England ODI squad for the SL series

First topic message reminder :

We are naming the squad today at 9.00 am.

Plz pick your own teams guys.Lets have some discussion.

I would personally go for

Cook
Bell
Trott
KP
Morgan
Kieswetter(wk)
Patel
Bresnan
Broad
Swann
Dernbach

Reserves

James Taylor
Tremlett
Woakes
Rashid

Mike Selig wrote:Agree 100% with Peter on the Bell/Bopara issue. IMO Bell is simply a better batsman whatever role you give him. He showed against Sri lanka he can improvise a bit as well.

I knew someone would use this as a means of arguing Bell's inclusion at number 5 or 6. Different circumstances. Completely.

liverbnz wrote:

Mike Selig wrote:Agree 100% with Peter on the Bell/Bopara issue. IMO Bell is simply a better batsman whatever role you give him. He showed against Sri lanka he can improvise a bit as well.

I knew someone would use this as a means of arguing Bell's inclusion at number 5 or 6. Different circumstances. Completely.

So you think Bopara is a better number 5? If so fair enough (although I disagree strongly)... Australia had Clarke in the middle order for a long time, I think Bell is a somewhat similar player...

Mike Selig wrote:

liverbnz wrote:

Mike Selig wrote:Agree 100% with Peter on the Bell/Bopara issue. IMO Bell is simply a better batsman whatever role you give him. He showed against Sri lanka he can improvise a bit as well.

I knew someone would use this as a means of arguing Bell's inclusion at number 5 or 6. Different circumstances. Completely.

So you think Bopara is a better number 5? If so fair enough (although I disagree strongly)... Australia had Clarke in the middle order for a long time, I think Bell is a somewhat similar player...

First off, Morgan is England's number 5.

Secondly, I'm not Bopara's biggest fan, but I think we should persist with him through the summer at number 6 and see what he can offer. I think he is better at getting the ball into gaps than Bell, although I could be wrong, but I'd at least like to see.

Thirdly, Michael Clarke is a better ODI player than Bell - maybe not recently but in general, plus he had the likes of Hayden, Gilchrist and Watson in ahead of him, all explosive batsmen who usually had Australia off to a flyer. Then there was Ponting in at 3 as well. England have Cook and Trott. So England's number 5/6 position is not directly comparable to Australia's.

Ian Bell ODI ave 35 @ SR 72 1 100 18 50s Age 29
Michael Clark ODI ave 45 @ 78 6 100s 47 50s Age 30

liverbnz wrote:

First off, Morgan is England's number 5.

I'd put Morgan at 6 personally.

[quote="liverbnz"]
Secondly, I'm not Bopara's biggest fan, but I think we should persist with him through the summer at number 6 and see what he can offer. I think he is better at getting the ball into gaps than Bell, although I could be wrong, but I'd at least like to see. [\quote]

I disagree, but fair enough.

[quote="liverbnz"]
Thirdly, Michael Clarke is a better ODI player than Bell - maybe not recently but in general[\quote]

I was really making more a comparison about styles than records TBH.

[quote="liverbnz"]
plus he had the likes of Hayden, Gilchrist and Watson in ahead of him, all explosive batsmen who usually had Australia off to a flyer. Then there was Ponting in at 3 as well. England have Cook and Trott. So England's number 5/6 position is not directly comparable to Australia's. [\quote]

This is a very fair point. I think you are saying that England need more aggressive players down the order and can't have a batsman with a strike rate in the 70s there. I remain very unconvinced that Bopara can do better. Personally I'd like to see Taylor or Hildreth given a go.

Ah that quote thing didn't work... Sorry all.

I'm not totally convinced with Bopara either. His record is poor, but he has been yo-yo'd up and down the order so a summer of stability may help his cause.

Morgan is arguably England's best ODI batsman. Ideally he should be top 4, and if KP continues his dire ODi form he may soon be. Morgan at 6 would be a waste of his talents.

Morgan is a really good finisher for England so i'm not sure having him top 4 would be the best idea

morgan has to be 5 or 6, prefarbly 6

Morgan at 6 is wasted, especially considering England are pretty inflexible with their batting order during matches. He's England's best ODi batsmen and you don't want your best batsmen missing out because Trott and Cook have got you to 205-1 after 45 overs. He's rarely played lower than 4 anywhere else other than England and KP is the only reason he isn't number 4. That could soon change.

Morgan is our best finisher, therefore he shouldnt bat higher then 5 or 6.

I think Morgans about right for 5 or 6. Depends though, if they go nuts and pick Lumb as an opener then suddenly Keisswetter is coming in down the order as very much a big hitting finsiher.
You could say that any of our senior batsmen are wasted coming in at 6. All are capable of getting centuries, thats why they are in the side. Its why Im sometimes uncomfortable with the keeper opening, but if England stick with agressive start followed by Trott steadying things theres a logic. One of the middle order guys needs to make a big score at a reasonable rate...KP Bell Morgan (and Bopara if he plays)are exactly that kind of player. KP is always going to bat at 4, its a founding principle of any England side selection. As Morgans the better finisher of that gang he goes to 6 with Bell or Bopara at 5..or gets promoted depending on game situation/overs left.
Thats my thought anyway.

Looking ahead if KP did get dropped he would be the man to move up and take that role yes. But my gat would be flabbered if they didnt start KP in this game, especially as he finally listened to the batting coaches and made some test runs.

morgan has to stay at the finisher's sport he is so good at it

To be fair Bevan was the best batsman in the ausie ODI side, and probably in the world for a long time (and indeed has a claim to being the best ever ODI batsman) and he batted 5 or 6 mostly. Hussey who is currently Aus's best limitted overs batsman (possibly after Watson) bats 5 or 6 for them. Dhoni bats 6 for India. I think the number 5/6 finishing slot is just as key as the top 3 or 4, so having arguably your best player there makes sense as well (Pietersen was a very successful 5 for instance).

Kieswetter
Cook
Trott
KP
Bopara
Morgan
Patel
Woakes
Swann
Broad
Anderson

GG

that will most likely be the side

GG wrote:Kieswetter
Cook
Trott
KP
Bopara
Morgan
Patel
Woakes
Swann
Broad
Anderson

Swap Bopara for Bell and this will probably be the side.

I have a feeling that Dernbach may play ahead of Woakes after his mare the other day, I agree that Bell will play ahead of Bopara, he definitely should in my opinion. The batting is solid but we are heavily reliant upon KP and Morgan if we want a really big score, I'd quite like some flexibility in the order so much as if Kieswetter is out early get KP in and if Cook is out send in Trott so it's more of a like-for-like deal.