinburgh lose 34-15 down in Cardiff, but actually played as well as I have seen them play for a long time, the score does not really reflect the game.

Mata looks right back to his best and Kunavulo looks like a chip off the same block. Hoyland, Willemse, Crosby all really showed up. They also played a much more expansive game than usual.

Cardiff had a bench to bring on and Edinburgh did not, that and having 20 year old FH playing his first game of union for 2 years (he actually did ok but really green and not able to run a game yet).

All a bit late in this very odd season for Edinburgh but at least they went down fighting, unlike Glasgow yesterday!

by EST Tue 23 Mar 2021, 10:08 am

I thought the same, they were at least trying to attack with a bit of pace and intent.

The whole game was a good watch, there seems to have been a concerted effort recently from the ref's to enforce the 5 second rule around the ruck - it's a subtle change, but seems to have a big knock-on effect on the overall pace of the game.

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