The 2023 Cricket World Cup

First topic message reminder :

The ICC apparently changed the Champions Trophy qualification rules in March 2021.

It's just they never told anyone about it, never made a media release, and hence most teams were unaware of the alteration until yesterday.

I'll revise my question from yesterday to: Who on earth makes a change to the qualification format of a supposedly major competition and doesn't bother to tell anyone?

Think this one might leave a few more scars than the other KO losses

Head has had some luck. There's been the usual cuts from middle stump at, erm, interesting moments. There's been some top edges that hit the gaps. It's been by a distance the innings of the day though on a tough track. Kohli was faultless until the chop on but a ton chasing in a CWC final is some effort.

His recent ODI form is outstanding. That aggression up top is what really woke up this ODI side, got them playing more positively. A fun batter to watch and a likeable cricketer.

Australia should try and get this done in the next 6-8 overs. Boost the NRR.

With all apologies to KP Fan, this is actually going to be a pretty hilarious result given some of the goings on in this tournament. Wish I'd set up a business selling Rohit effigies in advance

Waiting for the urgent icc statement they were playing on the wrong pitch

Apparently there's a five match T20 series starting between these two, in India, in four days time.

I love cricket scheduling.

Was hoping to see Maxwell walk out in scuba diving gear and flippers.

Should probably remember that this was very nearly England's fate 4 years ago, and the players/fans don't represent the BCCIs machinations in this tournament

50 for Marnus

Won't get the headlines but a very composed supporting cast

VTR wrote:With all apologies to KP Fan, this is actually going to be a pretty hilarious result given some of the goings on in this tournament. Wish I'd set up a business selling Rohit effigies in advance

KP and I have had many a spirited discussion about cricketing minutiae over the years, not all of them ending in agreement. In fairness he is very aware of India's shenanigans through this tournament, often the first to point to them and is open eyed to the BCCI's faults.

There can certainly be a group of Indian fans who interpret people criticising the BCCI with those people hating all of Indian cricket. There seems a difficulty for some to separate the BCCI from the Indian team and fans. As if me criticising the ECB means I can't enjoy Joe Root's playing of spin. KP isn't one of those fans though. He's very aware of the administrations faults.

But, yes. There is certainly an amusing edge to this given so much has been tilted in the hosts favour at a, cough cough, ICC event.

Duty281 wrote:Apparently there's a five match T20 series starting between these two, in India, in four days time.

I love cricket scheduling.

I can't wait to see Ben McDermott, Matt Short and some bloke from 3rd grade who happened to be on holiday in India batting against the XI who will play most of India's bilateral games until the next world cup.

Well I did say Maxwell was a matchwinner...

Maxwell gets the winning runs. Well done Australia.

Poor Travis Head. He has to leave the field, just to run back onto it a couple of minutes later!

Quite fitting that this World Cup ends with a comfortable chase. A poor tournament, but I loved the ending, and Australia were deserved winners. India falling well short with the bat, and Head/Labuschagne driving their side over the line.

In a two horse race Australia won by a Head.

All in all, a great year for Australia. Winning the WTC and the ODI World Cup, plus retaining the urn in England. Couldn't have asked for much more.

India's drought goes on. The longer it goes on the more pressure builds up towards ending the drought, which makes it harder. It's starting to reach South African levels of concern whenever they get into a KO game.

Commiserations KP_Fan.

It was such a huge spectacle but it just didn't go to plan. You were right about the potential for India to fall at the last hurdle. That came as a bit of a surprise to me but I also had a feeling that the Aussies were pretty relaxed in the lead up and had done what was necessary to get to this crunch match.

Hats of to Travis. What a performance. That catch set the tone and he was also tidy with his couple of overs... but his batting application was something to behold. Yes, he had a few 'lucky' breaks but he found his groove and steadied the ship. I was mildly panicking after Smith's dismissal but that amazing partnership was textbook one day batting.

Think I need a break now at 3:00am and a good lie down.

Not often, if ever, I've been keen to see Australia win but today I was.

Must say I thought Cummins had got it all wrong bowling first and for a while it looked that way. Head's brilliant catch was crucial and the quick start Australia had with the bat meant the Head-Labu partnership could dig in without the run rate going too high.

Said earlier that India could have done with a bad result in the round-robin format when it wouldn't have mattered. Just shows that if you make the semis earlier form doesn't count and you're in with a shout.

Given the opposition, the pitch and the partisan crowd this could well rank as the finest World Cup final performance.

Was there, though, a touch of complacency among the Indians? After ten successive wins did they think they merely had to turn up to claim the trophy?

king_carlos wrote:

VTR wrote:With all apologies to KP Fan, this is actually going to be a pretty hilarious result given some of the goings on in this tournament. Wish I'd set up a business selling Rohit effigies in advance

KP and I have had many a spirited discussion about cricketing minutiae over the years, not all of them ending in agreement. In fairness he is very aware of India's shenanigans through this tournament, often the first to point to them and is open eyed to the BCCI's faults.

There can certainly be a group of Indian fans who interpret people criticising the BCCI with those people hating all of Indian cricket. There seems a difficulty for some to separate the BCCI from the Indian team and fans. As if me criticising the ECB means I can't enjoy Joe Root's playing of spin. KP isn't one of those fans though. He's very aware of the administrations faults.

But, yes. There is certainly an amusing edge to this given so much has been tilted in the hosts favour at a, cough cough, ICC event.

Yeah, agree with this, he's consistently vocal about the BCCI. I would fall into that camp too, big supporter of the England team, but the ECB is an embarrassing organisation.

I feel sorry for the true Indian supporters today, they were the best team in the tournament but anyone can lose a one off game. India might have more chance of winning something overseas away from the circus of pressure and expectation

Congrats to the Australians. Maybe not the best team but by far the most resilient. And that matters in these elimination games.

India, I'm afraid it's up there with some of the big all time chokes. Home tournament, by far the best team, (allegedly) pitches being prepared to order. Bowlers gave it a good effort but 240 was nowhere near par on this pitch. Aus lost early wickets but they also assured themselves of being "ahead" in the chase by getting off to a flier. From there it was more about managing their way home

GSC wrote:Congrats to the Australians. Maybe not the best team but by far the most resilient. And that matters in these elimination games.

India, I'm afraid it's up there with some of the big all time chokes. Home tournament, by far the best team, (allegedly) pitches being prepared to order. Bowlers gave it a good effort but 240 was nowhere near par on this pitch. Aus lost early wickets but they also assured themselves of being "ahead" in the chase by getting off to a flier. From there it was more about managing their way home

Yep, congratulations to Australia and especially their skipper Cummins. His captaincy has deservedly copped criticism at times but he was on the money today. In particular, his use of Maxwell, Marsh and Head as the 5th bowler combo was very smart and effective.

I couldn't be happier to see India lose, the tournament has been manipulated from the start to their favour and they still failed; when it matters most Rohit and Kohli couldn't produce innings worthy of winning a final. You can score 50 or 31 centuries in lesser games but finals are where it really counts.

Congratulations to Australia....they were the battle hardened rounded side
I might be the only one who picked Aus in PJ's competition....and that's a sad correct pick
It's sad to not be able to win World Cip yet again.....although we progressed one step further than 2015 & 2019....
From this squad, Virat, Rohit, Ashwin, Jadeja, Shami, SKY, and Shardul are unlikely to be around next time and as dust settles that would be a BIG regret for them especially Rohit, Ashwin, Jadeja Shami all big names and not a part of 2011 win ( Kohli was there)

To win a world cup a well rounded team should be good in all 5 aspects / dimensions viz.
Batting, Bowling, Fielding, Mental strength( including leadership strategy) and finally depth of batting / bowling.
India was totally missing in the 1 of the 5 dimensions and it wasn't the mental strength component.
It was depth in batting / bowling in the 11......and that they came so far was
a- they dodged the bullet
b, they were compensated by BCCI's pitch /influencing other factors that cannot be proven like toss, referee, performance of poorer teams needing BCCI grants and their players needing IPL contracts i.e BD, SL & Afg primarily

Had NZ gotten to bat first in the semis, India's lack of batting depth might have cost them the game.

I think the teams having all 5 dimensions covered were Aus, NZ and on paper Eng should have been the 3rd such side......but they didn't turn up.
SA, Pak lacked the leadership/strategy / mental strength part.

For India to have balance in the 5th dimension they needed a fit Pandya as the 5th bowler for Siraj....that would have given them 8th batter.
Depth in batting is like the fire extinguisher that you don't need to use every game.....but must have it the days it's needed .
For the next event India needs to look for bowlers who can bat.

On the game itself I think India understood their limitations & hoped to cover it thru tailoring the pitch. They believed that Aus will bat first if they won the toss and Ind would put them in if Ind won although Rohit said to the contrary.
Aus did not bat first and Ind lost 3 wickets too early and could not express themselves because they too knew they are missing the depth.
So from 80 in 10 overs they crawled to 200-5 in 40 to try and preserve wickets...i.e at 4RPO from 11 to 40 overs.
and then collapsed to 240 a.o in 50
Any other side with reasonable skill of & confidence in lower order would have gone at 5 RPO in 11 to 40 over and about 70 to 80 in last 10 with 5 wkts in hand
would have gotten to 300-310

Any-way no Pandya took away the option of balancing the XI with more batting & any side that's so dependent on one player for balance ain't gonna find it easy to win.
Going forward India needs to compose their XI with bowlers who can bat.

This is not the greatest Aussie side......but was covered in all areas of game better than it's opponents.

Pak's tour of Aus for tests and Eng's tour to India are the next big events worht looking at and not counting meaningless bilateral T20is

I feel that India was lacking in game awareness and grit a) in the batting after a good start they batted too conservatively - too many dot balls and not enough keeping the scoreboard moving, b) when bowling the fielding should have been brought in more to be ready for edges. Sometimes an edge would go for four because there was no slip fielder present.

At least the final produced a shock. Because the predictable win would've capped a pretty dismal tournament.

48 games and I'd struggle to remember 5 that didn't involve England. Most over just over the halfway mark with teams electing to try and reduce NRR damage. A group stage that lasts about 2 months and produced very little games of consequence and then the knockout games over in a week. And to throw it all in, qualification for the next tournament announced halfway through this one. And not mentioning some of the perks of hosting

It wasn't a tournament that did wonders for the future of the ODI format imo

Congratulations to Australia for a well executed and well deserved victory .

Confess I dozed off - was pretty satisfied they had it in the bag once they crossed 100/3. Indian bowlers just didn’t look threatening (and as KP_fan pointed out , Rohit wasn’t putting pressure on with close fielders.) To be honest , I was unimpressed with the Indian bowling from the start : seamers were trying too hard , gifting runs ; and if Warner and Marsh hadn’t gifted back their wickets Australia would have won even more easily . Major Shock was Smith - who never really thinks he’s out - failing to review . But no matter : Head did his thing and Marnus did his and it all worked fine.

As I say , well played Australia. But it has to also qualify as an Indian choke of South African proportions…they really should have mustered more than 240 even after the good players got out. Did have a feeling that the match was essentially decided when Kohli played on…I do feel a bit for him as he’s been massive in this tournament ; might have reasonably expected some of his mates to step up and do the heavy lifting this time.
Not perhaps the most riveting of all 50 over World Cups ; but had its moments - and a worthy winner in the end

Now we can get back to the meaningless bilateral white ball series

GSC wrote:At least the final produced a shock. Because the predictable win would've capped a pretty dismal tournament.

48 games and I'd struggle to remember 5 that didn't involve England. Most over just over the halfway mark with teams electing to try and reduce NRR damage. A group stage that lasts about 2 months and produced very little games of consequence and then the knockout games over in a week. And to throw it all in, qualification for the next tournament announced halfway through this one. And not mentioning some of the perks of hosting

It wasn't a tournament that did wonders for the future of the ODI format imo

I quite enjoyed it. The way it eventually panned out. I was pleasantly surprised but not totally shocked.

Maybe the group games dragged on a bit but if you ignored all the hype and pitch shenanigans and didn't look too far ahead (which is what I think the Australian players did), it all fell into place for them when it really mattered. Their seemingly casual air (a little put on for the audience I'm sure) and all the 'over-smiling' grated on me a bit but I suppose that's what worked for them.

It has happened before... a bit like '99 when Australia had a couple of early losses, had a wake-up call and then got their act together to win it. Something about 'backs against the wall' and 'nothing to lose' springs to mind for a team's motivation in such a scenario. It can easily backfire or slip away but also winning by small margins can further boost team confidence. I'm sure this is what happened in '99 and '23 in particular.

I wasn't 100% confident about this group (I still think there were a few obvious weaknesses) but they somehow scrapped their way through after losing to both India and SA at the start and it was that mixture of self belief together with a bit of luck that enabled them to achieve yet another title against all odds. Which is probably the way they would have liked it to all unfold.

By the way, I was very happy to see Dan Vettori quietly sitting there in the coaching group. It would have been fascinating to hear what advice he was proffering to the players. A top player, really nice guy and he deserves to be part of this success.

GSC wrote:At least the final produced a shock. Because the predictable win would've capped a pretty dismal tournament.

48 games and I'd struggle to remember 5 that didn't involve England. Most over just over the halfway mark with teams electing to try and reduce NRR damage. A group stage that lasts about 2 months and produced very little games of consequence and then the knockout games over in a week. And to throw it all in, qualification for the next tournament announced halfway through this one. And not mentioning some of the perks of hosting

It wasn't a tournament that did wonders for the future of the ODI format imo

I normally prefer 50 overs to T20, as there is more opportunity for momentum in games to swing, and tight finishes are generally at least as common, but this tournament has lacked many classic games or moments - Maxwell's double hundred to rescue Aus from an impossible position against Aghanistan the one genuinely great performance in an truly epic game, but otherwise there have been hardly any that came down to the last few balls / last wicket (was it Afghanistan v Pakistan that needed a 15 run 10th wicket partnership to see Pakistan home?)

I've no problem with the number of teams in the tournament - everyone had at least one good win, so were competitive in some circumstances. Not like the rugby world cup where the bottom 3 or 4 teams are just not able to compete at a meaningful level. However, the round robing section was too long and the knock-out phase too brief. Better to have two groups of 5 or 6 playing each other in group games, perhaps leading to an end-group play-off, say 3rd v second, then winner to play group winner, this deciding the finalist from each group.

How you get better matches though, I'm not sure - I think Indian conditions played a part, and a world cup in England, Aus or SA would be on wickets where more teams would be competitive and certainly more runs would be scred, but I think some of the issue ws that several teams just played badly in some matches.

Less group more knockout I think? Said at the start, 45 group games, of which a handful might actually really matter over 6-7 weeks, then 3 knockout games in about a week is a bit imbalanced. Even if some of the quarterfinals are David Vs Goliath there's still intrigue there, on anything could happen in a one off game sense. Whereas in the group there'll be another game to rectify it

I'd give the tournament a 3/10. It would have been a 2 had India won the final.

As bad a tournament as the coin-tossing T20 World Cup in the UAE, and the worst ODI World Cup since 2007.

Hopefully the new format, well a return to the old format of 1999/2003 actually, will make things a little better in 2027.

To me the disappointments of the tournament were:    

1- BCCI trying to play god & lead the tournament on a course of predetermination.
And doing so in an uncouth, crass way all the way until the end

2- Eng not turning up, disturbed the competitive balance of the entire world cup

3- And Sadly Pak's decline that I didn't realize had occurred until I saw them over a span of 9 games, And their case is different from Eng which appears to be more temporal.

The upshots of the tournament:    

1. Undoubtedly the rise of Afg into a credible side.

2. India's seam attack. For a nation that consciously & subconsciously still falls back to spin when in doubt, it was amazing quality at display.

3. Aus's resilience, spirit and ability to get on shutting out both external noise & taking cricketing hurdles all in their stride.

KP_fan wrote:To me the disappointments of the tournament were:    

1- BCCI trying to play god & lead the tournament on a course of predetermination.
And doing so in an uncouth, crass way all the way until the end

2- Eng not turning up, disturbed the competitive balance of the entire world cup

3- And Sadly Pak's decline that I didn't realize had occurred until I saw them over a span of 9 games, And their case is different from Eng which appears to be more temporal.

The upshots of the tournament:    

1. Undoubtedly the rise of Afg into a credible side.

2. India's seam attack. For a nation that consciously & subconsciously still falls back to spin when in doubt, it was amazing quality at display.

3. Aus's resilience, spirit and ability to get on shutting out both external noise & taking cricketing hurdles all in their stride.

Still not sure what hapened to England - definitely a better side than their performances even if not the team that won 4 years ago. Should have been there or thereabouts for the semi-finals but the batsmen just forgot how to bat.

As for Indian seam bowling, it used to be a joke that their seamers ran in faster than they bowled the ball (a comment commonly made by the bowlers themselves), but they now have some of the best both in ODI and longer form cricket. I think Bumrah must be one of the most difficult bowlers t get used to facing because his action is so unconventional and yet he still gets upt to 140 kmh+ off a minimal run up.

Interesting to see that streaming figures for the CWC have been high. ODI's are a format that lend themselves to the streaming model. It lasts forever with lots of breaks for ads which is how those broadcasters make their money back. Whilst there isn't the old issue of a channel being occupied for a full day, fitting in other programming.

It's still a big money spinner for the ICC. Money is often a dirty word in cricket but in the broken model we have the only funding that goes towards the struggling boards comes from ICC events. So from that purely economic perspective it's important that the biggest money spinner keeps spinning.

I'd prefer quarter-finals in the tournament. The thing that makes the CWC special is that the best team wont necessarily win. If we wanted to find the best team as objectively as possible then you play a proper league over two years, every team plays say 3 game series home and away, table topper takes the trophy. The randomness that tournament play and KO games inject is what makes it interesting. Two groups of 7 or 8, top 4 through to QFs. Or even have the table topper from each group go through to the semi directly. Then 2nd and 3rd play a 'QF' of sorts for the other two SF places.

Australia winning being a perfect example of why tournament play and KO games are fun. After the first two rounds the knives were being sharpened for Cummins and McDonald. They looked knackered in the field after such a big year. Their only spinner in Zampa was going round the park. Without Head the batting was looking pretty limp. In several games they seemed to be rescued by one bloke a game deciding to puff his chest out and do it off his d**k whilst his mates all got out. Marsh one, Head twice, Maxi against Bangladesh. That gigantic Warner and Marsh partnership was the one time I really felt like two Aussie batters looked like they were batting on the same pitch for a prolonged period. The rest seemed to be one guy smoking it to all parts India were by a distance the best team across the whole tournament. Yet Australia showed up and played a blinder in the game that mattered most.

Duty281 wrote:I'd give the tournament a 3/10. It would have been a 2 had India won the final.

As bad a tournament as the coin-tossing T20 World Cup in the UAE, and the worst ODI World Cup since 2007.

Hopefully the new format, well a return to the old format of 1999/2003 actually, will make things a little better in 2027.

Albeit I see it's been reported in the Mail that the BCCI and India's main cricket broadcaster are already trying to have that changed....

Honestly never been less engaged with a ICC World Cricket event - yes maybe England being awful contributed to that, but it was a total farce from start (and that means the ridiculous organisation beforehand) to end.

I find myself more and more these days across sports becoming a bit disillusioned with this strive and travel for perfection. This seeming crusade for "the best team must win". That's not what sport is to me, yes more often than not the best team will win, but sport is about jeopardy, it's about actually the best team not always winning, that is what makes knockout games so great...this format does pretty much everything within its power to nullify that. It has to be ditched as planned

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:...

I find myself more and more these days across sports becoming a bit disillusioned with this strive and travel for perfection. This seeming crusade for "the best team must win". That's not what sport is to me, yes more often than not the best team will win, but sport is about jeopardy, it's about actually the best team not always winning, that is what makes knockout games so great...this format does pretty much everything within its power to nullify that. It has to be ditched as planned

Yes, yes and hell yes. Sport with no jeopardy might as well be a training exercise. The best recent sporting events, other than Maxwell in the cricket (where one mistake would have meant an Afghanistan win), were the knock-out games in the rugby world cup - bar the NZ v Arg semi final, each game had the result in doubt until very late on, and in most cases right up to the final whistle. And I don't think the Springboks were actually the best team in the competition (still reckon France and Ireland are better, possibly also New Zealand), but they were the best at getting the results that mattered.

When we say best I think we have to factor in the ability to execute under extreme pressure. The greatest teams of all time have to mentally rock solid in addition to possessing skills on the pitch. This Indian team clearly didn't have that

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

Duty281 wrote:I'd give the tournament a 3/10. It would have been a 2 had India won the final.

As bad a tournament as the coin-tossing T20 World Cup in the UAE, and the worst ODI World Cup since 2007.

Hopefully the new format, well a return to the old format of 1999/2003 actually, will make things a little better in 2027.

Albeit I see it's been reported in the Mail that the BCCI and India's main cricket broadcaster are already trying to have that changed....

Honestly never been less engaged with a ICC World Cricket event - yes maybe England being awful contributed to that, but it was a total farce from start (and that means the ridiculous organisation beforehand) to end.

I find myself more and more these days across sports becoming a bit disillusioned with this strive and travel for perfection. This seeming crusade for "the best team must win". That's not what sport is to me, yes more often than not the best team will win, but sport is about jeopardy, it's about actually the best team not always winning, that is what makes knockout games so great...this format does pretty much everything within its power to nullify that. It has to be ditched as planned

True, and sadly not a surprise.

Would imagine the BCCI would love a straight league format with zero KO games. India might win a trophy then.

For a counter-view, The Telegraph has said that the 2023 Cricket World Cup was the second best Cricket World Cup of all-time, arguing that: "It was one of the best because of the amount of giant-killing that was done by the weaker teams. The qualifying stage started slowly, and the crowds were initially small in the afternoon sun, but the competition warmed up as soon as the upsets began. Netherlands beat South Africa, and Afghanistan won four games starting by humbling under-performing England. Afghan zest and physicality went a long way to compensate for the absence of West Indies. But although the semi-finals were absorbing it was not the finest tournament because the final was no nail-biter."

Not for me, Clive.

I see on Indian social media heart-break, hurt & despair is already giving way to hope to leverage their peak stars for one more shot at a world cup....stating in barely 6 months

It is scheduled to be hosted by the West Indies and the United States from 4 June to 30 June 2024.[1] It will be the first ICC World Cup tournament to feature matches played in the United States.[2]
20 teams will contest the tournament; England are the defending champions, having won the previous edition in 2022.

WI board is pliant to BCCI & US cricket is run by Indian expats.......means the pitches & rest of the paraphernalia will be "supportive"
IPL 2024 will finish on May 29th.....so Indians and others playing IPL will hit the ground running.

I read a Moeen interview where he was hopeful & expectant that most of the core of this squad will retained for the T20 WC also

I think the issue of jeopardy kinda shows up even there duty. Netherlands beat SA and it made absolutely no difference to where either team finished. Afghanistan had a brilliant tournament and went into the final round with little more than a punchers chance of making the semi finals.

Personally I thought the format for this ICC World Cup was dreadful.   It was over a month of a round robin tournament and by the time that finished most people had lost energy and interest in the very brief knockout phase.   It would have been better if qualifying was determined through some separate tournament or qualifying period and then had the top 8 compete in a knockout tournament.  If they wanted to extend the knockout tournament they could have best of three in the QF and SF building up to a one off final.