Glasgow and Edinburgh 30 - Starting the new season with 2 wins - Long may it continue

First topic message reminder :

Well both Scotland's pro teams got off the mark with a W this weekend, though probably fair to say that Glasgow's was slightly more pleasing on the eye!

Still not to be sniffed at and probably a while since it last happened.

A good omen for the season, let's hope so, though early season games are not always a predictor of longer term performance. Both sides still got plenty of players to bring back into the fold and a lot of improvement to make.

Roll on 2023/24!

Wonder if Glasgow will unload some 10's now - Can't see them needing as many as they have on their books at the moment....

Welshmushroom wrote:Wonder if Glasgow will unload some 10's now - Can't see them needing as many as they have on their books at the moment....

Almost certainly means Thompson is off. Thompson is not rated by Franco, that much is clear with Weir consistently being picked ahead of him. Jordan will become the bench option with Weir third choice and a youth player acting as fourth choice (Unwin? Simpson? Townsend?). In the case of Unwin and Simpson, physically they look similar to Thompson which is not really in the Franco mold. The last thing Glasgow need is a journeyman NSQ fourth choice.

For Thompson, hopefully it is a move to Edinburgh. Assuming Everitt looks past the size issue, Thompson can back up Healy and have Cammy Scott as third choice. Savala is not coming back (which is a waste of all his development the last three seasons) and there is not a better SQ FH available. Knowing the SRU, they will sign an expensive NSQ instead.

Welshmushroom wrote:Wonder if Glasgow will unload some 10's now - Can't see them needing as many as they have on their books at the moment....

So we have; a 10 who's really a 12, a really promising 10 who can't get picked, a veteran who hasn't really been able to get a starting place ( but has managed to get a contract extension).

I try to go through life remembering Maggie Thatcher's comment about one of her Ministers, " Everyone else brings me problems; he brings me solutions." However, every now and then I go all Eeyore and look at the less than sunny side of things.

Before Friday's match at the Stoop I felt that Glasgow could but home advantage meant that Quins would prevail. Afterwards I felt that the main difference in the teams was Marcus Smith. He constantly kept the defence guessing and bought his backs just a little bit more time and space than Glasgow wanted to give them. This is what the best 10's do.

Jordan a real prospect at 12. It is almost unfair to criticise him at 10 because he isn't a 10. Unfortunately he is third choice 12 behind Wee Shona and Big Staff.

Thompson was forced into the first team because he was the only 10 available; had a tremendous season and everyone forgot that in rugby terms he was still at pre-school. In the long term Franco might be doing him a huge favour by refusing to play him....but

Meatball was he signed because we needed the average age of our 10's to get into the low 20's? One of my all time favourite Glasgow players but it's clear that Franco sees him filling the Sean Kennedy role from now on.

If Hasting's is the Seventh Cavalry and is our starting 10 then does Jordan bench as 10/12 cover, with Dobie as 9/wing cover. In which case what will become of Thompson? Will Jordan develop into the 12 he can be?

I don't think we have an excess of 10's.... I just don't see what we are doing with the ones we have.

It may just be that Glasgow are just a FH short of becomming a half decent team atm.

On that basis, I am very happy to see Hastings back, as he is, when fit and healthy, a quality player and maybe an older more mature version of the player who spooned an open door in the final against Leinster but going for the glory.

The other good thing is that he seems to be fit again and is starting for Gloucester tomorrow night. Hopefully he can gain some form over the rest of this season and tour with Scotland this summer.

BigGee wrote:It may just be that Glasgow are just a FH short of becomming a half decent team atm.

On that basis, I am very happy to see Hastings back, as he is, when fit and healthy, a quality player and maybe an older more mature version of the player who spooned an open door in the final against Leinster but going for the glory.

The other good thing is that he seems to be fit again and is starting for Gloucester tomorrow night. Hopefully he can gain some form over the rest of this season and tour with Scotland this summer.

Hastings has been pretty meh for Gloucester. Injuries certainly haven't helped but they are rumoured to be spending a good chunk on him and he's been a poor return on investment.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

BigGee wrote:It may just be that Glasgow are just a FH short of becomming a half decent team atm.

On that basis, I am very happy to see Hastings back, as he is, when fit and healthy, a quality player and maybe an older more mature version of the player who spooned an open door in the final against Leinster but going for the glory.

The other good thing is that he seems to be fit again and is starting for Gloucester tomorrow night. Hopefully he can gain some form over the rest of this season and tour with Scotland this summer.

Hastings has been pretty meh for Gloucester. Injuries certainly haven't helped but they are rumoured to be spending a good chunk on him and he's been a poor return on investment.

Any marquee player who gets injured and does not play is not going to be a good return on investment. It is however the nature of our game.

No-one is saying Synman is a poor player but Munster will be ruing the day they signed him.

No-one has a crystal ball unfortunately. I think Hastings had a pretty decent start at Gloucester but everyone just thinks he is a sick note now.

Good for all parties to start afresh.

Edinburgh team for the Sharks trip

15. Wes Goosen (26)

14. Jake Henry (3)
13. Mark Bennett (102)
12. Matt Currie (33)
11. Duhan van der Merwe (86)

10. Ben Healy (17)
9. Ben Vellacott CO-CAPTAIN (55)

1. Pierre Schoeman (109)
2. Ewan Ashman (13)
3. WP Nel (202)
4. Sam Skinner (20)
5. Grant Gilchrist CO-CAPTAIN (199)
6. Jamie Ritchie (108)
7. Hamish Watson (154)
8. Viliame Mata (132)

Replacements

16. Dave Cherry (87)
17. Boan Venter (60)
18. D’Arcy Rae (4)
19. Jamie Hodgson (59)
20. Luke Crosbie (94)
21. Ali Price (11)
22. James Lang (51)
23. Chris Dean (147)

Unavailable: Emiliano Boffelli (back), Darcy Graham (groin), Robin Hislop (knee), Harry Paterson (foot), Scott Steele (hip), Nathan Sweeney (groin), Glen Young (ankle).

On paper, it is an international quality pack with a good bench. The backs look pretty decent as well though having both Lang and Dean on the bench feels rather inflexible.

Would have rathered Everitt put another forward such as Sykes or Muncaster. Will see if they can play to their potential.

I think the Sharks at home will have too much for Edinburgh. Also not convinced their backline are clicking in attack or defence. Let’s hope it’s a close game this time but it could be all eyes on the URC by next week. 

Agree with you too sapling, a 6:2 split may have been better. Lang and Dean are much the same anyway. 

I see Matt Scott is a free agent at the end of this season. If he were to make a return to the capital we would surely have to jettison someone in the squad currently.

The talk is very much that Matt Scott is heading back up to Edinburgh. Whether that's playing or retiring I don't know. Apparently he wants to be close to family and there's possibly some business interests.

BigGee wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

BigGee wrote:It may just be that Glasgow are just a FH short of becomming a half decent team atm.

On that basis, I am very happy to see Hastings back, as he is, when fit and healthy, a quality player and maybe an older more mature version of the player who spooned an open door in the final against Leinster but going for the glory.

The other good thing is that he seems to be fit again and is starting for Gloucester tomorrow night. Hopefully he can gain some form over the rest of this season and tour with Scotland this summer.

Hastings has been pretty meh for Gloucester. Injuries certainly haven't helped but they are rumoured to be spending a good chunk on him and he's been a poor return on investment.

Any marquee player who gets injured and does not play is not going to be a good return on investment. It is however the nature of our game.

No-one is saying Synman is a poor player but Munster will be ruing the day they signed him.

No-one has a crystal ball unfortunately. I think Hastings had a pretty decent start at Gloucester but everyone just thinks he is a sick note now.

Good for all parties to start afresh.

All very true but his form since coming back from injury has not been good. If you're on a big whack, get injured then come back in iffy form it just doesn't tend to look good. Maybe a return back up north will help him refind some form. I can't imagine he's going to trouble the international selection unless there's a significant upturn.

Edinburgh fronting up so far against the Sharks in a brutally physical game. It's remarkable they're so far down the table given they have half the Springboks team.

Punishing game so far - can Edinburgh keep it up?

16-14 Edinburgh HT after a really strong half. Fronting up well against a brutal pack. Some maddening mistakes though - for some reason we've decided this is a good time to start showing some attacking flair in our own half which has led to turnovers and points against us on two occasions. Just get rid of the bloody ball!!

Game is definitely there for the taking!

All Sharks in the second half. Edinburgh scored two late tries to make the score 36-30 but never looked like winning after HT.

I was really impressed with our forwards but our backs basically could have been sat in the stands for all they did - they offered nothing in attack, which has been a regular problem for us all season.

De Bruin off to Newcastle at the end of the season

EWT Spoons wrote:De Bruin off to Newcastle at the end of the season

Whats he like? Physical and uncompromising?

Geordie wrote:

EWT Spoons wrote:De Bruin off to Newcastle at the end of the season

Whats he like? Physical and uncompromising?

Frequently injured during his time at Edinburgh.

De Bruin was a solid LH/TH for Leicester when he was stringing games together so will depend on that I suspect.

Geordie wrote:

EWT Spoons wrote:De Bruin off to Newcastle at the end of the season

Whats he like? Physical and uncompromising?

Very fond of the physio's table!

Wonderful...another sicknote.
Well lets hope hes over the injuries.

Geordie wrote:

EWT Spoons wrote:De Bruin off to Newcastle at the end of the season

Whats he like? Physical and uncompromising?

He's capable. Had a horrific injury whilst at Edinburgh, hence the comments about the physio, but he's a fairly solid player. He's no world beater, but he's capable of doing a job, probably as a backup for whoever the 1st choice is.

After initial positivity my sails have been fully deflated lol

Blarehorn scored 23 points as part of the Toulouse juggernaut which drove straight over the toes of Exeter at the weekend. They will be hard to stop in the semis. He must be having a great time over there.

https://www.theoffsideline.com/clark-laidlaw/

Did anyone else read this article? Found it a really inspiring read. Quite a journey he’s been on to where he is now, 7 from 7 for the hurricanes.

He was playing his cards very close to his chest there but you have got to feel he would be interested in the Scotland job a few years down the line.

You wonder where his cousin Greig might be by then as well, another Laidlaw who seems born to have been a coach and has not been afraid to travel the world for experience either.

Yes he certainly didn’t write it off and I was surprised to read the CEO of NZ Rugby and himself go way back. Although it would be great to see him as Scotland head coach in the future it’s quite impressive what he’s doing in NZ this season.

It does sound like Matt Scott nay well be heading jnto retirement at the end if this season.

Released by Leicester, Sean Everett said today that they had talked to him but that he was not coming to Edinburgh next season.

Maybe at 33 yesrs old he feels justifiably, that he has had enough.

BigGee wrote:It does sound like Matt Scott nay well be heading jnto retirement at the end if this season.

Released by Leicester, Sean Everett said today that they had talked to him but that he was not coming to Edinburgh next season.

Maybe at 33 yesrs old he feels  justifiably, that he has had enough.

One who never really fully got a chance to shine at his peak because we had Alex Dunbar dominating the position, then Horne tended to be favoured over him.

He's had a stellar club career though, and fair enough that he wants to retire now, centre is one of the most physical positions on the pitch so to make it to 33 is pretty good. All the best to him if he's called it.

I see on the Warriors social media feeds that; Seba, Dell and Thompson are all pictured. i wonder if that means they are all in the 23 for Friday.

Scottish Thistle podcast saying that George Turner is heading for Japan next season.

That might spell the end of his Scotland career as well, even though you would have thought he had a few more years and possibly a WC left in him.

Still, hard to begrudge him a payday, he has certsinly taken a bsttering over the years and maybe just fancies a change.

Turner has been a good servant for club and country, if occasionally a penalty magnet. Soon to be 32 but would have thought he could have made another RWC. May be thinking a couple of years in Japan may be easier on the body and the account before coming back for a final season or not.

For Glasgow, I assume Fraser Brown is finished leaving Matthews, Hiddelston and Fraser. Would argue the list is one short if Turner is off.

Richardson from the Sharks could be a good candidate if he is committed to his conversion from the backrow.

Glasgow team announced

McBeth - Matthews - Zander (Kebble - Hiddleston - Sordoni)
Williamson - Cummings (Manjezi)
M Fagerson - Dempsey - Venter (Miller - Gordon)

Horne - Jordan (Dobie - Thompson)
Tuipulotu - McDowall
Cordero - Rowe - Steyn

Sharks seem to have rested a chunk of their team as well, which does us no harm

Ali Price signs on another year at Edinburgh. Not sure that's a great move for either really. Is he really going to improve again at Edinburgh..? Suspect his market value has significantly fallen compared to 3 years ago though when he was a Test Lion.

BigGee wrote:Sharks seem to have rested a chunk of their team as well, which does us no harm

Very much mixed feelings about this; I'm travelling all the way up there and would have loved to have seen their star Boks, also thrashing their B team might feel like a Pyrrhic victory. And if we lose to them Caz the quiet Bok may not get out the stadium alive.

RDW wrote:Ali Price signs on another year at Edinburgh. Not sure that's a great move for either really. Is he really going to improve again at Edinburgh..? Suspect his market value has significantly fallen compared to 3 years ago though when he was a Test Lion.

Poor wee Ali heading into retirement via 3 or 4 seasons of mid table mediocrity at the Bookcase. What a way to end a great career.

RDW wrote:Ali Price signs on another year at Edinburgh. Not sure that's a great move for either really. Is he really going to improve again at Edinburgh..? Suspect his market value has significantly fallen compared to 3 years ago though when he was a Test Lion.

I think this is probably a waste of a contract.

Might seem harsh, but he’s far from the player he once was. Edinburgh could do with a decent 9. Vellacott, is fine, not great, but fine. Steele is unlikely to play for us as it seems injuries are going to rob him of a chance. Also, at 30 he’s hardly the long-term future of the role and I wouldn’t be surprised if he calls it a day sooner rather than later.

Sheil is quick but can’t control a game.

Price is slow, doesn’t seem to be able to control a game either, and has very much lent into box kicking whenever the ball comes near him, and not doing it particularly well. I’ll give him the same benefit of the doubt as Healy and this could be all related to gameplan, but it’s turgid and based upon results, ineffective.

I’d imagine Price will be on a decent wage, given he’s still an international and a B&I lion. Granted his stock may have fallen, but if there was any truth to the rumours of French teams being interested then he’s got some market value and the SRU would have had to make a suitable offer to keep him.

The problem for Edinburgh is who are they going to sign at 9?

Glasgow has handed them, on paper, the best fit for the style of play out of the stable of nines. It makes no sense sending any of the remaining four.

Are they going to try and sign Chapman from Gloucester or Warr from Sale? Why is Warr giving up a starring role at Sale? Chapman is more reasonable as Varney and T Williams will be at Gloucester but he is in the same mould as Vellacott.

Price wants to stay in Scotland and has pedigree. A full offseason training with Edinburgh and Healy may help. Vellacott has looked better recently and I think the question is more do Edinburgh need both Shiel and Steele. I would probably move on from one of them and look to sign a young nine like Frostwick to develop as a cheaper fourth option (or use one of the two academy SHs). At the minute, Edinburgh have too many SHs in their primes/late primes and no one coming through.

EWT Spoons wrote:

RDW wrote:Ali Price signs on another year at Edinburgh. Not sure that's a great move for either really. Is he really going to improve again at Edinburgh..? Suspect his market value has significantly fallen compared to 3 years ago though when he was a Test Lion.

I think this is probably a waste of a contract.

No, it's an inspired signing. Utterly brilliant.

It keeps The House Elf at the Home Of The Once And Future Champions.

Steele sounds like he is done unfortunately, career ending injury.

There are some promising 9s in the under 20s, Paterson and Lock, hopefully wither or both of them might step up.

I exoect Edinburgh may have to manage with Vellacott, Sheil and Price for the time being.

Hazel Sapling wrote:The problem for Edinburgh is who are they going to sign at 9?

Glasgow has handed them, on paper, the best fit for the style of play out of the stable of nines. It makes no sense sending any of the remaining four.

Are they going to try and sign Chapman from Gloucester or Warr from Sale? Why is Warr giving up a starring role at Sale? Chapman is more reasonable as Varney and T Williams will be at Gloucester but he is in the same mould as Vellacott.

Price wants to stay in Scotland and has pedigree. A full offseason training with Edinburgh and Healy may help. Vellacott has looked better recently and I think the question is more do Edinburgh need both Shiel and Steele. I would probably move on from one of them and look to sign a young nine like Frostwick to develop as a cheaper fourth option (or use one of the two academy SHs). At the minute, Edinburgh have too many SHs in their primes/late primes and no one coming through.

I don’t think Glasgow necessarily handed Price to Edinburgh, I suspect the SRU were the driving force, rather than Glasgow doing this out the kindness of their hearts.  Minor point I know.  Also correct it makes no sense in any of the others coming down the road, assuming they are going to get gametime at Glasgow.

Whilst a SQ 9 would be ideal, I don’t think it’s currently essential, given our current first choice 9 is not troubling international selection.  On that basis I would like us to sign a good 9, someone for the next gen to learn from, regardless of if they qualify for Scotland or not.

I would also agree we need to move on from having Steele (as I say never going to pull on an Edinburgh shirt), maybe keep Sheil in the role Sean Kennedy occupies for Glasgow and then have Vellacott as back up 9 to a first-choice lad coming in.

BigGee wrote:Steele sounds like he is done unfortunately, career ending injury.

There are some promising 9s in the under 20s, Paterson and Lock, hopefully wither or both of them might step up.

I exoect Edinburgh may have to manage with Vellacott, Sheil and Price for the time being.

Oh 100% this, my calling for a better 9 isn't going to happen, we've got a full compliment of 9s (as questionable quality as they are), we're not going to make a signing for this position. Can but dream though eh

Hazel Sapling wrote:The problem for Edinburgh is who are they going to sign at 9?

Glasgow has handed them, on paper, the best fit for the style of play out of the stable of nines. It makes no sense sending any of the remaining four.

Are they going to try and sign Chapman from Gloucester or Warr from Sale? Why is Warr giving up a starring role at Sale? Chapman is more reasonable as Varney and T Williams will be at Gloucester but he is in the same mould as Vellacott.

Price wants to stay in Scotland and has pedigree. A full offseason training with Edinburgh and Healy may help. Vellacott has looked better recently and I think the question is more do Edinburgh need both Shiel and Steele. I would probably move on from one of them and look to sign a young nine like Frostwick to develop as a cheaper fourth option (or use one of the two academy SHs). At the minute, Edinburgh have too many SHs in their primes/late primes and no one coming through.

Shiel has recently signed a new deal (again not overly based on his performances..) so I'm guessing Steel will be off.

Can someone explain how the TMO can come in and tell the ref that Dobie has stripped the ball on its way out of play tonight (because it is clear as a bell on the replay) and he should give Sharks the lineout (correct decision by the way).... yet in the Quins game Fagerson catching Care's arm is incorrectly given as a Quins' scrum for a Fagerson knock on and the TMO is silent despite it being clear as a bell on the replay?

Neither is foul play or a even a penalty yet in the Quins game the direct result was Tuipolotou in the bin for 10 minutes from the next move ....and 2 tries by Quins.

Tough old game for Glasgow tonight

A very different Sharks team ending the season from the one that started it.

Still, 4 pts in the bank for Glasgow and they will all count. Still everything to play for.

Glasgow looked like they took a couple of sore injuries as well, which is never good at this stage of the season.

Keeble looked in trouble, but maybe more importantly, with our depth at hooker slready stretched, Johnny the Scouser was helped off limping badly.

That might be important going forward, though Hiddlestone certainly stepped up when he came on.

I think the reffing played a large part in the momentum of the second half. Missed infringements, a clumsy challenge on sione that should have been a penalty, sharks definitely should have had someone carded end of the first half/beginning of second. I don't like singling out the referee as a game changer but he was really, really poor.

Decent win from Edinburgh in the end. I had my head in my hsnds at half time, but put the power on in the second half.

They are very dependent on having their best players on the fiekd though, currently a couple of injuries would finish them off.

Still, the play offs are still in sight if they can carry on playing like that.

Well we got there in the end which is the important thing. If we didn't get a BP win in this game then something really would be terminal in our attack.

Goosen had a great game and has had a great season - really showing his class after a quiet start last season.

jimbopip wrote:

BigGee wrote:Sharks seem to have rested a chunk of their team as well, which does us no harm

Very much mixed feelings about this; I'm travelling all the way up there and would have loved to have seen their star Boks, also thrashing their B team might feel like a Pyrrhic victory.  And if we lose to them Caz the quiet Bok may not get out the stadium alive.

Well that almost came to pass.
At one point the Glasgow fans started booing the ref; he had missed a forward pass that led to the Sharks scoring, but he was pretty woeful all evening, and they booed him during the TMO check and then again during the conversion. Cue a very loud Saffer telling the rest of the stadium that "This is not the way to behave! Stop booing this is not football." and LOTS more in that vein. Thankfully the Glasgow fans around us saw the funny side, took him to their collective bosom and ended up having a drink with us in the club house.

Surreal moment of the day... Nathan MacBeth did the post match appearance in the club house and he is probably the nicest, most polite, rugby player you'll ever meet. He came over to say hello to Caz and I and the two of them had a long, long conversation in Afrikaanse. Afterwards Caz was telling the Glasgow fans that MacBeth kept referring to him as "ooum" (pronounced wum) because in South Africa that's the respectful way to address friends of your parents/ the elder Jack and Victor types.

Apparently Turner may be moving to Kobe Steelers to link up with Mike Blair and Dave Rennie. That’s an interesting move. Wasn’t there a Scottish hooker at Leicester?