Glasgow and Edinburgh 30 - Starting the new season with 2 wins - Long may it continue

by **BigGee** Mon Oct 23, 2023 9:32 am

First topic message reminder :

Well both Scotland's pro teams got off the mark with a W this weekend, though probably fair to say that Glasgow's was slightly more pleasing on the eye!

Still not to be sniffed at and probably a while since it last happened.

A good omen for the season, let's hope so, though early season games are not always a predictor of longer term performance. Both sides still got plenty of players to bring back into the fold and a lot of improvement to make.

Roll on 2023/24!

by **BigGee** Fri Nov 10, 2023 9:44 am

That is an unfortunate situation for BV and Edinburgh and you can understsnd why he needed some time off.

I don't think Price is actually fit at the moment, did he not come back frkm the WC with an injury? So it may not help them in the short term.

Hopefully BVs child is improving and he can get back to playing rugby soon.

Will watch this week team announcements with interest. George Horne has also not had a post WC break either, I imagine he was scheduled to have that when Price came back to play. Glasgow will have to manage that situation now as well.

by **RDW** Fri Nov 10, 2023 11:40 am

Ah that's not good. Hope it's not as bad as first sounds.

by jimbopip Fri Nov 10, 2023 12:36 pm

Teams oot!

Bhatti -Scouse Jonny -Sordoni
Richie-Big Man Jessie
Big Shona-Fagerson- Henco
House Elf
Meatball
Rowe
Stafford
Wee Shona
Sebastian
Smith
Bench; Fraser, Dell, Pirate, Peterson, Samuels, Miller, Kennedy, Jordan.

Plenty of grunt in that pack, and bench.
The absence of an out and out 7 could be a problem though.
Kennedy as back up 9 shows why Aldi Price should not have gone east: The Luvvies, where Glasgow scrum halves go to die.
I'm hoping Meatball shows us he's still a viable option. You do wonder what Thompson has done to annoy the General.

by **BigGee** Fri Nov 10, 2023 12:45 pm

RDW wrote:Ah that's not good. Hope it's not as bad as first sounds.

BV is on the Luuvies bench for saturday, so presumably, the news is better.

by **BigGee** Fri Nov 10, 2023 12:48 pm

A few other players; Darge, Horne and Cummings, getting their rest weeks in now.

Keeble presumably misses out for giving away far to many stupid penalties last week!

by **George Carlin** Fri Nov 10, 2023 2:30 pm

Hazel Sapling wrote:
RDW wrote:Has anyone paid attention to the SRU accounts? Was discussed in the Scottish rugby podcast on BBC.

Despite having a large number of home games with large crowds, multiple stadium full concerts and a Man United friendly, the SRU lost £10.5M.

That's not good news as there's no obvious additional income streams in the horizon.

Took a look at it and thought it was not great. There were one off items and depreciation but if you go by cash flow, we lost about £8m last year rather than £10m.

Looking at the costs side are going up with £2.4m (or 21%) more for international rugby, £4.5m (or 22%) more for professional rugby and £2m (or 44%) more in commercial costs (whilst income dropped from commercial by £600k). There was also a £700k (or 20%) increase in club support funds. The board increased its payments by £220k to £1.4m and they spent £3.5m more on facilities than last year (50% increase)

Wages going up by £7m probably explains much of the international and professional rugby increases. New staff include 15 full time professional women, four GB 7's players, one more Glasgow pro player, five more commercial staff, three more rugby development staff and seven more recruits in High Performance rugby. Looking online, it says 28 getting an average of £25k each (so £700k) though that does not match up. Looks like wage inflation of existing staff mainly.

Club rugby brought income of £10.5m which seems low. Suggests they lost £15m between the two clubs.

What can we realistically do? Short run
- We pay more for our directors than the RFU did last year. I respect what Dodson has done but it is probably time for him to go and to have a bit of a clearout. We should be paying about £400-500k less than we are on executive pay
- We have almost 50 professional players listed for Glasgow and Edinburgh. After the World Cup year is done, both sides need to probably look at clearing the decks to get that down to 42-44 and rely more on the 15 academy players they have each. That probably saves £1m
- Have no idea why commercial costs exploded when revenue dropped. That needs to be fixed rapidly

Long run:
- Got to get a bigger stadium for Glasgow to increase ticket revenue and find a way to get Edinburgh ticket sales up.
- Sort out broadcasting rights for the URC or look at British and Irish league. The clubs need to get losses down to £1-2m a piece and TV is a big part of that
- Need to update Murrayfield though this will be at huge cost. Wales and England make more money from international ticket revenue. Wales had an average attendance higher than Murrayfield's capacity. In the long run, we need to have more hospitality for the FES' of the world and more cheap seats for the rest of us.

Very good breakdown Hazel. Maybe we could adopt the Welsh model of playing a pointless international against Namibia Ladies Second XV on the wrong side of the borderline of the test window so that we can make more money and injure most of our best players.

by Hazel Sapling Fri Nov 10, 2023 4:38 pm

Charlie Savala on a short loan to Northampton.

Northampton are losing Grayson after this weekend and they only have 13(!) other senior backs according to wiki. Savala will be backing up Fin Smith. Fourth Scot in the squad after Robbie Smith, Millar-Mills and Rory Hutchinson.

by **RDW** Sat Nov 11, 2023 1:36 am

I worry for Glasgow that Duncan Weir is apparently a frontline 10, and Sean Kennedy is going to regularly be relied upon at 9!

by **George Carlin** Sat Nov 11, 2023 7:29 am

RDW wrote:I worry for Glasgow that Duncan Weir is apparently a frontline 10, and Sean Kennedy is going to regularly be relied upon at 9!

Yeah. I'm not really sure how we came to be in this position.

by Mcsweens Sat Nov 11, 2023 9:31 am

[quote="Hazel Sapling"]

RDW wrote:Has anyone paid attention to the SRU accounts? Was discussed in the Scottish rugby podcast on BBC.

Long run:
- Got to get a bigger stadium for Glasgow to increase ticket revenue and find a way to get Edinburgh ticket sales up.
- Sort out broadcasting rights for the URC or look at British and Irish league. The clubs need to get losses down to £1-2m a piece and TV is a big part of that
- Need to update Murrayfield though this will be at huge cost. Wales and England make more money from international ticket revenue. Wales had an average attendance higher than Murrayfield's capacity. In the long run, we need to have more hospitality for the FES' of the world and more cheap seats for the rest of us.

Murrayfield hospitality suites; good for the 90s. Not so much now. I agree that Murrayfield is due a update. I think Dodson has talked before about adding a 3rd tier to the stand that was originally build in the 80s, and which causes the rest of the structure to lose its symmetry. Unlikely to happen though. I also have heard that there is a lot of ongoing maintenance of the stadium which has been scrimped on over the years and is now coming home to roost, so it might be necessary to start there.
I believe that stadium finance is actually relatively straightforward to achieve, as banks see a clear route to return from investment. Do we really need to add a new tier though, and can it be consistently filled? I've often wondered about lowering the pitch 1-2 metres instead, given the space there is currently between the pitch and the stands and the deep in goals. Not an engineer, but could possibly add an extra 2-3 thousand that way as well as bring the pitch closer.

Difficult to add more hospitality without adding another stand though.

Regarding the pro-club stadiums, the DAM is a great location, but it's very existence makes me cringe at all those wasted years bouncing around the club grounds of South Edinburgh and playing to 98% empty Murrayfield. The SRU thrives on inertia - Glasgow need a better stadium but it won't happen soon.

by bsando Sat Nov 11, 2023 12:51 pm

Great to see Andy Christie being rated so highly by Mark McCall at Saracens. Ritchie, Crosbie, Fagerson and Christie make for a very well stocked blindside flank going forwards. That’s before the new generation starting to emerge at Glasgow and Edinburgh.

by Mcsweens Sat Nov 11, 2023 4:07 pm

Hazel Sapling wrote:Charlie Savala on a short loan to Northampton.

Northampton are losing Grayson after this weekend and they only have 13(!) other senior backs according to wiki. Savala will be backing up Fin Smith. Fourth Scot in the squad after Robbie Smith, Millar-Mills and Rory Hutchinson.

Bit of a stretch calling Savala Scottish... censored

by Hazel Sapling Sat Nov 11, 2023 4:29 pm

Mcsweens wrote:
Hazel Sapling wrote:Charlie Savala on a short loan to Northampton.

Northampton are losing Grayson after this weekend and they only have 13(!) other senior backs according to wiki. Savala will be backing up Fin Smith. Fourth Scot in the squad after Robbie Smith, Millar-Mills and Rory Hutchinson.

Bit of a stretch calling Savala Scottish...

I thought he was SQ...if not, might not be coming back after all

by **BigGee** Sat Nov 11, 2023 4:49 pm

Hazel Sapling wrote:
Mcsweens wrote:
Hazel Sapling wrote:Charlie Savala on a short loan to Northampton.

Northampton are losing Grayson after this weekend and they only have 13(!) other senior backs according to wiki. Savala will be backing up Fin Smith. Fourth Scot in the squad after Robbie Smith, Millar-Mills and Rory Hutchinson.

Bit of a stretch calling Savala Scottish...

I thought he was SQ...if not, might not be coming back after all

He is SQ, was the international squad at one stage last year, though clearly not ready for international rugby yet.

It is probably a good move for him to get some different experience and hopefully some game time down south.

Edinburgh gave him a three yesr contract last year, so clearly see a future for him. They will surely be needing him when Healy us away with Scotland.

by **BigGee** Sat Nov 11, 2023 5:48 pm

Duncy is in trouble here!

by **BigGee** Sat Nov 11, 2023 5:49 pm

YC for Duncy, probably a bit lucky there

by **BigGee** Sat Nov 11, 2023 6:03 pm

Johnny the Scouser does it again.

Glasgow have played better with 14 players than 15!

by Heuer27 Sat Nov 11, 2023 6:19 pm

My god Glasgow have been playing like Edinburgh. Now that’s about the most appropriate insult I can throw in their direction. I would be amazed if Franco Smith did not peel the paint off the walls at half time.

by **George Carlin** Sat Nov 11, 2023 6:33 pm

Johnny Matthews has now scored 29 tries in 54 games for Glasgow. Laugh

That's DTH VdM levels of marksmanship.

by Heuer27 Sat Nov 11, 2023 7:47 pm

Ooft Edinburgh have went all Glasgow. Great start

by **BigGee** Sat Nov 11, 2023 7:53 pm

Had to watch the second half on delay for various reasons.

That was a decent result for Glasgow, Ospreys look like a decent team atm

Johnny the Scouser gets MoM again. Is the Pope a Catholic?

by **RDW** Sat Nov 11, 2023 8:26 pm

Pretty loose stuff from Edinburgh - flinging it around all over the place without much control or accuracy. Weird half too with very little stoppages or penalties.

Edinburgh need more control and accuracy - the game is there for the taking.

by Hazel Sapling Sat Nov 11, 2023 9:17 pm

Vellacott having a strong game today. Hopefully this is him setting a marker that he wants the starting jersey.

About to say Edinburgh have 10 minutes to hold out and maybe get the bonus point. Immediately drop the restart...

by **RDW** Sat Nov 11, 2023 9:18 pm

Urgh, so frustrating Edinburgh.

Vellacott has definitely made a big impact and very clever tap kick for a try.

But then Edinburgh drop the bloody restart!

by doctor_grey Sat Nov 11, 2023 9:22 pm

Nice scrum by Edi, I always like seeing scrums walk straight through their opponents (especially if we are talking about a Saints scrum going forward). Kind of impressed how Connacht has hung in there.

by **RDW** Sat Nov 11, 2023 9:37 pm

Oof Healy wins it at the death! He's got a cool head on him that's for sure.

Still not a great Edinburgh performance but we won, and that's all that matters right now.

by **BigGee** Sat Nov 11, 2023 9:46 pm

been watching everything on delay tonight.

Decent win for Edinburgh, Connacht are the form side in the league atm.

BV certainly showed that he was not overawed by the arrival of Ali Price at the Hive, he won that game for them!

by **George Carlin** Sun Nov 12, 2023 6:28 am

Shows what a good piece of business it was to tempt Healey away.

He's going to be vital to the Retinol Cream Purchasers' chances of doing anything this season.

by jimbopip Sun Nov 12, 2023 9:07 am

There's an old maxim that champions are teams who keep winning even, or especially, when playing badly.
In that case Evri should be delivering the trophy to Scotstoun any day now.

Mind, over the past decade or so The Luvvies have consistently lived up to one half of the old maxim.

by **RDW** Mon Nov 13, 2023 10:49 am

It's funny how skewed a memory you can get in terms of how long a player has been at a club. Boan Venter got his 50th at the weekend - if I was to guess before that I'd say 30 at best.

Charlie Shiel is on 57 appearances!!

by bsando Mon Nov 13, 2023 12:21 pm

Yeah that’s crazy. Even Schoeman with 100 seems mad to me.

by **BigGee** Mon Nov 13, 2023 12:33 pm

Venter has put in a decent shift for Edinburgh, he seems pretty robust, rarely injured.

Sheil has a lot of caps, but very few starts

by Hazel Sapling Mon Nov 13, 2023 4:52 pm

Managed to keep an eye on both games this weekend. Both teams did well to win playing as poorly as they did against difficult opponents. Healy's kicking has very much lifted Edinburgh's floor from 12th with several heartbreaking losses to staying in the competition for 8th to the end.

What came through in the Edinburgh game was just how soft they are in defense. Kinghorn is averse to contact, which is ridiculous considering he is near the size of an international second row. VDM hates tackling.

What is more inexcusable though is the lack of physicality that Young and Gilchrist give at the heart of the pack. A Skinner-Sykes second row would be much more abrasive.

As a side note, Toulon look like they might get Jaminet from Toulouse. I assume that will end their interest in Kinghorn, which is a shame as they might have forced him to, you know, be willing to tackle head on.

by **George Carlin** Tue Nov 14, 2023 9:14 am

Yes, Gilchrist was growing on me as I saw some good international performances but he seems to be back to his default as the Giant Sumph. I want to be fair because he's 33 now and will be slowing naturally but there's a reason he scores so few tries - he never seems to be the target for goal line carries (either internationally or for Edinburgh).

by bsando Tue Nov 14, 2023 10:05 pm

https://www.rugbypass.com/plus/the-scottish-mastermind-thriving-behind-the-scenes-in-frances-top-14/

This was a good read despite the usual poor grammar from Rugby Pass journo's

by **George Carlin** Thu Nov 16, 2023 9:49 am

bsando wrote:https://www.rugbypass.com/plus/the-scottish-mastermind-thriving-behind-the-scenes-in-frances-top-14/

This was a good read despite the usual poor grammar from Rugby Pass journo's

It was Bsando - thank you.

Interesting to see all of this listed out:

A grammatically challenged writer wrote:As McIlroy senior takes his first steps at Montpellier, he is now one of many Scots ploughing furrows around world rugby. Of the more well-known, Scots-born Aussie-raised and former Borders flanker Matt Taylor left the Scotland team to become Wallabies assistant; the first South African to join Scotland’s pro ranks, Matt Proudfoot, moved from the Springboks to England’s coaching staff after the 2019 World Cup win; Bryan Redpath is back coaching with London Scottish after leading Sale and Gloucester; Carl Hogg has enjoyed a long spell at Gloucester; Mike Blair and Greig Laidlaw are coaching in Japan; Stevie Scott is at Bath; and as well as now having over 50 technical rugby inventions to his name, Richie Gray coaches Toulon, after spells with the Springboks, Fiji, Montpellier and the Miami Dolphins.

by Tramptastic Thu Nov 16, 2023 10:05 am

Out of all of those scottish coaches named I think the SRU obtaining the services of Richie Gray would be quite the coup. Wherever he goes he's successful and the brief stint he had assisting Cotter, Scotland looked ferocious at the breakdown.

Sadly i dont think he'll come back, he really didnt like the way Dodson got rid of Cotter.

by **RDW** Thu Nov 16, 2023 10:52 am

Well......this isn't ideal for Hoggy

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/24751770/rugby-stuart-hogg-split-wife-jockey-lover-spa/

by **BigGee** Thu Nov 16, 2023 11:21 am

Oh dear

The rumours were true then

by Mcsweens Thu Nov 16, 2023 12:14 pm

Always knew he was a wrong 'un.

by Mcsweens Thu Nov 16, 2023 12:14 pm

RDW wrote:Well......this isn't ideal for Hoggy

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/24751770/rugby-stuart-hogg-split-wife-jockey-lover-spa/

I wouldn't say it's ideal for the wife and kids either.

by Hazel Sapling Thu Nov 16, 2023 12:43 pm

Edinburgh team out

15. Blair Kinghorn (137)

14. Wes Goosen (14)
13. Mark Bennett (92)
12. James Lang (40)
11. Duhan van der Merwe (77)

10. Ben Healy (4)
9. Ben Vellacott (41) CO-CAPTAIN

1. Pierre Schoeman (100)
2. Ewan Ashman (3)
3. WP Nel (190)
4. Glen Young (26)
5. Grant Gilchrist (191) CO-CAPTAIN
6. Jamie Ritchie (98)
7. Connor Boyle (36)
8. Viliame Mata (118)

Replacements

16. Dave Cherry (75)
17. Boan Venter (50)
18. Javan Sebastian (4)
19. Marshall Sykes (45)
20. Tom Dodd (3)
21. Ali Price*
22. Cammy Scott (4)
23. Chris Dean (139)

Unavailable: Emiliano Boffelli (toe), Luan de Bruin (back), Luke Crosbie (concussion), Matt Currie (thigh) Darcy Graham (hip), Jake Henry (knee), Mikey Jones (ankle), Cam Neild (knee), Sam Skinner (knee), Scott Steele (hip), Nathan Sweeney (hamstring), Hamish Watson (cheekbone).

by Hazel Sapling Thu Nov 16, 2023 12:49 pm

Vellcott gets rewarded for his efforts last week from the bench. Price gets to babysit Scott if Healy comes off or slow the game down if Edinburgh lead with 20-25 minutes to go.

The Powder Puff duo continue in the engine room. At least with Sykes and Dodd there is some physicality to come on. Shame Crosbie was not quite ready for this game.

Bulls will be a good litmus test. They are a physical team at the end of a long tour. If Edinburgh want to be in the playoffs, they have to take the opportunity to put them away.

by **George Carlin** Thu Nov 16, 2023 12:55 pm

Mcsweens wrote:
RDW wrote:Well......this isn't ideal for Hoggy

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/24751770/rugby-stuart-hogg-split-wife-jockey-lover-spa/

I wouldn't say it's ideal for the wife and kids either.

7 years' married, 4 kids. A bit like the way he played rugby - not hanging around and with scant regard for appearances.

The fact that his new bit of stuff posted an Insta picture of them both on a spa day just after Hoggy's 4th baby appeared doesn't really suggest she is the most compassionate or understated sort.

by **NeilyBroon** Thu Nov 16, 2023 1:48 pm

Mcsweens wrote:Always knew he was a wrong 'un.

The thing is, there's breaking up with your partner, and there's breaking up with no respect or humility.

Sounds like he's been a right tw*t about the whole affair, which given he's spent a lot of time complaining about how awfully people are treated on social media (which is absolutely fair) seems very ironic.

If he'd kept it all private for at least a while he could have come out with a bit more dignity, but it seems his personality on the pitch is reflected in his private life. Shame.

by **RDW** Thu Nov 16, 2023 8:26 pm

George Carlin wrote:
Mcsweens wrote:
RDW wrote:Well......this isn't ideal for Hoggy

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/24751770/rugby-stuart-hogg-split-wife-jockey-lover-spa/

I wouldn't say it's ideal for the wife and kids either.
7 years' married, 4 kids. A bit like the way he played rugby - not hanging around and with scant regard for appearances.

The fact that his new bit of stuff posted an Insta picture of them both on a spa day just after Hoggy's 4th baby appeared doesn't really suggest she is the most compassionate or understated sort.

I believe 'homewrecker' is the phrase. She's taken the post down now - definitely not a good look.

Really poor from Hoggy and you've got to feel for his ex wife and kids. There is of course two sides to every story and I'm sure hogg will have his say. Working in the media he's not gonna have much choice!

by **BigGee** Thu Nov 16, 2023 8:43 pm

RDW wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
Mcsweens wrote:
RDW wrote:Well......this isn't ideal for Hoggy

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/24751770/rugby-stuart-hogg-split-wife-jockey-lover-spa/

I wouldn't say it's ideal for the wife and kids either.
7 years' married, 4 kids. A bit like the way he played rugby - not hanging around and with scant regard for appearances.

The fact that his new bit of stuff posted an Insta picture of them both on a spa day just after Hoggy's 4th baby appeared doesn't really suggest she is the most compassionate or understated sort.

I believe 'homewrecker' is the phrase. She's taken the post down now - definitely not a good look.

Really poor from Hoggy and you've got to feel for his ex wife and kids. There is of course two sides to every story and I'm sure hogg will have his say. Working in the media he's not gonna have much choice!

Hmm, it may take some spin to talk his way out of this one!

by jimbopip Thu Nov 16, 2023 9:21 pm

Lads! Lads!!
I shall refrain from commenting on Hogg's miserable situation.
However I shall say this; I am very, very disappointed with you lot.
He's riding a jockey ffs. This is comedy gold. Not one of you has even tried to make anything of it.

Baby
Stable
Second coming
A great ride
Retired to stud
Fined for excessive use of the whip
Up and under
He had the bit between his teeth..

Come on boys you can do this.

by **NeilyBroon** Fri Nov 17, 2023 6:42 am

jimbopip wrote:Lads! Lads!!
I shall refrain from commenting on Hogg's miserable situation.
However I shall say this; I am very, very disappointed with you lot.
He's riding a jockey ffs. This is comedy gold. Not one of you has even tried to make anything of it.

Baby
Stable
Second coming
A great ride
Retired to stud
Fined for excessive use of the whip
Up and under
He had the bit between his teeth..

Come on boys you can do this.

Give me a few red rums then I'll get back to you on that one

by **BigGee** Fri Nov 17, 2023 11:25 am

Glasgow's half back woes continue, post Price heading to the East.

Dobie confirmed to have had surgery on his ankle, so he will presumably be out for a little while. Luckily Sean Kennedy showed some decent form last weekend and may well start this week, as Horne is still on his break. Maybe we will see Ben Ashfar on the bench for the Warriors.

Duncy has got himself a three week ban for a high tackle last weekend down in Wales. I had missed that he had been cited but did see the tackle and thought he was a bit lucky to have got away with it at the time. Maybe we will see the lesser spotted Ross Thompson this weekend.

All will be revealed in half an hour or so!

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