Boxing in 2023

First topic message reminder :

I know boxing has served up very little in the way of quality matchups at the highest level lately, but along with Davis-Garcia in the Spring we do appear to be on the verge of another exciting announcement as Stephen Fulton will reportedly be travelling to Japan to defend his Super-Bantamweight titles against Noaya Inoue.

I mentioned last year that this was one fight I'd love to see Inoue taking. If you believe the figures being bandied about, Fulton will earn around $3 million for this defence, which might explain why he's travelling despite being the defending champion - but good on him! Fair play to Inoue as well for going straight for the (probable on balance) top man at 122 as he looks to conquer yet another weight class having sewn up all the belts at Bantam.

As a career 122-pounder Fulton is probably the biggest guy Inoue will have fought, but he also brings a superb engine to the table along with a good array of shots and the ability to string them together proficiently. He's good on the inside, can work the high-low and shorten the punches and, although he's not a big hitter, he doesn't waste much as he's aggressive with what he does throw.

That said, he gets hit a hell of a lot and isn't that effective at range, which is going to be a huge problem for him here assuming Inoue's power and timing isn't suddenly blunted at Super-Bantam. Fulton was buzzed once or twice against Figueroa and showed he's tough and can take / regroup from a big shot, but taking shots from Figueroa and taking them from Inoue are two very different things.

Still, if they can get this over the line it will be a proper fight between two high-performing and peak world champions to look forward to.

Soul Requiem wrote:

Jeff Navarro wrote:This situation is entirely on Usyk. He’s not a draw and never will be. Whether he has 1 belt or 10 belts, he’ll always be the B side.
Why on earth should there be a rematch after they fight for the undisputed? It’s Usyk begging for the rematch. Bloody pathetic.
He can go fight Dubois for pennies now.

It's pathetic that people buy into Fury's garbage, he lacks balls. That's all there is to it, he's a cowardly homophobic, racist, misogynistic scumbag.

Did Fury want rematch clause? No.
Did Usyk want rematch clause? Yes

Why is there a need for a rematch unless there is a draw.
Meaningless rematch clauses kill boxing.

If Usyk were to win, highly improbable, he can go fight Joshua again. The other draw at heavyweight.

Did Fury demand a 70/30 split for an undisputed title fight? Yes, and when it was accepted he put yet more issues in the way, grow some balls Tyson.

Usyk bottled it begging for a needless rematch clause.

Lawrence Okolie retained his WBO cruiserweight title against previously unbeaten David Light by unanimous decision. Pretty lacklustre from Okolie.
Scorecards: 116-112, 119-108 and 117-110

You're talking as if Fury never wanted a rematch clause though, Jeff. As we know now, he did. He just wanted unreasonable terms for it in the event of hypothetically losing the first fight.

For what it's worth, I'm not a fan of this obsession with rematch clauses or two-fight deals which seem have become almost de rigueur when any genuinely big fight is made these days. They hold up the division, stop other potentially exciting fights from being made and often leave us with rematches which absolutely nobody is excited about and which we pretty much know is a foregone conclusion if one fighter wins the first contest easily (Haney-Kambosos being a recent example).

But hey, the big name fighters are keen on them and it was no different in this situation.

If Fury's worth 70% without ever having beaten Usyk, then it's hardly outrageous that Usyk should deem himself worthy of 70% after having actually beaten Fury, is it? Sure, Fury might contribute to more PPV sales in the UK, but surely you can't expect Usyk not to take the lion's share in a rematch if he'd beaten Fury first time out?

But why have a rematch in the first place? You lose, you move on.
Endless stupid rematches do nothing for the sport.
And no Usyk didn’t get better then 50/50 for his rematch with Joshua, so 70-30 against Fury in a hypothetical rematch is delusional.

Bayless ruining the fight again, breaking the action as soon as Benavides gets inside

The state of Bayless' refereeing. Plant is initiating the holding, yet he's warning Benavidez? Writing looks on the wall for Plant now though.

‘Mexican Monster’ took Plant apart in rounds 8-11. It’s a credit to Plant that he didn’t get KO’d.

Plant has a tendency to fade late in fights, even in ones he's won like against Uzcategui, and it happened again here. He's got genuine skills, but against the more rugged guys his cut-price Mayweather act uses up too much energy and movement which he can't sustain in the championship rounds.

Predictable from Benavidez. Slow-ish start but eventually made his size, strength and durability tell. Think Bayless' performance and seeming unawareness that inside fighting is a real thing might have robbed him of a stoppage in the late rounds, but nevertheless a good win for him.

Plant took a lot of punishment in the second half of the fight. Boy was he doing some holding at times, and I guess after the Canelo loss he's learned how to survive by any means necessary....But even allowing for the holding and spoiling, he showed a big heart and good chin to see it out.

They’d love to keep Benavidez away from Canelo but they’re not going to be able to

Jeff Navarro wrote:But why have a rematch in the first place? You lose, you move on.
Endless stupid rematches do nothing for the sport.
And no Usyk didn’t get better then 50/50 for his rematch with Joshua, so 70-30 against Fury in a hypothetical rematch is delusional.

He wasn't the undisputed champion in that case and AJ is a far bigger draw than Fury. AJ has historically sold whomever he's fighting, Fury has sold when fighting Wilder.

Soul Requiem wrote:

Jeff Navarro wrote:But why have a rematch in the first place? You lose, you move on.
Endless stupid rematches do nothing for the sport.
And no Usyk didn’t get better then 50/50 for his rematch with Joshua, so 70-30 against Fury in a hypothetical rematch is delusional.

He wasn't the undisputed champion in that case and AJ is a far bigger draw than Fury. AJ has historically sold whomever he's fighting, Fury has sold when fighting Wilder.

They want the return bout in Saudi. The Saudis won’t pay the fee the offered for Fury vs Joshua…

Herman Jaeger wrote:They’d love to keep Benavidez away from Canelo but they’re not going to be able to

Alvarez won’t fight Benavidez. He’ll face Ryder and Bivol - then drop WBC 168 title

Jeff Navarro wrote:

Herman Jaeger wrote:They’d love to keep Benavidez away from Canelo but they’re not going to be able to

Alvarez won’t fight Benavidez. He’ll face Ryder and Bivol - then drop WBC 168 title

I don’t think Canelo’s running from the fight, I just think he wants to be well compensated for it. If and when the fight does happen though,  Benavidez just needs to make sure Bayless or Tony Weeks  isn’t wearing the bow tie

Jeff Navarro wrote:Lawrence Okolie retained his WBO cruiserweight title against previously unbeaten David Light by unanimous decision. Pretty lacklustre from Okolie.
Scorecards: 116-112, 119-108 and 117-110

Just caught up on this fight. Another Okolie stinker.

I'm not sure who the worst world title holder in the sport is currently, but Okolie might just be the least watchable. The guy has physical advantages over every guy he faces and yet he still makes dour work of everything and spends most of his fights throwing a long, slappy right hand before grabbing hold.

Talk of him making any serious inroads at Heavyweight if / when he moves up is very fanciful based on his career so far. He hasn't even developed a worthwhile jab. I don't think he could compete with a Briedis or Opetaia at Cruiser, never mind the big lads at Heavy. Presumably Steward has been brought in to get him fighting more aggressively and utilising his size, but he's got his work cut out here. I think Okolie is just too naturally risk-averse and skittish to have it trained out of him.

Did anyone else catch Commey against Ramirez?

Excellent, all-action fight. Even though he lost it's the best Commey has looked in a long time, and it might be the best Ramirez has ever looked overall, despite him being an odd case of a tall Light-Welter who basically never looks to use his height and reach at all.

Actually had Commey edging it after ten due to his cleaner punching. Ramirez was missing a hell of a lot of shots in the middle rounds and the fight looked like it might be getting away from him, although as the home town fighter he'd have likely got the rub from the judges. I'd be interested to know how the cards looked at the time of the stoppage but wouldn't be surprised if they all had him up by a couple.

Commey responded really well after a difficult start, and Ramirez in turn responded well after those difficult rounds 6-9. For some reason in those rounds he stopped working the body as effectively as he'd been doing early on and was getting tagged cleanly as Commey grew in confidence and started using his better outside skills. But once Ramirez started working the body again in round ten he stopped the rot, and sure enough it was the body assault which set up the knockout in the following round.

Very enjoyable scrap. This might well prove to be Commey's last heroic stand and I suspect he'd be better off retiring, but Top Rank still seem intent on matching him with some of their better names. As for Ramirez...Well this was a WBC eliminator and him against Prograis would be guaranteed value for money and a very respectable defence for Prograis. Lopez is currently the WBC and WBO's number one, but as he's going down the WBO / Taylor route that might well clear the way for Ramirez to get a crack at Prograis.

Said it before, but Light-Welter really is a terrific division at the moment in terms of interesting, evenly-matched fights (or rematches) which could be made and having a depth of exciting performers.

Herman Jaeger wrote:

Jeff Navarro wrote:

Herman Jaeger wrote:They’d love to keep Benavidez away from Canelo but they’re not going to be able to

Alvarez won’t fight Benavidez. He’ll face Ryder and Bivol - then drop WBC 168 title

I don’t think Canelo’s running from the fight, I just think he wants to be well compensated for it. If and when the fight does happen though,  Benavidez just needs to make sure Bayless or Tony Weeks  isn’t wearing the bow tie

I didn’t say Alvarez would run but after he gets slapped by Bivol again, I don’t see Alvarez wanting to fight Benavidez.

WBA somewhat bizarrely ordered David Morrell(WBA secondary belt holder) vs David Benavidez(WBC interim champion)…

Would be an incredible fight, but Benavidez is mandatory for Canelo. Secondly WBC doesn’t recognise WBA secondary belt.

Jeff Navarro wrote:

Herman Jaeger wrote:

Jeff Navarro wrote:

Herman Jaeger wrote:They’d love to keep Benavidez away from Canelo but they’re not going to be able to

Alvarez won’t fight Benavidez. He’ll face Ryder and Bivol - then drop WBC 168 title

I don’t think Canelo’s running from the fight, I just think he wants to be well compensated for it. If and when the fight does happen though,  Benavidez just needs to make sure Bayless or Tony Weeks  isn’t wearing the bow tie

I didn’t say Alvarez would run but after he gets slapped by Bivol again, I don’t see Alvarez wanting to fight Benavidez.

The rematch is at 68 right? Bivol could be severely drained at 68. It’s not a foregone conclusion that Bivol slaps him at 68. Surely?

Herman Jaeger wrote:

Jeff Navarro wrote:

Herman Jaeger wrote:

Jeff Navarro wrote:

Herman Jaeger wrote:They’d love to keep Benavidez away from Canelo but they’re not going to be able to

Alvarez won’t fight Benavidez. He’ll face Ryder and Bivol - then drop WBC 168 title

I don’t think Canelo’s running from the fight, I just think he wants to be well compensated for it. If and when the fight does happen though,  Benavidez just needs to make sure Bayless or Tony Weeks  isn’t wearing the bow tie

I didn’t say Alvarez would run but after he gets slapped by Bivol again, I don’t see Alvarez wanting to fight Benavidez.

The rematch is at 68 right? Bivol could be severely drained at 68. It’s not a foregone conclusion that Bivol slaps him at 68. Surely?

This all feels very lose/lose for Alvarez; if he did manage to beat him at 168lbs then there would be legitimate question marks about Bivols weight.

As far as I recall Bivol said if they offered him enough money he’d do it at 168. But since then I’ve not heard anything about 168 or 175.
But yeah maybe Bivol will be tight at the weight, but he’s a relatively small 175 fighter.
And Canelo’s stamina above 160 isn’t exactly great.
So both probably cancel each out.

Canelo won’t be fighting Bivol again at 175. You can take that to the bank

Herman Jaeger wrote:Canelo won’t be fighting Bivol again at 175. You can take that to the bank

I can’t see Canelo beating Bivol. Whether it’s 168 or 175.
And if he doesn’t want to dance with the Russian again, he faces Benavidez. And loses.

Let’s say he drains Bivol’s ass and beats him, who do you think they can wheel out for him to fight so they can stall Benavidez? Obviously need someone with name recognition. Berlanga? Maybe they’ll get a couple of wins into Berlanga this year. And then all you need is a YouTube push and bingo you got a fight

Well Canelo has all the belts at 168 so in theory he can fight anyone but Benavidez…
But back to Bivol, remember this isn’t an obligated rematch. Canelo passed on that to fight GGG the third time.
So if Canelo tries to get too much in his favour, Bivol can just walk away. After all, he’s already beaten the Mexican anyway…

Why would Bivol walk away? Where else is he going to get 20 mill? Don’t know about you but I’d cut my arm off for that

Herman Jaeger wrote:Why would Bivol walk away? Where else is he going to get 20 mill? Don’t know about you but I’d cut my arm off for that

Bivol vs Beterbiev does big money at the Olympic stadium in Moscow, Luzhniki iirc.

It’s a better fight too, but don’t see it happening this year

Jeff Navarro wrote:

Herman Jaeger wrote:Why would Bivol walk away? Where else is he going to get 20 mill? Don’t know about you but I’d cut my arm off for that

Bivol vs Beterbiev does big money at the Olympic stadium in Moscow, Luzhniki iirc.

Think Russia has other things going on...........Bivol and Beterbiev don't sell I'm afraid....Why Beterbiev fought Yarde over here...

Eastern bloc fighters are lepers mainly because of the lack of English....

Usyks promoter has repeated more clearly that Tyson Fury refused to donate £1 million to a children's charity for Ukrainian children or donate £1 million to any Ukrainian charity and this greatly aggrieved Usyk given that was a precondition for his deadline day acceptance of 70:30. The rematch clause plus a few other details were the final straw and so Usyk pulled out. However it was Fury's refusal to donate anything to a Ukrainian charity that really angered Usyk.

Usyk confirms himself a coward. Why should Fury donate money to Ukraine?

They both seem as bad as each other tbh, who knows what went on behind closed doors.

I think it would better if both just removed themselves from social media and concentrated on boxing.

The last thing on Fury-Usyk, the Saudis were only interested in that fight in winter time. Which was supposedly made clear on multiple occasions.

Anyway Usyk vs Dubois seems close to being confirmed.
Fury seems like he’ll fight Joyce

Jeff Navarro wrote: Usyk vs Dubois seems close to being confirmed.
Fury seems like he’ll fight Joyce

These will be very interesting fights: big hitting Dubois against Highly skilled Usyk, and a blockbuster fight the Juggernaut versus the Behemoth.   If Fury does fight Joyce then I think that would maybe repair some of the damage befallen him given that the majority of reporters and commentators blame Fury for "ducking" Usyk. Joyce appears to be a more dangerous threat to Fury than Usyk.

Lara vs Wood rematch confirmed for May 27 in Manchester.
Seems like Wood refused to step aside for Lara vs Warrington 3, as Hearn had earlier stated his plan.

Robeisy Ramirez, the Cuban double Olympic champion, beat Isaac Dogboe to win the vacant WBO featherweight title.

Anyone else see that Wilder has suddenly been elevated to number one in the WBA Heavyweight rankings this week? Apparently Finkel is therefore negotiating some step aside money for Dubois, so Wilder can have a crack at Usyk first instead. Dubois gets paid for doing nothing and gets a shot at whoever wins, if you believe Finkel's version of events.

Shady business.....But we're all hypocrites from time to time, and I actually could put my morals aside for this, because Dubois has virtually zero chance against Usyk and there's no intrigue in that fight. Dubois was all-but TKOd by a journeyman last time out and needed some shady carry on himself to get the win. As long as Dubois holds out for a good payoff then him stepping aside might be the best thing for him overall, as he'll get two decent pay days out of his WBA 'Regular Champion' status rather than one. He's not beating anyone near the top of the division.

Usyk vs Wilder is most definitely a better fight than Usyk vs Dubois

Jeff Navarro wrote:Usyk vs Wilder is most definitely a better fight than Usyk vs Dubois

Wilder can see a cagey but slow Cruiser and knows he only needs to land once in 36 minutes.......I'd be surprised if Wilder wasn't pre fight favourite....I'd also be surprised if Usyk's team wouldn't be in on the Wilder number 1 slot too.......Big fight and Dubois isn't...Dubois probably gets 36 minutes to land a shot too.

Usyk like Spinks has a power problem at Heavy.....He also struggled with Chisora..

Usyk v Wilder could be a very interesting contest. You could imagine Wilder walking away with the win and being right in the mix again.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Usyk v Wilder could be a very interesting contest. You could imagine Wilder walking away with the win and being right in the mix again.

Wilder winning would actually be beneficial for Joshua

When all these current fighters retire they will all be assessed fairly based on their record and based on the quality and ruggedness of the fighters around them.   Recency bias and disappointments will fade away.  Hopefully there will be a new era of exciting boxers but I get a feeling that boxing as a sport is dying because of

a) too many world title belts.
b) too much money at the elite level
c) too many elite level boxers avoiding each other
d) not enough good fights
e) too many other interests and distractions for children / teens
f) not enough public broadcast coverage or interest
g) ....

Jeff Navarro wrote:Robeisy Ramirez, the Cuban double Olympic champion, beat Isaac Dogboe to win the vacant WBO featherweight title.

I thought the cards were quite harsh on Dogboe in this one. No doubt Ramirez won it, but not by the margins the judges returned. It was a competitive fight and not much in it for the first six rounds.

Anyway, as a couple of us discussed after Lara-Wood a few weeks back, Featherweight isn't the deepest-looking division at the moment and Ramirez could become the cream of the crop there if he keeps improving. As with any Cuban with such outstanding amateur pedigree, he's got the fluidity, footwork and timing which you'd expect but he needs to up his output, add some more variety to his punch arsenal (his counter left upstairs and lead left to the body was beautiful at times, but his jab isn't up to scratch yet and a lot of his combinations were hitting gloves) and get more comfortable punching on the back foot so he doesn't cede ground as easily.

If he can improve in those areas, though, he could be a hell of a fighter in the professional ranks as well. Obviously a lot of natural talent there and he makes things look easy when he's flowing.

No name Bertie wrote:When all these current fighters retire they will all be assessed fairly based on their record and based on the quality and ruggedness of the fighters around them.   Recency bias and disappointments will fade away.  Hopefully there will be a new era of exciting boxers but I get a feeling that boxing as a sport is dying because of

a) too many world title belts.
b) too much money at the elite level
c) too many elite level boxers avoiding each other
d) not enough good fights
e) too many other interests and distractions for children / teens
f) not enough public broadcast coverage or interest
g) ....

G.  "Social Media inventions selling".....Started when Mcgregor and Mayweather realised just hurling insults at eachother gave them millions in a fight that was similar in Boxing talent to the local pub team taking on Manchester United....

Hard to see a future for Boxing in the Alphabet era with non Boxing fans paying for Paul and Fury on PPV.....After all some annoying...ugly Man and Wife win the christmas charts just by getting followers to purchase an awful song every year....Obvious shrewd media personalities will eye up Boxing for the same thing.

The greatest sport of them all is being abused and destroyed and its sad.

Amir Khan banned for 2 years due to Osterone, bet he's gutted

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/boxing/65173545

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

No name Bertie wrote:When all these current fighters retire they will all be assessed fairly based on their record and based on the quality and ruggedness of the fighters around them.   Recency bias and disappointments will fade away.  Hopefully there will be a new era of exciting boxers but I get a feeling that boxing as a sport is dying because of

a) too many world title belts.
b) too much money at the elite level
c) too many elite level boxers avoiding each other
d) not enough good fights
e) too many other interests and distractions for children / teens
f) not enough public broadcast coverage or interest
g) ....

G.  "Social Media inventions selling".....Started when Mcgregor and Mayweather realised just hurling insults at eachother gave them millions in a fight that was similar in Boxing talent to the local pub team taking on Manchester United....

Hard to see a future for Boxing in the Alphabet era with non Boxing fans paying for Paul and Fury on PPV.....After all some annoying...ugly Man and Wife win the christmas charts just by getting followers to purchase an awful song every year....Obvious shrewd media personalities will eye up Boxing for the same thing.

The greatest sport of them all is being abused and destroyed and its sad.

You've hit the nail on the head with this Truss, as youtube 'boxing' surges in popularity and those on the platform get paid more than those coming up through the ranks can see our sport being a shadow of what it once was

Multiple outlets claiming Crawford vs Spence will happen on June 19 in Las Vegas.

Jeff Navarro wrote:Multiple outlets claiming Crawford vs Spence will happen on June 19 in Las Vegas.

Happening 5 years too late. Fight was primed when Crawford moved up to welterweight in 2018. PBC used the excuse of freezing Bob out

Didn't see it mentioned last week, but I'm sure most are aware that Sunny Edwards and Jack Catterall recently signed for Hearn / Matchroom.

Edwards thus remedies Matchroom's short-term problem of having no current British world title holders. I think Matchroom is still a good place to be for most British guys at world level, but they've got their work cut out with Edwards. Appreciate his fleeting movement, decent technique and all that - but he's in an unglamorous division with a back-foot style and zero knockout power. He's not a bad talker, but I'm struggling to see him ever breaking through that niche market that only the hardcore fans bother with.

As for Catterall, it might just kill any hopes of a Taylor rematch, given the animosity between Matchroom and Top Rank, and I feel it's a move which has maybe come a bit too late for him. A year or two ago Hearn could have potentially built his profile towards a fight with Haney in the future, but Haney is now gone and it's not a guarantee he can get him in there with someone like Garcia, either.

But I guess he needed to change something, because his career and profile have hit the bricks since the Taylor controversy. His close handlers are claiming they are in tentative negotiations with Prograis, which would be a fantastic fight. He's probably a shade more marketable than Edwards and at least has some more interesting fights in and around his division, politics permitting, so hopefully Hearn can build his profile up to a level more befitting him. He just needs to get back in there sooner rather than later, even if it's a run-of-the-mill opponent.