Glasgow and Edinburgh 30 - Starting the new season with 2 wins - Long may it continue

First topic message reminder :

Well both Scotland's pro teams got off the mark with a W this weekend, though probably fair to say that Glasgow's was slightly more pleasing on the eye!

Still not to be sniffed at and probably a while since it last happened.

A good omen for the season, let's hope so, though early season games are not always a predictor of longer term performance. Both sides still got plenty of players to bring back into the fold and a lot of improvement to make.

Roll on 2023/24!

Gutted I ended up stuck in work for both games, might watch on catch up/highlights.

Glasgow really have been a force this season. If they can sort the discipline they might just win it, but big competition for the top. The SA sides, though I was dubious at first, have really elevated the competition recently. How often do you see Leinster get a drubbing?

Edinburgh are the Schrödinger's cat of teams. Able to win and lose simultaneously. They may well come good but you do feel a stronger contingent needs to come through. They're where Glasgow were probably under lineen for the first couple years.

Edinburgh, to be fair never looked like losing that game and seem to have failed the flakiness down a notice the past couple of games

From where they were last season, you would have to say they have improved and are on a slow upward curve

Let's see what Everett can do with a bit more time

Look Gee, don't be kind to the Luvvies...be cruel to be kind. Kind of.
Our season could be wrecked by them. Either they fail to turn up for the Munster match and somehow this drops us to third and an away tie at Stormers.
OR
The squeeze into 8th and we top the table and face them at Scotstoun...

I can't even bear to think about how badly that could turn out.

So turns out Hoggy was in rehab! Not the drug kind.

https://www.instagram.com/p/C6UKgEGoqFF/?igsh=MWVxZWFuZzA5OGh2Mg==

It's good he's finally admitted his fault in things. For all his silly billy over the years (it's a word) he's still a human being and for the same if him and his family you hope he can pull it together and be more of a decent bloke.

We thrust these players into the spotlight at a very young age and literally shower them in adoration. It's no surprise that some of them go off the rails, particularly when all that is taken away from them.

Hopefully this is a real and genuine and not just his latest attempt to put a PR spin on things.

I am happy to give him the benefit of the doubt but remain a little cynical

https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/articles/c72pjjj819zo

For the Jimbos if the world not on Instagram

https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/articles/c72pjjj819zo

BigGee wrote:Hopefully this is a real and genuine and not just his latest attempt to put a PR spin on things.

I am happy to give him the benefit of the doubt but remain a little cynical

If a PR person has come up with that they need fired pronto. Not a hint of contrition, no apology, just a “woe is me I’m the victim here”

I wish the man all the best in his recovery and most importantly hopefully his kids can get a future that’s bright and not overshadowed by this.

Part of me agrees, in that it was very much I’m a victim, he does semi acknowledge he was in the wrong by saying he made mistakes, but on the flip side, he owes no one an apology other than his ex-wife and maybe his kids (not sure how aware they are of what’s going on).  If he wasn’t in the limelight, then this wouldn’t be news, and you wouldn’t expect some random punter making a public statement apologizing if they had done what Hoggy did.

It could be argued as a former national team captain (which seemingly he pushed for) that he is held to a higher standard than the rest of us mere mortals and must accept he is a role model for some. Therefore, he owes young impressionable kids making their way into rugby an apology for letting them down.  But an argument could be made either way on this.

Either way, I remain skeptical about the whole thing, as he’s not shown himself in a positive light and has come out blaming others in the past for his failings, which this seems to follow that suit.

Well I guess at least he did not have to get tasserrd in a Majorcian bar like Billy Vinupolo last night!

Lets not give him any ideas

EWT Spoons wrote:Part of me agrees, in that it was very much I’m a victim, he does semi acknowledge he was in the wrong by saying he made mistakes, but on the flip side, he owes no one an apology other than his ex-wife and maybe his kids (not sure how aware they are of what’s going on).  If he wasn’t in the limelight, then this wouldn’t be news, and you wouldn’t expect some random punter making a public statement apologizing if they had done what Hoggy did.

It could be argued as a former national team captain (which seemingly he pushed for) that he is held to a higher standard than the rest of us mere mortals and must accept he is a role model for some. Therefore, he owes young impressionable kids making their way into rugby an apology for letting them down.  But an argument could be made either way on this.

Either way, I remain skeptical about the whole thing, as he’s not shown himself in a positive light and has come out blaming others in the past for his failings, which this seems to follow that suit.

Yeah I have to say when I saw the post I was hopeful it'd have a different conclusion. Whilst social media is no doubt toxic and I absolutely believe he's been subject to vile treatment I don't think he can solely blame his personal shortcomings on that.

To be honest I think just staying quiet would be the best thing for Hogg. Apologise for the arrest publicly and leave it at that. He just keeps entrenching himself in this victim role which is not becoming at all. He doesn't owe us an apology for his personal life but he needs to prioritise correcting it himself and just staying off Instagram full stop.

Yeh its the need for public validation that irks me

You can even qualify your apologies by stating "I've apologised to those I've hurt and to those who see me as a role model, im sorry i let you down", that would have been fine, us average punters dont need or require an apology.

But framing it as "I've been so concerned about what people thought of me, how I was coming across... etc", whilst publishing on social media? Bleurgh.

Go away Hoggy or learn to park your ego. I've still got money on him moaning about being cancelled at some point.

The role model thing though in rugby, is that even a thing? The majority of people hardly know any rugby players at all. I'm guessing in 5 years only the most ardent fans will even know who he is?

So given the rugby players profile isnt that big do they really have any role model duties when they retire?

Welshmushroom wrote:The role model thing though in rugby, is that even a thing?  The majority of people hardly know any rugby players at all.  I'm guessing in 5 years only the most ardent fans will even know who he is?

I'm sure you're not meaning that literally but in Scottish rugby circles (not that big, I acknowledge) he is going to have a lasting legacy. He is a former 6N player of the tournament, Scotland captain and 3X Lion. He's probably the most high profile Scottish player of the 6N era.

And it's fair to say during his career, Scottish rugby has become far more mainstream in the nation and I bet a large % of the population know who he is.

He's going to be remembered for a long time. Just a shame it's now not just for his rugby!

Welshmushroom wrote:The role model thing though in rugby, is that even a thing?  The majority of people hardly know any rugby players at all.  I'm guessing in 5 years only the most ardent fans will even know who he is?

So given the rugby players profile isnt that big do they really have any role model duties when they retire?

Well its about role models for aspiring young rugby players. He was excellent to watch on the pitch and The Youth will follow him on his social media as a result. If you are a young man or woman having a role model involved in your personal interests is very common. Look at the worrying trend of young men who like up to Andrew Tate

So if Hogg is a role model, how he behaves in public can have an influence on young folk.

I'm not saying but even in Wales where a lot of people tend to be in the know on rugby players, if i were to ask the general public to name some starting players in the Galactico era when they won the league I think a lot locals would probably be lucky if they could name half a team and that entire squad were superstars of rugby (or at least in Wales). Probably the same if we did the same for Scarlets title winning year.....

Hogg probably has been the best back to come out of scottish rugby in the last decade or two if you dont count 10's. But even with him i wonder if in 3-4 years your average Scot knows who he is.....obviously anyone on these forums would but then I wouldnt class any of us on here as average in terms of rugby knowledge on players....

I don’t think we are talking about the avg. punter on the street though, because you are absolutely right, if I walked out into the middle of the street here in Edinburgh and asked about Scottish players 5-10 years ago, people would struggle.

However, if a child is picking up a rugby ball because they have been inspired to play, it’s most likely because of the like of Hogg, Warburton/Bigger/AWJ, Farrell, Sexton etc. Who they will have seen on their TV or from the stands, captaining/playing for their country/club.

To them they are likely their heroes who they will want to emulate. To these people rugby players can be and likely are role models.

So yes, the general public will forget about Hogg (and others of his generation) in a few years, the kids that were inspired to play because of him will likely look up to him in the hope one day they will captain Scotland.

The thing that annoys me the most about the Hogg statement - why also include a douchey headshot of him lookin all contemplative with a dark background. Just post the statement man!

Sometimes, less is more

I think he would be in a much better place if he could learn to live his life in private, much like the rest of us.

Get some help by all means, it does sound like he needs some. But you don't need to tell the world about it.

BigGee wrote:Sometimes, less is more

I think he would be in a much better place if he could learn to live his life in private, much like the rest of us.

Get some help by all means, it does sound like he needs some. But you don't need to tell the world about it.

Yep. Internet discourse can be brutal, no doubt. Twitter can be a cesspool. The 24/7 discussion loop is relentless. If the focus of that relentless discourse turns on you personally I can see it would be brutal.

It's also why we now have seemingly hundreds of live streams and podcasts that retired pros can pick up relatively easy pay checks from after playing. Without those forums and the online discourse, you don't have those. Hence I struggle a bit more there given the punditry world Hoggy seems intent on earning his corn from staying means trying to stay in that public eye.

There are other options for someone with the goodwill Hoggy has (maybe had for some?) from his time as a player. Do some coaching badges and just about any private school headmaster would cream their pants at the idea of being able to tell prospective parents that Scotland's most recognisable rugby players is their head of rugby.

I get that retirement is brutal for sportsmen. Your life and likely a lot of self worth from adolescence through early adulthood has been built around athletic prowess. When that fades and you're suddenly the slowest back in a RWC training camp, I can see how that would be brutal. There are ways you can help yourself though. Whereas it's obviously going to grate on folk in the rugby community if you deal with retirement by habitually (allegedly) cheating on your missus, then posting about being lost due to public discussion when the main thing that's been lost was apparently WOAH - edited

king_carlos wrote:

BigGee wrote:Sometimes, less is more

I think he would be in a much better place if he could learn to live his life in private, much like the rest of us.

Get some help by all means, it does sound like he needs some. But you don't need to tell the world about it.

Yep. Internet discourse can be brutal, no doubt. Twitter can be a cesspool. The 24/7 discussion loop is relentless. If the focus of that relentless discourse turns on you personally I can see it would be brutal.

It's also why we now have seemingly hundreds of live streams and podcasts that retired pros can pick up relatively easy pay checks from after playing. Without those forums and the online discourse, you don't have those. Hence I struggle a bit more there given the punditry world Hoggy seems intent on earning his corn from staying means trying to stay in that public eye.

There are other options for someone with the goodwill Hoggy has (maybe had for some?) from his time as a player. Do some coaching badges and just about any private school headmaster would cream their pants at the idea of being able to tell prospective parents that Scotland's most recognisable rugby players is their head of rugby.

I get that retirement is brutal for sportsman. Your life and likely a lot of self worth from adolescence through early adulthood has been built around athletic prowess. When that fades and you're suddenly the slowest back in a RWC training camp, I can see how that would be brutal. There are ways you can help yourself though. Whereas it's obviously going to grate on folk in the rugby community if you deal with retirement by (allegedly) habitually cheating on your missus, then posting about being lost due to public discussion when the main thing that's been lost was apparently EDITED

Gentlemen as you know I am a wordygeek and nothing makes me chortle like a well turned phrase that celebrates the beauty and subtlety of language. Let's all applaud King Carlos for discovering his inner poet.

 

That really, is all I want to say on Mr Hogg.

WOAH - sorry King but I've had to edit that!

As much as it was funny...

Btw an observation on that post - he's not exactly had an overwhelming show of support from the current rugby players. A handful liked his post - Price, Maitland, Gilchrist - but the only people to comment showing their support were the ex pros now involved in punditry. Usually when someone in the public eye admits they've been going through struggles they'll get a huge response.

He's maybe seen as a toxic individual for a current pro to be involved with.  That and their wives are probably telling them  
'he's dead to you now!' (I know Mrs RDW is raging on Hoggs ex wife's behalf, and a lot of the WAGs would have been close with her).

I still think it's hilarious that we look to high performing athletes to also be of exemplary moral character and role models in all other areas of their lives. Why on earth should that be the case?

On point, have a look at the new Neal Brennan special on Netflix - he has a very piece about exactly this. The best professional athletes all have mental problems - it is inevitable.

George Carlin wrote:I still think it's hilarious that we look to high performing athletes to also be of exemplary moral character and role models in all other areas of their lives. Why on earth should that be the case?

On point, have a look at the new Neal Brennan special on Netflix - he has a very piece about exactly this. The best professional athletes all have mental problems - it is inevitable.

Absolutely but if you're benefitting financially from the fans and you're arrested I think you need to at least properly apologise. You're right though most sports stars are by nature mildly sociopathic at the least.

Big game for Glasgow next round......win that and we could be talking about Glasgow topping the URC log by R18.

It’s like a gossip mag on here reading through all the posts regarding Hogg’s latest moment   Agree with the sentiment, he says he’s starting fresh after rehab yet he’s already shot himself in the foot by projecting that opinion to the world. Saying that, I’ve never been Scotland’s best rugby player with significant public profile and wealth. Being a huge part of Scotland’s national team for over a decade to suddenly retired is a big shift. He’s clearly figuring it all out and it’s not going to be as attractive on the eye as his line breaks were.

Yeh Bsando its an odd one - maybe its because Hogg was one of the true bright sparks in scottish rugby that really helped improve the national team from the dross served up prior to his appearance on the scene. We all hoped he would be this moral exemplar of a human being that would match up with his skill level as a rugby player and its just not true, which is disappointing as a fan - we want our players to be good players AND good people.

in the 00s or early 10s if we all found out that Rob Dewey was a sh*gging around as per Hogg we'd all go "meh, what a cant", but we'd move on after 5 minutes.

Maybe we just shouldnt invest as much time into the surrounding theatre of our national athletes but then thats half the entertainment isnt it?

Getting away from Hoggy for a minute, some rumours around that Tuipuloto Jr is heading to Edinburgh.

Once Glasgow fans get over the shock, it might make more sense, due to the lack of a centre vacancy at the warriors and such a lack of creativity in midfield over in the east.

Watch this one with interest!

To be honest, it would not matter if Edinburgh had Nonu and Conrad Smith with the current gameplan.

On paper, it makes sense if Tuipulotu Jr has the hard carrying his brother has. Being able to put Bennett in the H Jones role would give them a Scotland/Glasgow-lite version of an attacking plan even if Bennett is ageing and slowing down. I guess Currie will be asked to fill the role in a McDowall-esque way.

In practice, Edinburgh will once again fail an up-and-coming back through a regressive gameplan (tbf, Edinburgh don't do too badly on wings).

You would imagine the preferred centre pairing for Edinburgh going forward would be Tuipolotu and Currie.

McBurney going from Edinburgh to Connacht

Guess the contract offer was better as he was set to compete for third choice with Pat Harrison next season. Hopefully McBurney gets a chance to play more in his prime at Connacht

Danny Wilson being interviewed by media before a champions cup semi final fixture is quite a strange one to read. He was on a gradual downward trajectory in Scotland. Clearly wasn’t a terrible coach though. Funny how these things work out.

bsando wrote:Danny Wilson being interviewed by media before a champions cup semi final fixture is quite a strange one to read. He was on a gradual downward trajectory in Scotland. Clearly wasn’t a terrible coach though. Funny how these things work out.

I've heard from a few that he had a positive impact at Tigers during his short stint as a consultant last season. Really helped with the technical aspects of forwards coaching. The details there were lacking heavily when Borthwick left. He's got a good rep as a forwards coach. I'd have very happily seen him stay at Tigers in that sort of role.

His head coach stints at Cardiff and Glasgow were more mixed. It might be that working under Millard as DOR suits him better. With NEv and Bomb still there, he came into a relatively stable team too. Plus the Quins kicking and attacking strategies have been well set for a while.

Though losing Flannery was a big blow. He's an extremely highly rated defence coach as seen by Rassie recruiting him to effectively replace Nienaber and Felix Jones coaching the Boks blitz. I'd guess they'll try to recruit a more experienced replacement than Turner-Hall over the summer.

BigGee wrote:You would imagine the preferred centre pairing for Edinburgh going forward would be Tuipolotu and Currie.

Tuipolotu jnr has barely played for the Waratahs this season (if at all?) so it's hard to know if he's any good. He's built like his brother which is a good start.

RDW wrote:

BigGee wrote:You would imagine the preferred centre pairing for Edinburgh going forward would be Tuipolotu and Currie.

Tuipolotu jnr has barely played for the Waratahs this season (if at all?) so it's hard to know if he's any good. He's built like his brother which is a good start.

Yes it could be but of a punt. Remember when Tim Visser had his brother over for Edinburgh? Don’t he stayed too long. Different quality of player though. But the idea of tuipulotu jr walking into the team and smashing it seems pretty unlikely. It’ll have to be a long term project.

Kinghorn is starting ahead of Ramos on Sunday! Not bad going. I’d expect them to beat Quins but both great sides.

Oh and Hogg is a stalker now apparently. Dear oh dear.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/stuart-hogg-to-be-charged-with-stalking-report/

Oh dear Hoggy

The amount of cringe and horrible new revelations with Hogg... It almost makes you feel like McClean got a hard time (he didn't and absolutely deserved everything he got but you get my point).

As for M Tuipolotu... We'll see. He certainly was raved about in Australia as a youngster, much in the same way Burke was in NZ. Neither are known quantities really though. Wouldn't complain at another decent centre for Scotland and Edinburgh need a spark.

Hogg just needs to keep his head down now. And fecking behave himself

tigertattie wrote:Hogg just needs to keep his head down now. And fecking behave himself

Horses, stable door?

If anything it makes the, "internet people mean to me so I did the bad things", post look even worse. He'll have surely known about the court date before that was posted? Which makes an already questionable post read even worse given he's up on charges of stalking and abusing his ex-wife. The, "I'm the real victim here", undertones to that post leave an even worse aftertaste.

Apologies for the post that had to be redacted by the way, RDW. I may have had a few. I'm proud to have earned jimbos praise for my prose though!

BigGee wrote:

tigertattie wrote:Hogg just needs to keep his head down now. And fecking behave himself

Horses, stable door?

Aye but once they’ve bolted you don’t go chasing after them firing yer guns in the air. You STFU and stop digging bigger holes

The man was arguably the best 15 we’ve had and now he’s going down the route of being remembered more for being an utter twàt than his rugby abilities.

Horse? Stable doors?? Guns??? Bigger holes????

Are you in receipts if Scottish Government Metaphor Grant?

tigertattie wrote:

BigGee wrote:

tigertattie wrote:Hogg just needs to keep his head down now. And fecking behave himself

Horses, stable door?

The man was arguably the best 15 we’ve had and now he’s going down the route of being remembered more for being an utter twàt than his rugby abilities.

It will always be Andy Irvine for me!

BigGee wrote:Getting away from Hoggy for a minute, some rumours around that Tuipuloto Jr is heading to Edinburgh.

Once Glasgow fans get over the shock, it might make more  sense, due to the lack of a centre vacancy at the warriors and such a lack of creativity in midfield over in the east.

Watch this one with interest!

Edinburgh have just announced his signing on a two year deal.

EWT Spoons wrote:

BigGee wrote:Getting away from Hoggy for a minute, some rumours around that Tuipuloto Jr is heading to Edinburgh.

Once Glasgow fans get over the shock, it might make more  sense, due to the lack of a centre vacancy at the warriors and such a lack of creativity in midfield over in the east.

Watch this one with interest!

Edinburgh have just announced his signing on a two year deal.

Potentially a great signing if he lives up to the hype. Hope they have a good plan to actually use their backline next season! Need a good scrum half to come through to really enable that...

I thought Price has looked a bit more back to his old self the past couple of games, certainly the best he has looked for Edinburgh this season.

He has gone off the boil before then come back so hopefully he maintains his form this time.

He isn't that old either, still got several seasons left in him for club and even country.

Well Tuipolotu's highlights reel certainly looks good, although they all do. Mainly from Shute Shield level, which is the level below Super Rugby. Much higher level than Super 6 but still a big drop down from top pro rugby.

https://twitter.com/EdinburghRugby/status/1787419505053798516?t=r4JrCPI2DORdTudN6lR_lQ&s=19

Still there's no doubt he has the raw attributes - powerful and pacey. Good thing he's joining a backline renowned for its supreme attacking play....oh wait

BigGee wrote:I thought Price has looked a bit more back to his old self the past couple of games, certainly the best he has looked for Edinburgh this season.

He has gone off the boil before then come back so hopefully he maintains his form this time.

Not sure I totally agree with that, he played for 59 mins against Scarlets and for at least 40 of them he was poor. He had multiple kicks charged down, one of which directly led to a Scarlets try. I appreciate that for 40 mins near enough the entire team was poor and there was a lot of grumbling from the stands as they trudged off at half time. Vellacott made a difference when he came on.

In Cardiff he was marginally better but I would again say Edinburgh improved when he went off around the hour mark again.