Glasgow and Edinburgh Ongoing Banter Thread 26

[Hazel Sapling]

First topic message reminder :

A continuation on previous threads discussing the past, the present and the future of Scottish rugby. A dose a day, keeps optimism away

Halfway through a Covid season and not far from the Rainbow cups, both teams are on the precipice of missing out on the top tier in Europe next year. The Rainbow Cup is a well thought out idea of including sides from South Africa, the home to a new Covid variant that vaccines may not work on, with international travel involving several regions of Europe.

Glasgow Squad

LH: Kebble, Bhatti, Lambert
Hooker: F Brown, Turner, Stewart, Matthews,
TH: Z Fagerson, Berghan, Pieretto, McCallum, McQuillan
Locks: Cummings, R Gray, Harley, McDonald, Bain, Bean
Back Row: Wilson, Gordon, M Fagerson, Darge, Dempsey, Miller, G Brown

SH: Price, G Horne, Dobie, Kennedy
FH: Weir, Miotti, P Horne, Thompson
Centres: S Johnson, McDowall, Tuipulotu, Grigg, Fergusson
Back Three: McLean, Forbes, McKay, Cancelliere, Tagive, Steyn, O Smith


Edinburgh Squad

LH: Schoeman, Venter, Grahamslaw
Hooker: McInally, Cherry, McBurney, Harrison
TH: Nel, De Bruin, Atalifo, Williams
Locks: Gilchrist, Toolis, Young, Hodgson, Sykes, Phillips
Back Row: Mata, Ritchie, Watson, Bradbury, Crosbie, Haining, Boyle, Kunavula, Muncaster

SH: Pyrgos, Vellacott, Shiel
FH: VDW, Chamberlain, Savala
Centres: Lang, Taylor, Bennett, Dean, Johnstone, Venter, Currie, Hutchison
Back Three: Graham, Kinghorn, Hoyland, Blain, Bofelli, Moyano, Immelman, Owsley


Previous Thread
https://www.606v2.com/t69760-the-glasgow-and-edinburgh-general-chat-discussions-are-limited-to-6-people-before-10pm-to-prevent-the-spread-of-jimboish
https://www.606v2.com/t69555-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-24-covid-funtimes?highlight=banter
https://www.606v2.com/t69038-glasgow-and-edinburgh-banter-thread-no-23-new-season-new-thread?highlight=banter

[BigGee]

Some justice at the next ruck!

[BigGee]

Kinghorn is not a FH!

[BigGee]

Hutchinson has looked good since he has come on, good try

[BigGee]

This game has had the lot!

[Dollar Bill]

Can’t decide who is more of a clueless numpty... Whitehouse or Kinghorn

Epic brainfarts from both of them

[BigGee]

I do feel a lot of sympathy for the kid making the tackle, he did absolutely nothing wrong, it was not a dangerous tackle and yet that would have been penalised 19 times out of 20 in the current climate.

It is the inconsistency that is maddening!

[BigGee]

A draw might have been a fair result, but still it was not all bad for the Luuvies. In particular, their kids stood up really well and will give them some hope for the future.

How though, they can have left their FH situation so poor begs real questions about their strategic view.

Cockers clearly does not rate Chamberlain, so they play Blairhorn, who probably costs them the game. Why does a professional club leave themselves so exposed at FH, it is just crazy!

Looks like Watson and DTH came through unscathed, so there is that to take from the game.

[Dollar Bill]

Not just 10.

Edinburgh’s only attacking move has been to fling it out to Duhan....

Nothing at 10, centres nothing to write home about and Kinghorn is an accident waiting to happen at 15.

No shape in attack and no-one capable of picking a line or running straight....

What does Duncan Hodge do all day?

[George Carlin]

Terrible result.

On the up side, the new stadium set up looks nice. A bit exposed to the elements, though?
https://www.edinburghrugby.org/virtual-tour/

[bsando]

I guess we’ll find out GC, I’m keen to get down and watch and game at some point this year.

Tough result but I loved RC comments on captains challenge post match. His brutal honesty is right on the money.

31 unanswered points was pretty terrible but good to see Edinburgh fight back after so many poor results.

[RDW]

https://www.glasgowwarriors.org/news/glasgow-warriors-confirm-departures

Mass clear out for Glasgow

[George Carlin]

https://www.glasgowwarriors.org/news/glasgow-warriors-confirm-departures

Mass clear out for Glasgow

Necessary, really. Where is St Shug going? Please tell me it's not Worcester...

[TheMildlyFranticLlama]

Necessary, really. Where is St Shug going? Please tell me it's not Worcester...

Can’t decide if it’s worse or just about the same, but he’s going to Bayonne who are currently sitting pretty in... second last in the Top 14. Great.

[EST]

https://www.glasgowwarriors.org/news/glasgow-warriors-confirm-departures

Mass clear out for Glasgow

Would have been great to have kept hold of Seiuli, Hastings and Jones, but aside from that this clear out has been necessary for a while.

[funnyExiledScot]

Kinghorn is not a FH!

It's bonkers isn't it. I never thought I'd miss Phil Godman....

Still, the kids looked good, particularly at hooker and number 8. Ritchie also had a strong game; lovely pass to put Johnstone through for the Kinghorn try.

[Hazel Sapling]

Tried to update the squad above. Edinburgh's squad is huge whilst Glasgow could do with another LH.

It is strange that Cockerill has looked at Blain and Kinghorn to fill in at 10 rather than give Chamberlain a chance to work through his first season struggles. Edinburgh can't be a place that only develops back-rowers and back-three players.

[funnyExiledScot]

I personally don't see why Chamberlain hasn't been given more time. He's played some nice stuff this season, and whilst he's struggled at times (particularly in games where the team as a whole has played poorly), that's to be expected from a kid in his break through season. 10 is a high profile and unforgiving position. I certainly don't think he's been worse than Kinghorn at 10. Kinghorn is clearly a back three player.

[EST]

Blair Kinghorn is quickly going the way of Bradbury - i'd say the best thing that both of them could do would be to get out of Edinburgh and develop out of their comfort zone.

[funnyExiledScot]

To be fair to Kinghorn he had a couple of decent games at 15 before being shunted to 10. He still makes too many mistakes, a bit like Stuart Hogg used to, but he's far too talented for us to be letting him go. With Duhan gone we'll need Kinghorn's strike running capabilities from 15 next season.

I do agree on Bradbury though. A couple of seasons in England or France would do him the power of good, and with Ritchie, Watson, Haining, Crosbie, Kunivola, Mata and now Muncaster, I don’t see him as a key part of the squad. He isn't a lock either!

[bsando]

Blair Kinghorn is quickly going the way of Bradbury - i'd say the best thing that both of them could do would be to get out of Edinburgh and develop out of their comfort zone.

Few players are natural talents from day one and go through some sort of journey of self development. Kinghorn comes across as confident and a bit cocky on the field of play but he would benefit from tidying up some of the looseness. Being confident in your ability is important but in his case I think he could do with stepping back and focussing on the less flashy parts of his game.

[bsando]

To be fair to Kinghorn he had a couple of decent games at 15 before being shunted to 10. He still makes too many mistakes, a bit like Stuart Hogg used to, but he's far too talented for us to be letting him go. With Duhan gone we'll need Kinghorn's strike running capabilities from 15 next season.

I do agree on Bradbury though. A couple of seasons in England or France would do him the power of good, and with Ritchie, Watson, Haining, Crosbie, Kunivola, Mata and now Muncaster, I don’t see him as a key part of the squad. He isn't a lock either!

Yeah I agree, not sure when his contract is up but another poor season and I'm not sure if his future at Edinburgh will guaranteed. Especially with some of the young talent emerging, there'll hopefully be more coming into contention.

[EST]

To be fair to Kinghorn he had a couple of decent games at 15 before being shunted to 10. He still makes too many mistakes, a bit like Stuart Hogg used to, but he's far too talented for us to be letting him go. With Duhan gone we'll need Kinghorn's strike running capabilities from 15 next season.

I do agree on Bradbury though. A couple of seasons in England or France would do him the power of good, and with Ritchie, Watson, Haining, Crosbie, Kunivola, Mata and now Muncaster, I don’t see him as a key part of the squad. He isn't a lock either!

It's a fair point about Kinghorn, but no doubt his form has tailed off markedly this season and he doesn't give off the air of somebody being all that bothered about it.

Edinburgh appear to be in weird place just now, terrible results but Cockers and his team seem to be getting a completely free pass, in a way that hasn't been afforded to Wilson.

[Hazel Sapling]

Kinghorn and Bradbury both have stalled for a couple of seasons. Both are at risk of being passed by Blain and Muncaster respectively in the next couple of seasons and it may make sense from a budget perspective to let them leave.

The alternative is they become the Fusaro and Harley of Edinburgh that are good club players but never quite had enough for international rugby at T1 level and act as gatekeepers for younger players to aspire to pass.

[funnyExiledScot]

Edinburgh appear to be in weird place just now, terrible results but Cockers and his team seem to be getting a completely free pass, in a way that hasn't been afforded to Wilson.  

I agree with this. I've cut Cockerill a fair bit of slack over the year, targeting my criticism on those responsible for the areas of the side most obviously failing (e.g. Hodge). But if Cockers wanted to replace Hodge then I'm fairly sure he could have done so. The attacking skills, shape, routines and general mentality have been well short of what a professional team should expect.

Given how Glasgow have finished the season, I think Wilson certainly deserves more time. He's got a rebuild on his hands, but the signs from some of the kids coming through, and the new signings already announced, are positive. I thought Glasgow were terrific against Leinster, even if the announcement of Wilson as MOTM made me laugh!

[funnyExiledScot]

Kinghorn and Bradbury both have stalled for a couple of seasons. Both are at risk of being passed by Blain and Muncaster respectively in the next couple of seasons and it may make sense from a budget perspective to let them leave.

The alternative is they become the Fusaro and Harley of Edinburgh that are good club players but never quite had enough for international rugby at T1 level and act as gatekeepers for younger players to aspire to pass.

I think the Harley comparison is becoming relevant for Bradbury, especially given his recent appearances at lock (neither are big enough to trouble international selectors at lock), however the big benefit of Harley is that he is such a consistent player. He has shortcomings, but he'll give 100% in every game and treat every tackle and ruck as if it were his last. Bradbury is such a hot and cold player. I wonder if he's lost some pace in an attempt to bulk up. That's usually a big error in my view. He just isn't having the same impact in contact as he used to, and I think it's down to pace rather than power.

As above, I'm willing to shout Kinghorn some more time. He's still a big talent and has played some very good stuff this season in attack. In his stride he is seriously quick. I see Blain in the 11 jersey rather than a competitor for Kinghorn at 15. I think they could work well together. We're nowhere near good enough as a backline to jettison Kinghorn!

[jimbopip]

I would offer my usual trenchant, insightful opinions on the problems facing Bradbury and Blarehorn...but i don't want to intrude on private grief.

One observation though...when Fitter& was receiving the MOM award and he said the team wanted to put on a performance for Big Bad who was inspirational in the way he worked as hard as he possibly could in training...."every Frak day!!!"; who would you rather have in your squad Big Bad or Bradbury?

[funnyExiledScot]

Oh, Harley no question. He's a much better squad player. Works his socks off, happy to play (and not play) as needed by the team, and extremely consistent. He also sets an example in training by all accounts.

Bradbury is the more talented you could argue; certainly quicker and more dynamic, but consistency had eluded him for some time now. I also doubt he'll be fine warming the bench next season, and frankly on recent showings he'd be lucky to make the bench. I think he needs to get faster. He's naturally big, so no need to be a gym monkey. The biggest tackle I saw this weekend came from Tom Gordon. The best carry from Hamish Watson. When Bradbury burst onto the scene he was quick. We need to see him use his pace as well as his power.

[jimbopip]

Agreed FES. Doc Grey mentioned on the Ladyboys match thread that when he watched the game he thought that every time a Ladyboy got the ball in the last quarter of the match it seemed as if all the Glasgow players wanted to do was make roadkill of them. That kind of spirit is just as important as the fancy offloads and miss passes. If it was Tom Gordon wiping out Porter just after the big rammy ( which kicked off because Porter took exception to The Mullet clearing him out at a ruck) I heartily agree with you it was one hell of a tackle.
Never mind Hodge and his non existent back line moves, why are the Luvvies not snarling and roadkilling their way through matches?

[George Carlin]

Bradbury seems to have vanished from the international selection landscape this season and with young players, it's always interesting to understand why this is. It genuinely could be coaching as much as bad luck or the attitude of the player. I agree with FES that the dynamism of previous seasons has been replaced with a stodgyness (sp) which I really don't get.

[BigGee]

John Hardie calls it a day and retires from professional rugby.

He has been fighting sgainst the dying of the light for a while, but what a player he was in his brief Scotland career around the 2015 WC.

A bit like Favaro, he had absolutely no regard for self predervation in the way the chucked himself around and the injuries unfortunately caught up with him.

Good luck to him in the future and hope he settles down away from the game.

[Hazel Sapling]

Reading the rugbypass article, it suggests Hardie plans on settling in Edinburgh and he is studying strength & conditioning.

As said, great player in his prime when fit but his body just could not take the punishment. Glad that he feels he is walking away from the game rather than being pushed to retire.

[EST]

Edinburgh appear to be in weird place just now, terrible results but Cockers and his team seem to be getting a completely free pass, in a way that hasn't been afforded to Wilson.  

I agree with this. I've cut Cockerill a fair bit of slack over the year, targeting my criticism on those responsible for the areas of the side most obviously failing (e.g. Hodge). But if Cockers wanted to replace Hodge then I'm fairly sure he could have done so. The attacking skills, shape, routines and general mentality have been well short of what a professional team should expect.

Given how Glasgow have finished the season, I think Wilson certainly deserves more time. He's got a rebuild on his hands, but the signs from some of the kids coming through, and the new signings already announced, are positive. I thought Glasgow were terrific against Leinster, even if the announcement of Wilson as MOTM made me laugh!

Agreed, when Cockers first came in he looked hell bent on changing the culture at Edinburgh and at points it looked like had succeeded.  This year however, he's presided over some terrible results and doesn't appear all that fussed in post match interviews, it all seems far too cosy.  I take the point that you need to factor in how disruptive this season has been, but as you say the performances have been well short of what is required and his recruitment in previous years has resulted in an unbalanced squad, magnifying the issues Covid has caused.

Hopefully the move to the new stadium will focus minds and they can start afresh next year, but in many respects it seems like they are back to where they started when Cockers was first appointed.

[EST]

John Hardie calls it a day and retires from professional rugby.

He has been fighting sgainst the dying of the light for a while, but what a player he was in his brief Scotland career around the 2015 WC.

A bit like Favaro, he had absolutely no regard for self predervation in the way the chucked himself around and the injuries unfortunately caught up with him.

Good luck to him in the future and hope he settles down away from the game.

Shame to see the Hardhorse retire, at his best he was a brilliantly destructive 7 - a huge part of that 2015 WC effort.

[TheMildlyFranticLlama]

Edinburgh appear to be in weird place just now, terrible results but Cockers and his team seem to be getting a completely free pass, in a way that hasn't been afforded to Wilson.  

I agree with this. I've cut Cockerill a fair bit of slack over the year, targeting my criticism on those responsible for the areas of the side most obviously failing (e.g. Hodge). But if Cockers wanted to replace Hodge then I'm fairly sure he could have done so. The attacking skills, shape, routines and general mentality have been well short of what a professional team should expect.

Given how Glasgow have finished the season, I think Wilson certainly deserves more time. He's got a rebuild on his hands, but the signs from some of the kids coming through, and the new signings already announced, are positive. I thought Glasgow were terrific against Leinster, even if the announcement of Wilson as MOTM made me laugh!

Agreed, when Cockers first came in he looked hell bent on changing the culture at Edinburgh and at points it looked like had succeeded.  This year however, he's presided over some terrible results and doesn't appear all that fussed in post match interviews, it all seems far too cosy.  I take the point that you need to factor in how disruptive this season has been, but as you say the performances have been well short of what is required and his recruitment in previous years has resulted in an unbalanced squad, magnifying the issues Covid has caused.

Hopefully the move to the new stadium will focus minds and they can start afresh next year, but in many respects it seems like they are back to where they started when Cockers was first appointed.

I'm a massive fan of Cockers generally and think he's been great for the club, but I'm slowly coming around to agreeing with you both on this now. At the end of the day he's got eyes like the rest of us, he can see the backline totally failing to deliver every time they take to the field and has shown no willingness to address that. If that is the case then maybe it is time for him to move on, because being hard to beat isn't going to be enough to bring success and other clubs will quickly pass us and we'll end up back at where we were when Cockers came in before we know it (I'm deliberately not making assessments about the pecking order of the league from this season as it's been such a basket case).

It would be a shame for him not to complete the job and lead the team out into the era of the new stadium, but equally we don't need to waste a year of development time for players like Chamberlain, Shiel, Taylor, Blain etc if they aren't going to be allowed to play with the ball

[funnyExiledScot]

John Hardie calls it a day and retires from professional rugby.

He has been fighting sgainst the dying of the light for a while, but what a player he was in his brief Scotland career around the 2015 WC.

A bit like Favaro, he had absolutely no regard for self predervation in the way the chucked himself around and the injuries unfortunately caught up with him.

Good luck to him in the future and hope he settles down away from the game.

Shame to see the Hardhorse retire, at his best he was a brilliantly destructive 7 - a huge part of that 2015 WC effort.  

He was magnificent in the 2015 WC. An absolute wrecking ball in the tackle. Hope he comes to Edinburgh to teach our players a thing or two about unrelenting intensity.

[jimbopip]

Batman is the Warriors' Players' Player of the year.

[funnyExiledScot]

Such a sentimental bunch!

[jimbopip]

You are so right Fes! Here we have a back rower who has been playing above his abilities, turning out when held together with brown paper and sticky tape and always punching above his weight ( often literally).
While over at the Library you have the conundrum that is Bradbury.
I'll stick with sentimental.

[Hazel Sapling]

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/ulster-dramatically-do-u-turn-on-their-deal-to-sign-nakarawa-after-a-medical/

Nakarawa no longer heading off to Ulster. Something in the medical report put them off.

[BigGee]

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/ulster-dramatically-do-u-turn-on-their-deal-to-sign-nakarawa-after-a-medical/

Nakarawa no longer heading off to Ulster. Something in the medical report put them off.

Am sure sfter wstching him this season, they would have given him a very thorough medical!

[jimbopip]

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/ulster-dramatically-do-u-turn-on-their-deal-to-sign-nakarawa-after-a-medical/

Nakarawa no longer heading off to Ulster. Something in the medical report put them off.

Am sure sfter wstching him this season, they would have saved the money on doctor's fees and dispensed with the formality of giving him a very thorough medical!

Fixed that for you Gee.

[funnyExiledScot]

We should take him at Edinburgh, just to see Hodge's face when an Edinburgh back does something spontaneous!!

[EST]

Shame his career has fizzled out the way it has, he was an exceptional talent and would have been in my world XV for a period of time around that 2015 Pro 12 win. This second stint at Glasgow has been an unmitigated disaster though, he has been hopeless.

[BigGee]

Sau leaving Edinburgh this season as well as the more telegraphed Mccallam

That's a bit of a surprise as he has been good this season, not something you can say about many at Edinburgh this year!

Lots of other back three options I guess, but still, i doubt he cost a fortune.

[funnyExiledScot]

Very surprised about Sau. He's really turned up in the last few games and one of the few backs capable of dominating the collision. I always wondered whether he could shift to 13.

Poor decision in my view.

[RDW]

Yeah that's a real shame he's been one of our better players since he signed. Very physical.

We have got options but I would have kept him.

[jimbopip]

Is it worth keeping Sau when the Luvvies' "gameplan" such as it is requires that the ball only reaches the wing every third Friday of a five week month?
You're paying the man a lot of money to do next to nothing most matches; in the words of Yosser Hughes, "I can stand still! Gizza job!"

[George Carlin]

So are we optimistic for next season or pessimistic?

Weegies need not answer because we already know the answer.

[jimbopip]

Ross Thompson...Glasgow Warriors Player Of The Season.
Like WOW. Finn never won that in his debut season, did he?
Thompson looks a real prospect.
If Glasgow gel quickly then next season could be one to remember. On the other hand if DW struggles to find the right combinations it could be a long hard watch.
Either way it'll be more interesting than the Luvvies' attacking playbook.

[BigGee]

Wewll if Huw Jones is going to Bayonne next season, as has been touted but never officially announced, he will be playing in Pro D2, they got relegated today.

If he did sign for them and bearing in mind their league position has always been a bit precarious, you would hope his lawyer had included a relegation clause.

Still begs the question of where he will play next year, Glasgow have announced him as leaving and are bringing in a replacement, so I don't see him staying at Scotstoun.

There will surely be a contract out there for him somewhere, even if not at the rate he once hoped he would command.

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