Question for you!

When David Haye lost in a shut out points victory to Wlad. a man with 3 stone on him. he came in at around 15 stone. The idea according to Haye and his team was speed, agility, and movement. Yet Haye did not seem to use the advantage he had over Wlad making it a vary easy night for Wlad.

Heavyweights coming in or around 15 stone is a thing of the past. Heavies are huge these days as we know but how would a young Cassius Clay do against Wlad. Clay's was a 15 stone heavy and would have the same advantages Haye had in terms of speed, agility, movement as well as being a little taller and possessing a superior jab. How do you think Clay would do against Wlad?

How would Clay get passed that stiff jab?

What would be the game plan remembering that Clay hardly went to the body opting for head shots. This means Clay would not fight on the inside but look to fight from long.

Can he still win?......I dont think so.

Clay's head and foot movement would be a nightmare for Wlad. He could pot shot him in and out quickly and eventually stop him Wlad is chinny Clay would stop him easily.

I still think Haye probably has the skills to beat Klitchko or at least give him a good fight but he didn't use them. Wasted opportunity.

For starters, Clay / Ali had more or less the same reach as Klitschko, and was certainly better than Haye when it comes to being able to slip and avoid the jab.

Ernie Terrell may have been lighter than Wladimir, but he had the same physical dimensions in terms of height and reach, and probably better footwork. Like Klitschko, he also could be a bit of a spoiler at times, never a crowd pleaser. The way that Ali conclusively beat him on the outside leads me to believe that he'd be more than capable of doing the same with Wladimir.

I think Ali's superior timing and speed mean that he could win the battle of the jabs, and once he's done that the fight is more or less his, for my money. Letting Klitschko chase him all night won't bother him; if anything, it plays in to Ali's hands. While most Heavyweights would need to get inside Wladimir's jab to beat him, there are a few who could outbox him at range, and Ali is definitely one of them.

alma chris I am talking about the young Clay who would come in at 15 stone or around that. Not the Ali that fought after the 3 year ban he would a bit heavier and imo beats Wlad.

Ernie Terrell may have been lighter than Wladimir, but he had the same physical dimensions in terms of height and reach, and probably better footwork. Like Klitschko, he also could be a bit of a spoiler at times, never a crowd pleaser. The way that Ali conclusively beat him on the outside leads me to believe that he'd be more than capable of doing the same with Wladimir.

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Good example but was'nt Terrel injured in that fight?

ali is a proven heavyweight with wins over some of the best opponents in the world that ever lived, and haye is a cruiser weight who won a few fights against opponents that could be described as over the hill. he managed to convince everyone (me included) that he was better than he was, but i dont think haye can be compared to ali, ali had better movement around the ring, had heart, dertmination and the will to win what haye was lacking. haye could get through when he tryed, but it wasn't often enough. for me ali would jump on wlad when he backs off or gets the chance and would be running wlad around ragged when he isn't.

the pre fight build up would be a hoot as well

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:
Good example but was'nt Terrel injured in that fight?

He certainly was by the end of it, ONETWO! Not as far as I'm aware - you may possibly be thinking of Cleveland Williams who was basically tipped, full of shotgun holes, out of a hospital bed and into the ring to face The Greatest at his matchless best. Terrell was a bona fide challenger in the physical pink, who was drubbed, to put it kindly. Ali in those days had the ability to pour in five and six-punch combinations from long or medium range without taking anything himself. I could see him dizzying Wlad with such tactics and concluding matters relatively early. Something like a TKO 7 would be my best guess.

Terrel suffered an eye injury in that fight he said so in the Facing Ali film.

captains right I think Clays combination punching from long or medium range would be too much for Wlad. I just dont think it would be easy as Clay was not an inside operator.

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Terrel suffered an eye injury in that fight he said so in the Facing Ali film.

captains right I think Clays combination punching from long or medium range would be too much for Wlad. I just dont think it would be easy as Clay was not an inside operator.

Yes, I saw a video where he claimed Ali had ploughed three fingers into his eye-socket in some sort of Kill Bill style attempt at tearing his eyeball out. He never did say how a man wearing boxing gloves could put his fingers into someone's eye socket but I guess The Greatest isn't held back by little things like what is and isn't physically possible.

If he suffered the injury in that fight, ONETWO, it would have been as a direct result of Ali's punches, rather than anything else. I'm in no way convinced that full vision throughout the fight for Terrell would have interrupted the one-way flow of traffic.

interesting perspective onetwo. Most would say pre vitnam ali was a much better fighter than 70's ali.

I can see where you're coming from but my view his that 70's ali, all too ready to take his punishment and stick it out, would be shipping a lot of leather from wlad, making it a tough night. I see late 60's ali picking him off all night at range. Wouldn't be easy though.

Give me strength...No the greatest couldn't get past the jab.....

Vlad is the best ever.....just ask Sanders.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Give me strength...No the greatest couldn't get past the jab.....

Vlad is the best ever.....just ask Sanders.

And Haye, Peter twice, Chagaev, Ibragimov, Chambers
Spellcheck : Wlad*

They're no Frazier or Foreman though are they YT

Imperial Ghosty wrote:They're no Frazier or Foreman though are they YT

That's not Wlad's fault though is it IG?
Wlad is a quality operator, he's proved it, what is he meant to do go dig Ali,Foreman up

Young_Towzer wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:They're no Frazier or Foreman though are they YT

That's not Wlad's fault though is it IG?
Wlad is a quality operator, he's proved it, what is he meant to do go dig Ali,Foreman up

Ummm...

They are alive.

Foreman was up for it a few years ago and from even suggested he could beat Wlad aged 60, wouldn't put it past that right hand either

It's not his fault per se but to me he's yet to prove himself as a quality operator nor is he ever likely to, his brother did have the advantage of facing Lewis against whom he did fairly well for 6 rounds in which he proved himself more than Wlad has in his whole career.

I think that's a very harsh evaluation of Wladimir there, Ghosty. Fair enough if you don't think he's proven himself to be a 'great', but surely he's done at least enough to convince you that he's worthy of 'quality operator' status?

I can't agree that Vitali winning four of six rounds against Lewis before losing on a cut is worth more than Wladimir's ten successful title defences for the IBF and unifications with the WBO and WBA. I dare say that Wladimir, in his form of recent years, could also have given an overweight, ageing and unfocused Lewis a pretty good argument, too.

That's where I have to disagree, Lewis even in that shape would have got rid of Wlad in double quick time, I don't see how he competes against someone the same size as him, chances are we would have seen a more aggressive Lewis than the one we saw against Vitali.

To me a quality operator is a great fighter, Wlad is not a great fighter

spell check Wlad*

You know the kid goes out of his way to wind people up....

and then writes...."you've been reported" if anybody gives him abuse....

It's pathetic.....

Chagaev and Peter.........Yes forget Frazier and Liston etc I mean what quality..

Comparing Clay to haye, its disgraceful, Ali was a natural HW was faster than haye both hand and speed, more accurate. I'll keep going on how Alid would have destroyed Klitcshko and Haye, but can't be bothered

My point was Clay was a 15 stone heavy and I think thanks to captains view that he was more apt at fighting from long then Haye.

Wasn't calling you pathetic.....

16 stone in the 70's......

Comparing Clay to haye, its disgraceful, Ali was a natural HW was faster than haye both hand and speed, more accurate. I'll keep going on how Alid would have destroyed Klitcshko and Haye, but can't be bothered
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Clay was 15 stone as was Haye. We all except Haye was too small for Wlad and anyway Ali was a light heavy in those days.

16 stone in the 70's...
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Thats in the 70's im talking about the young Clay who beat Liston.

Well he'd get past the jab by doing what he did best.....using his footwork, head movement, feinting often...and drawing the lead....

Like the great fighter he was.....

Think you've answered your own question there onetwo, the Ali who beat LISTON, the same Liston with a better jab, more power and a longer reach than Wlad.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:spell check Wlad*

You know the kid goes out of his way to wind people up....

and then writes...."you've been reported" if anybody gives him abuse....

It's pathetic.....

Chagaev and Peter.........Yes forget Frazier and Liston etc I mean what quality..

Everyone who doesn't share the same view as you isn;t trying to wind you up or as you everyday brand me for not sharing the same view as you 24/7 'pathetic', i have reported you and hopefully the mods/admin deal with it. You have to many aggressive based insults and must be treat the same as the likes of me who would be hung out to dry if doing the same. Ciao

Wlad gets beat imo, but if Wlad let's the right hand go and lands you never know, as I'm sure he is capable of doing, his jab looked very good against Haye but not really agressive enough he'd have to become more of a warrior and really take it to Ali if he wanted the win which I think he's capable of with the size difference but Ali would be too good imo... Wide-ish points UD

Fists of Fury wrote:Would you two like to stop before you get yourselves in hot water again? This is your chance, think before you type.

I won't be getting myself into hot water over nothing, i haven't branded someone pathetic or said there trying to wind someone up, i've merely reported them. Back to topic on my behalf as i said it's not Wlad's fault it isn't a golden crop of heavyweights, you can't box Larry Holmes every week.

No, he can't box Larry Holmes every week but fighting someone of Ali's standard IS a ridiculous jump from the guys around nowadays in HW.

spell check : Wlad*

That isn't an intention to wind someone up is it???

Look I'm cool I won't say anything else..

To be fair, he's right, it's Wlad.

hit and run....bet your favorite fighter was Greg richardson.

Wlad.

Hit and run? I'm still here.

Unfortunately for you TRUSS, I know you value my posting, so I wont take it to heart.

To be fair it's....won't

You missed a full stop, Truss.

Who's side are you on????............

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Who's side are you on????............

Who's side are you on...?
(Full stops before question marks Truss...!)

'Whose'.

American dictionary guys......it was invented straight after we slaughtered you in the War of independence..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:American dictionary guys......it was invented straight after we slaughtered you in the War of independence..

English language Truss, the language you decided to steal from us?

AlexHuckerby wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:American dictionary guys......it was invented straight after we slaughtered you in the War of independence..

English language Truss, the language you decided to steal from us?

Not so much steal as weren't bright enough to invent their own. Nearest they got was removing letters from words to make them easier to spell.

Right that's it...you're all reported!!!

I know you're too much of an alpha male to report anyone, that's for the inferior types.

Are you being serious...?
Trussman wrote:

American dictionary guys......it was invented straight after we slaughtered you in the War of independence.. .

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Think laughing about all the murdered Brits in the revolutionary war is slightly worse than anything we said... Woops...

AlexHuckerby wrote:Are you being serious...?
Trussman wrote:

American dictionary guys......it was invented straight after we slaughtered you in the War of independence.. .

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Think laughing about all the murdered Brits in the revolutionary war is slightly worse than anything we said... Woops...

Pedantic but Truss had it right when he called it a war of independence. It wasn't a revolution as there was no change in the system of government, just who did the governing.