Political round up.............

First topic message reminder :

The best thing about our system is that every single person in the country gets an equal vote under equal circumstances. Unless a National ID card scheme is introduced this will just alienate poorer voters. Just another way to rig the system.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:This is not good at all for Johnson. He'll fire a load of his staff, but two questions: firstly, whether they'll go quietly, and secondly, whether enough of his MPs accept that. My immediate hunch is that we'll get to the 54-letter threshold.

Any PM with a hint of humility or shame would be going, but we have Johnson. I don't think it will be up to him though.

Agreed.

I'm not sure how Johnson can plausibly accept the finding that there was a failure of leadership at Number 10 and not carry the can for it.

The 13th November party was outright denied by the lying prick in parliament. Hopefully it won't be too long now

BamBam wrote:The 13th November party was outright denied by the lying prick in parliament. Hopefully it won't be too long now

According to the Mirror's reporting of the party at the time, the revellers were blasting out 'The Winner Takes It All'. That is deliciously hubristic.

So of 16 investigated incidents, 4 were adequately within the letter of the law to not require police investigtion, but 12 potentially were.

Regardless of the legality of the lockdown gatherings, it sounds like there are serious questions being raised about the drinking culture within Whitehall.

Johnson offers a half hearted apology, then falls back on his usual bluster about the vaccine rollout, boosters and brexit.

Starmer completely eviscerates him and his cabinet.

Johnson has no answers, calls Starmers record as QC into question then goes back to boosters and brexit.

Theresa May asks if Johnson didnt read the rules, didnt understand the rules, or just chose to ignore them altogether.

Johnson says wait for the report.

Ian Blackford says he wilfully misled parliament. And then sarcastically has to say "inadvertedly" misled parliament. He intends to table a motion to parliament to publish the report in full, regardless of the police investigation. Reiterates that there was a failure of leadership, a lack of responsibility and he should resign - Johnson laughs at him. Blackford not happy with that.

Hoyle tells him to withdraw the words "misled". Ian Blackford doubles down and says he presented evidence of misleading. He gets one last chance before getting his marching orders. He says "If the Prime Minister has inadvertedly misled the house, I will say that."

Johnson still has no answer other that wait for the inquiry.

Hoyle asks Blackford once again to withdraw, he refuses and is ejected from the House. Well done Ian Blackford, atleast someone is willing to call Johnson what he is in the house.

Back bench MP (I missed his name) says Johnson has lost his support.

Dame Angela Eagle reiterates the point that Johnson has broken his own restrictions, possibly broken the law and should resign.

Johnson AGAIN says to wait for the inquiry.

Tory MP Graham Stuart offers some brown nosing support for Johnson.

Sir Ed Davey relays the suffering of many throughout these past few years. He asks Johnson if he understands the pain, and asks if he'll resign.

Johnson says he should wait for the inquiry. Thats about all I can take of this.

He's got the tone badly wrong here I think.

Also worth noting that despite previously promising to release the report in full, he has so far refused to confirm that he will once the investigation is over. Atleast twice now.

Tobias Ellwood (on Twitter): 'If the PM fails to publish the report in full then he will no longer have my support.'

The horrible cnut also decided to use Jimmy Saville to score points against Keir Starmer

He was also asked about the drug culture in Number 10. He then said you should probably direct that question to the opposition front bench.

Quite what the Frak he meant by that we’ll never know.

It is rather funny that someone is held to a higher standard when accusing Boris of lying than Boris is when lying

Quite incredible watching Nadine Dorries in 3 different car crash interviews - seemingly after a suitcase of sauvignon blanc - in quick succession.

One can only assume she is so vociferously defending Johnson because he’s the only PM in living memory that would let her within 300 miles of the cabinet.

BamBam wrote:The horrible cnut also decided to use Jimmy Saville to score points against Keir Starmer

Indeed. Truly bizarre considering......

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/revealed-jimmy-savile-s-close-friendship-with-margaret-thatcher-8432351.html

Samo wrote:Quite incredible watching Nadine Dorries in 3 different car crash interviews - seemingly after a suitcase of sauvignon blanc - in quick succession.

One can only assume she is so vociferously defending Johnson because he’s the only PM in living memory that would let her within 300 miles of the cabinet.

I was convinced she'd been on the marching powder before those interviews, sauvignon isn't strong enough to make anyone act like that

Lindsay Hoyle says Johnson wont have to correct the record after his Savile slur towards Keir Starmer.

We have a parliament where its apparently perfectly OK to tell barefaced, demonstrable lies but if you have the gall to point that out you are punished.

How is that right in any sophisticated democracy? What a Frak embarrassment we must look to the outside.

Pippa Crerar of the Mirror who first broke the lockdown party story, reports that police have a picture of Johnson toasting with a can of beer at his birthday party in June 2020.

Wonder how they’ll spin this one.

Bottle of champagne at the Xmas quiz too

Pippa Crerar should write a book on the art of Death by 1000 cuts

And she's nowhere near finished either. That's what Tory MPs must know in their hearts, even the ultra-loyalists. There's more, and worse, to come.

BamBam wrote:Bottle of champagne at the Xmas quiz too

Pippa Crerar should write a book on the art of Death by 1000 cuts

And when it was pointed out to him in the HoC that this picture had been released said that the MP who pointed it out "is completely in error". He's so detached from reality its almost funny.

However, nearly 160k preventable deaths because of this shower of Poopie will always prevent it from being funny.

They just played a clip of Johnson speaking in Warsaw. Making it up as he goes along.

Duty281 wrote:For now the polling seems to have stabilised for the Tories, though further drops could happen depending on the police investigation/Gray report. Johnson's net approval ratings are on the floor, but not as bad as Major and Thatcher were at certain times (Major managed almost another three years as PM from his lowest ebb).

Regular double digit leads for Labour are now down to tiny single digit leads. Redfield from 13% to 5%; YouGov from 11% to 3%; Opinium from 10% to 3%. If this trend is maintained I'd expect the Tories to be back in the lead soon. With Covid itself starting to abate as a big issue, I'd expect a further lift for the Tories. What happens in Ukraine should be the most decisive event of the next few months.

Very early polling data also seems to indicate Johnson's approval ratings are on the way back up as are his h2h ratings v Starmer.

Better times for Johnson and the Tories with the local elections under three months away.

That would be a lot more interesting if there wasn't a police investigation still to conclude, and the full Gray report wasn't still looming on the horizon. 'Good news, that ball I threw in the air hasn't landed yet!'

Duty281 wrote:

Duty281 wrote:For now the polling seems to have stabilised for the Tories, though further drops could happen depending on the police investigation/Gray report. Johnson's net approval ratings are on the floor, but not as bad as Major and Thatcher were at certain times (Major managed almost another three years as PM from his lowest ebb).

Regular double digit leads for Labour are now down to tiny single digit leads. Redfield from 13% to 5%; YouGov from 11% to 3%; Opinium from 10% to 3%. If this trend is maintained I'd expect the Tories to be back in the lead soon. With Covid itself starting to abate as a big issue, I'd expect a further lift for the Tories. What happens in Ukraine should be the most decisive event of the next few months.

Very early polling data also seems to indicate Johnson's approval ratings are on the way back up as are his h2h ratings v Starmer.

Better times for Johnson and the Tories with the local elections under three months away.

He'll be hoping Russia invade and then he can do a bit of tub-thumping to try to win some votes. Nothing like a good war to stir up a bit of nationalism.

Scraping the barrel for positives for yer man as ever

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:That would be a lot more interesting if there wasn't a police investigation still to conclude, and the full Gray report wasn't still looming on the horizon. 'Good news, that ball I threw in the air hasn't landed yet!'

Which could range from a whole lot of nothing in political terms - e.g. the long-awaited Russia Report which was a prominent issue in the 2019 GE campaign, was released in mid-2020 to little fanfare or political adjustment - to the end of Johnson as PM.

For now, Johnson seems to think he can ride out the storm.

JuliusHMarx wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Duty281 wrote:For now the polling seems to have stabilised for the Tories, though further drops could happen depending on the police investigation/Gray report. Johnson's net approval ratings are on the floor, but not as bad as Major and Thatcher were at certain times (Major managed almost another three years as PM from his lowest ebb).

Regular double digit leads for Labour are now down to tiny single digit leads. Redfield from 13% to 5%; YouGov from 11% to 3%; Opinium from 10% to 3%. If this trend is maintained I'd expect the Tories to be back in the lead soon. With Covid itself starting to abate as a big issue, I'd expect a further lift for the Tories. What happens in Ukraine should be the most decisive event of the next few months.

Very early polling data also seems to indicate Johnson's approval ratings are on the way back up as are his h2h ratings v Starmer.

Better times for Johnson and the Tories with the local elections under three months away.

He'll be hoping Russia invade and then he can do a bit of tub-thumping to try to win some votes. Nothing like a good war to stir up a bit of nationalism.

Absolutely - the Falklands effect:

14th April 1982 - Labour lead by one% with Gallup.
14th June 1982 - Argentina defeated.
23rd June 1982 - Tories lead by twenty-seven% with Gallup.

Thatcher rides the wave all the way to the 1983 GE victory.

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/police-shoot-terrorists-first-ask-questions-later-angela-rayner-labour-crime-1466145

Big problem for Labour and their re-electability is idiots like Angela Rayner occupy prominent positions.

Duty281 wrote:https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/police-shoot-terrorists-first-ask-questions-later-angela-rayner-labour-crime-1466145

Big problem for Labour and their re-electability is idiots like Angela Rayner occupy prominent positions.

The Conservatives seem to do pretty well with their idiots (who often seem to back up stupidity with corruption and immoral behaviour). Holding the Labour party to infinitely higher standards than the conservatives seems to be a big thing for them and their allied media.

lostinwales wrote:

Duty281 wrote:https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/police-shoot-terrorists-first-ask-questions-later-angela-rayner-labour-crime-1466145

Big problem for Labour and their re-electability is idiots like Angela Rayner occupy prominent positions.

The Conservatives seem to do pretty well with their idiots (who often seem to back up stupidity with corruption and immoral behaviour). Holding the Labour party to infinitely higher standards than the conservatives seems to be a big thing for them and their allied media.

#whataboutery

lostinwales wrote:

Duty281 wrote:https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/police-shoot-terrorists-first-ask-questions-later-angela-rayner-labour-crime-1466145

Big problem for Labour and their re-electability is idiots like Angela Rayner occupy prominent positions.

The Conservatives seem to do pretty well with their idiots (who often seem to back up stupidity with corruption and immoral behaviour). Holding the Labour party to infinitely higher standards than the conservatives seems to be a big thing for them and their allied media.

This isn't about the Conservative Party.

It's about the utter stupidity of a senior Labour MP saying 'shoot first, ask questions later' and 'I want a copper to come and sort them out', when a core of Labour's vote is made up of non-white people who fear unjust prejudice and treatment from the police. These remarks will go down terribly with many Black and Muslim communities in the current climate. I know many in Labour think they can take these votes for granted, but this is misplaced and is a complacency that is starting to be tested.

Labour should be winning the next GE comfortably, but unlike Thatcher and Blair and (to an extent) Cameron, they don't look like a replacement government in waiting. Part of this is due to Starmer's inability to articulate a vision; another part is due to having a frontbench with people such as Rayner in it.

On the other hand a 'shoot first, ask later' policy will also win some votes. Who knows if it will win more than it loses.

JuliusHMarx wrote:On the other hand a 'shoot first, ask later' policy will also win some votes. Who knows if it will win more than it loses.

The type of person who it will win votes from are not those who would countenance voting Labour.

Duty281 wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:On the other hand a 'shoot first, ask later' policy will also win some votes. Who knows if it will win more than it loses.

The type of person who it will win votes from are not those who would countenance voting Labour.

I’d be interested on the polling on that. I think there would be more people who would like the sound of that than not.

Also - the fact that sentence that ‘Labour should win the election’ has been uttered is incredible considering what everyone was saying in Dec 19…

JDizzle wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:On the other hand a 'shoot first, ask later' policy will also win some votes. Who knows if it will win more than it loses.

The type of person who it will win votes from are not those who would countenance voting Labour.

I’d be interested on the polling on that. I think there would be more people who would like the sound of that than not.

Also - the fact that sentence that ‘Labour should win the election’ has been uttered is incredible considering what everyone was saying in Dec 19…

Yes, it would be interesting to see such polling. Maybe I'm misplaced, but I feel 'shoot-first' would mostly be popular with (some) right-wing and anarchist types, not quite the centrist type that Labour require.

I said Labour should be winning the next election in a general sense, I don't actually expect them to and neither have I expected this at any point. Labour are up against a deeply unpopular government, that has governed mostly in unpopularity for 12 years, and has done little of positive note for the country in that time. The government are also going for, in 2024, five election wins in a row; something which has not been achieved in modern British politics. When you consider that, 2024 should be a walkover for Labour (as should 2019 and 2017 and even perhaps 2015 have been), but they have been hampered by woeful leaders and terrible MPs like Rayner.

That's the state of play in this country. We have an inept government and a diabolical opposition that is propped up, and preventing any real, meaningful change, by millions of pounds of funding, ancient broadcasting rules and the horrendous FPTP system.

I wish I could be surprised by the weak sanctions imposed on Russia by the Tories, but then I remembered how much money the Tories get from Russia and it all makes sense.

This government have turned this country into an absolute laughing stock.

And it's yet another example of the Government talking tough to look good in the immediate short term, without seeming to give any consideration to the time when they'll actually have to back up their words with actions. Has a Government ever been so bad at planning ahead? It shouldn't be this hard to grasp. Don't talk the talk if you can't walk the walk.

Got to hand it to Jacob Rees-Mogg having the foresight to sell his shares in one of the banks before it was sanctioned. The mans obviously an incredibly smart business man and there is no reason to suspect any form of insider trading whatsoever.

Samo wrote:Got to hand it to Jacob Rees-Mogg having the foresight to sell his shares in one of the banks before it was sanctioned. The mans obviously an incredibly smart business man and there is no reason to suspect any form of insider trading whatsoever.

(Presuming you mean Sherbank)

Final shares sold last November after a two-year winding down process, so this wouldn't equal insider trading.

Also no evidence that Rees-Mogg is involved in investment decisions. In fact the opposite, as a statement from one of the partners at Somerset Capital Management says Rees-Mogg hasn't had such a role for over a decade.

Took under five minutes to fact check that as nonsense, but I see thousands of idiots on Twitter will do no such thing and believe what they want because it suits their beliefs. This is why politics and journalism is on the floor.

Duty281 wrote:

Samo wrote:Got to hand it to Jacob Rees-Mogg having the foresight to sell his shares in one of the banks before it was sanctioned. The mans obviously an incredibly smart business man and there is no reason to suspect any form of insider trading whatsoever.

(Presuming you mean Sherbank)

Final shares sold last November after a two-year winding down process, so this wouldn't equal insider trading.

Also no evidence that Rees-Mogg is involved in investment decisions. In fact the opposite, as a statement from one of the partners at Somerset Capital Management says Rees-Mogg hasn't had such a role for over a decade.

Took under five minutes to fact check that as nonsense, but I see thousands of idiots on Twitter will do no such thing and believe what they want because it suits their beliefs. This is why politics and journalism is on the floor.

It really is quite a talent to be able to type mostly coherent sentences while simultaneously deep throating a Tory boot, congratulations.

BamBam wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Samo wrote:Got to hand it to Jacob Rees-Mogg having the foresight to sell his shares in one of the banks before it was sanctioned. The mans obviously an incredibly smart business man and there is no reason to suspect any form of insider trading whatsoever.

(Presuming you mean Sherbank)

Final shares sold last November after a two-year winding down process, so this wouldn't equal insider trading.

Also no evidence that Rees-Mogg is involved in investment decisions. In fact the opposite, as a statement from one of the partners at Somerset Capital Management says Rees-Mogg hasn't had such a role for over a decade.

Took under five minutes to fact check that as nonsense, but I see thousands of idiots on Twitter will do no such thing and believe what they want because it suits their beliefs. This is why politics and journalism is on the floor.

It really is quite a talent to be able to type mostly coherent sentences while simultaneously deep throating a Tory boot, congratulations.

Fact-checking and desiring evidence for claims is not 'deepthroating a Tory boot', the last time I checked. I would prefer a democratic system based around facts and honesty, I'm sorry if you would prefer to deal in lies.

My sentences are indeed coherent, unlike most of yours.

And for the umpteenth time - I do not like the Tory Party and wish they weren't in office.

I’d hate to see how you’d go into bat for someone you did like. Probably only allowed to be seen on “specialist” websites

I don't believe fact-checking to be 'going into bat' for anyone. It's a pretty basic thing to do in the Internet age.

BamBam wrote:I’d hate to see how you’d go into bat for someone you did like. Probably only allowed to be seen on “specialist” websites

I mean, is he right or wrong? Insider trading is a pretty serious accusation. One that really should be backed up by facts.

Im sure its just a coincidence that a guy who has access to highly classified national security information, who  also still has a large number of shares in and still makes a boatload of money every year from a company that just managed to off load its shares just in time before the Moscow market went haywire, making him and his mates a nice little profit.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, sometimes its still worth an investigation into whether it is a duck or not.

I don't think it requires insider knowledge to work out that Russian troops gathering on the Ukranian border may lead to financial sanctions so those with investments there may be better off cashing in before that happens. Hardly worth mentioning.

Samo wrote:Im sure its just a coincidence that a guy who has access to highly classified national security information, who  also still has a large number of shares in and still makes a boatload of money every year from a company that just managed to off load its shares just in time before the Moscow market went haywire, making him and his mates a nice little profit.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, sometimes its still worth an investigation into whether it is a duck or not.

Again, incorrect. The shares started to be sold in 2019, well before this current situation started, and were completed last November - they weren't offloaded 'just in time'.

Worth noting, also, that JRM called for Russian sanctions in 2018. This would have harmed Somerset Capital Management's investment in Sherbank, but it doesn't seem to have deterred JRM.

There is also no evidence that they profited from this sale, and Rees Mogg receives dividends not direct profits anyway (as he has no business involvement anymore).

Ironic that you are calling for an investigation when you have done zero investigating yourself, just swallowed the fake news whole because 'Tories bad'.