Glasgow and Edinburgh 30 - Starting the new season with 2 wins - Long may it continue

First topic message reminder :

Well both Scotland's pro teams got off the mark with a W this weekend, though probably fair to say that Glasgow's was slightly more pleasing on the eye!

Still not to be sniffed at and probably a while since it last happened.

A good omen for the season, let's hope so, though early season games are not always a predictor of longer term performance. Both sides still got plenty of players to bring back into the fold and a lot of improvement to make.

Roll on 2023/24!

There we are, very unusual for Franco to use his bench this early, but he needs to role the dice, three new forwards come on

Finn Smith slots another pen, it's not getting any easier for the warriors

What a total nonsense call. You can’t throw your players over to the other side of a line out and let them go. Taken out in the air my backside

That was a scrum pen to Glasgow all day long!

BigGee wrote:That was a scrum pen to Glasgow all day long!

I don't think it helped that Glasgow only went forward after both props went down. That being said it did look like Hill hinged first. At least should have been a reset.

Fin

That won't improve the mood, couldn't see what happened there. Don't want to tempt things for Saints, but you'd probably think that this is the game.

I had previously thought Fin had a rain man haircut. But now it looks more Henry II.

What do you think?

doctor_grey wrote:I had previously thought Fin had a rain man haircut.  But now it looks more Henry II.

What do you think?

More like his mum's given him a bowl cut.

About all that has worked for Glasgow this game has been our scrum

With time for a come back slipping away, I think Saints will/should be gutted if they don't get a 4th try.

A consolation try from Glasgow who finally show a bit attacking prowess

We have looked a lot better already with Jordan at 12 and Afshar/Thompson as half backs

BigGee wrote:A consolation try from Glasgow who finally show a bit attacking prowess

But these are the Saints. You never know what they can squander.

What a stupid thing to do, your team pulls off a great defensive piece and he acts like a complete bell end.

What a brain dead penalty to give away

Rolling maul hasn't worked all night but let's not run a dummy move and then crash the massive replacement 8 at Fin Smith a few metres out. No, let's maul again and get turned over.

To be fair that was textbook sealing off by Glasgow.

Edinburgh have been scrummed off the park by Claremont this evening.

Why box kick that? Northampton can't lose and they are chasing the bonus point. It really irritates me.

tigertattie wrote:Edinburgh have been scrummed off the park by Claremont this evening.

Any positives tattie?

Penalty try the first time we get a maul moving!

28-19 Saints

Can either side pick up a BP?

BigGee wrote:Penalty try the first time we get a maul moving!

28-19 Saints

Can either side pick up a BP?

I will let you know in a minute

Trevor Davison can play both sides. Surprised Saints didn't bring him back on and stay at 14 as now they're down to 13 for the final Glasgow attack.

Why oh why do be you go to the back? You've got two forwards more, go to the front. Take the safe ball and then maul it. The maul was on top. Horrendous call at the death, great marking at the lineout from Lawes.

What a mess we made of that last play

For all our ineptitude, we really should have taken 2 points away from this and instead we leave with nothing.

Well done Saints though, no complaints about the result, despite the equal try count. A lesson to us on how to take your chances.

Once again, our lack of controlling half backs cost us massively!

That was pretty rubbish play from Glasgow there, they really should have reloaded and gone again. Against 13 tiring men it must have been a matter of time

Saying that, brilliant performance from Northampton. To go away and win by two scores is impressive.

doctor_grey wrote:

BigGee wrote:Penalty try the first time we get a maul moving!

28-19 Saints

Can either side pick up a BP?

I will let you know in a minute

No

Bad result for Glasgow that. Getting nothing from that game could easily put us out of both competitions. It might depend on how seriously Bayonne are taking it. You would think we will now need to get a result in one of our away games, or hope that Toulon can't be bothered to turn up for an away game in Glasgow in January (always possible).

All in all a pretty poor performance from us, we should have taken something from that game.

Maybe Franco will now learn that we will never be a decent team till we have some proper half backs on the pitch. Kennedy is not good enough and Jordan is not a 10 (though he does look like he might be a very good 12)

RDW wrote:

tigertattie wrote:Edinburgh have been scrummed off the park by Claremont this evening.

Any positives tattie?

Erm. I’d say not

Scrums were stinking

Lineouts were utter pish

Tactics were 2 rucks and box kick

Would have been better putting the Musselburgh under 18s (2023 schools bowl champs) out there instead

BigGee wrote:Bad result for Glasgow that. Getting nothing from that game could easily put us out of both competitions. It might depend on how seriously Bayonne are taking it. You would think we will now need to get a result in one of our away games, or hope that Toulon can't be bothered to turn up for an away game in Glasgow in January (always possible).

All in all a pretty poor performance from us, we should have taken something from that game.

Maybe Franco will now learn that we will never be a decent team till we have some proper half backs on the pitch. Kennedy is not good enough and Jordan is not a 10 (though he does look like he might be a very good 12)

I really don't think there was much between the teams, except at the halfbacks. Not sure why Warriors didn't keep trying to get the ball wide.

doctor_grey wrote:

BigGee wrote:Bad result for Glasgow that. Getting nothing from that game could easily put us out of both competitions. It might depend on how seriously Bayonne are taking it. You would think we will now need to get a result in one of our away games, or hope that Toulon can't be bothered to turn up for an away game in Glasgow in January (always possible).

All in all a pretty poor performance from us, we should have taken something from that game.

Maybe Franco will now learn that we will never be a decent team till we have some proper half backs on the pitch. Kennedy is not good enough and Jordan is not a 10 (though he does look like he might be a very good 12)

I really don't think there was much between the teams, except at the halfbacks.  Not sure why Warriors didn't keep trying to get the ball wide.  

Unfortunately for Glasgow atm, it is all about the halfbacks. It is our weak link and until we address it, we won't be competitive in these big games. It's a shame, as there are plenty other parts of our game that are working pretty well.

Kinghorn straight in as FB for Toulouse sgsingst Cardiff in the Champs cup this afternoon

It should be a pretty gentle introduction for him.

BigGee wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

BigGee wrote:Bad result for Glasgow that. Getting nothing from that game could easily put us out of both competitions. It might depend on how seriously Bayonne are taking it. You would think we will now need to get a result in one of our away games, or hope that Toulon can't be bothered to turn up for an away game in Glasgow in January (always possible).

All in all a pretty poor performance from us, we should have taken something from that game.

Maybe Franco will now learn that we will never be a decent team till we have some proper half backs on the pitch. Kennedy is not good enough and Jordan is not a 10 (though he does look like he might be a very good 12)

I really don't think there was much between the teams, except at the halfbacks.  Not sure why Warriors didn't keep trying to get the ball wide.  

Unfortunately for Glasgow atm, it is all about the halfbacks. It is our weak link and until we address it, we won't be competitive in these big games. It's a shame, as there are plenty other parts of our game that are working pretty well.

Just watched some highlights.  I still can't see how that was a yellow.  And, as the commentators said, couldn't have been Cummings fault because he was lifted across the lineout.  To me, just an odd Rugby incident.  

Despite that, the clear point of difference for Saints were the halfbacks.  The scrum was a surprising strength too -haven't said that in a long time, back to when Dowson was still playing for Saints with Tiny and Mooj in the front row).

What the actual F……..

I’ve just seen the replay of the Cummings yellow. Cummings as the jumper got a yellow card for what was a carbon copy of the yellow that Edinburgh got when Laminini jumped over the Edinburgh lifters who were deemed to have taken him out on the air

Hopefully some rugby nerd can produce a side by side. Feckin objectivity does my nut in sometimes

doctor_grey wrote:

BigGee wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

BigGee wrote:Bad result for Glasgow that. Getting nothing from that game could easily put us out of both competitions. It might depend on how seriously Bayonne are taking it. You would think we will now need to get a result in one of our away games, or hope that Toulon can't be bothered to turn up for an away game in Glasgow in January (always possible).

All in all a pretty poor performance from us, we should have taken something from that game.

Maybe Franco will now learn that we will never be a decent team till we have some proper half backs on the pitch. Kennedy is not good enough and Jordan is not a 10 (though he does look like he might be a very good 12)

I really don't think there was much between the teams, except at the halfbacks.  Not sure why Warriors didn't keep trying to get the ball wide.  

Unfortunately for Glasgow atm, it is all about the halfbacks. It is our weak link and until we address it, we won't be competitive in these big games. It's a shame, as there are plenty other parts of our game that are working pretty well.

Just watched some highlights.  I still can't see how that was a yellow.  And, as the commentators said, couldn't have been Cummings fault because he was lifted across the lineout.  To me, just an odd Rugby incident.  

Despite that, the clear point of difference for Saints were the halfbacks.  The scrum was a surprising strength too -haven't said that in a long time, back to when Dowson was still playing for Saints with Tiny and Mooj in the front row).

So, at the start of the season we had a British and Irish Lion and two Scotland internationals at 9, Kennedy was seen as the old pro who would help coach the youngsters and would probably never start a competitive/ important match, Ben Afshar was seen as a real prospect who would be introduced to first team rugby judiciously.
At 10 we had, a Puma international, a Wonder Kid who came through the academy and was Players' Player of the season last year, an experienced pro who could expect to be called on intermittently (filling pretty much the mentoring role with the young 10's as Kennedy does for the 9's) and a Kiwi 12 who looks a very good player but is third in line for the 12 jersey behind Stafford and Shona.

Well, we somehow conspired to have our fourth and fifth choice scrum halves as the only ones available and played fourth choice Tom Jordan at 10. Jordan looks as if he is a good 12 but has no real kicking game lacks experience in game management at this level.

Did Ross Thompson get on the pitch last night? Did he come on when there was four minutes left, again?

There are a lot of positive things to be said about The General's way of doing things. However...

The Brains Trust at Murrayfield decided to offer Aldi Price a chance to play at The Luvvies. If he hadn't been sidelined at Scotstoun he probably wouldn't have gone. If Aldi wasn't in Franco's plans for the future then why wasn't someone else being lined up?

I'm thinking of signing on as a stand off at Scotstoun. Thompson, Meatball and The Lesser Spotted Miotti have less game time between them than Grant Shapps spent in any of his Cabinet posts.
Stand Off could be The General's real blind spot. He seems to want a hard running ball carrier and is happy to freeze out players who don't do what he wants. I don't see this ending well.

Losing Miotti to Oyonnax was a blow, then Price to Edinburgh and the injuries that followed. Tom Jordan is a great player and will do better with Horne back from injury. Hopefully Thompson will build some game time and be a regular starter at the back end of the season for Glasgow. Saying all this there is enough class in the Glasgow squad to win these tougher matches and they really should have done better last week and this weekend.

Edinburgh... ugh. It was a strong B side that put up a B side performance.

Great to see Russell and Redpath going well today for Barf. For me it would be mad to no have them starting 10/12 in the 6N.

bsando wrote:Losing Miotti to Oyonnax was a blow, then Price to Edinburgh and the injuries that followed. Tom Jordan is a great player and will do better with Horne back from injury. Hopefully Thompson will build some game time and be a regular starter at the back end of the season for Glasgow. Saying all this there is enough class in the Glasgow squad to win these tougher matches and they really should have done better last week and this weekend.

Edinburgh... ugh. It was a strong B side that put up a B side performance.

Great to see Russell and Redpath going well today for Barf. For me it would be mad to no have them starting 10/12 in the 6N.

It's hard to support Barf, but I thought Russell was very good today.

BigGee wrote:Kinghorn straight in as FB for Toulouse sgsingst Cardiff in the Champs cup this afternoon

It should be a pretty gentle introduction for him.

Really hope he goes up another level playing with so many superstars. Problem is he'll get plenty opportunity to work on what he's good at - attacking - but probably won't have much focus on the wider parts of his game given the way Toulouse play!

RDW wrote:

BigGee wrote:Kinghorn straight in as FB for Toulouse sgsingst Cardiff in the Champs cup this afternoon

It should be a pretty gentle introduction for him.

Really hope he goes up another level playing with so many superstars. Problem is he'll get plenty opportunity to work on what he's good at - attacking - but probably won't have much focus on the wider parts of his game given the way Toulouse play!

He scored twice, so it seems that the boy did fine.

George Carlin wrote:

RDW wrote:

BigGee wrote:Kinghorn straight in as FB for Toulouse sgsingst Cardiff in the Champs cup this afternoon

It should be a pretty gentle introduction for him.

Really hope he goes up another level playing with so many superstars. Problem is he'll get plenty opportunity to work on what he's good at - attacking - but probably won't have much focus on the wider parts of his game given the way Toulouse play!

He scored twice, so it seems that the boy did fine.

Not to rain on Blairhorn's parade, but didn't everyone score for Toulouse?

Yes, probably fair not to draw to many conclusions from that game!

I didn't manage to watch the Northampton game.

Why did the Weej get horsed on this occasion?

George Carlin wrote:I didn't manage to watch the Northampton game.

Why did the Weej get horsed on this occasion?

Mainly because they did not turn up till the second half and our half backs can't control a game!

Neither of those revelations should be considered startling!

Surely the Jordan experiment needs shelved now? How is Thompson, who is a good club player and knows how to control a game, not getting game time?

Get your scoreboard going in 7s yes but that doesn't stop you from putting your team in the right places to get those 7s!

BigGee wrote:

George Carlin wrote:I didn't manage to watch the Northampton game.

Why did the Weej get horsed on this occasion?

Mainly because they did not turn up till the second half and our half backs can't control a game!

Neither of those revelations should be considered startling!

Nope.

George Carlin wrote:I didn't manage to watch the Northampton game.

Why did the Weej get horsed on this occasion?

Because Northampton scored more points.

Doc!!! That's like saying Ophelia got wet because she fell in the river.
More in depth analysis to follow. ( see what I did there?)
P.s. the sight of Sean Kennedy trying to stop Courtney Lawes from scoring is the funniest starts to the pantomime season we've seen in years.
Oh yes it is!

jimbopip wrote:Doc!!! That's like saying Ophelia got wet because she fell in the river.
More in depth analysis to follow. ( see what I did there?)
P.s. the sight of Sean Kennedy trying to stop Courtney Lawes from scoring is the funniest starts to the pantomime season we've seen in years.
Oh yes it is!

Oh no it isn't!

So could the starting Xv against Bayonne be any better than the side that got walloped by the Stains?

1 Jamie Bhatti (93)
2 Johnny Matthews (57)
3 Zander Fagerson (133)
I'm thinking this is probably our best front row, Turner is better in the loose but Scouser scores more tries, McBeth and Walker have potential but are still babies, Kebble and Dell seem to be at the slippers and dressing gown stage.

4 Sintu Manjezi (15)
5 Richie Gray (106)
This pairing hasn't really worked, Sintu can't break into the back row but hasn't convinced in the second. Richie hasn't put in a really dominant performance for a while but is that because all the weight is being put on his shoulders? Unfortunately, Richie and Peterson don't seem to gel well. Cummings hasn't been as forceful as he can be for a while too, Samuels and Willamson , like Macbeth and Walker need time to develop. Groot has been missed.

6 Scott Cummings (111)
7 Rory Darge (37)
8 Matt Fagerson (99)
The best back rows tend to have an internal balance; the players al, have individual strengths but the trio is better than the sum of its parts. What is Glasgow's best back row? Certainly not this. Cummings will never, ever be a better 6 than Vailanu, Fagerson or even the Mullet. Again, Ferrie and Brown could develop into very good 6's but need time. I think The General focussed too much on putting out a BIG BIG pack to counter the typical English club stereotype when perhaps he could have looked at running them off their feet.


9 Sean Kennedy (28)
10 Tom Jordan (31)
Seriously!!! We need a scrum half as desperately as the Tories need a coherent philosophy. Kennedy reminds me of the advice I always gave colleagues who struggled in when unwell, "You'll do your best and fail because your not up to it and no-one will thank you for trying to do the impossible: they'll be too busy blaming you for everything that went wrong." He should be thanked for doing his best and given a full time coaching role. Jordan, and the team, is a victim of his own success. Like the other youngsters he should be getting the odd game and growing into pro rugby. Instead he's the fulcrum of the side. Except he's no more a 10 than Suella was a custodian of our democratic freedoms as Attorney General. He knows what the job is but doesn't really understand the true complexities of it. We need a real grown up 10 pronto. If The General is that unimpressed with Ross Thompson then he should get rid of him and invest in a decent 10. I'd rather he played him. Meatball's career is dying a slow death and it is horrible to witness.


12 Stafford McDowall (C) (64)
13 Huw Jones (61)
With Wee Shona and Tom Jordan we have as good a set of centres since Dunbar-Bennet-Horne-Vernon in their heyday. Except Jordan isn't played at 10 and Stafford will have to be rested before he breaks down and we're Donald Ducked if that happens.

11 Ollie Smith (36)
14 Sebastian Cancelliere (30)
15 Josh McKay (32)
Other than Rowe, who looks good and Seaman who is crocked there is no-one who is ready to step up. If Seba gets injured our back three will look an awful lot less threatening.

So for Saturday...
same front row.
Cummings-Gray
A balanced back row; Fagerson-Big Shona-Darge
Hornito (Afshar benching)
Thompson
Wee Shona-Shug
Rowe-Smith-Seba.