Silly Season Transfer Rumours 23/24

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I need rumours.....and I need them now!

Quins and Tigers apparently trying to sign Izaia Perese from Waratahs.

Werner Kok confirmed to Ulster

Jason Jenkins off to the Sharks.....

Sharks must be letting some players go in the off season because they are bringing in a lot of big names in the Summer.

There is no way their form this year will be acceptable next year given the roster they are putting together.

Welshmushroom wrote:Jason Jenkins off to the Sharks.....

Sharks must be letting some players go in the off season because they are bringing in a lot of big names in the Summer.

There is no way their form this year will be acceptable next year given the roster they are putting together.

It's quite a roster they have already, making their form and results quite spectacular. I thought Leinster would keep Jenkins as they're losing Molony. Shame, as I'm sure Jason Jenkins is a bit Welsh and obviously Ireland is a bit closer to home for him...

Guessing Jenkins was to make the money available and a direct replacement with RG Snyman.

Molony probably isn't needed at this point and he hardly gets game time. Ryan, Baird and particularly McCarthy has them well stocked at lock.

The only issue of concern is can they keep RG fit. He's not had a lot of luck and I do think the signing is risky.

Sharks down in SA have got some wealthy backers who are starting to flex their financial muscle a bit. The current squad isn't bad but the results are not what they want. The addition of some further quality should help.

They are losing two locks in the summer so the Sharks did need to recruit.

Wade to Gloucester confirmed.

Sale have signed Sharks lock Hyron Andrews till end of season as cover for Johnny Hill

formerly known as Sam wrote:Sharks down in SA have got some wealthy backers who are starting to flex their financial muscle a bit. The current squad isn't bad but the results are not what they want. The addition of some further quality should help.

They are losing two locks in the summer so the Sharks did need to recruit.

I think Le Roux Roets is one (to SAle), not sure who the other is? The amount of monster lock forwards SA keep putting out is unreal. Most of them would make it into the 23 of various international teams.

Will Greatbanks, Welsh Qualified 21 year old, has signed for Ospreys from France Pro D2.

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:Will Greatbanks, Welsh Qualified 21 year old, has signed for Ospreys from France Pro D2.

Greatbanks, what a terrible name. It's almost as bad as calling your son Leicester!

"Leicester Tigers boss Dan McKellar has moved to strengthen his squad for next season with the double signing of NSW Waratahs outside centre Izaia Perese and Wales loosehead Nicky Smith.

Perese, 26, who was a member of Eddie Jones Wallabies World Cup squad, has now signed for Tigers and will be joining when his contract with Rugby Australia runs out later this year.

Smith, 29, who has played over 180 games since joining the Ospreys in 2012, has exercised an exit clause in his contract that he signed to stay with his hometown region last May."

According to Fissler.

Big loss for Ospreys. Smith isn’t a huge man but he’s very strong and technically, he’s very good in the scrum. The way he’s been overlooked for dross players, and Carre for that matter beggars belief.

mikey_dragon wrote:Big loss for Ospreys. Smith isn’t a huge man but he’s very strong and technically, he’s very good in the scrum. The way he’s been overlooked for dross players, and Carre for that matter beggars belief.

Steff Thomas rumoured to be heading over the Loughor to replace Smith.

Agree with you about the overlooked comment, obviously his face doesn't fit.

Oakdene wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Big loss for Ospreys. Smith isn’t a huge man but he’s very strong and technically, he’s very good in the scrum. The way he’s been overlooked for dross players, and Carre for that matter beggars belief.

Steff Thomas rumoured to be heading over the Loughor to replace Smith.

Agree with you about the overlooked comment, obviously his face doesn't fit.

Yes, that was rumoured a while back.

Gareth Thomas had a terrible 6N IMO. I would have Nicky Smith as starter, and Rhys Carre on bench, as Domachowski didn't do great either. Gatland will persist with sub-par selections and keep stealing a living, folks online will continue to simp for him - this has been happening a lot lately and I've never seen anything quite like it.

mikey_dragon wrote:

Oakdene wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Big loss for Ospreys. Smith isn’t a huge man but he’s very strong and technically, he’s very good in the scrum. The way he’s been overlooked for dross players, and Carre for that matter beggars belief.

Steff Thomas rumoured to be heading over the Loughor to replace Smith.

Agree with you about the overlooked comment, obviously his face doesn't fit.

Yes, that was rumoured a while back.

Gareth Thomas had a terrible 6N IMO. I would have Nicky Smith as starter, and Rhys Carre on bench, as Domachowski didn't do great either. Gatland will persist with sub-par selections and keep stealing a living, folks online will continue to simp for him - this has been happening a lot lately and I've never seen anything quite like it.

If Gatland is the answer I am not sure I know what the question is.

Sharks must be releasing a lot of players in the summer to fund the new singings. My understanding is that the 4 franchises operate a salary cap. So to make room for these players they must be cutting a lot of players to pay for that.

I did find this on SA salary caps for next season:-

"The salary cap has been raised by 26% for the upcoming season to R85. 5 million. There will be a further R10 million added to the cap for the 24/25 season. The squad size has also been increased to 53 players which will drastically assist in the sides competitiveness."

That means next season they will have 96 million rand (just under 4 million GBP). So the increase to the cap only counts for 414K GBP of their spends next season. That can't be enough money to cover all the new signings so guessing they will have a big clear out in the summer.

What's crazy to me is that SA sides are doing well in the URC and are only spending 3.5 million. Meanwhile us Welsh are complaining about spends at 5 million and are doing considerably worse than them.

Welshmushroom wrote:What's crazy to me is that SA sides are doing well in the URC and are only spending 3.5 million.  Meanwhile us Welsh are complaining about spends at 5 million and are doing considerably worse than them.  

It’s because the Rand is not really comparable to the £. We can compare the £ to Euro for Irish and other European nations as they are so similar and the cost of living is relatively comparable. But not so with SA. I would imagine they pay their players a lot less than we do. So £3.5m is huge in rand. It’s probably also why their players go abroad to get a huge wage for a few years which will last them a long time when they return home to retire.

Rand is pathetic overseas, probably a bit better if you live in South Africa. In addition to their salary, the franchises are reliant on their players getting various sponsorship deals to keep them at home. Rugby players would be more famous over there. Sharks and Bulls appear to be the big spenders, they must be located in wealthier cities. It's not a great comparison to make, us and them. It's South Africa, and I think for the last few years they have some golden generations and this is on-going; you only have to look at how many are overseas yet their franchises still have great strength in depth. Their schooling system and obviously their age grade teams at club and international level (includes U19 teams and goes to U23 I think, most just have U18 and U20) is working well for them.

Much truth in the Taniel Tupou to Leinster rumour? Ala'alatoa is off to Clermont.

Tupou is at the Rebels who are in financial difficulties. He doesn't look happy to be there or is at least playing in a way that suggests he isn't, having moved from the Reds.

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:What's crazy to me is that SA sides are doing well in the URC and are only spending 3.5 million.  Meanwhile us Welsh are complaining about spends at 5 million and are doing considerably worse than them.  

It’s because the Rand is not really comparable to the £. We can compare the £ to Euro for Irish and other European nations as they are so similar and the cost of living is relatively comparable. But not so with SA. I would imagine they pay their players a lot less than we do. So £3.5m is huge in rand. It’s probably also why their players go abroad to get a huge wage for a few years which will last them a long time when they return home to retire.

I'd have to look into the SA situation here, but tax can play a big part too.

That's potentially huge for players. In Japan that's big for instance. If Jasper Wiese goes to Japan then he could get paid the same salary as Tigers offered (apparently £550k) and take home around £130k more. It's a low flat rate tax there for the players and different image rights situation. His tax bill would likely halve.

Ireland have the huge tax rebates upon retirement for sportsmen as well. The pathways in Ireland are fantastic now, the provinces playing good rugby and the national team doing great. All of that of course helps keep players in Ireland too. Getting a f**k of massive tax free lump sum when you retire from the game is a pretty hefty incentive to stick around too though.

Tax is a factor that's very often overlooked in these discussion.

Corne Beers SA under 20s number 8 apparently heading to Tigers.

God, I wish there was a rugby player called Corny Beers. Turns out it's Beets though. Disappointing.

Tigers going down the development route to replace Wiese then. I'm not against it. Wiese replacements are thin on the ground and would also be prohibitively expensive at the minute. I just hope they look for physicality elsewhere in the pack though.

At the minute they look like a side that need it but are short of it if they lose a few starters. With Montoya, Martin, Chessum, Reffell and Wiese available it's grand. You're winning collisions with those 5 in a starting pack. When a few, or all, are missing at once though, I start to feel we have packs with lots of good players but lack power.

I've been hoping Tigers might target someone powerful but with enough flaws that they wont break the bank. Someone like Sione Vailanu. Not a perfect player. He isn't going to have much defensive impact, but other Tigers forwards are suited to covering that work rate. He can get over the gain line when he's got the ball though.

king_carlos wrote:

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:What's crazy to me is that SA sides are doing well in the URC and are only spending 3.5 million.  Meanwhile us Welsh are complaining about spends at 5 million and are doing considerably worse than them.  

It’s because the Rand is not really comparable to the £. We can compare the £ to Euro for Irish and other European nations as they are so similar and the cost of living is relatively comparable. But not so with SA. I would imagine they pay their players a lot less than we do. So £3.5m is huge in rand. It’s probably also why their players go abroad to get a huge wage for a few years which will last them a long time when they return home to retire.

I'd have to look into the SA situation here, but tax can play a big part too.

That's potentially huge for players. In Japan that's big for instance. If Jasper Wiese goes to Japan then he could get paid the same salary as Tigers offered (apparently £550k) and take home around £130k more. It's a low flat rate tax there for the players and different image rights situation. His tax bill would likely halve.

Ireland have the huge tax rebates upon retirement for sportsmen as well. The pathways in Ireland are fantastic now, the provinces playing good rugby and the national team doing great. All of that of course helps keep players in Ireland too. Getting a f**k of massive tax free lump sum when you retire from the game is a pretty hefty incentive to stick around too though.

Tax is a factor that's very often overlooked in these discussion.

Yes true. I’m not sure if I got my point across well or accurately. But was trying to point out to Welshmushroom that while SA teams having a budget of £3.5m on the face of it looks like they’re doing much better than than the Welsh regions (who are on £4.5m going forward), it’s not as straightforward as that! I did a bit of Googling and a few sites have the cost of living as around 80-90% higher in the UK compared to South Africa. And renting being nearly 100% higher in the uk. So the player salaries can be lower in SA to reflect that. Is that right? More complicated than that I’m sure. But £3.5m there for the squad will go a long way. Anyone actually know the normal/average salary for SA franchise team players??

Manu confirmed to Bayonne

Damn the auto correct

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:What's crazy to me is that SA sides are doing well in the URC and are only spending 3.5 million.  Meanwhile us Welsh are complaining about spends at 5 million and are doing considerably worse than them.  

It’s because the Rand is not really comparable to the £. We can compare the £ to Euro for Irish and other European nations as they are so similar and the cost of living is relatively comparable. But not so with SA. I would imagine they pay their players a lot less than we do. So £3.5m is huge in rand. It’s probably also why their players go abroad to get a huge wage for a few years which will last them a long time when they return home to retire.

I understand these are not directly comparable.

That said however I would argue this point. If your basic playing spend is 5 million and your teams come bottom of the pile, are the players at those teams overvalued? At the end of the day Welsh Regions determine the majority of welsh players ruby values. Yes there are outliers (and most of those will be leaving in the summer and some of those have already left). But the vast majority of players will not be wanted by overseas teams. That basically means the only value they have is determined by what the regions pay them. I think the regions are spending to cap purely to max out spends rather than actually working out if their squads are actually worth 5 million. Certainly the Scarlets and Dragons probably as a group are nowhere near the 5 million they are spending.

Socino leaving Gloucester for Bayonne.

mikey_dragon wrote:Much truth in the Taniel Tupou to Leinster rumour? Ala'alatoa is off to Clermont.

Would have thought so - they need a tighthead replacement and they look a bit light there now Ala'alatoa is off....

Nicky Smith now confirmed as joining Tigers.

I'm starting the rumour that Clark Laidlaw will be replacing Gregor Townsend as head coach of the Once and Forever Dark Horses.

Hopefully if enough people say it, it will become true.

George Carlin wrote:I'm starting the rumour that Clark Laidlaw will be replacing Gregor Townsend as head coach of the Once and Forever Dark Horses.

Hopefully if enough people say it, it will become true.

That would be quite the step up. He's only had a head coach role in 15s for a few months. He should be exactly the type of player the SRU coaching pathway types are keeping in contact with though. Same with Mike Blair over in Japan.

Moving Townsend up into the rugby director style role that Connor O'Shea is doing for England isn't a bad shout.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

George Carlin wrote:I'm starting the rumour that Clark Laidlaw will be replacing Gregor Townsend as head coach of the Once and Forever Dark Horses.

Hopefully if enough people say it, it will become true.

That would be quite the step up. He's only had a head coach role in 15s for a few months. He should be exactly the type of player the SRU coaching pathway types are keeping in contact with though. Same with Mike Blair over in Japan.

Moving Townsend up into the rugby director style role that Connor O'Shea is doing for England isn't a bad shout.

Was O'Shea previously overseeing Italian age grade rugby, or was that Jim Mallinder?

mikey_dragon wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

George Carlin wrote:I'm starting the rumour that Clark Laidlaw will be replacing Gregor Townsend as head coach of the Once and Forever Dark Horses.

Hopefully if enough people say it, it will become true.

That would be quite the step up. He's only had a head coach role in 15s for a few months. He should be exactly the type of player the SRU coaching pathway types are keeping in contact with though. Same with Mike Blair over in Japan.

Moving Townsend up into the rugby director style role that Connor O'Shea is doing for England isn't a bad shout.

Was O'Shea previously overseeing Italian age grade rugby, or was that Jim Mallinder?

O'Shea and Franco Smith were both involved in coaching Italy and developing their pathways.

Mallinder was meant to do the same for Scotland but has been not quite as successful you would have to say!

O'Shea deserve a lot of the credit to the improvement in aged grade rugby we are seeing in Italy.

The quality of the players coming through now owes much to the structures he put in place

Stephen Aboud deserves credit as well. He went in there and did some good work iirc. Interesting to see what he can do over in Canada now.

COS did a good job over in Italy and he seems to be doing a decent job with the RFU.

It was predominantly Aboud and the IRF president at the time who were influential with the Italy pathways. COS originally was joining as DOR, where his remit would've been the structures. Then the IRF shifted him to head coach and brought in Aboud. Who did excellent work on their setup.

Aboud's CV is really impressive. He was arguably the most influential individual in the professionalism of the Irish pathways. He started out running the player pathways and academies. Then ran the coaching pathways when coaching across Irish rugby was upskilled really impressively. Then he finished as Head of Technical Direction as those improvements were so efficiently harnessed. He really was involved from the ground up. A tracksuit to suit and tie success. Then he did similar with Italy. It's a great coup for Canada to nab him.

I posted a longer spiel about it on the England thread, but I do think COS has got a bit more credit for what went right with Italy rugby in that time, i.e. the back room stuff that others led, than he maybe deserved. Whilst he also got less flack for the bad side of Italy rugby at that point, i.e. the poorly performing senior men's team he was responsible for, than he potentially deserved. I still really rate COS as a coach, but he came out of that stint with his reputation burnished in an area he didn't have much involvement, whilst his coaching rep didn't take any hit from the results. Which is a pretty sweet deal with a win percentage pretty much the same as Brunel and Mallett before him, who are more remembered for overseeing poor sides. Though Mallett will forever be connected with the Mauro Bergamasco at 9 debacle.

Franco Smith had more involvement in the pathways and overall coaching. That was after Aboud's first five years of overhaul though. It was also after Smith lost 13 from 13 as head coach. He shifted into Head of High Performance, a job that he left with a better rep than managing the senior team.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

George Carlin wrote:I'm starting the rumour that Clark Laidlaw will be replacing Gregor Townsend as head coach of the Once and Forever Dark Horses.

Hopefully if enough people say it, it will become true.

That would be quite the step up. He's only had a head coach role in 15s for a few months. He should be exactly the type of player the SRU coaching pathway types are keeping in contact with though. Same with Mike Blair over in Japan.

Moving Townsend up into the rugby director style role thatConnor O'Shea is doing for England isn't a bad shout.

Regarding the bit I have put in bold, there are whispers that this may actually happen which I would not be against in the slightest . I don't think it would be Clark Laidlaw that replaces him as head coach though, I'm fairly convinced it will be Franco Smith which, again I wouldn't be against though I do think he needs another year or two at Glasgow to be ready for the Scotland job .

formerly known as Sam wrote:

George Carlin wrote:I'm starting the rumour that Clark Laidlaw will be replacing Gregor Townsend as head coach of the Once and Forever Dark Horses.

Hopefully if enough people say it, it will become true.

That would be quite the step up. He's only had a head coach role in 15s for a few months. He should be exactly the type of player the SRU coaching pathway types are keeping in contact with though. Same with Mike Blair over in Japan.

My post was obviously tongue in cheek, but similarly I think you're underestimating how fecked off I am with Townsend and how the SRU has protected him despite mediocre results.

I'm old fashioned and I think all jobs should be a meritocracy.

Wallabies outside centre Izaia Perese has confirmed his departure from the New South Wales Waratahs to take up a two year-deal at England's Leicester Tigers at the end of the Super Rugby Pacific season.

The hard-running 26-year-old has played three tests for Australia and been in standout form in the centres for the Waratahs in the first few games of the new season.

"It was a very, very difficult decision to make but it was also the best decision to make for me and my family going forward," the former rugby league winger said in a message to Waratahs fans on Thursday.

https://www.reuters.com/sports/wallabies-centre-parese-confirms-leicester-move-2024-03-21/

Perese was a strong rumour for a few weeks now. He was mentioned it went quiet and then he was mentioned again along with Nicky Smith. They've both now signed along with the Baby Bok Beets. Helps the squad for next season though there could be some more movement yet.

So Diamond as good as confirmed that Pepper and Louis Johnson away also....flippin disgrace.

Losing Brantingham, Pepper and Johnson in one go....

Geordie wrote:So Diamond as good as confirmed that Pepper and Louis Johnson away also....flippin disgrace.

Losing Brantingham, Pepper and Johnson in one go....

That's a stinker for Falcons. Any news on incoming players?

But Brantingham, Pepper and Johnson do sound like a decent law firm

Not a rumour now, but Dmitri Arhip joins Dragons until the end of the season. Pretty good by Dragons and I wouldn’t be surprised to see this permanent. Bit out of the blue, but certainly a better scrummager than those we have on our books (and we seemingly are down to the bare bones too).

Scarlets according to their biggest fan, Steffan, are also signing a pair of Aussies. I’m not sure who, I don’t subscribe but I wondered if anyone had heard anything?

I also wondered if the ‘Thomas’ linked to Cardiff was Henry.

Henry Thomas is out of contract with Castres in the summer. A move back to Wales might give him another shot at international rugby.

Sure I read on here that Henry Thomas had gone a bit merde lately? Basically, since his stint with Wales! Would be only right that he’s then picked up by a Welsh team while he’s on the way down. ‘Tis the way!

Thomas went a bit merde halfway through his time with Bath, after all the injuries. Early on with Sale he looked like a great athlete, was decent in the tight. Then he moved to Bath and started adding some really nice carrying and handling touches to that. Then he had injury issues and just fell off a cliff.

IIRC, his downturn pretty much exactly coincided with Davey Wilson leaving Bath. Thomas was just overtaking him in their final season as teammates, so Wilson moved on. Then Thomas had the injuries and form slump. They suddenly went from having an experienced international who was rock solid at set-piece in Wilson and a more mobile upcomer in Thomas, to Max Lahiff and Kane Palma-Newport playing a lot of minutes.