Yet another mass shooting in America

by mountain man Mon 10 Apr 2023, 4:11 pm

First topic message reminder :

The USA, home of the free and land of the deranged mass shooter.

No doubt usual vigils, well meaning words, heart felt condolences etc given out but ultimately naff all be done to alleviate the scourge of gun crime.
What's the NRA line, only way to deal with this is to arm more people?

Yep that's really working out fine and dandy....

by Samo Fri 12 May 2023, 6:57 am

They could take a % of the the astronomical defense budget and start a fairly generous buy-back program. Even the run of the mill “bad guys” would give their guns in if there was a decent financial reward.

by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 12 May 2023, 2:17 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:When it comes to mass shootings in the US there is really before and after Columbine.....Certainly been an exacerbation since probably the most notorious massacre back in 1999....Especially in the last few years....

So what's changed ??? Perhaps a look at how Social media is affecting our kids and Society...

When I was a kid we played Baseball....Had Boxing gyms....Weightlifting gyms....Football...Soccer etc where we learned to communicate and develop.....Healthy bodies...Healthy minds and we didn't feel alienated.....

These days and I've seen it first hand...kids like to play games and do facebook..TikTok etc and not only does it restrict development but if you are getting a rough ride at College or School....Nasty types can find you at home as well...

Yes guns are a problem but are they really the major problem....Not sure.
Just out of interest, what were the rules on assault rifle etc ownership at the point you were a kid? Easier to own a firearm now? Access to more semi-automatic weapons? Did they allow bump stocks then? I don't know, but would be good to know that part of the equation is comparable to situation now...

Don't recall there being any or much legislation until someone went crazy in a Californian school killing kids and teachers in the late 80s just before I left Roxbury and the push for change came then although Bush Sr ignored the calls.......Clinton brought in a law banning certain types of Assault weapons those with high capacity but all it did short term was speed up production and eventually cheapen the prices because they knew the ban was coming........The bill expired under Bush and politicians have fought tooth and nail to not renew it since....
Well, whatever the ins and outs of the situation, it's a problem that no-one seems willing (which is the worst part of this) or able to solve. One thing's for sure, it's been happening for a while (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States) and from well before Columbine.

In no way am I looking to come across as mordacious or anything....But....Why don't you solve it ??? you seem to intimate that possible remedies are out there...

You going to ask bad people to hand their weapons over if you say please ???...Worth a go I suppose..

Horse has bolted..... I remarked earlier that the Founding Fathers probably saw the Constitution as a document to be updated with the times..... and that it wasn't to be cast in stone and also that they would be horrified at the way things have gone...

But good intentions and all that....
OK. Just let the massacre of the innocents continue because no-one has a clue and/or the willpower? Give me strength. A solution? US politicians grow some (the males, that is; other metaphors available for others) and legislate to reduce the legality of owning, for example, AR-15-type assault rifles etc. You know, one of the worst things Americans have done in their country is make the word 'socialist' a swear word. It is not always the needs of the one over the many and the many can **** off. That's what a society implies, but I guess America (and too many humans in general) hasn't got there yet. Amazingly, living in a society means one has responsibilities to those around one. If people could be trusted/were mentally adult enough to pack any firearm they could afford w/o their children blowing themselves to buggery through irresponsible storage etc, or idiots murdering thousands, so be it. I put it to you that America has nicely demonstrated it isn't ready for that responsibility and, if anything, is farther away from it now that it was, say, 50 years ago. The incredible thing is that despite this sort of rubbish, America has been the success it has.

Arguing that because the bad guys won't hand over weapons, that's a good reason for law abiding citizens to tool up w/ near military grade kit is absurd - that's what you have the police, SWAT etc for. Suggest that most criminals don't want a gun fight, for all they might be armed - they want swag. If one was surprised by a bad guy wielding a gun, he/she already has it pointed at you - who do you think you are? Wyatt Earp or Billy the Kid? Just give them the cash and have insurance as the alternative isn't worth it.
Many of these massacres aren't performed by 'bad guys' with a criminal record - it's loony tunes and/or the disaffected w/o a previous record. I get that everyone thinks personal freedom is the be all and end all, and that gun ownership has been decreed to embody that (probably by the NRA; I disagree, but I'm happy enough w/ my d**k and too old now to care anyway), so I doubt you'll be able to remove them all, but FFS, no-one needs an assault rifle or ridiculous high-capacity magazines, bump stocks etc etc. Do something concrete because "thoughts and prayers" sure as **** don't cut it and, in all honesty, are an insult to those killed or the families etc thereof.

To be honest, I could imagine if I was American and that my family/child/wife etc was killed by some nutter because the spineless NRA shills won't do anything about gun ownership, I might consider my life done with anyway and specifically go after any Congressman etc I could get my sights on. How long before that actually happens and some distraught individual attempts something like that? Might at least actually make those spineless politicians have a serious think...

Just a rant with no solutions.......

Socialism is a swear word over here too........Last I heard a guy that wanted to....Help the Public sector....Nationalise the railways...Fight for equality and....Push green issues was an ANTISEMITE....Funnily enough he wasn't when he was twenty points behind..

So get off your high horse.....

Bad people burglar houses and destroy communities with guns in America....So good people want to protect their Families......Kind of makes sense when you think about it..

Yes there have been too many school shootings but we do have 300 million more people......

I hate guns.....But the second Amendment was brought in with all the right intentions......To stop tyranny and to keep the Brits out....

The Tyranny bit was much more of a threat... Cool

by **superflyweight** Fri 12 May 2023, 3:20 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:When it comes to mass shootings in the US there is really before and after Columbine.....Certainly been an exacerbation since probably the most notorious massacre back in 1999....Especially in the last few years....

So what's changed ??? Perhaps a look at how Social media is affecting our kids and Society...

When I was a kid we played Baseball....Had Boxing gyms....Weightlifting gyms....Football...Soccer etc where we learned to communicate and develop.....Healthy bodies...Healthy minds and we didn't feel alienated.....

These days and I've seen it first hand...kids like to play games and do facebook..TikTok etc and not only does it restrict development but if you are getting a rough ride at College or School....Nasty types can find you at home as well...

Yes guns are a problem but are they really the major problem....Not sure.
Just out of interest, what were the rules on assault rifle etc ownership at the point you were a kid? Easier to own a firearm now? Access to more semi-automatic weapons? Did they allow bump stocks then? I don't know, but would be good to know that part of the equation is comparable to situation now...

Don't recall there being any or much legislation until someone went crazy in a Californian school killing kids and teachers in the late 80s just before I left Roxbury and the push for change came then although Bush Sr ignored the calls.......Clinton brought in a law banning certain types of Assault weapons those with high capacity but all it did short term was speed up production and eventually cheapen the prices because they knew the ban was coming........The bill expired under Bush and politicians have fought tooth and nail to not renew it since....
Well, whatever the ins and outs of the situation, it's a problem that no-one seems willing (which is the worst part of this) or able to solve. One thing's for sure, it's been happening for a while (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States) and from well before Columbine.

In no way am I looking to come across as mordacious or anything....But....Why don't you solve it ??? you seem to intimate that possible remedies are out there...

You going to ask bad people to hand their weapons over if you say please ???...Worth a go I suppose..

Horse has bolted..... I remarked earlier that the Founding Fathers probably saw the Constitution as a document to be updated with the times..... and that it wasn't to be cast in stone and also that they would be horrified at the way things have gone...

But good intentions and all that....
OK. Just let the massacre of the innocents continue because no-one has a clue and/or the willpower? Give me strength. A solution? US politicians grow some (the males, that is; other metaphors available for others) and legislate to reduce the legality of owning, for example, AR-15-type assault rifles etc. You know, one of the worst things Americans have done in their country is make the word 'socialist' a swear word. It is not always the needs of the one over the many and the many can **** off. That's what a society implies, but I guess America (and too many humans in general) hasn't got there yet. Amazingly, living in a society means one has responsibilities to those around one. If people could be trusted/were mentally adult enough to pack any firearm they could afford w/o their children blowing themselves to buggery through irresponsible storage etc, or idiots murdering thousands, so be it. I put it to you that America has nicely demonstrated it isn't ready for that responsibility and, if anything, is farther away from it now that it was, say, 50 years ago. The incredible thing is that despite this sort of rubbish, America has been the success it has.

Arguing that because the bad guys won't hand over weapons, that's a good reason for law abiding citizens to tool up w/ near military grade kit is absurd - that's what you have the police, SWAT etc for. Suggest that most criminals don't want a gun fight, for all they might be armed - they want swag. If one was surprised by a bad guy wielding a gun, he/she already has it pointed at you - who do you think you are? Wyatt Earp or Billy the Kid? Just give them the cash and have insurance as the alternative isn't worth it.
Many of these massacres aren't performed by 'bad guys' with a criminal record - it's loony tunes and/or the disaffected w/o a previous record. I get that everyone thinks personal freedom is the be all and end all, and that gun ownership has been decreed to embody that (probably by the NRA; I disagree, but I'm happy enough w/ my d**k and too old now to care anyway), so I doubt you'll be able to remove them all, but FFS, no-one needs an assault rifle or ridiculous high-capacity magazines, bump stocks etc etc. Do something concrete because "thoughts and prayers" sure as **** don't cut it and, in all honesty, are an insult to those killed or the families etc thereof.

To be honest, I could imagine if I was American and that my family/child/wife etc was killed by some nutter because the spineless NRA shills won't do anything about gun ownership, I might consider my life done with anyway and specifically go after any Congressman etc I could get my sights on. How long before that actually happens and some distraught individual attempts something like that? Might at least actually make those spineless politicians have a serious think...

Just a rant with no solutions.......

Socialism is a swear word over here too........Last I heard a guy that wanted to....Help the Public sector....Nationalise the railways...Fight for equality and....Push green issues was an ANTISEMITE....Funnily enough he wasn't when he was twenty points behind..

So get off your high horse.....

Bad people burglar houses and destroy communities with guns in America....So good people want to protect their Families......Kind of makes sense when you think about it..

Yes there have been too many school shootings but we do have 300 million more people......

I hate guns.....But the second Amendment was brought in with all the right intentions......To stop tyranny and to keep the Brits out....

The Tyranny bit was much more of a threat...

Your undying love for Corbyn explains why you're pretty close to being a Putin apologist.

by **navyblueshorts** Fri 12 May 2023, 3:20 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:When it comes to mass shootings in the US there is really before and after Columbine.....Certainly been an exacerbation since probably the most notorious massacre back in 1999....Especially in the last few years....

So what's changed ??? Perhaps a look at how Social media is affecting our kids and Society...

When I was a kid we played Baseball....Had Boxing gyms....Weightlifting gyms....Football...Soccer etc where we learned to communicate and develop.....Healthy bodies...Healthy minds and we didn't feel alienated.....

These days and I've seen it first hand...kids like to play games and do facebook..TikTok etc and not only does it restrict development but if you are getting a rough ride at College or School....Nasty types can find you at home as well...

Yes guns are a problem but are they really the major problem....Not sure.
Just out of interest, what were the rules on assault rifle etc ownership at the point you were a kid? Easier to own a firearm now? Access to more semi-automatic weapons? Did they allow bump stocks then? I don't know, but would be good to know that part of the equation is comparable to situation now...

Don't recall there being any or much legislation until someone went crazy in a Californian school killing kids and teachers in the late 80s just before I left Roxbury and the push for change came then although Bush Sr ignored the calls.......Clinton brought in a law banning certain types of Assault weapons those with high capacity but all it did short term was speed up production and eventually cheapen the prices because they knew the ban was coming........The bill expired under Bush and politicians have fought tooth and nail to not renew it since....
Well, whatever the ins and outs of the situation, it's a problem that no-one seems willing (which is the worst part of this) or able to solve. One thing's for sure, it's been happening for a while (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States) and from well before Columbine.

In no way am I looking to come across as mordacious or anything....But....Why don't you solve it ??? you seem to intimate that possible remedies are out there...

You going to ask bad people to hand their weapons over if you say please ???...Worth a go I suppose..

Horse has bolted..... I remarked earlier that the Founding Fathers probably saw the Constitution as a document to be updated with the times..... and that it wasn't to be cast in stone and also that they would be horrified at the way things have gone...

But good intentions and all that....
OK. Just let the massacre of the innocents continue because no-one has a clue and/or the willpower? Give me strength. A solution? US politicians grow some (the males, that is; other metaphors available for others) and legislate to reduce the legality of owning, for example, AR-15-type assault rifles etc. You know, one of the worst things Americans have done in their country is make the word 'socialist' a swear word. It is not always the needs of the one over the many and the many can **** off. That's what a society implies, but I guess America (and too many humans in general) hasn't got there yet. Amazingly, living in a society means one has responsibilities to those around one. If people could be trusted/were mentally adult enough to pack any firearm they could afford w/o their children blowing themselves to buggery through irresponsible storage etc, or idiots murdering thousands, so be it. I put it to you that America has nicely demonstrated it isn't ready for that responsibility and, if anything, is farther away from it now that it was, say, 50 years ago. The incredible thing is that despite this sort of rubbish, America has been the success it has.

Arguing that because the bad guys won't hand over weapons, that's a good reason for law abiding citizens to tool up w/ near military grade kit is absurd - that's what you have the police, SWAT etc for. Suggest that most criminals don't want a gun fight, for all they might be armed - they want swag. If one was surprised by a bad guy wielding a gun, he/she already has it pointed at you - who do you think you are? Wyatt Earp or Billy the Kid? Just give them the cash and have insurance as the alternative isn't worth it.
Many of these massacres aren't performed by 'bad guys' with a criminal record - it's loony tunes and/or the disaffected w/o a previous record. I get that everyone thinks personal freedom is the be all and end all, and that gun ownership has been decreed to embody that (probably by the NRA; I disagree, but I'm happy enough w/ my d**k and too old now to care anyway), so I doubt you'll be able to remove them all, but FFS, no-one needs an assault rifle or ridiculous high-capacity magazines, bump stocks etc etc. Do something concrete because "thoughts and prayers" sure as **** don't cut it and, in all honesty, are an insult to those killed or the families etc thereof.

To be honest, I could imagine if I was American and that my family/child/wife etc was killed by some nutter because the spineless NRA shills won't do anything about gun ownership, I might consider my life done with anyway and specifically go after any Congressman etc I could get my sights on. How long before that actually happens and some distraught individual attempts something like that? Might at least actually make those spineless politicians have a serious think...

Just a rant with no solutions.......

Socialism is a swear word over here too........Last I heard a guy that wanted to....Help the Public sector....Nationalise the railways...Fight for equality and....Push green issues was an ANTISEMITE....Funnily enough he wasn't when he was twenty points behind..

So get off your high horse.....

Bad people burglar houses and destroy communities with guns in America....So good people want to protect their Families......Kind of makes sense when you think about it..

Yes there have been too many school shootings but we do have 300 million more people......

I hate guns.....But the second Amendment was brought in with all the right intentions......To stop tyranny and to keep the Brits out....

The Tyranny bit was much more of a threat...

Never mind. As for me being on any high horse, I don't really give a 4X what they do over there, or how many die as a result. Let them carry on dying. Rather spend my emotions on dying Ukrainians, Sudanese, Yemenis etc. You keep justifying gun ownership to yourself however makes you comfortable while the deaths keep piling up. You can always "pray", I guess?

You have ~5x the UK population, but strangely an almost infinitely larger number of deaths due to gunshot than the UK does. Wonder what the the correlation is? Not a good stance for you to take thumbsup

.

Just a thought, but if the 2nd Amendment was brought in to stop us tyrannical Britons from grinding you freedom loving Yanks under our heels, strikes me that the Amendment should have long been struck down, don't you? Won't happen though as there're too many needle d**ks in the land of the free.

by Soul Requiem Fri 12 May 2023, 3:23 pm

School mass shootings this century

UK- 0
USA- 68 (four of more dead or injured)

But 300 million more people...

There have also been in total 40 mass shootings within the UK since 1840.

by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 12 May 2023, 3:30 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:School mass shootings this century

UK- 0
USA- 68 (four of more dead or injured)

But 300 million more people...

There have also been in total 40 mass shootings within the UK since 1840.

Not sure that is the gotcha moment you think it is....300m is a lot of people....

by Soul Requiem Fri 12 May 2023, 3:37 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:School mass shootings this century

UK- 0
USA- 68 (four of more dead or injured)

But 300 million more people...

There have also been in total 40 mass shootings within the UK since 1840.

Not sure that is the gotcha moment you think it is....300m is a lot of people....

It's 267 million more people to be precise.

Yes it sums up the situation perfectly, 68 mass shootings in US schools this century, if population was a factor you'd expect the UK to have had around the 13/14 mark not 0.

by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 12 May 2023, 3:47 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:School mass shootings this century

UK- 0
USA- 68 (four of more dead or injured)

But 300 million more people...

There have also been in total 40 mass shootings within the UK since 1840.

Not sure that is the gotcha moment you think it is....300m is a lot of people....

It's 267 million more people to be precise.

Yes it sums up the situation perfectly, 68 mass shootings in US schools this century, if population was a factor you'd expect the UK to have had around the 13/14 mark not 0.

Kind of like saying if two villages have the same amout of people in them.....The percentage of Gay people would be the same..

As we know population comes with variables......

Three mass shootings a year on average compared to none but with 300m more people........Interesting.

by Soul Requiem Fri 12 May 2023, 4:01 pm

The major variable of course being gun control laws.

by lostinwales Fri 12 May 2023, 4:32 pm

Someone pointed out on Twitter that there are other countries with as many guns as the USA. I think the example was Iraq. And yet nowhere else gets the number of school shootings seen in America. The suggestion being that there is something very fundamentally f'ked up with our cousins across the Atlantic.

by **JuliusHMarx** Fri 12 May 2023, 4:39 pm

lostinwales wrote:Someone pointed out on Twitter that there are other countries with as many guns as the USA. I think the example was Iraq. And yet nowhere else gets the number of school shootings seen in America. The suggestion being that there is something very fundamentally f'ked up with our cousins across the Atlantic.

Partly that too many of them ARE cousins!

by Samo Fri 12 May 2023, 5:57 pm

lostinwales wrote:Someone pointed out on Twitter that there are other countries with as many guns as the USA. I think the example was Iraq. And yet nowhere else gets the number of school shootings seen in America. The suggestion being that there is something very fundamentally f'ked up with our cousins across the Atlantic.

Most countries with legal firearm ownership either have more reasonable controls in place, or a culture that isnt based on fear of the "bad guy with a gun" whose going to break into your home and kill your family. Or a combination of both.

by **navyblueshorts** Sat 13 May 2023, 2:41 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:
lostinwales wrote:Someone pointed out on Twitter that there are other countries with as many guns as the USA. I think the example was Iraq. And yet nowhere else gets the number of school shootings seen in America. The suggestion being that there is something very fundamentally f'ked up with our cousins across the Atlantic.

Partly that too many of them ARE cousins!

by Soul Requiem Sat 13 May 2023, 8:11 pm

27 mass shooting in the US this month alone so far, 7 in the UK this century.

300 million more people...

by the-goon2 Mon 15 May 2023, 5:36 pm

Switzerland has a very high % of gun ownership but doesn't have mass shootings.

Maybe it isn't simply the guns....

Also, this naïve belief of making guns "illegal" will suddenly make the shootings stop. How about we make murder illegal? That should stop it. Right? Oh...

But it's doing something. Even if it will cause more problems than it solves.

Most Americans are seeing crime go up, police forces being gutted, criminals being allowed back on the street and cops doing nothing when called. And you think you Americans will give away their guns? No, the opposite, they are seeing that they need to protect themselves, and can't rely on the state.

by **JuliusHMarx** Tue 16 May 2023, 10:45 am

https://impakter.com/why-gun-ownership-switzerland-not-same-us/

by lostinwales Tue 16 May 2023, 12:18 pm

the-goon2 wrote:Switzerland has a very high % of gun ownership but doesn't have mass shootings.

Maybe it isn't simply the guns....

Also, this naïve belief of making guns "illegal" will suddenly make the shootings stop. How about we make murder illegal? That should stop it. Right? Oh...

But it's doing something. Even if it will cause more problems than it solves.

Most Americans are seeing crime go up, police forces being gutted, criminals being allowed back on the street and cops doing nothing when called. And you think you Americans will give away their guns? No, the opposite, they are seeing that they need to protect themselves, and can't rely on the state.

So basically you are saying that there are political forces capitalising on the gun crime issues rather than trying to fix anything. A bit like the manufactured immigration issues here in the UK.

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 16 May 2023, 1:15 pm

The fact Switzerland has 90% of 25-64 year olds with degrees.........Has a lesser divide between rich and poor and only has 8m people compared to 350 million......

May have something to do with it I expect...

by Duty281 Tue 16 May 2023, 3:41 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:The fact Switzerland has 90% of 25-64 year olds with degrees.........Has a lesser divide between rich and poor and only has 8m people compared to 350 million......

May have something to do with it I expect...

Where did you get this one from, Truss? According to the below link, 44% of people in that age category have a university qualification or higher.

https://www.eda.admin.ch/aboutswitzerland/en/home/bildung-wissenschaft/bildung/bildung---fakten-und-zahlen.html

And Switzerland's wealth gap is huge.

by **Galted** Tue 16 May 2023, 3:48 pm

Duty281 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:The fact Switzerland has 90% of 25-64 year olds with degrees.........Has a lesser divide between rich and poor and only has 8m people compared to 350 million......

May have something to do with it I expect...

Where did you get this one from, Truss? According to the below link, 44% of people in that age category have a university qualification or higher.

https://www.eda.admin.ch/aboutswitzerland/en/home/bildung-wissenschaft/bildung/bildung---fakten-und-zahlen.html

And Switzerland's wealth gap is huge.

And the population is closer to 9 million.

by Duty281 Tue 16 May 2023, 3:51 pm

Galted wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:The fact Switzerland has 90% of 25-64 year olds with degrees.........Has a lesser divide between rich and poor and only has 8m people compared to 350 million......

May have something to do with it I expect...

Where did you get this one from, Truss? According to the below link, 44% of people in that age category have a university qualification or higher.

https://www.eda.admin.ch/aboutswitzerland/en/home/bildung-wissenschaft/bildung/bildung---fakten-und-zahlen.html

And Switzerland's wealth gap is huge.

And the population is closer to 9 million.

And the population of the USA is closer to 330 million.

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 16 May 2023, 4:52 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Galted wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:The fact Switzerland has 90% of 25-64 year olds with degrees.........Has a lesser divide between rich and poor and only has 8m people compared to 350 million......

May have something to do with it I expect...

Where did you get this one from, Truss? According to the below link, 44% of people in that age category have a university qualification or higher.

https://www.eda.admin.ch/aboutswitzerland/en/home/bildung-wissenschaft/bildung/bildung---fakten-und-zahlen.html

And Switzerland's wealth gap is huge.

And the population is closer to 9 million.

Is that really a point worth making...

Why is Diane Abbott an antisemite ??

Still waiting......

And the population of the USA is closer to 330 million.

by Duty281 Tue 16 May 2023, 5:14 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Galted wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:The fact Switzerland has 90% of 25-64 year olds with degrees.........Has a lesser divide between rich and poor and only has 8m people compared to 350 million......

May have something to do with it I expect...

Where did you get this one from, Truss? According to the below link, 44% of people in that age category have a university qualification or higher.

https://www.eda.admin.ch/aboutswitzerland/en/home/bildung-wissenschaft/bildung/bildung---fakten-und-zahlen.html

And Switzerland's wealth gap is huge.

And the population is closer to 9 million.

Is that really a point worth making...

Why is Diane Abbott an antisemite ??

Still waiting......

And the population of the USA is closer to 330 million.

Has the news bypassed you, Truss? She has made anti-semitic comments. She is an anti-semite and a racist in other areas, also.

Your continual defence of racists is rather troubling.

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 16 May 2023, 6:28 pm

Duty281 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Galted wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:The fact Switzerland has 90% of 25-64 year olds with degrees.........Has a lesser divide between rich and poor and only has 8m people compared to 350 million......

May have something to do with it I expect...

Where did you get this one from, Truss? According to the below link, 44% of people in that age category have a university qualification or higher.

https://www.eda.admin.ch/aboutswitzerland/en/home/bildung-wissenschaft/bildung/bildung---fakten-und-zahlen.html

And Switzerland's wealth gap is huge.

And the population is closer to 9 million.

Is that really a point worth making...

Why is Diane Abbott an antisemite ??

Still waiting......

And the population of the USA is closer to 330 million.

Has the news bypassed you, Truss? She has made anti-semitic comments. She is an anti-semite and a racist in other areas, also.

Your continual defence of racists is rather troubling.

You don't know what Antisemitism is do you ???....Look up the definition and then tell me what she said that was antisemetic..

For a truthseeker with integrity like yourself who would never think of smearing anyone from the left... it shouldn't be difficult... thumbsup

by Duty281 Tue 16 May 2023, 7:09 pm

'For a truthseeker with integrity like yourself' - if by this remark you mean someone who takes care to validate the information they post, and doesn't post lies or make-up polling data (as you do), then yes, I suppose I am, although the vast majority of posters on here do this anyway.

And I do know what anti-Semitism is, thank you. Abbott's comments were almost universally condemned as anti-Semitic, so don't take my word for it if you don't wish to.

by alfie Wed 17 May 2023, 1:30 am

the-goon2 wrote:Switzerland has a very high % of gun ownership but doesn't have mass shootings.

Maybe it isn't simply the guns....

Also, this naïve belief of making guns "illegal" will suddenly make the shootings stop. How about we make murder illegal? That should stop it. Right? Oh...

But it's doing something. Even if it will cause more problems than it solves.

Most Americans are seeing crime go up, police forces being gutted, criminals being allowed back on the street and cops doing nothing when called. And you think you Americans will give away their guns? No, the opposite, they are seeing that they need to protect themselves, and can't rely on the state.

Taking these one at a time :

No , it isn't "simply the guns". It is the widespread mentality that goes with their mythical status. Removing a lot of guns won't make everything perfect overnight : but it might make a start towards changing that dangerous cultural feature.

Not sure how , for example , a blanket ban on assault rifles could cause "more problems" ? Except for the profits of gun shop owners perhaps...

As for that rubbish about self protection I think that fallacy has been demolished already on this thread. But to add : in just the last couple of weeks we have seen four instances of totally innocent people being shot by idiots just because they felt "threatened" (for no good reason) and had firearms handy ; but unless the news has been scandalously suppressed , I have yet to hear of any case where a Good Citizen foiled an attempt at violent crime by exercising his talents as a (defensive) gunslinger. I suspect such a Wild West good story doesn't actually happen very often. And maybe if the cops had less reason to worry that anyone they meet might be armed and looking for an excuse to open fire they might end up doing a better job of protecting the innocent ?

Meanwhile suicide by firearm continues to be a regular occurrence ; deranged individuals keep shooting up schools or places of former employment when off their meds ; and simple disagreements between neighbours or motorists are apt to escalate into potentially fatal gunfights.

But hey , the sacred Second Amendment still rules and The People keep their Rights ...

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 17 May 2023, 11:31 am

Duty281 wrote:'For a truthseeker with integrity like yourself' - if by this remark you mean someone who takes care to validate the information they post, and doesn't post lies or make-up polling data (as you do), then yes, I suppose I am, although the vast majority of posters on here do this anyway.

And I do know what anti-Semitism is, thank you. Abbott's comments were almost universally condemned as anti-Semitic, so don't take my word for it if you don't wish to.

What did she say that was Antisemetic ????......Come on buddy boy.

by Duty281 Wed 17 May 2023, 1:08 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:'For a truthseeker with integrity like yourself' - if by this remark you mean someone who takes care to validate the information they post, and doesn't post lies or make-up polling data (as you do), then yes, I suppose I am, although the vast majority of posters on here do this anyway.

And I do know what anti-Semitism is, thank you. Abbott's comments were almost universally condemned as anti-Semitic, so don't take my word for it if you don't wish to.

What did she say that was Antisemetic ????......Come on buddy boy.

Anti-Semitic*

I'm unsure why you can't find this out yourself, but here is the link and comments contained within: https://news.sky.com/story/diane-abbott-accused-of-hateful-antisemitism-after-suggesting-jews-do-not-face-racism-12864141

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 17 May 2023, 2:01 pm

Duty281 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:'For a truthseeker with integrity like yourself' - if by this remark you mean someone who takes care to validate the information they post, and doesn't post lies or make-up polling data (as you do), then yes, I suppose I am, although the vast majority of posters on here do this anyway.

And I do know what anti-Semitism is, thank you. Abbott's comments were almost universally condemned as anti-Semitic, so don't take my word for it if you don't wish to.

What did she say that was Antisemetic ????......Come on buddy boy.

Anti-Semitic*

I'm unsure why you can't find this out yourself, but here is the link and comments contained within: https://news.sky.com/story/diane-abbott-accused-of-hateful-antisemitism-after-suggesting-jews-do-not-face-racism-12864141

Bless you.....

Let me help you out.......Anti semitism by definition is a hostility or prejudice against Jews.......Diane Abbott basically said she sees hostility against blacks as Racism and hostility against Jews and The travelling Community etc as Prejudice.....Never did she belittle anti Jewish hate.

But you hate the left and are ignorant enough to believe bad faith actors with vested interests.....

BTW...Spell checking pedanticism is no substitute for lack of argument....Buddy Boy.

by Duty281 Wed 17 May 2023, 2:42 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:'For a truthseeker with integrity like yourself' - if by this remark you mean someone who takes care to validate the information they post, and doesn't post lies or make-up polling data (as you do), then yes, I suppose I am, although the vast majority of posters on here do this anyway.

And I do know what anti-Semitism is, thank you. Abbott's comments were almost universally condemned as anti-Semitic, so don't take my word for it if you don't wish to.

What did she say that was Antisemetic ????......Come on buddy boy.

Anti-Semitic*

I'm unsure why you can't find this out yourself, but here is the link and comments contained within: https://news.sky.com/story/diane-abbott-accused-of-hateful-antisemitism-after-suggesting-jews-do-not-face-racism-12864141

Bless you.....

Let me help you out.......Anti semitism by definition is a hostility or prejudice against Jews.......Diane Abbott basically said she sees hostility against blacks as Racism and hostility against Jews and The travelling Community etc as Prejudice.....Never did she belittle anti Jewish hate.

But you hate the left and are ignorant enough to believe bad faith actors with vested interests.....

BTW...Spell checking pedanticism is no substitute for lack of argument....Buddy Boy.

Please don't help me out, Truss, I can do without a deluge of misinformation and invented polling data.

Of course Diane Abbott belittled anti-Jewish hate, by saying they don't suffer from racism, when they undoubtedly do, and she bizarrely compared Jews (a persecuted people throughout history, 6 million of whom were murdered just 80 years ago) to the prejudice against redheads, which is an insulting and disgusting comparison. But you have a history of defending anti-Semites, and we probably all know the reason why.

I don't hate the left, this is an invention of yours, I merely disagree with it in parts.

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 17 May 2023, 6:03 pm

Duty281 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:'For a truthseeker with integrity like yourself' - if by this remark you mean someone who takes care to validate the information they post, and doesn't post lies or make-up polling data (as you do), then yes, I suppose I am, although the vast majority of posters on here do this anyway.

And I do know what anti-Semitism is, thank you. Abbott's comments were almost universally condemned as anti-Semitic, so don't take my word for it if you don't wish to.

What did she say that was Antisemetic ????......Come on buddy boy.

Anti-Semitic*

I'm unsure why you can't find this out yourself, but here is the link and comments contained within: https://news.sky.com/story/diane-abbott-accused-of-hateful-antisemitism-after-suggesting-jews-do-not-face-racism-12864141

Bless you.....

Let me help you out.......Anti semitism by definition is a hostility or prejudice against Jews.......Diane Abbott basically said she sees hostility against blacks as Racism and hostility against Jews and The travelling Community etc as Prejudice.....Never did she belittle anti Jewish hate.

But you hate the left and are ignorant enough to believe bad faith actors with vested interests.....

BTW...Spell checking pedanticism is no substitute for lack of argument....Buddy Boy.

Please don't help me out, Truss, I can do without a deluge of misinformation and invented polling data.

Of course Diane Abbott belittled anti-Jewish hate

That isn't Anti semitism and anyway what she said didn't belittle Anti-Jewish hate......She just looks at anti-black hostility as Racism and anti-Jewish hostility as Prejudice....

I think she is wrong but it isn't Antisemitism... Cool

by **Pr4wn** Wed 17 May 2023, 6:04 pm

Just checking, Duty, but was that a veiled accusation that Truss is an anti-Semite?

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 17 May 2023, 6:14 pm

Pr4wn wrote:Just checking, Duty, but was that a veiled accusation that Truss is an anti-Semite?

If it was he'd tell you to go and find out for yourself.......Proving statements isn't his thing...

by Duty281 Wed 17 May 2023, 6:45 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:'For a truthseeker with integrity like yourself' - if by this remark you mean someone who takes care to validate the information they post, and doesn't post lies or make-up polling data (as you do), then yes, I suppose I am, although the vast majority of posters on here do this anyway.

And I do know what anti-Semitism is, thank you. Abbott's comments were almost universally condemned as anti-Semitic, so don't take my word for it if you don't wish to.

What did she say that was Antisemetic ????......Come on buddy boy.

Anti-Semitic*

I'm unsure why you can't find this out yourself, but here is the link and comments contained within: https://news.sky.com/story/diane-abbott-accused-of-hateful-antisemitism-after-suggesting-jews-do-not-face-racism-12864141

Bless you.....

Let me help you out.......Anti semitism by definition is a hostility or prejudice against Jews.......Diane Abbott basically said she sees hostility against blacks as Racism and hostility against Jews and The travelling Community etc as Prejudice.....Never did she belittle anti Jewish hate.

But you hate the left and are ignorant enough to believe bad faith actors with vested interests.....

BTW...Spell checking pedanticism is no substitute for lack of argument....Buddy Boy.

Please don't help me out, Truss, I can do without a deluge of misinformation and invented polling data.

Of course Diane Abbott belittled anti-Jewish hate

That isn't Anti semitism and anyway what she said didn't belittle Anti-Jewish hate......She just looks at anti-black hostility as Racism and anti-Jewish hostility as Prejudice....

I think she is wrong but it isn't Antisemitism...

That is textbook anti-Semitism. But unsurprisingly you choose to ignore this.

by Duty281 Wed 17 May 2023, 6:48 pm

Pr4wn wrote:Just checking, Duty, but was that a veiled accusation that Truss is an anti-Semite?

If he wants to keep defending anti-Semites, and blatantly anti-Semitic statements, I think we can all deduce the reason why.

by Duty281 Wed 17 May 2023, 6:49 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Just checking, Duty, but was that a veiled accusation that Truss is an anti-Semite?

If it was he'd tell you to go and find out for yourself.......Proving statements isn't his thing...

No, Truss, I back up what I say with reason and evidence (where required). You post continual misinformation, make-up polling data and defend racists.

by **Galted** Wed 17 May 2023, 7:01 pm

I'm starting to suspect that Truss is a dim alter-ego account of Duty's, providing fodder to enable Duty to appear more competent at debating than he really is.

by **JuliusHMarx** Wed 17 May 2023, 7:19 pm

Galted wrote:I'm starting to suspect that Truss is a dim alter-ego account of Duty's, providing fodder to enable Duty to appear more competent at debating than he really is.

That's a girly boy thing to say Galted.

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 17 May 2023, 7:38 pm

Galted wrote:I'm starting to suspect that Truss is a dim alter-ego account of Duty's, providing fodder to enable Duty to appear more competent at debating than he really is.

Don't get sensitive on me.... Hug

by **Pr4wn** Wed 17 May 2023, 9:05 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Just checking, Duty, but was that a veiled accusation that Truss is an anti-Semite?

If he wants to keep defending anti-Semites, and blatantly anti-Semitic statements, I think we can all deduce the reason why.

Just because you say something is anti-Semitic, doesn't make it so. I'll remind you of the house rules and encourage both of you to drop this subject before it gets ugly. Thank you.

by Duty281 Wed 17 May 2023, 9:30 pm

Pr4wn wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Just checking, Duty, but was that a veiled accusation that Truss is an anti-Semite?

If he wants to keep defending anti-Semites, and blatantly anti-Semitic statements, I think we can all deduce the reason why.

Just because you say something is anti-Semitic, doesn't make it so. I'll remind you of the house rules and encourage both of you to drop this subject before it gets ugly. Thank you.

I haven't violated a single house rule. Diane Abbott's comments were blatantly anti-Semitic.

by **Pr4wn** Wed 17 May 2023, 10:15 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Just checking, Duty, but was that a veiled accusation that Truss is an anti-Semite?

If he wants to keep defending anti-Semites, and blatantly anti-Semitic statements, I think we can all deduce the reason why.

Just because you say something is anti-Semitic, doesn't make it so. I'll remind you of the house rules and encourage both of you to drop this subject before it gets ugly. Thank you.

I haven't violated a single house rule. Diane Abbott's comments were blatantly anti-Semitic.

Like I said, drop it. Thank you.

by mountain man Thu 18 May 2023, 8:25 am

Anyway, back on topic:

Last night BBC2 showed this
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p0fjgsps/11-minutes-americas-deadliest-mass-shooting-series-1-episode-1

Gives some idea of horror of a mass shooting.

by **navyblueshorts** Thu 18 May 2023, 8:59 am

How others deal with things in the event of a couple of shootings:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-65597622

by **superflyweight** Thu 18 May 2023, 9:37 am

Duty281 wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Just checking, Duty, but was that a veiled accusation that Truss is an anti-Semite?

I'm not sure why If he wants to keep defending alleged anti-Semites, and ~~blatantly~~ ~~anti-Semitic~~ statements which might be perceived by some to be anti-Semitic, ~~I think we can all deduce the reason why~~.

Just because you say something is anti-Semitic, doesn't make it so. I'll remind you of the house rules and encourage both of you to drop this subject before it gets ugly. Thank you.

I haven't violated a single house rule. It is my belief that Diane Abbott's comments ~~were blatantly~~ could be perceived to be anti-Semitic by some people.

Have tidied this up a bit to save the site and Duty some potential legal issues

by **Galted** Thu 18 May 2023, 9:45 am

superflyweight wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Just checking, Duty, but was that a veiled accusation that Truss is an anti-Semite?

I'm not sure why If he wants to keep defending alleged anti-Semites, and ~~blatantly~~ ~~anti-Semitic~~ statements which might be perceived by some to be anti-Semitic, ~~I think we can all deduce the reason why~~.

Just because you say something is anti-Semitic, doesn't make it so. I'll remind you of the house rules and encourage both of you to drop this subject before it gets ugly. Thank you.

I haven't violated a single house rule. It is my belief that Diane Abbott's comments ~~were blatantly~~ could be perceived to be anti-Semitic by some people.

Have tidied this up a bit to save the site and Duty some potential legal issues

What about Julius calling me a girly boy?

by **superflyweight** Thu 18 May 2023, 10:02 am

Galted wrote:
superflyweight wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Just checking, Duty, but was that a veiled accusation that Truss is an anti-Semite?

I'm not sure why If he wants to keep defending alleged anti-Semites, and ~~blatantly~~ ~~anti-Semitic~~ statements which might be perceived by some to be anti-Semitic, ~~I think we can all deduce the reason why~~.

Just because you say something is anti-Semitic, doesn't make it so. I'll remind you of the house rules and encourage both of you to drop this subject before it gets ugly. Thank you.

I haven't violated a single house rule. It is my belief that Diane Abbott's comments ~~were blatantly~~ could be perceived to be anti-Semitic by some people.

Have tidied this up a bit to save the site and Duty some potential legal issues

What about Julius calling me a girly boy?

'Fair comment' would be an adequate defence.

by **Galted** Thu 18 May 2023, 10:40 am

superflyweight wrote:
Galted wrote:
superflyweight wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Just checking, Duty, but was that a veiled accusation that Truss is an anti-Semite?

I'm not sure why If he wants to keep defending alleged anti-Semites, and ~~blatantly~~ ~~anti-Semitic~~ statements which might be perceived by some to be anti-Semitic, ~~I think we can all deduce the reason why~~.

Just because you say something is anti-Semitic, doesn't make it so. I'll remind you of the house rules and encourage both of you to drop this subject before it gets ugly. Thank you.

I haven't violated a single house rule. It is my belief that Diane Abbott's comments ~~were blatantly~~ could be perceived to be anti-Semitic by some people.

Have tidied this up a bit to save the site and Duty some potential legal issues

What about Julius calling me a girly boy?

'Fair comment' would be an adequate defence.

That's annoying. I was hoping that with Julius being old school and almost certainly saying the words as he typed them, I could sue him for slander and libel at the same time.

by **superflyweight** Thu 18 May 2023, 11:00 am

Galted wrote:
superflyweight wrote:
Galted wrote:
superflyweight wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Just checking, Duty, but was that a veiled accusation that Truss is an anti-Semite?

I'm not sure why If he wants to keep defending alleged anti-Semites, and ~~blatantly~~ ~~anti-Semitic~~ statements which might be perceived by some to be anti-Semitic, ~~I think we can all deduce the reason why~~.

Just because you say something is anti-Semitic, doesn't make it so. I'll remind you of the house rules and encourage both of you to drop this subject before it gets ugly. Thank you.

I haven't violated a single house rule. It is my belief that Diane Abbott's comments ~~were blatantly~~ could be perceived to be anti-Semitic by some people.

Have tidied this up a bit to save the site and Duty some potential legal issues

What about Julius calling me a girly boy?

'Fair comment' would be an adequate defence.

That's annoying. I was hoping that with Julius being old school and almost certainly saying the words as he typed them, I could sue him for slander and libel at the same time.

He dictates all his posts to his PA.

by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 18 May 2023, 11:09 am

Pr4wn wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Just checking, Duty, but was that a veiled accusation that Truss is an anti-Semite?

If he wants to keep defending anti-Semites, and blatantly anti-Semitic statements, I think we can all deduce the reason why.

Just because you say something is anti-Semitic, doesn't make it so. I'll remind you of the house rules and encourage both of you to drop this subject before it gets ugly. Thank you.

I haven't violated a single house rule. Diane Abbott's comments were blatantly anti-Semitic.

Like I said, drop it. Thank you.

Worth noting that BBC Newsnight put out an apology to Jeremy Corbyn on its website after it didn't confront a guest who called him an Antisemite..(no evidence Corbyn has ever said anything Antisemitic)...The guest was the same kind of vested interst moron as those calling Abbott out now.........

I've asked Duty plenty of times to tell me what it was she wrote in her piece that was "Antisemitic". (Spelt it right for him) Cool

and he still hasn't answered although his smokescreening has been quite impressive !!!....Noticeably several left wing Jewish people find the accusation laughable.....Left wing Jewish blogger Heather Mendick for one.....

As for the......Dim witted....Multi Alias..Truss is an antisemite stuff.......

I love you guys too..... thumbsup

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