England Under 20s squad

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Forwards
Archie McArthur (Gloucester)
George Patten (Northampton Saints)
Calum Scott (London Irish)
Finn Theobald-Thomas (Gloucester)
Nathan Jibulu (Harlequins)
Afolabi Fasogbon (London Irish)
James Halliwell (Bristol Bears)
Tim Hoyt (Leicester Tigers)
Harry Browne (Harlequins)
Lewis Chessum (Leicester Tigers)
Danny Eite (Gloucester)
Robert Carmichael (Leicester Tigers)
Finn Carnduff (Leicester Tigers)
Joshua Manz (Leicester Tigers)
Guy Pepper (Newcastle Falcons)
Josh Dingley (Bath Rugby)
Chandler Cunningham-South (London Irish)
Greg Fisilau (Exeter Chiefs)

Backs
Charlie Bracken (Saracens)
Nye Thomas (Sale Sharks)
Sam Harris (Bath Rugby)
Sam Worsley (Bristol Bears)
Cassius Cleaves (Harlequins)
Joseph Woodward (Leicester Tigers)
Rekeiti Ma'asi-White (Sale Sharks)
Benjamin Waghorn (Harlequins)
Jacob Cusick (Leicester Tigers)
Joe Jenkins (Bristol Bears)
Josh Hathaway (Gloucester)
Tobias Elliott (Saracens)
Connor Slevin (Harlequins)
Louie Johnson (Newcastle Falcons)

Some interesting players here, dual qualified Hathaway swapping nations. A couple of simply mahoosive 20 stone tightheads in Hoyt and Fasogbon. The backrow of Cunningham-South, Pepper and Fisilau would be exceptional at this level if they are actually available. Nye Thomas a very explosive scrum half to add spice in a position we looked weak in during the junior world cup. Lewis Chessum a man not known for being short has brought his taller pal Rob Carmichael into camp with him. The bloke is a mere 6ft11. If the hookers can't successfully throw the ball to those two then they should really consider other positions or forms of employment.

Indeed, Scotland playing well.

Cumbrian wrote:Indeed, Scotland playing well.

Buckled under the pressure there. Could have been a card had England not gone over, could have been one for the cynical tackle for not 10. England really needed that spell of pressure as it was all Scotland otherwise this second half.

Think the commentators were right, England seemed to get taken in by the spike involved.

You have to say that if they play like this against Ireland or France they will get a shoeing.

Christ, what was that?! He has left six points on the pitch now.

That was a bad miss, hope it does not cost them!

Cumbrian wrote:Think the commentators were right, England seemed to get taken in by the spike involved.

You have to say that if they play like this against Ireland or France they will get a shoeing.

You can't play with so little line speed and no fetchers in the pack. It's a recipe to give the opposition momentum. It's alright naming a big pack but you need line speed so that you can make the big tackles.

Oh they spooned that one!

Wow England butchered that. Great defence from Scotland but I think the Scotland 9 bats that into touch. Might be good there's no TMO.

Aye England have butchered a couple in this, would certainly be fair for Scotland to get a LBP.

Well done England, pulled it back in the end.

What a cracking game though and from my point of view. lots to be encouraged by the Scottish kids, we always struggle at this level, but there may be some hope that we are catching up!

As a Tigers fan I was pretty happy with how captain Chessum went and how his massive pal Carmichael helped add some muscle when he came on. With Carnduff as well the production line of locks and 6s looks to still be working.

Woodman needs to start for England next week, unless they can get hold of even more of a ball hog in the meantime. Need a way to legally slow down the opposition.

There's a chance Cunningham-South will be involved in the Prem Cup for LI next weekend, which may be an opportunity to move Fisilau to 8 and rebalance.

The wing who came on today is an U18. If they are fair game, I would get Pollock involved. Still in school, but already played senior rugby for Saints in the Prem Cup. He looks a superb 7.

England lacked a fetcher, and just couldn't keep the ball for long periods in the 2nd half. That 13 looks useful though

Hathaway to Dragons.

Edit, wrong thread!

Didn't know the result, so watched the highlights on the England Rugby channel. You get a series of first half tries, where England seem to be running away with the game. Then the action shifts to the final quarter, where England are, mysteriously, 36-31 behind, which is the only clue that the clip is, literally, just the England highlights.

Cracking game, watched it live as on BBC. Looked like Eng were running it away with it then comeback with shades of 2019.

lostinwales wrote:England lacked a fetcher, and just couldn't keep the ball for long periods in the 2nd half. That 13 looks useful though

He played 12 for the under 20s last year and dropped as much as he caught. Huge improvement so far from him this year, looked like he'd really gone away and worked on his skills. A big lad with hands like that is a rare find. He's moved up to Sale after Wasps went under so it'll be interesting to see if they see him as the understudy to Manu and Hill in the direct 12 role or to Sam James in the linking 13 role.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

lostinwales wrote:England lacked a fetcher, and just couldn't keep the ball for long periods in the 2nd half. That 13 looks useful though

He played 12 for the under 20s last year and dropped as much as he caught. Huge improvement so far from him this year, looked like he'd really gone away and worked on his skills. A big lad with hands like that is a rare find. He's moved up to Sale after Wasps went under so it'll be interesting to see if they see him as the understudy to Manu and Hill in the direct 12 role or to Sam James in the linking 13 role.

Unfortunately I missed a lot of the 1st half but saw him put the winger in for a try with a lovely pass

lostinwales wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

lostinwales wrote:England lacked a fetcher, and just couldn't keep the ball for long periods in the 2nd half. That 13 looks useful though

He played 12 for the under 20s last year and dropped as much as he caught. Huge improvement so far from him this year, looked like he'd really gone away and worked on his skills. A big lad with hands like that is a rare find. He's moved up to Sale after Wasps went under so it'll be interesting to see if they see him as the understudy to Manu and Hill in the direct 12 role or to Sam James in the linking 13 role.

Unfortunately I missed a lot of the 1st half but saw him put the winger in for a try with a lovely pass

Pretty much the same for Hathaway's other two tries.

This team can really play when they are focused and confident.

Italian scrum smashing ours, we'll be lucky to avoid a yellow card here.

Bit harsh the ruck that led to that. Italian clearly stepped away and you'd normally get that ignored.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Bit harsh the ruck that led to that. Italian clearly stepped away and you'd normally get that ignored.

I thought so too, as long as he is consistent though....

Needed a bit more composure there. Lucky to get the shot at goal.

For the love of God! Don't drop the ball in the 22...!

Cumbrian wrote:Needed a bit more composure there.  Lucky to get the shot at goal.

Dunno with this ref it looks like anything is possible.

England's scrum has got to do better though, we're getting marmalised up front.

Christ they made hard work of that in the end!

Was a fantastic score though.

That tight head of Italys looks great.

Aye their front three look decent, I like the passion from their loosehead too. They've definitely got some quality coming through up front. Would like to see a little more from their backs.

Is he seriously considering a red card for this????

Cumbrian wrote:Is he seriously considering a red card for this????

Sounded ominously like it didn't it. Thankfully commonsense prevailed.

Where was the TMO there though? Carnduff got a right forearm in the chops on the way to being tackled into touch.

That was a penalty try and a yellow card every day of the week...

Neck roll right in front of you referee!

They were all offside there too!

But what did we learn? The English bench is better than the Italian bench. The Italian first team pack is really good and dominated the English, who clearly need help. The England 13 is really good. The ref was.......different.

doctor_grey wrote:But what did we learn?  The English bench is better than the Italian bench.  The Italian first team pack is really good and dominated the English, who clearly need help.  The England 13 is really good.  The ref was.......different.

Aye, England's replacement props shored things up. Gallorini should probably have bought McAuthur dinner before this.  Then again the Englishman did give away lots of KGs to him, which probably matters more at this level.  

Italy feel like they are close, this is all generally positive for them.

Cumbrian wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:But what did we learn?  The English bench is better than the Italian bench.  The Italian first team pack is really good and dominated the English, who clearly need help.  The England 13 is really good.  The ref was.......different.

Aye, England's replacement props shored things up. Gallorini should probably have bought McAuthur dinner before this.  Then again the Englishman did give away lots of KGs to him, which probably matters more at this level.  

Italy feel like they are close, this is all generally positive for them.

I hope they really are close.  They need it.  Frankly, I thought Italy were the better team in the 1st half and England were fortunate to have a lead.

Team's up for the match against Wales


England men's U20 team v Wales

1. Archie McArthur (Gloucester)
2. Finn Theobald-Thomas (Gloucester)
3. Tim Hoyt (Leicester Tigers)
4. Danny Eite (Gloucester)
5. Lewis Chessum (Leicester Tigers)
6. Finn Carnduff (Leicester Tigers)
7. Tristan Woodman (Sale Sharks)
8. Greg Fisilau (Exeter Chiefs)
9. Charlie Bracken (Saracens)
10. Monty Bradbury (London Irish)
11. Josh Hathaway (Gloucester)
12. Joseph Woodward (Leicester Tigers)
13. Rekeiti Ma'asi-White (Sale Sharks)
14. Tobias Elliott (Saracens)
15. Sam Harris (Bath Rugby)

Replacements

16. Calum Scott (London Irish)
17. Asher Opoku-Fordjour (Sale Sharks)
18. Afolabi Fasogbon (London Irish)
19. Robert Carmichael (Leicester Tigers)
20. Joshua Manz (Leicester Tigers)
21. Nye Thomas (Sale Sharks)
22. Louie Johnson (Newcastle Falcons)
23. Benjamin Waghorn (Harlequins)

I assume CCS is back on club duty?

lostinwales wrote:I assume CCS is back on club duty?

Presumably will be lining up for LI Vs Tigers this weekend.

He'll be a big loss but in terms of balance Woodman offers more of a stereotypical openside option.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

lostinwales wrote:I assume CCS is back on club duty?

Presumably will be lining up for LI Vs Tigers this weekend.

He'll be a big loss but in terms of balance Woodman offers more of a stereotypical openside option.

Yes. Fisilau has looked a real handful ball in hand but he's not really cut out to be the kind of jackling, tackling link man that we would normally want at 7.

Scrappy game so far, best break has come from the young Welsh 9. Maybe a little lucky to not give away a penalty with the attempted intercept, it is a bit of a lottery with those decisions.

Why they always have a welsh commentary team?

Good decision by the ref there.
Despite the opinion of the commentary

lostinwales wrote:Why they always have a welsh commentary team?

I’m watching on S4C - would be pretty sh*t if it was an English commentary team on a Welsh language channel!

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Good decision by the ref there

Lucky for the English player I feel, as there have been loads of those same challenges carded this season.

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Good decision by the ref there

Lucky for the English player I feel, as there have been loads of those same challenges carded this season.

His head is always low and I don’t see the need for the shot. It is a penalty minimum for me.

RiscaGame wrote:

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Good decision by the ref there

Lucky for the English player I feel, as there have been loads of those same challenges carded this season.

His head is always low and I don’t see the need for the shot. It is a penalty minimum for me.

There is no shot there is no illegality.

Game over. Solid win. Good performances from the back row Woodman deserved mom.
Bradbury looks a classy player.