Boxing in 2023

First topic message reminder :

I know boxing has served up very little in the way of quality matchups at the highest level lately, but along with Davis-Garcia in the Spring we do appear to be on the verge of another exciting announcement as Stephen Fulton will reportedly be travelling to Japan to defend his Super-Bantamweight titles against Noaya Inoue.

I mentioned last year that this was one fight I'd love to see Inoue taking. If you believe the figures being bandied about, Fulton will earn around $3 million for this defence, which might explain why he's travelling despite being the defending champion - but good on him! Fair play to Inoue as well for going straight for the (probable on balance) top man at 122 as he looks to conquer yet another weight class having sewn up all the belts at Bantam.

As a career 122-pounder Fulton is probably the biggest guy Inoue will have fought, but he also brings a superb engine to the table along with a good array of shots and the ability to string them together proficiently. He's good on the inside, can work the high-low and shorten the punches and, although he's not a big hitter, he doesn't waste much as he's aggressive with what he does throw.

That said, he gets hit a hell of a lot and isn't that effective at range, which is going to be a huge problem for him here assuming Inoue's power and timing isn't suddenly blunted at Super-Bantam. Fulton was buzzed once or twice against Figueroa and showed he's tough and can take / regroup from a big shot, but taking shots from Figueroa and taking them from Inoue are two very different things.

Still, if they can get this over the line it will be a proper fight between two high-performing and peak world champions to look forward to.

I like Sunny Edwards a lot, Chris. I share your view on his limitations so far but here’s hoping he keeps improving.
As for Catterall, well as Lyndon said, “ Ever had the feeling you’ve been cheated?”

Well right on cue, it looks as if Matchroom are going to shoehorn Catterall on the Wood-Lara II undercard in a few weeks. He'll be fighting Darragh Foley by the looks of things.

Foley's at least coming in off a half-decent win (albeit with mitigating factors), but not likely to be a fight that's very easy on the eye. But Catterall just needs to be active at this point. Beat Foley, maybe take on a ranked contender in the summer and then, with a bit of luck, he might be able to target a world title fight at the back end of 2023.

Mentioned yesterday that signing with Matchroom might make the Taylor rematch difficult to make politically, but if a deal can be thrashed out, and if Taylor can get past Lopez, then late 2023 would be perfect for the rematch unless Taylor announces he's moving up. Barring that, he'd have no valid excuses for not facing Catterall again.

If Lopez-Taylor actually happens on June 10th, that is. Only nine weeks away and we've still not got a venue or a press conference. Seems to have been pencilled in for a long time without actually being confirmed.

Stevenson's Lightweight debut was a bit of a waste of time and nothing more than a bag session for him, really. Yoshino was absolutely dreadful, capped off with a pathetic stoppage from the referee.

No doubting that Stevenson is a very talented and tidy boxer, mind you...Just still a little bit slappy with some of his punching and obviously lacking power. Also hasn't had his gas tank or chin tested yet. But based on skill, athleticism and ring intelligence I think he'll prove a cut above Haney in the long run. It looks like the pair of them have knocked the old "We're friends so we can never fight" schtick on the head, so for Top Rank the equations seems pretty simple: keep Stevenson ticking over and then put him in with the winner of Lomachenko-Haney.

Meanwhile, anyone see the Fundora hype train come to a halt (potentially just a temporary one, in fairness) over the weekend? I'd only seen one Fundora fight before this (against Cota) and was almost deliberately going out my way to avoid watching him, as I just couldn't be doing with all the premature talk about him being ready to leather Jermell Charlo right now and how he was the next Tommy Hearns etc. etc. But based on that fight and now this one I find it amazing that such a freakishly tall and lanky Light-Middle seems hell-bent on making zero effort to utilise that height and reach at all. Similar to Paul Williams back in the day. I'm not saying you need to be an exclusively play-it-safe jab merchant who never mixes it up, but Fundora seems to know nothing else other than trying to punch with his opponent in close and winging in wide power shots.

He was on top before the knockout, but there's something about these exceptionally lanky and tall guys for their weight which always makes them look a little vulnerable....At least to me. I guess we're all biased to or against certain styles and fighter aesthetics, and maybe that's another reason I've not been too fussed about tracking Fundora's development.

Anyway, great left hook to set up the knockout salvo from Mendoza. To be fair to him, whatever other limitations he has, the guy can crack and he flattened (an admittedly slightly chinny) Rosario with a similar highlight reel KO a while back, too. Talk of matching Fundora with Charlo soon was obviously premature and it'll be interesting to see if he has the willingness or smarts to alter his style when he attempts to bounce back from this. Given the way he fights, maybe this shouldn't be quite as big a shock as most see it.

I'm sure most of you will have seen that Joshua, after saying he was going to be back in the ring in July, has now said he won't be fighting again until December.

It seemed the worst-kept secret in boxing that his next fight was going to be a Whyte rematch, but surely this rules that out? Why would anyone think it's smart to wait until December just to fight Whyte again? It's hardly a mouth-watering one. Would seem like a waste of a year to wait until then just to smack a faded, chinny Whyte all over the place again.

This could mean that he's Saudi-bound for this December fight, I guess, which would presumably mean a big money and genuinely interesting one. Hard to understand why there'd be such a delay in getting back in there if he was fighting another Franklin or Whyte type.

There have been whisperings of a match-up with Wilder and Hearn has been uncharacteristically mute by his terms, not even supplying any hints but instead is saying that nothing is on the things to do list.

That could chime with a Saudi date that’s been softballed with Wilder”s team. I suspect Joshua would take the fight in a heartbeat.Let’s face it , he’s not going to learn owt with another easy fight and why would he want to take the Joyce match-up which is a nightmare for him on the risk/reward ratio.
Wilder still has a point to prove and he surely fancies his chances. But, naturally, file under *believe it when we see it*!

When Wilder knocks him out....will that be it for Joshua?

Sgt_Pooly wrote:When Wilder knocks him out....will that be it for Joshua?

I’m sure Hearn will still offer up Joshua to Fury at a 20/80 split.

88Chris05 wrote:I'm sure most of you will have seen that Joshua, after saying he was going to be back in the ring in July, has now said he won't be fighting again until December.

It seemed the worst-kept secret in boxing that his next fight was going to be a Whyte rematch, but surely this rules that out? Why would anyone think it's smart to wait until December just to fight Whyte again? It's hardly a mouth-watering one. Would seem like a waste of a year to wait until then just to smack a faded, chinny Whyte all over the place again.

This could mean that he's Saudi-bound for this December fight, I guess, which would presumably mean a big money and genuinely interesting one. Hard to understand why there'd be such a delay in getting back in there if he was fighting another Franklin or Whyte type.

Hearn was moaning the garbage performance against Franklin was due to inactivity and now he is off for 8 months..

Cashing out written all over this......Guess we can say the 5th best Heavy in the World isn't to be taken seriously anymore...

Well the latest rumour is that the Saudis are putting up huge money for a four-man knockout tournament featuring Fury, Joshua, Usyk and Wilder over the winter to crown a new undisputed Heavyweight king.

Like any boxing fan, I don't really believe it'll happen - but if it did, it would at least help explain why there's been this sudden switch from Joshua and Hearn about when he'll fight again, especially as Joshua alluded to it all being part of a 'bigger picture' or something along those lines.

Can't think they'd want Fury-Wilder or Joshua-Usyk as semi finals to get the ball rolling, given the history, so if by some miracle this does come to fruition, do we want the semi finals to be Fury-Joshua and Usyk-Wilder, or Fury-Usyk and Joshua-Wilder? I'd personally prefer the second option.

Like I said, though. Likely just talk.

It would have to be Fury/Joshua and Usyk/Wilder, in such a scenario you wouldn't want an undisputed champion crowned in the first fight.

Soul Requiem wrote:It would have to be Fury/Joshua and Usyk/Wilder, in such a scenario you wouldn't want an undisputed champion crowned in the first fight.

Only realistic option....if one semi is Fury/Usyk, the other two aren't bringing much to the table. Knowing Fury, it could be possible he'd retire after beating Usyk in the semi anyway.

Usyk v Wilder & Fury v Joshua....would be 2 great match ups. What would be a realistic timescale for this? Consecutive weekends for the semis and then the final?

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:It would have to be Fury/Joshua and Usyk/Wilder, in such a scenario you wouldn't want an undisputed champion crowned in the first fight.

Only realistic option....if one semi is Fury/Usyk, the other two aren't bringing much to the table. Knowing Fury, it could be possible he'd retire after beating Usyk in the semi anyway.

Usyk v Fury & Fury v Joshua....would be 2 great match ups. What would be a realistic timescale for this? Consecutive weekends for the semis and then the final?

Depending on the nature of the fights themselves you'd be looking at a 6 month gap between the semis and then the final, none of the four are spring chickens now so the likelihood of injuries delaying that is high.

Quarters - top half of draw
Usyk vs warm-up (Ruiz Jr)
Wilder vs Joyce

Quarters - Bottom half of draw
Fury vs warm-up (Filip Hrgović)
AJ vs Jared Anderson

No name Bertie wrote:Quarters - top half of draw
Usyk vs warm-up (Ruiz Jr)
Wilder vs Joyce

Quarters - Bottom half of draw
Fury vs warm-up (Filip Hrgović)
AJ vs Jared Anderson

Never gonna happen.

Joyce is WBO mandatory. So he fight Usyk or he gets a shot at Fury.
Wilder is WBC and WBA #1 why would he fight Joyce?

I am not sure the four fighter competition will work - I think it needs expanding, I think Joyce needs to be in there, and the rest is just reasonable fillers.  Money will make it work - give them a share in one of those Saudi Oil Wells. Make the non-belt holders work a little more for their title shot

No name Bertie wrote:I am not sure the four fighter competition will work - I think it needs expanding, I think Joyce needs to be in there, and the rest is just reasonable fillers.  Money will make it work - give them a share in one of those Saudi Oil Wells.  Make the non-belt holders work a little more for their title shot

Rumours going around that the reason they are talikng about Saudi in 8 months may be because of a failed test......Sure they are just rumours but he has got a great physique....

I've heard the speculation and it is up to Eddie Hearn and maybe AJ to quash it. Immediately after the fight everyone in AJ's camp agreed that AJ will be fighting in summer and then suddenly there was some sort of social media text saying he won't be fighting until December and Eddie Hearn unwilling to talk about it. A new trainer a new camp a different diet in Texas it certainly seems possible that AJ failed a test shortly before or after the fight, and now there is silence while challenges or whatever are being made in private. Recently we have had Conor Benn, Amir Khan and now maybe AJ. Currently all speculation but Eddie Hearn needs cornering.

Joshua’s test was clean for the franklin fight. As per VADA

No name Bertie wrote:Quarters - top half of draw
Usyk vs warm-up (Ruiz Jr)
Wilder vs Joyce

Quarters - Bottom half of draw
Fury vs warm-up (Filip Hrgović)
AJ vs Jared Anderson

We can but dream, eh!?

Got to hand it to Sauerland and Schaefer for the WBSS tournaments they put on from 2018 to 2020. The Bantamweight and, in particular, the first Cruiserweight tournaments were superb and produced some tremendous fights (Donaire-Inoue I, Briedis-Usyk and Dorticos-Gassiev being the pick of the bunch).

Unfortunately, a $25 million kitty with the tournament winner bagging $10 million, as was the case in the WBSS, wouldn't be lucrative enough for the Heavyweight lot. Someone would have to be stumping up at least four times that just to get their names on the contract. But for the kind of divisions the WBSS targeted, that was fantastic money and I'm not surprised they managed to get all four of the Cruiserweight titlists of the day signed up.

Would love for them to put another couple of those tournaments together. Funnily enough, another one at 140 would be even better now, albeit can't see Taylor being too keen to run the gauntlet again if he stays at Light-Welter. The WBSS was one of the few exciting and successful things we've had in the sport in the last half-decade.

Massive swelling has seen Joyce lose to Zhang. Is there anywhere for Joyce to go from here?

Joyce was absolutely useless there. Has he ever seen a southpaw in his life? Straight left couldn't miss. Said it after the Parker fight - all well and good having a great chin (albeit he was wobbled a couple of times here) but you can't rely on just walking through everyone you face.

Boxed horribly from the off. But Zhang was impressive.

A judge had Joyce winning that fight

Joyce was schooled by Zhang, excellent performance by the Chinese man.
Joyce’s self proclaimed notion of being some sort of ‘boogeyman’ is shattered.

catchweight wrote:A judge had Joyce winning that fight

Absolutely ludicrous, isn't it?

You know it's one-sided, and that the other guy is dominating, when even Richie Woodhall of all people has to give Zhang a clean sweep of the first four rounds.

Bunce playing the clown and saying he had it even after four rounds, as well. For all his years in the business, he evidently still doesn't know the scoring criteria or what an effective, legal and scoring punch is.

I don't think there's any need to re-evaluate Joyce or be too shocked on the back of this, really. Everyone already knew (or should have known) his obvious limitations which would almost certainly see him come a cropper long before this fight. He's got some good things going for him, but he's also got no defence, is very slow (even for a Heavy) and can take a while to warm into fights.

I thought Joyce looked quite promising a few months ago when he disposed of Parker so easily. But maybe Parker is worse than I thought, or Joyce isn't as promising as I thought. One thing's for sure Joyce had no answer to the many punches he took to the face, and I can't see him progressing much further at his age.

Everything remains as before except that Zhilei Zhang is much better than many had given him credit for.  Many thought he should have got the decision against Filip Hrgović, but apart from fighting Hrgović he hadn't really fought a highly rated boxer before so it was difficult to judge him.  

However some did think he could beat Joe Joyce and he did because Joyce's defense is poor and Zhang had the power and the accuracy to damage him before he was expected to slow down / gas out. The fight was stopped because Joyce's right eye closed up.   Zhang also wobbled Joyce a few times especially in the first round and busted Joyce's nose.   If Joyce hadn't have received such damage to his eye he would have likely outworked Zhang in the later rounds to win but it wasn't to be.  

Otto Wallin could have got a stoppage win over Tyson Fury but the ref allowed the fight to continue and Fury's cut guy managed to do enough to stem the flow.

88Chris05 wrote:Joyce was absolutely useless there. Has he ever seen a southpaw in his life? Straight left couldn't miss. Said it after the Parker fight - all well and good having a great chin (albeit he was wobbled a couple of times here) but you can't rely on just walking through everyone you face.

Boxed horribly from the off. But Zhang was impressive.

There can't be that many 6'6 Southpaws you can train against in the world. Excluding Wilder in the 12th of their first fight, no one has had Tyson Fury in more danger of actually losing a fight than Otto Wallin, and all he has going for him is that he's a gigantic Southpaw.

I have no idea what Joyce's fight plan was (if he had any). It looked like his plan was "I can take a punch and can hit really hard" so will just hang around until I KO you. Zhang would be anhiliated by any decent Heavy who just made him miss a bit. He has no engine so the fight plan has to be to keep out of range for the first two rounds. Joyce ate 15 to 20 big punches early on for no apparent reason and paid the price. They should rematch and Joyce need to humble himself and bring some tactics to the table next time.

I have no idea what Joyce's fight plan was (if he had any). It looked like his plan was "I can take a punch and can hit really hard" so will just hang around until I KO you.  Zhang would be anhiliated by any decent Heavy who just made him miss a bit.  He has no engine so the fight plan has to be to keep out of range for the first two rounds. Joyce ate 15 to 20 big punches early on for no apparent reason and paid the price.  They should rematch and Joyce need to humble himself and bring some tactics to the table next time.

Fighters causing defeats / difficulties to British HW boxers

Name.................. Height .... Reach .... Stance ............. Wt When Fighting JJ/AJ/TF
Zhilei Zhang.......... 6' 6" ...... 78" ....... Southpaw ......... 278 lb
Otto Wallin............ 6' 5.5" .... 78" ...... Southpaw ......... 236 lb
Alexander Usyk...... 6' 3" ...... 78" ....... Southpaw ......... 221 / 221 lb
Steve Cunningham. 6' 3" ....... 82" ...... Orthodox .......... 210 lb
Andy Ruiz Jr........... 6' 2" ...... 72" ....... Orthodox .......... 268 / 284 lb

With Tyson Fury he has shown an ability to change the fight plan inside the ring when facing difficulties to get the win, although with Wallin the fight could have been stopped.

Joyce wants an interim bout before a Zhang rematch…
Zhang could the up losing then what would be the point of said rematch?

Inventing Johnson Klute wrote:I have no idea what Joyce's fight plan was (if he had any). It looked like his plan was "I can take a punch and can hit really hard" so will just hang around until I KO you.  Zhang would be anhiliated by any decent Heavy who just made him miss a bit.  He has no engine so the fight plan has to be to keep out of range for the first two rounds. Joyce ate 15 to 20 big punches early on for no apparent reason and paid the price.  They should rematch and Joyce need to humble himself and bring some tactics to the table next time.

Then there was Johnny Two-Times, he said everything twice he said everything twice.

Joyce can’t cut it at the very top level can he? I would still give him a shout against AJ but he’s not got a boxing brain. I hate to say this as I was a big supporter, but Usyk or Fury would ridicule him. But I guess there will still be big money fights out there. If DuBois manages to land a lucky sledgehammer against Usyk actually, that DuBois fight would suddenly be selling out Wembley.

I know they say you should never change your prediction at the last minute....But Garcia points tonight!

Shocked at how close the Cordina fight was. He managed the fight beautifully and for me he had won by 3 at least.

116-111 for Rakhimov, Cordina won at least 6 rounds of that fight easily which combined with the knockdown should have made it comfortable. Every single fight seems to have at one shocking scorecard.

88Chris05 wrote:I know they say you should never change your prediction at the last minute....But Garcia points tonight!

And this is why they say that. Stick to your guns, kids, your first prediction is usually your best!

Disappointing performance from Garcia. Seemed spooked by the knockdown (he was having a good second round before that point) and spent much of the remainder not really committing to his punches, despite having success when he did throw the right. Fought quite tight and upright again, and then in my opinion quit when the going got really tough.

Should never get too hysterical over one defeat as we sometimes do, but the manner in which he boxed and checked out here will lead to hype job accusations. Just didn't step up the moment at all.

On the other hand, Davis did show some new creases to his game and boxed more effectively than I imagined. Garcia was able to hit him with very few left hooks and there was more feinting and angles than you usually see with him. After a shaky first couple of minutes in round two he never really looked too bothered by anything Garcia was doing.

Maybe this will convince his team to let him off the leash and put him in there with more prime guys in and around his proper weight.

I was disappointed as this fight was getting billed as a potential classic. I watched Hagler/ Leonard in the wee hours and found the contrast beteeen fights something of a chasm. The commentators really don’t know when to calm it.
Noticed the Charlo brothers making an appearance and being acknowledged as if they were legit superstars…funny old world.

The hype around the fight didn't seem justified to me; neither Davis nor Garcia are proven at the highest level and the weight stipulations are ridiculous. There have been genuine superfights at lightweight and light welterweight in recent years but they've tended to happen between non Americans so they get ignored.

From the highlights reel only: at that weight it looked like Gervonta Davis was too compact, too strong, too smart (ring IQ) for Ryan Garcia.  Early in the fight he started to grapple Garcia when Garcia started finding his range and pressing Davis.  Then Davis started to duck under Garcia's punches bringing himself very close to Garcia, then he timed Garcia - catching him flush on the chin in the second round for the first knock down, then flush to the abdomen / liver to end the fight in the seventh round.  It looked easy for Davis once he worked out how to handle Garcia about mid-way through the second round.

Garcia was nothing more than a glorified hype job.
Davis is just a stat padder. Still no noteworthy wins.
Would give Davis zero chance against Haney or Stevenson.

Got to hand it to Oscar, Garcia total hype job. Hopefully he never gets a big fight again, not that he’s a bad kid or anything. Can’t believe how gullible American fight fans have become. Is it social media? And will we ever see Davis in a real fight? Don’t hold your breath. American boxing

Jeff Navarro wrote:Garcia was nothing more than a glorified hype job.
Davis is just a stat padder. Still no noteworthy wins.
Would give Davis zero chance against Haney or Stevenson.

Davis isn't a plodder...He is a crafty Southpaw and Garcia isn't as bad as he looked. The weight loss didn't help but he is still a good fighter.

Problem is he doesn't move his head enough for a guy that doesn't use his jab enough.

Not the first guy to struggle with a southpaw....Ask Ricky.

Recently Joe Joyce and AJ struggled with southpaws and Trussman highlights Ricky getting sparked out by Manny in the second round.

The Judges scoring for the Davis - Garcia fight has caused some outcry among some: for the second round two judges had it 10-9 to Davis, and one had it 10-10.  The second round was when Garcia had Davis on the run, Davis then grappled to avoid getting hit, then ducked and timed, then ducked and landed a left uppercut / hook to Garcia's chin as Garcia punched and missed, catching Garcia flush for a clear knockdown.

Garcia is still only 24 years of age so has time to grow and mature as a fighter. There are some indications that he might suffer from mental health issues.

No name Bertie wrote:Recently Joe Joyce and AJ struggled with southpaws and Trussman highlights Ricky getting sparked out by Manny in the second round.

The Judges scoring for the Davis - Garcia fight has caused some outcry among some: for the second round two judges had it 10-9 to Davis, and one had it 10-10.  The second round was when Garcia had Davis on the run, Davis then grappled to avoid getting hit, then ducked and timed, then ducked and landed a left uppercut / hook to Garcia's chin as Garcia punched and missed, catching Garcia flush for a clear knockdown.  

Garcia is still only 24 years of age so has time to grow and mature as a fighter.   There are some indications that he might suffer from mental health issues.

I hate the automatice 10-8 score for a knockdown BUT that's what we've got at the moment and them scores are dodgy as hell

I see non tiltle journeymen Smith and Eubank 2 are PPV........Even though the first fight was a damp squib....

Think I will pass..

WBC announced that Bivol cannot fight for their 175lbs title as he’s Russian.
Breaking news Beterbiev is also Russian…

So it’s Canelo vs Ryder this weekend. No hype at all…
For reasons only in my own head, I fancy the Brit to land the upset…

Canelo Alvarez beat John Ryder by unanimous decision. Alvarez dropped Ryder in the fifth, but the Londoner showed great courage to go the distant.

Scorecards: 118-109, 118-109 and 120-107. The last scorecard is a joke, what fight was the judge watching if he gave Alvarez every round?

Alvarez’s stamina, just like against GGG in the third fight, diminishes greatly in the last third of the fight.

Alvarez says Bivol at 175 or Benavidez at 168. Alvarez has no hope at all against Bivol.

Another fight that could have got close if it was 15 rounds. Shame the stamina aspect of the sport is denied with these twelve rounders. Shifts in momentum is what does make for more exciting fights. Ryder was just starting to bubble up. That could have got really tight for Canelo

Saw the Buatsi fight and would love to know how he won all 10 rounds on one card...

As for Ryder.....Well he was well beaten and we don't fight 15 rounds anymore so if you don't like Canelo who is the one fighter who will fight anybody and does.....Guess it is just..

TOUGH !!