England ODI squad for the SL series

by ShankyCricket Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:14 am

We are naming the squad today at 9.00 am.

Plz pick your own teams guys.Lets have some discussion.

I would personally go for

Cook
Bell
Trott
KP
Morgan
Kieswetter(wk)
Patel
Bresnan
Broad
Swann
Dernbach

Reserves

James Taylor
Tremlett
Woakes
Rashid

by liverbnz Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:07 pm

I see Patel has earned himself a recall which can only be good news. He's about the only player that can add a bit of balance to the side. I still think they have a problem in the batting order. Cook, Trott and Bell in the same team doesn't work for me, although it looks like they'll be going with that one more time at least.

No place for Tremlett which is a surprise.

by Tibor Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:16 pm

the inclusion of Finn is also surprising.

How can the management drop him for being expensive and lacking control and then pick him for limited overs!!

It might just be an attempt to keep him around the set up.

As a Surrey fan, I really hope Dernbach gets a game or two.

by Guest Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:23 pm

decent squad been selected suprised that finn is in there though, and i no collingwood form been iffy but he just scored ton, and he can still do job in odi's

by **Fists of Fury** Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:27 pm

Finn is a poor choice in my opinion, certainly wouldn't start with him, far too loose and expensive.

Woakes is a better bowler to my mind, and I realise that may be a controversial one, but you only need to look at recent form, Woakes is a real wicket taker but with the ability to exercise a degree of control. He is also a fairly big hitter down the order.

by Guest Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:30 pm

woakes is a good pick and i think and its good patel is back.

by Mad for Chelsea Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:57 pm

don't agree with you about Woakes being a better bowler than Finn, but he's certainly a tidier one and less likely to leak runs in ODIs. Not a bad squad selection I think, and from that squad I'd probaly go for

Cook
Kieswetter
Trott
Kp
Morgan
Bell (hope he can make it work, otherwise Bopara)
Patel
Broad
Swann
2 of Anderson/Dernbach/Finn/Woakes (leaning towards Woakes and Anderson but prob rotate the quickies through the series so they're nicely rested for India)

by **Fists of Fury** Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:01 pm

Appreciate your opinion, chelsea.

I base mine on the fact that Woakes seems a more economical bowler, less likely to stray in line and length. He is also a wicket taking bowler and has had some impressive returns this season. Finn does have a knack of taking wickets also, but I feel that Woakes roughly matches him in this department, but outdoes him in the economy department, and that is why he would be my preferred choice.

by activereactive Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:07 pm

Pakora (Samosa) Patel has been included. Rolling Eyes

by ShankyCricket Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:20 pm

MFC

If Bell is going to play it has to be in the top 4.

Swap Bell and Kieswetter around in your order.

by chrisyeah Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:21 pm

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:MFC

If Bell is going to play it has to be in the top 4.

Swap Bell and Kieswetter around in your order.

Kieswetter is a opener, so he should open. I agree with you though that Bell should bat in the top 4, so if it was up to me, Bell would bat at 4 and Pietersen wouls bat at 5, since his record at 3 and 4 in the last couple of years is woeful and he has a great record at 5.

by Guest Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:22 pm

i wonder if they might do what they did in the world cup and maybe open with kp

by **Fists of Fury** Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:54 pm

Could do, it seemed to be working rather well at the world cup I thought and certainly had potential.

by GG Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:15 pm

You cant have Bell, Cook and Trott in the same team. One has to miss out and it wont be Cook or Trott. Having bell outside the top three would be a poor move.

by threeslipsandgully Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:38 pm

With Cook as captain I am struggling to balance the team from the squad selected. Trott Bell and Cook all have to bat in the top 4 and with KP and keiswetter there is not enough space for all of them which leaves us probably having to bat Bopra at 6/7 all with Patel.
I would go
Cook
Keiswetter
Trott
Kp

Morgan
Bopra
Patel
Swann
Woakes
Broad
Anderson

I would much rather see Buttler play instead of Bopra and Bell open and captain instead of Cook.

by **Fists of Fury** Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:40 pm

GG wrote:You cant have Bell, Cook and Trott in the same team. One has to miss out and it wont be Cook or Trott. Having bell outside the top three would be a poor move.

Not too sure I agree with this. Bell showed in his recent 60-odd not out that he can play all sorts of innovative shots, all around the wicket. He could play a useful role at number 5 if he can play in the same manner during the ODI's. Cook and Trott is a difficult one. Cook is the captain, so he plays, and Trott has been in great ODI form, so he also plays. The only real issue is that they are both the kind of players you would expect to bat through an innings, whilst more aggressive players do their thing at the other end - but what happens if they're brought together, who takes the aggressive role? Can either of them successfully carry out an aggressive role? We may end up stuttering along at 3 or 4 an over if this is indeed the case, and it is something we really need to address.

by Guest Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:09 pm

bell has shown in the test series that he can play quick innings if need be, he has to be a strong contender to be in the side

by Michaels, Sean Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:11 pm

Keiswetter will bat at 6 or 7

by Hoggy_Bear Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:26 pm

Michaels, Sean wrote:Keiswetter will bat at 6 or 7

Doubt it.

by Michaels, Sean Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:40 pm

Hoggy_Bear wrote:
Michaels, Sean wrote:Keiswetter will bat at 6 or 7

Doubt it.

KP and Bell are better candidates to open. Trott at 3. Then KP or Bell at 4, Bopara and Morgan 5 & 6.

by Guest Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:50 pm

kp and kieswetter will open

by **Fists of Fury** Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:54 pm

No chance, Cook is an opener if nothing else.

Cook and KP or Cook and Kieswetter, can't see it being anything else.

by Guest Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:00 pm

oh yh forgot about cook lol, cook and kieswetter opening, trott 3 kp 4

by dummy_half Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:16 pm

Don't see why people have a problem with Bell in the side - when playing well he's a clever manufacturer of shots and can score quickly without the need for huge power. Could do worse than watching a few old videos of Neil Fairbrother to see how to make it work.

Cook and Trott in the same side is perhaps more of a worry, although I'm not so sure when we are talking about games in England - seeing off the new ball and not losing wickets in the first 20 overs is more use than having 120 on the board but being 4 down.

by hodge Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:32 pm

Kieswetter will open imo, he has been chosen over Davies to try and give an explosive start to the innings to allow Cook to play a more natural game and get himself in to play some shots. Kieswetter has also been in good form so far this season in one day cricket.

by threeslipsandgully Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:05 pm

I have finally found the solution to the Cook problem. Bat him at 3 in a fluid order. If we get off to a flyer then he drops down the order and lets more naturel scorers in first. If we lose wickets earlier he can come in and drop anchor. He may be the captian but this does not mean he has to bat.

Really poor to select a captain that so unbalances the side even more than it is already is.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:47 pm

Woakes is a technicaly better bowler than Finn, but Finn is a more effective wicket taker. It depends what you want, Matthew Tait a great example iof how a destructive wicket taking bowler can completly reshape a limited overs game...Malinga too ( although Finns noit really in their class)
England have struggled to take wickets and really pressurise sides, their bowling has largely been about containment recently which has only gotten them so far.
Having said that Id still have Woakes ahead of Finn, if for nothing else he is a potentialy destructive batsman too. Having him Broad and Patel means you dont have to pick any dibbly dobblers nothing cricters like Wright and Yardy to "balance" the side.

Opener is always going to be tricky, Keiwetter has never done it there. But then noone really has. I think with Cook being new to the role youd rather have a proper batsman beside him, so either Trott or Bell. Either of those is going to have to step out of their comfort zone to do so though.

KP Swann Broad Morgan pick themselves

Cook
Bell
Trott
KP
Morgan
Patel
Keiswetter (mobile according to game situation as the destructive hitter)
Broad
Woakes
Swann
Anderson

A side based around proper cricketers with genuine batsmen and real wicket taking bowlers as well as plenty of variety to ask questions. No reliance on part time bowlers, but with a couple of guys who can chuck some balls down if needed.
Maybe if it was looking like a wet pitch youd want Boparas medium pace rather than Patels spin, or even as suggested Collingwood returning from the dead although I doubt England would want him now,...this is very much a fresh start squad.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:49 pm

threeslipsandgully wrote:I have finally found the solution to the Cook problem. Bat him at 3 in a fluid order.

So having neitehr opener as a specilaist opener is a solution to having Cook, and opener, open?
Im sure theres logic to that somewhere.

Why not just make Trotts role mobile?

Cook can bat destructively, Ive seen him do it. Theres was a period when noone could see Strauss ever batting more than 5 an over, till the world cup.

by crystal-purley Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:10 pm

For me
Cook
Bopara
Trott
Bell
Morgan
Kieswetter
Patel
Broad
Swann
Bresnan
Anderson

KP has lost it so Bopara who can bowl a bit too replaces him. There is enough batting in the squad to do without him tbh. Obviously Broad, Swann and Bresnan are interchangeable in the batting and Bell could move up or down the order depending on the situation.

by **Fists of Fury** Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:12 pm

crystal-purley wrote:For me
Cook
Bopara
Trott
Bell
Morgan
Kieswetter
Patel
Broad
Swann
Bresnan
Anderson

KP has lost it so Bopara who can bowl a bit too replaces him. There is enough batting in the squad to do without him tbh. Obviously Broad, Swann and Bresnan are interchangeable in the batting and Bell could move up or down the order depending on the situation.

I can only presume you didn't see his innings of 85 the other day, that was not the performance of a man that has 'lost it'.

by sonic_boom10 Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:33 pm

Kieswetter will open 100%.

England are hell bent on the w/k opening the batting.

KP will also play.

one of Trott or Bell won't play

by Guest Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:55 pm

trott will play, purely cos he has been in great form, i know bell has as well, but the selectors clearly like trott

by crystal-purley Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:11 pm

Fists of Fury wrote:
crystal-purley wrote:For me
Cook
Bopara
Trott
Bell
Morgan
Kieswetter
Patel
Broad
Swann
Bresnan
Anderson

KP has lost it so Bopara who can bowl a bit too replaces him. There is enough batting in the squad to do without him tbh. Obviously Broad, Swann and Bresnan are interchangeable in the batting and Bell could move up or down the order depending on the situation.

I can only presume you didn't see his innings of 85 the other day, that was not the performance of a man that has 'lost it'.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:18 pm

cricketfan90 wrote:trott will play, purely cos he has been in great form, i know bell has as well, but the selectors clearly like trott

Is there a law that says they both cant play?

Kp, Bell Trott, Cook, Morgan ..its only 5 specialist batsmen. I see Bopara as the most likley to be left out of they want Patel in the side. Trott still offers a medium pace option.

by Guest Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:24 pm

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:
cricketfan90 wrote:trott will play, purely cos he has been in great form, i know bell has as well, but the selectors clearly like trott

Is there a law that says they both cant play?

Kp, Bell Trott, Cook, Morgan ..its only 5 specialist batsmen. I see Bopara as the most likley to be left out of they want Patel in the side. Trott still offers a medium pace option.

im not saying that they both couldnt play, but look at the post above mine from sonic, im explaining the most likely circumstance that would happen if only one were to play

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:34 pm

OK I get that, but then same question to sonic_boom, theres no indication that they wont play both.
Trott was a monster run getter in the WC and has ben a legend in test cricket over the last 12 months. Bell too has been incredible since his recall, theres no reason why he cant continue this into ODIs.
Bell and Trott are two very differnet players, Bell and Bopara are both stroke players ...Id see it as much more likely a choice between them, with Bell the obvious winner. Bopara only got his chance in the world cup as injury cover, its not like hes a first choice player. Bells form is hardly likely to have changed that. Trott, KP Morgan and now Cook as captain are.
Really I see them likely to go down the India route and have an ODI side very similar to their test side.

The only issue is fitting in an opener, do they persist with the pinch hitter wicket keeper (which almost always fails to deliver for them) or shift a batsman out of his comfort zone.

by Mike Selig Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:43 pm

Cook will open, to suggest otherwise is wishful thinking. Kieswetter opens for Somerset doesn't he? I presume he'll open with Cook.

Trott at 3, you may not like it but his record is excellent and there's no way the selectors won't pick him.

Pietersen will play probably. Morgan is the finisher. That leaves 1 remaining spot in the top 6, which is a fight between Bell and Bopara. Bopara can't be guaranteed to bowl his 10 overs so if he wants to play (and in the absence of Collingwood - Trott is not really a viable bowling option) it has to be as a batsman. At the moment I think Bell is a far far better player.

Patel at 7 probably, but the selectors may go with 5 genuine bowlers.

Don't agree Woakes is technically better than Finn. Finn has a fine gather and left-arm tug. Agree he's more consistent but he can also go for runs. Think I'd go for Finn, just. Then Broad, Anderson and Swann, although expect rotations to happen.

My team:
Cook
Kieswetter
Trott
Pietersen
Bell
Morgan
Patel
Broad
Swann
Finn
Anderson

Worries: Cook and Trott together in a PP? Cook may prove me wrong but I don't see him as an opener in the modern one-day game.

The wicket-keeper: I think Davies has been harshly treated, but there we are.

Bowling options: if one of the bowlers goes the distance you're struggling. do you look to replace one of the batsmen with someone who can bowl more reliably (e.g. Bopara) or even pick 5 genuine bowlers (Broad, Swann, Woakes at 7,8,9 isn't too shabby)?

by liverbnz Wed Jun 22, 2011 5:28 pm

People seem to be quickly forgetting the WC where Bell looked desperately out of position coming in at 6. He doesn't suit the role of finisher, which is a role that ideally your numbers 5 and downwards should be capable of filling.

Bell is easily one of England's 11 best one day players, he just seems to be odd man out.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:09 pm

So who in the squad would play 6 to be a "finisher", other than Keiswetter. Please no more Luke Wright/Dimi types...for every time it worked it failed 3 or 4 more times.
Is Bopara any more of a big nitter than Bell? I dont think so. Morgan, Keiswetter, Pietersen of the senior batsmen are probably the biggest hitters. If one of those isnt around toward the end things have already started to go wrong anyway. If you have one of them opening rather than Keiswetter then you have still got him in the bag to come in as the situation dictates. Also theres big hitting available form Swann and Woakes, Patel can clear the ropes too (mostly to avoid having to run). Yes England dont have Afridi in the side, but its hbetter they have good players rather than trying to pretend bad ones are because they once hit a couple of sixes.

Ok you dont trust bell at 6, so dont play him at 6...make him 2 or 5. If youre talking about not picking him what are you replacing him with, either a bowler or Bopara...neither of which would be of anymore use as a finsiher than him. The squad is the squad, next time Gary Lineker is in the squad we can talk about a specialist finisher.

The only reason I see for Bell missing out would be if they feel the need for an extra bowling option on top of 4 specialists, Patel (who pretty much is a front line bowler) and some fill in form Trott/Pietersen. In which case Bopara gets in.

by liverbnz Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:15 pm

Making him open with Cook is the best option with this squad IMO. It won't happen though. A wicketkeeper must open for whatever reason. In a perfect world he'd open with Keiswetter and Cook wouldn't even be in the side, but that is not an option.

by sonic_boom10 Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:26 pm

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:OK I get that, but then same question to sonic_boom, theres no indication that they wont play both.
Trott was a monster run getter in the WC and has ben a legend in test cricket over the last 12 months. Bell too has been incredible since his recall, theres no reason why he cant continue this into ODIs.
Bell and Trott are two very differnet players, Bell and Bopara are both stroke players ...Id see it as much more likely a choice between them, with Bell the obvious winner. Bopara only got his chance in the world cup as injury cover, its not like hes a first choice player. Bells form is hardly likely to have changed that. Trott, KP Morgan and now Cook as captain are.
Really I see them likely to go down the India route and have an ODI side very similar to their test side.

The only issue is fitting in an opener, do they persist with the pinch hitter wicket keeper (which almost always fails to deliver for them) or shift a batsman out of his comfort zone.

Whilst I think Bell is a decent One Day player, his record isn't overly great. 1 hundred in 80 odd games?

Therefore I'd have Trott and ditch Bell.

I think both Bopara and Patel should play.

1. Cook (c)
2. Kieswetter (w/k)
3. Trott
4. Pietersen
5. Morgan
6. Bopara
7. Patel
8. Swann
9. Bresnan
10. Broad
11. Dernbach/Woakes (I'm undecided!!!)

by Guest Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:30 pm

i must admit for once i agree with sonic, trott over bell at the moment.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:25 pm

Which just yet again brings you back to the circular argument why not pick Bell and Trott rather than Bopara who is a poorer player and hasnt just spent the last year being one of the worlds best batsmen?
Bells ODI scores historicaly havent been too great but then neither have his test ones, on that basis would you not pick him for the india series? He was lucky to get his recall to Enbgland but has paid it back in spades in the test arena, theres nothing to suggest he wouldnt do the same in 50 overs or at least peform abetter than Bopara, who has a much worse ODI record.

The only argument would be to have a slightly better backup bowling option. If its looking like swinging conditions then without a collingwood I can see a strong case, but a guy who averages under 30 with the bat and bowls on avergae 1.6 each ODI is hardly Shane Watson / Jaque Kallis / Champion the wonder horse.

by Guest Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:10 pm

bopara is a good finsiher, and also offers better bowling than trott and bell.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:42 pm

I guess we are going to have ato agree to disagree on that. Yes hes a slightly better bowler than Trorr (, but as I pointed out hes barely ever used as a bowling option by England, and with 5 specilaists likely to be in the side the support bowlers arent goign to be there for anything other than fiddleing through a few overs

As for a finsiher he has the same strike rate with the bat as Bell, 72...hardly suggests hes a specialist blaster. The few decent end of innings score he made rapidly in the last couple of years have been against poor sides (Ireland, Netherlands and Bangladesh). The vast majority of his innings have been slow and low scoring. He has a poor record as a T20 player. Hes not a finsiher in the mould of Afridi or Pollard.
As I pointed out earlier England also have plenty of players in the lineup who can score rapidly and clear the ropes (Keiswetter, KP, Patel, Morgan, Woakes, Swann) . Bopara isnt a specialist finsiher, and such players are generaly a luxury in a side anyway... Yardy Wright Mascheranas...no thanks.

If theres a good chance his bowling is going to be needed theres a case for him, in which case it surely would be over Trott rather than Bell because Trotts trump card of bowling a bit becomes irrelevant.

A bastman who averages under 30 with a mediocre strike rate and who is rarely used as a bowling option is not vital to include. It certainly would only be because of the desire to have a spare seam option he would get in, a mistake England have made in the past.

by Mike Selig Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:04 pm

Agree 100% with Peter on the Bell/Bopara issue. IMO Bell is simply a better batsman whatever role you give him. He showed against Sri lanka he can improvise a bit as well. Morgan, Pietersen (if still in), Patel can all blast it.

Unless you're worried about the bowling (which I am) I don't see bopara fitting in. And even then, he's not a genuine all-rounder. Besides which I am against picking a side "in case things go wrong".

Trott has a fantastic record (inc good strike-rate), if you think he won't start you are deluding yourself.

by Guest Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:18 pm

Mike- im not deluding myself

i said trott will start over bell

by Hoggy_Bear Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:18 pm

From the squad chosen I'd reckon the best side would be:

Cook(c)
Kieswetter(wk)
Trott
KP
Bell
Morgan
Patel
Woakes
Broad
Swann
Anderson

by sonic_boom10 Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:36 pm

I think England will need the extra bowling options vs SL in ODIs.

Trott will be punished, even Herath had a slog in the 3rd Test vs Trott.

Bopara and Trott may be similar speed, but are different types of bowlers.

Make no bones about it, SL are a mighty fine ODI side and the more bowling options the better. Guys like Dilshan and Jayasuriya can destroy any bowler

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:31 pm

I dont know taht more bowling options has always worked well for England though. If they were guys who are real threats like Colli used to be then fine, or if they offer something genuinly different like Yardy did when not boohooing then fair enough.... but you need to justify your place in the side with one discipline, and Im not sure Bopara does that.
Extra bowling ioptions are a luxury not a neccesity unless youre in a situation like England often have been where you only have 4 proper bowlers and just assume youre going to fiddle 10 out of whoever. If the front 5 were doing the jobs they were picked for theres no need for the part timers to be used at all. Trouble is theres a temptation to fiddle some overs out of them just for the sake of it, its like Captains feel they have to be trying something rather than just letting their guys get on with it as they would in tests.
Englands bowling has suffered recently from simply not having wicket takling threats. Picking 5 proper bowlers, and several of them agressive ones, is a sign of intent. Sri Lanka are a good ODI side because they have a guy like Malinga who takes wickets in any conditions, not just beacuse they have a few players who cant bat or bowl properly. They are also blessed with truyely exceptional batsmen who can bowl fairly well too, something India benfit from too...and thats Englands big weakness area in all forms of the game. If we pick batsmen because they can bowl to a reasonmable standard they usually arent very good batsmen. The only plaer who bucked that trend was Collingwood, but for big chuinks of his career his batting desrted his bowling has become increasingly impotent.

If England feel Bopara justifies his place in the side on batting fine include him, Im just not convinced he does, especially not ahead of batsmen in exceptional form such as Trott and Bell.
Whichever two of the three do get picked will be required to bat, they may or may not be required to bowl. The batting is what they will be being selected on.
Of course England may throw a curve ball by leaing out KP, Morgan or Patel in which case all three could be in.

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