Political round up.............

by Samo Tue 11 May 2021, 6:52 pm

First topic message reminder :

The best thing about our system is that every single person in the country gets an equal vote under equal circumstances. Unless a National ID card scheme is introduced this will just alienate poorer voters. Just another way to rig the system.

by JDizzle Mon 17 Jan 2022, 11:19 am

It is quite funny that the only person to quit so far is Allegra Stratton, whose crime was joking that these weren’t parties but work events. Which is now the official government line.

by Luckless Pedestrian Mon 17 Jan 2022, 11:24 am

'The chairman of global banking giant Credit Suisse, Antonio Horta-Osorio, has resigned with immediate effect after breaking Covid quarantine rules.

'Mr Horta-Osorio, who was with the bank for just nine months, left following an internal investigation.

'It has emerged he breached Covid rules last year, including by attending the Wimbledon tennis finals.

'"I regret that a number of my personal actions have led to difficulties for the bank and compromised my ability to represent the bank internally and externally," Mr Horta-Osorio said in a statement issued by the bank.

'"I therefore believe that my resignation is in the interest of the bank and its stakeholders at this crucial time," he added.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60019735

I'm sure someone can explain to me why it's less worthy of resignation when *the Prime Minister of a country* breaches Covid rules.

by Samo Mon 17 Jan 2022, 12:11 pm

He's obviously just part of the left-wing globalist cabal, doing it to make Johnson look bad.

by Luckless Pedestrian Mon 17 Jan 2022, 12:23 pm

Of course! Laugh

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 18 Jan 2022, 2:49 pm

I see Johnson is out of ~~hiding~~ isolation and is immediately making things worse for himself. Conservatives must be beyond exasperated with him, but this is their fault for thinking he was remotely suitable for high office.

by lostinwales Tue 18 Jan 2022, 2:55 pm

The only thing that I am happy about Johnson still being in no.10 is that he really is so incompetent that everything he tries to do will just make his position more difficult.

by Duty281 Tue 18 Jan 2022, 4:11 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Conservatives must be beyond exasperated with him, but this is their fault for thinking he was remotely suitable for high office.

According to Opinium, only a narrow majority of 2019 Tory voters think this - "48% of those who voted Conservative in 2019 think he should go, with just 37% thinking he should stay."

But, also with Opinium, Labour have now eked out their highest polling lead since 2013, and Johnson's overall approval ratings are as bad as Theresa May in May 2019.

It seems as though he's trying to tough it out. But for how long remains to be seen.

by **Pr4wn** Tue 18 Jan 2022, 6:30 pm

Dominic Raab and Nadine Dorries must be two of the dimmest individuals to ever draw breath in Parliament.

by GSC Tue 18 Jan 2022, 6:49 pm

I don't know there's a lot of competition

by **Pr4wn** Tue 18 Jan 2022, 8:54 pm

They really do stand out though. Raab was doing the news rounds this morning and all he had to do was not call it a party. What did he go and do?

by GSC Tue 18 Jan 2022, 10:56 pm

Apparently enough letters are in for a no confidence vote in boris

by Duty281 Tue 18 Jan 2022, 11:39 pm

It's a dangerous time to install a new leader. The next GE is two years away, and the Tories are seeking a fifth election win that would give them a total of 19 consecutive years in office.

Such a stretch is unprecedented in modern times. The Tories managed 18 years and four election wins in 1979-1997; the Liberals managed nearly 17 years and four election wins in 1905-1922; New Labour got 13 years and three election wins in 1997-2010.

To achieve quite an extraordinary feat the Tories are going to have elect the right leader and time it nicely. The timing is crucial. Putting in a new leader with two years to go will see the new polling bounce expire and risk an electorate already jaded with the new leader by the time 2024 happens...unless the Tories try what Brown and Callaghan didn't do, and what May and Johnson did, and have a snap GE in May/June 2022, aiming to capitalise on a polling bounce? But the latter choice would be one hell of a risk. Probably too risky.

Sunak into 6/4 to be the next leader. Truss 4/1. Hunt 13/2.

by **superflyweight** Wed 19 Jan 2022, 9:01 am

The thought of Liz Truss trying to do PMQ's makes me feel almost sorry for her. Only need to look at the footage of Emily Thornberry tearing her to pieces to realise what she'd be subjected to on a weekly basis. Johnson at least has the shield of his bluster and ability to genuinely believe the latest lie coming out of his mouth.

by Samo Wed 19 Jan 2022, 12:13 pm

Starmers just having a laugh at this point. He knows Johnson is finished so he's just feeding him more rope at this point.

Starmer very much coming across as the right man in the right place at the right time. I cant help but feel Corbyn wouldnt be nearly as forensic and clinical in his questioning.

by **superflyweight** Wed 19 Jan 2022, 12:44 pm

Samo wrote:Starmers just having a laugh at this point. He knows Johnson is finished so he's just feeding him more rope at this point.

Starmer very much coming across as the right man in the right place at the right time. I cant help but feel Corbyn wouldnt be nearly as forensic and clinical in his questioning.

Corbyn's nutter brother would have been an easy diversionary attack point for Johnson.

by GSC Wed 19 Jan 2022, 12:47 pm

Think you're massively underplaying the impact of Corbyn asking a question from Maureen in Bradford

by Duty281 Wed 19 Jan 2022, 1:06 pm

I see Christian Wakeford has decided to throw his political career away. Outstanding move. He once co-sponsored a bill saying that MPs who switch party should resign their seat and stand at a by-election for their new party. I agree and I look forward to his resignation.

This defection is probably more unwelcome for Starmer than it is welcome. Wakeford has a typical Tory voting record, which will intensify some of the detractors in the Labour Party who like to label Starmer a 'red Tory' or 'blue Labour' or whatever it is.

Can't see why Wakeford would be picked by Labour as their next Bury South candidate, unless assurances and guarantees have been made in return for his defection.

It's also incredibly poorly-timed. David Davis' words in PMQs today have probably had more impact.

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 20 Jan 2022, 10:50 am

Now then.

'Conservative MPs who want Boris Johnson to resign have been intimidated by the party and should contact the police if they have been blackmailed, a senior Tory has warned.

'William Wragg, chair of the public administration and constitutional affairs committee, said a "number of MPs have faced intimidation" in recent days after declaring, or assumed to have declared, their desire for a vote of confidence in the PM.

'He told the committee it is "not the function" of the government whips office to breach the ministerial code by "threatening to withdraw investments in constituencies funded by the public purse".'

'He added that "intimidation in parliament is a serious matter" and the reports he has been told of "would seem to constitute blackmail" so he told them to contact the Speaker of the House and the head of the Metropolitan Police, Dame Cressida Dick.'

https://news.sky.com/story/tories-who-want-pm-to-resign-facing-intimidation-and-blackmail-from-party-mp-warns-12520768

by lostinwales Thu 20 Jan 2022, 11:09 am

Worth pointing out that Wragg (my MP as it happens) has been in the ERG and CRG since they started. He doesn't always follow the government line but he is at the heart of the groupings that it seems Johnson is playing up to to try and shore up his position.

It is entirely possible that Wragg is going his own way. It is absolutely yet another sign that things are not going well for Johnson behind the scenes.

by lostinwales Thu 20 Jan 2022, 11:13 am

Oh and Peston reporting that Grey has the email telling Reynolds that holding the party at no.10 was a bad idea. Can't help feeling that this kind of evidence will be used to hang the civil servants at no.10 out to dry.

I guess its easier for Johnson to admit he's unaware of what is happening around him (ignorant or stupid) than that he's a hypocrite.

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 20 Jan 2022, 11:21 am

This is indisputably an administration in Johnson's image. The problem is him, and has been from the start. The question now is how many Tory MPs are prepared to pretend they don't know it.

by JDizzle Fri 21 Jan 2022, 1:05 pm

Boris’s approval ratings have dropped below where Corbyn’s were before the 2019 election, with YouGov. That is some effort.

by lostinwales Tue 25 Jan 2022, 1:08 pm

Forkin hell.

A 'win' for Johnson as they announce a criminal investigation into no.10 parties. This effectively shuts down the Grey inquiry and, as it will take up to a year to carry out, gives the government more time and a new excuse. For every question on the parties they will just reply that it is now a criminal inquiry and they cannot reply.

Feels all too well planned but the way it has happened suggests its all they have left. No guarantee the Conservative party will buy this plan.

by Samo Tue 25 Jan 2022, 2:18 pm

Its no longer about criminality for me. Its now clear as day he deliberately lied to Parliament.

Its such a farce of a government now Starmer should just open PMQ's tomorrow singing happy birthday and leave it at that.

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 25 Jan 2022, 3:03 pm

It's a simple question for Tory MPs. They can either cut Johnson loose before he does any more damage to the brand, or they can circle the wagons and go into May's elections as the party that was okay with it all.

Remember a couple of weeks ago when he was pretending to be contrite? What an absolute chancer he is.

by lostinwales Tue 25 Jan 2022, 4:17 pm

The met now saying they have no problems with the release of the report and it seems as if Grey will release it this week.

Unfortunately it then goes to Johnson, but he'll be under enormous pressure to release it.

So war with Russia it is then.

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 25 Jan 2022, 4:44 pm

I wonder if it might be wise for Starmer not to lead with this at PMQs tomorrow. Let it be the elephant in the room for a while, or leave it to other MPs to raise. Johnson and his remaining supporters are clearly going with the line that this is a triviality, and that there are many more pressing issues to be dealing with / debating. So don't play into their hands, but press him instead on the National Insurance hike, cost of living, etc. It's not as if partygate is Johnson's only weak spot.

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 25 Jan 2022, 4:48 pm

On the other hand....

'The Daily Mirror suggests the findings of the Sue Gray inquiry into lockdown gatherings at Downing Street could be presented to Boris Johnson this evening.'

https://news.sky.com/story/politics-latest-live-news-uk-boris-johnson-sue-gray-report-parties-nusrat-ghani-12514080

Political round up............. - Page 9 1347041234

Political round up............. - Page 9 1347041234

by Samo Tue 25 Jan 2022, 5:47 pm

Johnson wont be allowed to get away with no publishing the report in its entireity, especially now the police are finally getting involved.

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 25 Jan 2022, 5:53 pm

Sky News are reporting that photos of Johnson at various parties have been handed over to Sue Gray (and presumably now to the Met). Of course there are photos. If Johnson had any sense, he would have known this would all come out eventually.

by BamBam Tue 25 Jan 2022, 6:12 pm

Apparently some Tory voters are in a complete state of bafflement and anger after discovering that lying narcissist Boris Johnson is in fact a lying narcissist named Boris Johnson

It's great to see, it really is

by GSC Tue 25 Jan 2022, 7:55 pm

Can't wait to see what Sue Gray's report, commissioned by her boss, says about her boss.

by king_carlos Tue 25 Jan 2022, 8:11 pm

lostinwales wrote:The met now saying they have no problems with the release of the report and it seems as if Grey will release it this week.

Unfortunately it then goes to Johnson, but he'll be under enormous pressure to release it.

So war with Russia it is then.

by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 26 Jan 2022, 10:46 am

It was nice of Liz Truss to do the rounds this morning to remind us that the inadequacy isn't limited to Johnson. Has there been a shallower pool of talent in a cabinet?

by Samo Fri 28 Jan 2022, 9:50 am

So the Met have told Sue Gray to limit what gets published from her report as to not “prejudice” its own ongoing investigations.

This immediately raises two alarm bells.

1. The offences discussed dont warrent a trial by jury, so where could the prejudice come from? Unless more serious offences have been uncovered.

2. There is the risk that several high ranking members of the Met will be implicated. Given the amount of security in and around Downing Street the fact these parties were happening so often seems like a major security issue - either one of incompetance or turning a blind eye.

The whole thing stinks to high heaven, and it seems increasingly likely Johnson will be able to cling on for a while longer.

by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 28 Jan 2022, 10:18 am

Samo wrote:So the Met have told Sue Gray to limit what gets published from her report as to not “prejudice” its own ongoing investigations.

This immediately raises two alarm bells.

1. The offences discussed dont warrent a trial by jury, so where could the prejudice come from? Unless more serious offences have been uncovered.

2. There is the risk that several high ranking members of the Met will be implicated. Given the amount of security in and around Downing Street the fact these parties were happening so often seems like a major security issue - either one of incompetance or turning a blind eye.

The whole thing stinks to high heaven, and it seems increasingly likely Johnson will be able to cling on for a while longer.

This is the potential bombshell here. There were reports of people destroying evidence of various parties, and if any of that has continued since the Met announced they were investigating, that's a serious offence, isn't it?

On the face of it, it stinks, but I'm not going to rush to conclude it's a whitewash / cover up. Politically, it might buy Johnson some time, but it doesn't suit the party to have this dragging on even longer, and some of the senior backbenchers might not be prepared to wait that long before they make their move.

by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 28 Jan 2022, 10:24 am

These are the backbenchers I mean:

'A report in The Guardian overnight says a new collection of Tory MPs are "poised" to issue letters of no-confidence in Boris Johnson over the partygate scandal - including more than two dozen former ministers.

'The group of newly elected MPs who had decided to act to force the PM were said to have been unhappy with colleagues for "leaving them exposed".

'But according to the newspaper, senior backbenchers have now resolved to "move as a collective" to force a no-confidence vote in Mr Johnson.

'"It's the white, middle-aged backbencher he has to watch," one MP told the paper.

'"People who feel strongly about their morals and to whom this prime minister can't offer anything personally."'

https://news.sky.com/story/boris-johnson-latest-live-news-uk-sue-gray-report-parties-partygate-12514080

by GSC Fri 28 Jan 2022, 10:38 am

"People who feel strongly about their morals" are a minority in the conservative party, he'll be fine

by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 28 Jan 2022, 10:58 am

Yeah fair point Laugh

by dummy_half Fri 28 Jan 2022, 11:24 am

GSC wrote:"People who feel strongly about their morals" are a minority in the conservative party, he'll be fine

But isn't it only 54 letters out of about 350 MPs, so only 15% of the MPs must actually possess a heart and spine?

by GSC Fri 28 Jan 2022, 11:50 am

That still feels like a big ask

by Duty281 Fri 28 Jan 2022, 12:56 pm

And even if the 15% of Tory MPs send in a letter, it then goes to a vote of no confidence among Tory MPs. Any majority for Johnson in that vote would secure his position from other leadership challenges for a full year, though he may resign if he only scraped a thin majority in that scenario.

Difficult to see 180+ Tory MPs voting against Johnson, which would be required to definitely oust him.

For now the polling seems to have stabilised for the Tories, though further drops could happen depending on the police investigation/Gray report. Johnson's net approval ratings are on the floor, but not as bad as Major and Thatcher were at certain times (Major managed almost another three years as PM from his lowest ebb).

by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 28 Jan 2022, 1:18 pm

What they're saying now on Radio 4 is that the Met may not have been using 'prejudice' in its legal sense, but simply that they've asked Sue Gray not to prejudge what the Met may find, so she can state the facts of what happened, but they don't want her to rule one way or the other whether any offences were committed. If that's true, it was an incredibly clumsy and unhelpful statement.

by lostinwales Mon 31 Jan 2022, 9:41 am

So Johnson is now accused of leaving secret documents lying around his flat. It is not surprising, it is potentially very serious, and yet is both hard to prove and does not have the same traction as partygate.

by GSC Mon 31 Jan 2022, 9:56 am

To be fair, having the decorators in does mess around your home

by lostinwales Mon 31 Jan 2022, 10:38 am

GSC wrote:To be fair, having the decorators in does mess around your home

Did you see the information linking the decorator to being there for his birthday and yet he was asking for money to pay for her several months later?

by Luckless Pedestrian Mon 31 Jan 2022, 10:51 am

Quite a few 'look over here' announcements trailed in the friendly papers over the weekend and today. I'm sure there'll be substance to them, it would be unlike this government to get people's hopes up in the hunt for a short-term boost.

by BamBam Mon 31 Jan 2022, 11:11 am

FT wrote:

Sanjeev Gupta wrote to senior government minister Nadhim Zahawi thanking him for his “personally instrumental” role in facilitating taxpayer-backed loans from Greensill Capital that are now subject to a fraud investigation.

Greensill, a financial firm whose collapse last year sparked a lobbying scandal that ensnared former prime minister David Cameron, provided £400m of government-backed loans to entities linked to GFG Alliance, the metals group run by Gupta. GFG is now being investigated by the Serious Fraud Office.

Greensill was able to provide these loans because it won approval from the British Business Bank in 2020. The state-owned bank has now suspended the government guarantees backing the loans, amid concerns they breached the terms of the Covid-19 relief programme, which forbade Greensill from lending more than £50m to any single company.

On October 5 2020, Gupta sent a letter to Zahawi, a Conservative politician who at the time was a minister in the business department (BEIS), thanking him for his “support” helping Greensill secure the loans.

“Since you were personally instrumental in getting the BBB’s approval for Greensill Capital to provide financial assistance under the CLBILS programme, it would be very fitting if you could join us to mark this special moment that provides relief to thousands of workers,” Gupta wrote to Zahawi, inviting him to a “small gathering” at his company’s Rotherham steelworks.

https://www.ft.com/content/fe8c33e7-a846-4f98-ab33-68b580c6896f

Nothing to see here, of course. I've always thought Zahawi has gone relatively under the radar with the wider public as there have been many more obviously odious individuals in this cabinet, but he does seem like a particularly slippery little fish.

by Samo Mon 31 Jan 2022, 2:35 pm

The report has been published.

Against the backdrop of the pandemic, when the government was asking citizens to accept far-reaching restrictions on their lives, some of the behaviour surrounding these gatherings is difficult to justify

At least some of the gatherings in question represent a serious failure to observe not just the high standards expected of those working at the heart of government but also of the standards expected of the entire British population at the time

At times it seems there was too little thought given to what was happening across the country in considering the appropriateness of some of these gatherings, the risks they presented to public health and how they might appear to the public

Sue Grey also confirms a gathering that took place on the 13th of November 2020 in the Downing Street flat is under investigation by police.

Doesnt make for pleasant reading for Johnson, he’s addressing parliament at 15:30.

Edit: here’s the report in its (almost) entirety

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1051374/Investigation_into_alleged_gatherings_on_government_premises_during_Covid_restrictions_-_Update.pdf

by Luckless Pedestrian Mon 31 Jan 2022, 2:51 pm

This is not good at all for Johnson. He'll fire a load of his staff, but two questions: firstly, whether they'll go quietly, and secondly, whether enough of his MPs accept that. My immediate hunch is that we'll get to the 54-letter threshold.

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