Glasgow and Edinburgh 30 - Starting the new season with 2 wins - Long may it continue

First topic message reminder :

Well both Scotland's pro teams got off the mark with a W this weekend, though probably fair to say that Glasgow's was slightly more pleasing on the eye!

Still not to be sniffed at and probably a while since it last happened.

A good omen for the season, let's hope so, though early season games are not always a predictor of longer term performance. Both sides still got plenty of players to bring back into the fold and a lot of improvement to make.

Roll on 2023/24!

EWT Spoons wrote:Edinburgh have signed 20 year old Leicester Tigers lock Rob Carmichael on a three-year deal.

SQ through his Glaswegian dad

Big lad (6ft10 I thought but All Rugby has him at 6ft11), plenty of potential, has played for England under 20s. Been playing Uni rugby and seemed to struggle to make an impact though Tigers have a number of locks and lock/6s coming through that have made it difficult for him, including last and this year's England under 20s captains.

Bulk him up a little and get him game time he could he handy. Should definitely help the Edinburgh lineout.

Montpellier showing an interest in Shuggy apparently. His firm in this 6N no doubt putting him into the shop window.

We won't be able to compete with them money wise for sure. Also with McDowell, Tuipolotu and Jordan around, he could possibly be a luxury we can't afford.

Apparently Rory Hutchinson is also OOC this season and looking for a decent contract. He could pissibly interest one of the Scottish clubs.

Rumours are linking Hutchinson with France (iirc Bayonne).

Get Hutchinson to Edinburgh! We're desperate for a classy centre.

Makes sense for Glasgow. We have Tuipulotu, McDowall, Jordan and HJ. Losing HJ and finding minutes for a couple of youngsters is probably a more affordable option.

Huw Jones is in his early 30s and this is his final shot at a big payday. He deserves it.

As for Hutchinson, hopefully he goes to France or stays at Northampton. I don't think risking it coming to Glasgow makes sense and Edinburgh have acquired Bennett and Lang (borderline internationals) only to do little for their development. Better for Edinburgh to develop Matt Currie than block his pathway.

So much for the speculation, Shuggy signs on for another couple of years with the Warriors.

That is some good bit of business, he would have been a player in demand!

Whoever his agent is must love playing the game every time HJ’s contract is close to expiration. Interesting U turn. Headlines are just speculation until pen hits the paper.

So much for my thoughts.

Guess the last time he left Glasgow might be in the back of HJ's mind

Wee Shona out for 10-12 weeks with linguine knee.

Team for tomorrow

1 Nathan McBeth (32)
2 Johnny Matthews (62)
3 Lucio Sordoni (25)
4 Max Williamson (8)
5 Alex Samuel (13)
6 Euan Ferrie (12)
7 Thomas Gordon (71)
8 Henco Venter (10)

9 Jamie Dobie (56)
10 Ross Thompson (45)
11 Facundo Cordero (1)
12 Tom Jordan (38)
13 Stafford McDowall (C) (70)
14 Sebastian Cancelliere (31)
15 Josh McKay (39)

Replacements

16 Gregor Hiddleston (2)
17 Allan Dell (7)
18 Oli Kebble (96)
19 Sintu Manjezi (17)
20 Ally Miller (24)
21 Angus Fraser (10)
22 Ben Afshar (7)
23 Duncan Weir (143)

Should be far too strong for the Bennetons.
Anyhoo, I've just finished booking tickets for Caz The Quiet Bok and myself to take in the Rugby Club v Sharks at The Home Of The Once And Future Champions..
Is the Dear Green Place ready for it?

Very tight game Edinburgh v Ospreys. Edinburgh really making things hard for themselves. Very blunt attack and messing up attacking lineouts.

Scrum completely dominant but can't do anything with it!

Nervy finish with ospreys camped on our line right at the end but we hold on.

Important win but again didn't really show anything in attack and may rue the BP that the ospreys got given how close they are to us in the league.

We had more than enough chances for a comfortable win and deny them a BP.

Another impressive performance from Harry Patterson but not much spark from the rest of the Edinburgh backs.

Still they ground out a win against a dogged old Ospreys team. There does seem to be some life in Welsh rugby yet!

Edinburgh have 1 try bonus from 8 wins - pretty dreadful. Glasgow are 7 from 7.

Trying to thinks positively though, despite that we are 8 from 11 and 4th in the table. Imagine what we could do if we actually had an attack....!

Everitt clearly has one target and that's to finish top 8, and he just wants to win games - winning well appears to not be a priority. It has been a regular occurrence for us to build a first half lead the just stop playing, often leaving us with a nervy finish.

The Everit era makes the solomons era look like the Harlem Globetrotters by comparison!

Yeah that sort of gameplan has to bring wins to keep the peace. So far so good and Healy is the right man to make that happen despite a few wobbles from him in a handful of games. 

I’m a bit more optimistic that Everitt will come good. As you say, he will be targeting top 8 and playing the long game with Edinburgh. With Mata leaving that will open up a bit of cash for a new signing or two. We could really do with an young Esterhuizen or someone who is a bit more dynamic in that centre field. Lang, Bennett, Dean, Currie, etc are all a bit samey. Something has to eventually give.

Was great to see Watson have a strong game, there’s life in the old boy yet. If he can retain his form at that level for the next few seasons he’ll hopefully see out his career on a high.

RDW wrote:Get Hutchinson to Edinburgh! We're desperate for a classy centre.

Fixed that for you.

If the Rugby Club achieve a five pointer today then the Luvvies will have lost more ground. Plus ca change, as they say in Stockbridge.

Does Matthew’s play the lottery?

If he doesn’t, he should start. If he fell into the sea he’d come out with fish in his pockets

Very good win for the Warriors in a place that not many away teams do.

With the fixtures they still have to come, they really have got to fancy a good league finishing pidition now.

So Blair Kinghorn appears to be one of Toulouse's frontline kickers. And he's been doing a decent job of it!

So, the Rugby Club have home fixtures against;
Cardiff, Sharks and Zebre. On current form that should be three wins and probably 15 points.
Away to;
Scarlets, Bulls, Lions and Zebre. I can't see us winning in Saarf Effrica. However two bonus points from those games would be a massive plus. Five points from Zebre is as close to a gimme as is possible. We have the beating of Scarlets, who are rank rotten at the moment. 12 points from those games is realistic.

So a possible 27 points to add to our 40 = 67 points.
With the MFL and other team already 6 or 7 points behind then I think we're looking safe for at least fourth place and a home tie. Weirdly enough on current standings we'd have Munster and the Luvvies would have Ulster. I think Ulster would be easier.

I'd say its in Glasgow's hands for sure. I do think your prediction for the SA away legs look a bit off. Honestly with the way the Bulls are playing I don't see Glasgow coming away with anything and stopping them getting a 5 pointer would be more likely but even that I'm not sure on. Lions LBP might be possible.

I'm not sure both Ulster and Munster will make the top 8. Munster's run in looks tricky. They have a SA away run at Lions and Bulls who both look pretty good at the moment. On top of that they have some of the stronger mid table teams. That last round tie against Ulster could be the difference between who gets top 8.

Ulster also look in a tricky spot.

Reckon either Munster or Ulster will probably be replaced with Stormers given they have 5 home games and their 2 away fixtures are against Connacht and Dragons which are both beatable.

Edinburgh were absolutely chronic on Friday night.  I’m not sure it was picked up quite so much on camera as the feeling in the ground was very different to how it came across on TV, but our inability to hold onto the ball was next level bad.  The only saving grace is that Ospreys were marginally worse.  To give them some benefit of the doubt it was snowing/raining and absolutely freezing on Friday night, so that might have played a part.

I don't know if it's the gameplan, but based purely on performances for Edinburgh, Healy has no business being involved in the Scotland setup.  He's brilliant from the tee, but every other aspect of his game is just meh.  Now it could be the gameplan, the players he's playing with, or he's not quite settled in yet, given he's been away with Scotland a fair bit since he joined the club, but Healy so far has not set the heather alight for Edinburgh.  However, I am also struggling to think of a 10 who's been anything other than average for Edinburgh in the last decade or so.

Are the Cuticle Shapers really 4th in the league? How did that happen? I must have passed out and woken up in an alternative multiverse where they're hoovering up try bonus points for sh!ts and giggles.

Ah but GC, there are only four points between fourth and tenth. So it could really go either way for them. They are away to; Stormers, Sharks, Cardiff and Benetton. I can see them losing all four of those. Their three home games are Scarlets, Zebre and Munster. Two wins there methinks.
However, their big problem is 2 Bonus Points from 11 matches. This is equal bottom of the league. Needless to say Glasgow are equal top with 8 BP's.
If I'm being generous they might collect another 17 points. 51 points would be way, way short of getting a home play off berth.
The Luvvies have a win loss figure of 8:3 which is exactly the same as The Once And Future Champions. However the team from the west have a points difference of +95 as opposed to the MFL's miserly +11.
Put bluntly; they don't score enough tries and when they lose they're not close enough to be competitive.
Given that they have half the Scotland team at the Library......something is seriously amiss.
Rory Darge must fall asleep grinning his head off every night when he remembers he could still be a Luvvie.

I’m a big Healy fan. VDW had a purple patch with Edinburgh but looked lost at sea for Scotland. Healy has shown up and performed for Scotland, he’s only going to get better with each season. Edinburgh have other problems that are beyond individual performances. 

Adjusting from the Blair expansive game to Everrit’s more pragmatic approach is going to take time by the look of things. Given the change in coaches for Edinburgh across the past five six years the players really just need a bit of stability. Cockers showed what a kick up the backside can provide. Everitt probably won’t be dishing out many of those but he could provide long term growth in the team, even after the inevitable departure of VDM who will surely find a big pay deal after his latest contract ends. That with Mata etc will free up funds and allow the coach to select the players who can bring this team on further. 

Fourth in the league in March is brilliant for me. Long road ahead but positive signs so far.

The worst kept secrrt in rugby - Rory Sutherland confirmed to Glasgow for next season.

A good move that should suit all parties

Jack Mann has also been rewarded with a full time contract. Ferrie- Brown- Mann-Darge- Miller, lots of young talent there. We should be well stocked in the back row for the foreseeable.
Rory Sutherland could be a fantastic signing. A two year contract suggests that he is fit and ready to go.
No word on Haircut though.

jimbopip wrote:Jack Mann has also been rewarded with a full time contract. Ferrie- Brown- Mann-Darge- Miller, lots of young talent there. We should be well stocked in the back row for the foreseeable.
Rory Sutherland could be a fantastic signing. A two year contract suggests that he is fit and ready to go.
No word on Haircut though.

Agree on the young talent in the backrow with the exception of Ally Miller. He turns 28 in May. Otherwise, Ferrie and Brown have both shown signs of being abrasive, tall blindesides that could make it to Scotland with some injury luck. Jack Mann could be the same at no. 8 as Dempsey ages out.

Fingers crossed on Hastings. Gloucester are a mess right now and he needs a place to build back up.

I'm hearing two whispers from Glasgow.
Shug has had surgery on his arm...may well be out for the remainder of the season.
Meatball looks like getting another contract.

Shug is a blow, especially as Wee Shona is still injured. This would suggest Jordan-Stafford as the centres. Which means Thompson probably starting at 10 with Meatball as back up. We may see Seaman at 13 with Rowe-McKay-Seba for the back three.
Losing ShugnShona at the business end of the season isn't great.

p.s. Tomorrow MrsPip and I are flying to the Dear Green Place is it will be 40 years since we met at Glasgow Uni Union. We'll be revisiting the battlesites for a few days. I just remembered that I have entered the draw for Tennants' Best Seats In The House for Friday's game. God help me if I win.

jimbopip wrote:
p.s. Tomorrow MrsPip and I are flying to the Dear Green Place is it will be 40 years since we met at Glasgow Uni Union. We'll be revisiting the battlesites for a few days. I just remembered that I have entered the draw for Tennants' Best Seats In The House for Friday's game. God help me if I win.

Jim - some vital questions:

1. Did you meet at the Beer Bar?
2. If so, was it called that when you went?
3. Did you attend Daft Friday together?
4. Did you attend the Debating Society? A weaker writer would already have made the dad joke that I always had you down as a pre-eminent master debater. Good job I can rise above that sort of thing. I went once and found everyone at the Debating Society categorically insufferable and wedged irrecoverably up their own wazoos. Never again.

I would also advise that you try Stravaign for lunch. From my experience, it's pretty much as good as ever.

1. In the Meat Market (jigging/disco place) upstairs after the Beerie.
2. It was always the beer bar. Even when Hastings Banda drank there.
3.We actually attended the centenary Ball together. A band on every floor and the snooker Hall open till breakfast.
4.NO!!!

The Thistle pod are claiming to have heard things (I think they went to school with someone in the Edinburgh/Glasgow/both team(s))

Apparently, Hastings is coming up to Glasgow (which I think we probably all expected to happen), with Weir signing a new deal and Jordan seemingly doing well enough at 10, means that Thomson might be in need to more gametime and they are claiming that he is moving along the M8.

If you’re not a Glasgow fan and look at it objectively, this makes sense given Edinburgh have Healy and that’s pretty much it.  Savela apparently isn’t coming back up the road.   However, if you are a Glasgow fan, then I can see this going down super well.

Could be absolute Love sacks, it’s just what they are claiming to have “heard”

Interesting that Meatball starts at 10 tomorrow and there's no place for Thompson at all.
Munn on the bench.

EWT Spoons wrote:The Thistle pod are claiming to have heard things (I think they went to school with someone in the Edinburgh/Glasgow/both team(s))

Apparently, Hastings is coming up to Glasgow (which I think we probably all expected to happen), with Weir signing a new deal and Jordan seemingly doing well enough at 10, means that Thomson might be in need to more gametime and they are claiming that he is moving along the M8.

If you’re not a Glasgow fan and look at it objectively, this makes sense given Edinburgh have Healy and that’s pretty much it.  Savela apparently isn’t coming back up the road.   However, if you are a Glasgow fan, then I can see this going down super well.

Could be absolute Love sacks, it’s just what they are claiming to have “heard”

That is a move that would make sense.

For whatever reason, Franco never seems to have been totally sold on Thompson.

It would be better all round to let him have a crack with the Luuvies

Yeah I think it makes a lot of sense (assuming it happens). If as expected Savala doesn’t come back, then Edinburgh have no one to cover for Healy, other than Cammy Scott, who’s probably not really a flyhalf, or at least not a long term option there.

If Thomson does come over and plays as we’ve seen him play in the past, then he could really put a challenge in to be Edinburgh’s starting 10. Healy’s fine but isn’t immovable from the 10 shirt. The only caveat to this is the coaches at Edinburgh. We play a forward orientated game, and whilst Thomson would likely get more gametime at Edinburgh, the quality of that gametime might be questionable.

Off topic, but Scott Steele is currently cutting about using a walker, I don’t think he will ever pull on an Edinburgh shirt in anger.

So all that time putting Savala ahead of Chamberlain comes to nought.

Thomson goes to Edinburgh who have a strong record of making the most of its 10s (/s).

The financial situation needs to get sorted by 2030. We are in desparate need of a third team.

Anyone know if Savala ever actually played for Northampton? (I think it was them)

He looked a promising enough player - shame if yet another young 10 has fallen out of the game in Scotland.

Hazel Sapling wrote:So all that time putting Savala ahead of Chamberlain comes to nought.

Thomson goes to Edinburgh who have a strong record of making the most of its 10s (/s).

The financial situation needs to get sorted by 2030. We are in desparate need of a third team.

I'd say neither Chamberlain or Savala were world beaters. Savala showed some promise with ball in hand (at times) but I don't think either are going to a massive loss to the Scottish game.

Aye, Edinburgh is where 10s go to die. As I mentioned earlier, he'll likely get more gametime, but the quality of the gametime is something he might need to consider.

RDW wrote:Anyone know if Savala ever actually played for Northampton? (I think it was them)

He looked a promising enough player - shame if yet another young 10 has fallen out of the game in Scotland.

It is Northampton and from their website, 1 start & 2 sub appearances.

He's only 23 so he could still come good

Glasgow getting a bit of a doing atm and you hsve to say Catdiff well worthy of their lead

They are playing into a gale but 13-0 is a decent lead

Weather absolutely awful at Scotstoun

Forget any talk about BPs, this is a game thst just needs to be ground out. Glasgow need to just roll up their sleeves in the second half

Well the significance of the wind is clearly apparent as with 13 mins of the second half gone Glasgow take the kead with two quick tries

14-13 Glasgow

Well for pretty unfathomable reasons, Cardiff decide to kick it out at no time, when chasing a 4 pt drfeceit.

Glasgow win 17-13

Not one for the history reals, but you got to take the points on sh1tty nights like this.

Duncan Munn made his debut with 40 secs to go, understandable in the conditibs and always good to see a new Warriors cap.

Kyle Steyn did not exactly deny that Adam Hastings was coming back in his interview either. I suspect we'll get that announced pretty soon!

BigGee wrote:

Kyle Steyn did not exactly deny that Adam Hastings was coming back in his interview either. I suspect we'll get that announced pretty soon!

He ain't staying at Gloucester that's for certain. Between to his season and last he's managed 16 games and one of those was an international. Not the return on investment that Glaws would have wanted for their marquee signing. Charlie Atkinson and Anscombe who are incoming will cost less combined.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

BigGee wrote:

Kyle Steyn did not exactly deny that Adam Hastings was coming back in his interview either. I suspect we'll get that announced pretty soon!

He ain't staying at Gloucester that's for certain. Between to his season and last he's managed 16 games and one of those was an international. Not the return on investment that Glaws would have wanted for their marquee signing. Charlie Atkinson and Anscombe who are incoming will cost less combined.

He definitely needs a reset, as well as a bit more luck on the injury front.

He may not earn quite so much on this next contract, but he may be managed a bit better.

Edinburgh gubbed away to Stormers. Not a surprising result but our performance was utterly woeful. It is no exaggeration to say we have the worst attack in the league - it's completely clueless one out passes. Weak defence, stupid mistakes, stupid penalties - just awful.

There is something really badly wrong with Edinburgh. They can never seem to find balance. I wonder if, like pre cockers and end of cockers reign, it's a cultural issue. Even when Glasgow were bad they were never that bad!

Edinburgh have struggled for years now to be anything other than a mediocre team.

There is a theory that due to Edinburgh being right next to Scottish rugby HQ, they are under far more scrutiny and questioning than Glasgow, who can go about their business without the same level of interference.

Not saying that this is the reason for the disparity between the teams, but something is amiss at Edinburgh and has been for years, despite changes of players/coaches/management, the only consistent is the location (excluding the season we travelled between myerside and Boroughmuir)

It just seems to draw the worst out of players somehow. Put these guys in any other environment and they quite often thrive, so where is it going wrong?

Edinburgh's recruitment, bill Mata and bofelli aside, is generally poor, and it can't be great for the young boys morale when they're stuck behind rank mediocrity.

There clearly needs to be a hard reset. They remind me a lot of Worcester. Always the middling team who should be doing a lot better than they were. They nearly succeeded with a reset under cockers but then went very quickly back to type. Is it just the professionalism of the club? Does it need part private ownership?

Regarding the recruitment, I actually don’t think it’s any better or worse than a number of other teams.

In some ways we’ve done well, it would be hard to argue that Schoeman, Duhan (first time round), the players you’ve mentioned and a number of others, aren’t really good signings, but we’ve also had some absolute shockers, I won’t name names, but I think anyone who has watched any Scottish rugby would be able to identify a good number of them.  During Solly’s reign it was particularly high in the Poopie column.

Whilst I was typing this out though, it occurred to me the biggest challenge we’ve had is at 9 & 10.  If you exclude Blair just due to how long ago he played for us, the best 9 we’ve had has been Laidlaw, who had his faults and would never be described as world class, but he was certainly a very good 9.

As for 10 well I genuinely can’t think of a 10 in the last decade who I would flag up as a being anything other than being average.  Healy might turn out to be good, as he showed flashes of it at Munster, but so far at Edinburgh he’s not been a player who I would hang my hat on.  Mind you with the way Everitt has the team playing I’m not sure any 10 could flourish.