Wales Team for the first England game

First topic message reminder :

Im hoping Gatland doesnt go down the Gareth Jenkins route and pick an under strength side, so I dont expect to see too much experimentation. My teams for the warm ups from the squad, giving as many people who stand a chance of being on the plance a go but hopefully strong enough to get momentum, I would play the best team against Argentina. Now whilst I personally wouldnt have bennet anywhere near the squad gatland likes him so.....

England1/ England 2/ Argentina
1. Paul James/ Gethin/ Gethin
2. Matthew Rees/ Rees/ M Rees
3. Craig Mitchell/ Adam/ Adam
4. Bradley/ Bradley/ Bradley/
5. AWJ/ AWJ/AWJ
6. Lydiate/ Lydiate/Lydiate
7. Warburton/ Tipuric/ Warburton
8. Delve/ Faletau/ Delve
9. Mike Phillips/ Tavis/ Phillips
10. Hook/ Stephen Jones/Stephen
11. Aled Brew/ Shane/ Shane
12. Gavin Henson/ Henson/Henson
13. Roberts/ JD2/ Roberts
14. North/ North/ Halfpenny(if fit if not North)
15. Byrne/ Stoddart/ Byrne

16, Burns/ Bennett/ Hibbard
17, Gethin/ Bevvington/ Paul James
19. Ryan/ Charteris/ Mitchell
20. Faletau/ Delve/ Ryan
21. L Williams/ Peel/ Tavis
22. Priestland/ Scott Williams/Hook

Now I fully expect people to scream hook shouldnt be on the bench in our best team, but I expect Jones to be first choice OH. Yes Ive given Henson enough time to play himself in or out of the squad, I would like to see more of Peel but I think he is done for as far as the World Cup is concerned, also cant see JT or Powell really coming back into the reckoning.

at the moment I think Gats probably has his thirty almost nailed down, a lot depends on halfpennys fitness and also wheher hibbard will be ready, whether to take Nuggett for one last hurrah or take Tipuric which I think is a really tight call. I also think if Henson is showing any sort of form he will get the nod.

I expect Gats to go for a 16-14 forwards backs split so the squad is gonna look a lot like this imo

Props

Gethin, Mitchell, James. Adam

Hookers
Rees, Hibbard/Bennett/Burns

2nd Row

AWJ, Bradley, Charteris

Back Row

Lydiate, Warburton, Delve, Faletau, Ryan, Martyn Willams

Scrum Halfs

Phillips, Tavis, Williams

OH

Stephen Jones, Hook, Priestland

Centres

Roberts, Henson, JD2

Back 3

Shane, Halfpenny, Byrne, North, Stoddart.

TycroesOsprey wrote:[
Honestly I just want to see Henson play well. The fact that there hasnt been much news on him other than one article in the western fail is to me good news. He isnt in teh gossip columns, he isnt on telly all the time or in hello leaving nightclubs etc etc etc ad nauseum. If that means he is immersed in rugby then we may just get the best of him. If not then JD and Roberts can do the job in teh centre

I fully expect him to retire from Rugby after the world cup, I just hope that we see Henson play his best at the world cup before he goes off to whatever reality programme he has planned next.

I think he has one already lined up doesn't he, I just think he wants to be famous and be a rugby player. But is going about it in the wrong way going on reality telly instead of putting in great performances on the pitch. He does get me angry does that Mr Henson. He annoys me more than the likes of Powell, when he isnt training and is giving time to relax he takes it too far but I have no doubt when he is training he is completely immersed in his rugby. I dont think that with Henson.

TycroesOsprey wrote:

nottins_jones wrote:"I would play the best team against Argentina."

That's where we fall out.

I'd leave the experimentation until playing the weakest team, Argentina. England are the best side we'll be facing who are also a similar team to one of our world cup opponents. They're also the 6 Nations champions, a win against them is a must. But we still need a bit of rest before the RWC, which is why i'd make some wholesale changes for Argentina; do you care if we lose to them? They're a shadow of what they were in 2007 and won't make it out of the group stages in this years tournament.

I dont suggest playing an experimental side nottins_jones I think the sides Ive chosen are capable of beating the English. The problem I have with us picking our "best" line up for either game is Im not sure what our best team for the world cup is going to be until after the two england games. That will give us the Argentina game to give that team a good run out before South africa three weeks later. At the moment there are still too many questionmarks over players. Are Hibbard or Halfpenny going to be fit? Is Faletau or Delve our first choice 8? Do you take Martyn Williams. Is Henson going to be ready? all of these questions wont be answered until after the two England games.

I think we must treat these games as tests but we wont see our first choice team until the Argentina game. I would bet the team picked for Argentina will mirror the team chosen to play the boks.

I see your point. Why don't we start with something like Paul James, Matthew Rees, Adam Jones, Bradley Davies, Luke Charteris, Dan Lydiate, Sam Warburton, Ryan Jones, Mike Phillips, Stephen Jones, George North, Jon Davies, Jamie Roberts, Morgan Stoddart, Lee Byrne. Subs, Gethin Jenkins, Bennet or Hibbard(depending on Gatladns mood), Alun Wyn Jones, Turnbull JT or Delve(again depending on Gatland), Shane Williams, James Hook, Rees or Lloyd Williams.

That's basically our strongest squad though isn't it? I'm saying lets give the likes of Henson, Priestland, Scott Williams, Lloyd Williams, Aled Brew, Delve, Turnbull the chance by starting them against Argentina. Perhaps we could try a different front row too. The likes of Gethin and Craig Mitchell may be back to full fitness by then.

p.s. Why did you leave out Luke Charteris entirely? Our best 2nd row on current form in my opinion.

I agree with the charteris point. To stick with the same 2nd row for the 3 games, especially as Bradley and alun wyn have hardly been in great form. Charteris always seems to take stick when playing for Wales, but his work rate i's always imense. V the ba bass. WOSunday gave him a 5/10 and the rugby paper a 7/10 and said he was one of wales' better performers.

Tycroes,

So for the last game you wuould go for

Jenkins Rees Jones
AWJ Davies
Lydaite Delve Warburton

Phillips Jones


Shane
Henson
Roberts
Halfpenny
Byrne

For me that would be about right depending on how Henson goes, I think we will see R Jones start at least two though one in 2nd row one in back row

bedfordwelsh wrote:
Jenkins Rees Jones
AWJ Davies
Lydaite Delve Warburton

Phillips Jones


Shane
Henson
Roberts
Halfpenny
Byrne

I'd nearly start that in your first match if possible.

Red,

I think that against the Pumas then we should go in with what Gatland sees as our strongest team which that pretty much is

Surely we should be thinking about units, so trying to keep 1st/ 2nd choice plans together.

1.Jenkins
2.Rees
3.Jones
4.Ryan Jones
5.Charteris
6.McCusker
7.Williams
8.Faletau
9.Phillips
10.Hook
11.North
12.Roberts
13.Davies
14.Brew
15.Byrne

Am I the only person thinking Henson should be nowhere near a team????

Our second row is a major concern.AWJ is being picked on form from 2/3 years ago.Bradley on last year.Charteris keeps doing it but seems to be ignored.I see Ryan and Charteris as an effective unit.Am I mad?

I wudnt be surprised if he gives Charterris and R Jones get a run out but I thought AW was getting back to his best towards end of season with the O's and hopefully Davies will rise to challenge as well

Surprised Henson i's considered our strongest centre. On what basis? 2008? Delve also. I agree that he's better than sideways jones, but I'd be surprised if gatland picks delve. I hope I'm wrong, but very surprised. Gatland picked Powell ahead of delve 18 months ago.

mog,

We all know (like it or not) that Gatland will give Henson as much game time as possible and if it comes off then he will play.

Delve would be in my side any day of week but agree Jones will start some games at 8

What is the aim of these games for Wales, is it;
1 Determine the 30 squad players i.e., filter out the weakest players?
2 Determine the best team of 22 players i.e., play the strongest team and tinker with three or four players over the three games?
3 Determine an A team and a B team to use all squad players?

The problem with option 1 is, we will be wasteing game time with players that should already be illiminated, the team should already be down to 34 or better 30 before the first game, what have they been doing the last 4-6 weeks, the numbers are going back up (Delve, Powell, J Thomes, Peel, K Owens and Andrews)!

Option 2 IMO is the most logical to work towards the 1/4 finals as we will build a team over the three games with a good understanding within the team and we may even develop some set play moves lacking during the 6N!

Option 3 is probably not an option for Wales as we are in a strong group and we don't have the strength in depth. It would be the best option if Wales are to go on in the competition i.e., the A team won't be over played and not battered physically before the 1/4 finals etc. It may be an option for one game.

There may be other options but I feel it is too late for option 1 i.e., using these games as trials we need to hit the road running in the RWC.

Glam,

No2 should be the option I agree then field what he sees as his strognest against the Pumas which as you should should include Delve at No 8

It's all about form we don't really have a clue who is on form or not at the moment. The players we considerd to be off form last season could have regained their form by now,
The next couple of weeks will give us a better idea who is and who is not match fit.

Yep hold up my hand and say I should have given charteris a start, I do see him as on the plane. The problem I see with charteris playing with Ryan is that hes so much taller and it can unbalance the scrum.

the team bedford put up is my best xv depending on form but I would go so far as to say this is our best 22

Jenkins Rees Jones
AWJ Davies
Lydaite Delve Warburton

Phillips Jones


Shane
Henson
Roberts
Halfpenny
Byrne

reps

Paul James, Hibbard, Ryan, Faletau, lloyd Williams, Hook, North

leaving people like, Burns, Mitchell, Charteris, Nugget, Priestland, JD, Stoddart, Tavis as backup in case of injury and for the namibia game.

I have a sneaky feeling the two lloyds, williams and burns are gonna get on the plane espescially if hibbard doesnt make it.

Now that you mention the Namibia game... Should we make any changes for that one? Surely it couldn't backfire against the weakest and most disadvantaged team in the competition...

God i hope not

wales should play the strongest possible xxii for the away summer test and aim for an away win.

tinker a little for the home game.

for the 3rd test wales should start the back up players- faletau, preistland- and have some experience on the bench.

we should aim to beat eng twice and use arg to give the back up players game time.

More often than not what happens in these games is that a country plays what it thinks is its first team at home. It then sends the '2nds' to the away games because the management want to see who can cut it before selecting the final squad. There's always a mix and match on the bench.

I won't read too much into these games, other than looking to sort out the 30 man squads.

As ever, the final squad picks will be keenly debated.

Nothing to do with the discussion, but Dai_Tryin is possibly the best username on v2!

Wow. I have to concede that there really are some annoyingly arrogant English comments on these boards. I've heard some uppity Welsh posters complaining about such things in the past, but until now I never actually witnessed it myself. Incredibly irritating and sad.

For the record, I NEVER assume a victory against Wales. I've seen us lose to them far too many times, and you just cannot deny the quality that they have within their squad. To suggest that they won't be hard enough of a test is not only sickeningly arrogant and disrespectful, but it's also utterly unrealistic and inaccurate: there is no doubt in my mind that these will be huge tests for us. I (along with most sane English fans) am always very nervous when it comes to playing Wales, for good reason, and I predict home wins for both teams.

Countnefarious wrote:Wow. I have to concede that there really are some annoyingly arrogant English comments on these boards. I've heard some uppity Welsh posters complaining about such things in the past, but until now I never actually witnessed it myself. Incredibly irritating and sad.

For the record, I NEVER assume a victory against Wales. I've seen us lose to them far too many times, and you just cannot deny the quality that they have within their squad. To suggest that they won't be hard enough of a test is not only sickeningly arrogant and disrespectful, but it's also utterly unrealistic and inaccurate: there is no doubt in my mind that these will be huge tests for us. I (along with most sane English fans) am always very nervous when it comes to playing Wales, for good reason, and I predict home wins for both teams.

I think both unions are very lucky to have arranged this fixture I am sure it will benefit both teams prospects at the RWC.

What interests me is how quiet the news from all the camps is. There is so little fact, even speculation the press have been completely withdrawn.

Hopefully good news for the players.

Reading the posts above there is plenty of speculation from both English and Welsh fans. What is interesting is to read how both have spent weeks up to now discussing who should be in or out, only to see how as D-Day approaches many fans revert to players a week ago they rejected, Ryan Jones, Shontayne Hape, Ricky Flutey, Stephen Jones...!


I was very happy to read that Gatland is further impressed with the youngsters, a few weeks ago it was Scott Williams now its Tuperic and I think Lloyd Williams has been mentioned twice now by him, as pushing senior players for their spots.

I hope we do see an element of youthful exuberance, a touch of revival Henson, a tougher mental attitude, some better quality rugby and wins for the next ten or so games.

Agree with dogtooth, that's what I've been saying all along.

dogtooth wrote:wales should play the strongest possible xxii for the away summer test and aim for an away win.

tinker a little for the home game.

for the 3rd test wales should start the back up players- faletau, preistland- and have some experience on the bench.

we should aim to beat eng twice and use arg to give the back up players game time.

There is no point tinkering late on just before argentina it would be far too late to use anything we found successful so late on.

Not sure what the team will be, but i have a feeling Wales are going to shock a few people.

The camp appears to be more gruelling and more competitive from any other camps ive read about - i reckon, well Gatland had to, take drastic measures to get the team back on track. The team will be overly eager to compete as well given its Wales their playing for.

Im betting (Well actually just giving the bookies) money on Wales winning. South Africa could have a disjointed team as their first XV won't of had any warm ups before this world cup, they have 22 injured players ofcourse!...

Wales could serious put down a marker in the next few weeks. As long as im not put in a home for saying that, i reckon it'll be great viewing.

DaDubs1 wrote:Not sure what the team will be, but i have a feeling Wales are going to shock a few people.

The camp appears to be more gruelling and more competitive from any other camps ive read about - i reckon, well Gatland had to, take drastic measures to get the team back on track. The team will be overly eager to compete as well given its Wales their playing for.

Im betting (Well actually just giving the bookies) money on Wales winning. South Africa could have a disjointed team as their first XV won't of had any warm ups before this world cup, they have 22 injured players ofcourse!...

Wales could serious put down a marker in the next few weeks. As long as im not put in a home for saying that, i reckon it'll be great viewing.

I admire your sentiment and I must say i 90% agree that I am only getting positive things from this camp. Though I am bemused as to why Jonthan Thomas and Andy Powell is rejoining the groups that is all ready heavy with back row players that are being highly touted by Gatland, when only one is out injured?

maestegmafia wrote:

DaDubs1 wrote:Not sure what the team will be, but i have a feeling Wales are going to shock a few people.

The camp appears to be more gruelling and more competitive from any other camps ive read about - i reckon, well Gatland had to, take drastic measures to get the team back on track. The team will be overly eager to compete as well given its Wales their playing for.

Im betting (Well actually just giving the bookies) money on Wales winning. South Africa could have a disjointed team as their first XV won't of had any warm ups before this world cup, they have 22 injured players ofcourse!...

Wales could serious put down a marker in the next few weeks. As long as im not put in a home for saying that, i reckon it'll be great viewing.

I admire your sentiment and I must say i 90% agree that I am only getting positive things from this camp. Though I am bemused as to why Jonthan Thomas and Andy Powell is rejoining the groups that is all ready heavy with back row players that are being highly touted by Gatland, when only one is out injured?

Ah could be any reason. Gatland might be holding his cards close to his chest if theres any knocks on any other players. He's playing the media game well anyway. Few interviews, sharp and not giving overly much away. Nice difference from the usual Poopie he spews up that should be written up and burned by the the Nazi book burners. i.e. 'The Welsh hate the Irish team the most'

nottins_jones wrote:Agree with dogtooth, that's what I've been saying all along.

great minds, nottins. great minds

DaDubs1 wrote:

Wales could serious put down a marker in the next few weeks. As long as im not put in a home for saying that, i reckon it'll be great viewing.

you are clearly bonkers. take him away.

DaDubs1 wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

DaDubs1 wrote:Not sure what the team will be, but i have a feeling Wales are going to shock a few people.

The camp appears to be more gruelling and more competitive from any other camps ive read about - i reckon, well Gatland had to, take drastic measures to get the team back on track. The team will be overly eager to compete as well given its Wales their playing for.

Im betting (Well actually just giving the bookies) money on Wales winning. South Africa could have a disjointed team as their first XV won't of had any warm ups before this world cup, they have 22 injured players ofcourse!...

Wales could serious put down a marker in the next few weeks. As long as im not put in a home for saying that, i reckon it'll be great viewing.

I admire your sentiment and I must say i 90% agree that I am only getting positive things from this camp. Though I am bemused as to why Jonthan Thomas and Andy Powell is rejoining the groups that is all ready heavy with back row players that are being highly touted by Gatland, when only one is out injured?

Ah could be any reason. Gatland might be holding his cards close to his chest if theres any knocks on any other players. He's playing the media game well anyway. Few interviews, sharp and not giving overly much away. Nice difference from the usual Poopie he spews up that should be written up and burned by the the Nazi book burners. i.e. 'The Welsh hate the Irish team the most'

The guy says stuff that is randomly quoted in a more controversial context to make a half decent headline...

dogtooth wrote:

DaDubs1 wrote:

Wales could serious put down a marker in the next few weeks. As long as im not put in a home for saying that, i reckon it'll be great viewing.

you are clearly bonkers. take him away.

I even seen England playing in an All Black kit i tell ya!

DaDubs1 wrote:

dogtooth wrote:

DaDubs1 wrote:

Wales could serious put down a marker in the next few weeks. As long as im not put in a home for saying that, i reckon it'll be great viewing.

you are clearly bonkers. take him away.

I even seen England playing in an All Black kit i tell ya!

you're losing it big time, mate

maestegmafia wrote:

dogtooth wrote:wales should play the strongest possible xxii for the away summer test and aim for an away win.

tinker a little for the home game.

for the 3rd test wales should start the back up players- faletau, preistland- and have some experience on the bench.

we should aim to beat eng twice and use arg to give the back up players game time.

There is no point tinkering late on just before argentina it would be far too late to use anything we found successful so late on.

Totally agree with you MM, we have to play our strongest team (or what Gats thinks it will be for SA against the Pumas), beating England twice would be great don't get me wrong but we have to go into the WC on the back of a win in our last game not a loss.

The point is Argentina aren't a good team at the moment, we could still have a good chance of beating them in the final game even if we do make some changes to give other guys the chance. Why is it such a bad idea to prioritise the England games? Definitely the strongest team between now and the world cup group stages (minus South Africa). I remember us going into the last world cup on the back of a win against Argentina and we didn't get far so we need not win that one so long as we win a game against England. Wishful thinking but if we win both against them I'd be tempted to change the entire team for the final warm-up game.

Are these warm up games full internationals a few wins wont do our rankings any harm.

Yeah, full internationals.

Whatever we do against England (and we bloody should go for 2 wins, we are capable - especially at home) we simply have to win against Argentina to have some sort of momentum going in to the WC.

*Tips hat to Countnefarious*. I'm sure they'll be 2 crackers, and I can't wait!

Draigoch,

I agree we should be looking to win our two home games but MUST go into the WC on the back of a win against the Pumas

Why though? We did in 2007... I'd use it for combinations. Shame that isn't the first match before two england games or we could all agree on it.

Yeah if it was Arg/Eng/Eng then think we would all agree last one was the important one.

For me it still is, we have to go there on the back of a win two if poss

Going in on the back of two home wins would be good. Would you have a change of heart on the final fixture if we won the two fixtures previous to that one?

Haha, now thats a good one nottins, maybe yes but my head yes then go for the kill and go in on tiptop form n momentum etc

For me what we NEED to do is sort out our 1st choice half-backs and our centre combinations. So, sort that and I'll be a happy camper going into the WC.

The whole predict 3 game thing is too confusing for me, so here is who I'd pick for the game in England.

01 Gethin Jenkins
02 Mathew Rees
03 Adam Jones
04 Bradley Davies
05 Alun Wyn-Jones
06 Dan Lydiate
07 Sam Warburton
08 Toby Faletau

09 Lloyd Williams
10 James Hook

11 Shane Williams
12 Gavin Henson
13 Jamie Roberts
14 Aled Brew
15 Lee Byrne

Thoughts?

The problem is Draigoch, we've had around two seasons to sort out our midfield combo's and after this n that they still aren't sorted. Although I do like the look of your halfbacks there. Lets unleash Hook! Gav the bachelor may cause a bit of contraversy but centre isn't an England strong point so why not...

Paul James starts at loosehead on current form. We can't be certain of Gethin's match fitness so he remains on the bench coming on in the 2nd half.

I am assuming Gatland will play Gavin Henson in the first game against England,Henson plus Roberts will be the centre pairing. I also think for the first game Hook will be on the bench with S J starting at 10.

If Henson as a blinder of game against England then Gatland will feel justified in picking him. And Henson will then start the second game at centre with JD along side him.

Why is their alot of doubt about Ryan Jones being the the team?

majesticimperialman wrote:I am assuming Gatland will play Gavin Henson in the first game against England,Henson plus Roberts will be the centre pairing. I also think for the first game Hook will be on the bench with S J starting at 10.

If Henson as a blinder of game against England then Gatland will feel justified in picking him. And Henson will then start the second game at centre with JD along side him.

Why is their alot of doubt about Ryan Jones being the the team?

Did you assume all this and come to that conclusion by reading this thread and all it's comments? Because you don't have the nous to determine that from watching rugby, as you claim to do.

majesticimperialman wrote:

Why is their alot of doubt about Ryan Jones being the the team?

There is competition at 8 from Delve, highly rated in the super 15, and Faletau highly rated in the Magners. Also in the second row, where he played a great deal of rugby last season at the Ospreys from Bradley Davies, Luke Charteris and Alun Wynn Jones.

Ryan jones probably isn't even second choice in either the backrow or second row, unless he has been performing miracles in training.

Re: Wales Team for the first England game
by nottins_jones Today at 7:09 pm

.majesticimperialman wrote:
I am assuming Gatland will play Gavin Henson in the first game against England,Henson plus Roberts will be the centre pairing. I also think for the first game Hook will be on the bench with S J starting at 10.

If Henson as a blinder of game against England then Gatland will feel justified in picking him. And Henson will then start the second game at centre with JD along side him.

Why is their alot of doubt about Ryan Jones being the the team?

Did you assume all this and come to that conclusion by reading this thread and all it's comments? Because you don't have the nous to determine that from watching rugby, as you claim to do.
.
nottins_jones

Would you of taken Gavin Henson in the Welsh squad with the amount iof game time he had before the squad was assembled?

Surely he was not their just for team moral. Can you see Gatland dropping him from the world cup squad?

Ryan Jones will almost definitely travel to the World Cup and will probably make the matchday 22.

Hugely experienced and can cover 4 forward positions from the bench. Even if he isn't the best starting option in any position, I still think he'll go, and do a good job if called upon.

robbo277 wrote:Ryan Jones will almost definitely travel to the World Cup and will probably make the matchday 22.

Hugely experienced and can cover 4 forward positions from the bench. Even if he isn't the best starting option in any position, I still think he'll go, and do a good job if called upon.

Definitely, I am sure he will be in the 22. his versatility and experience is invaluable.

I was discussing thought on the make up of the squad/MD 22 with a few mates down the club earlier, my mate, a massive ponty fan thinks that even if Martyn Williams isn't in the RWC Squad, he should go as a waterboy/assistant, his experience will be invaluable and it would be a waste to leave him at home when he could be of use to us all.

If Williams isn't selected I presume he will retire from International rugby forthwith...!