Cardiff: The tallent void?

With the announcment of the 39 man squad that will be used to play the three test matches before the World Cup, i found it interesting to see that there is a lack of Cardiff born players in the Welsh senior set up. Of a squad of 39 players only four players in the squad were born in Cardiff.

Sam Warburton: Cardiff
Gareth Delve: Cardiff
Aled Brew: Cardiff
Lloyd Williams: Cardiff

As Cardiff is the capitol aswell as the largest city by size and population in Wales, should it be pulling its weight more with regards to player tallent? Cardiff has somewhere around or above 30 clubs in its borders. Which range from Cardiff and District clubs such as STAR and Tongwynlais RFC, to Cardiff RFC in the prem and Glamorgan Wanderers who now find them selfs in in Div 1 East. Amongst these clubs there are Rhiwbina RFC and Pentyrch RFC. Who both claim to have the largest mini and junior sections in Wales. So with all of these clubs why are more players from Cardiff not making the grade?

From talking with people i have come across the same three answers more often then not.

1) Too many kids are playing football.
2) There isnt any schools rugby in Cardiff.
3) Most kids in Cardiff arnt fluent in Welsh, and the selectors are bias towards Welsh speaking players.

Looking at the Under 20's side, from a squad of twenty seven players only six of the players were from Cardiff. Which is a higher % per player then the senior side. But if a city with 300,000 people and 30+ clubs is being out produced by small towns like Bridgend and Carmarthen then does this suggest a problem with coaching a development in the clubs in the Cardiff area? Does all of the tallent end up playing Football? Does a lack of school rugby hinder players in Cardiff? Or is the Welsh set up bias towards Welsh speaking players?

Thoughts?

Welsh Squad: Place of Birth

Spoiler:

the cardiff rugby administration can be bit of a mess some times, if anything i feel there is a Catholic bias around the st josephs /Peters rfc teams. In the true inner city areas of grangetown and canton perhaps football does rule do to the proximaty of cardiff city and the lack of green space needed for rugby. Other than that rugby is loved as much in cardiff as in the rest of the country. As for school rugby, the likes of Glantaf, Whitchurch, St Davids and Radyr are very good rugby schools that will continue to compete at the highest level of welsh school rugby.
And i would like to point out things are getting much better, the likes of Cory Allen and Harry Robinson have recently signed cardiff blues academy contracts and are 'diff boys through and through. Rhys Patchell and Reuben Tucker are also quality prospects.

I think more could be done to promote rugby in Grangetown and Riverside, as off the top of my head i cant think any teams in that area, other then the ciacs, and they like to brand them selfs as a "Cardiff Bay" team.

Having playing for Cardiff U-15s up to youth when i was younger it always seemed to me that the district sides were bias towards Rumney and Glam Wanderers players. It always seemed that the coaches were affiliated with these clubs though. Some of the lads had said that they didnt make the Welsh team because they didnt speak Welsh.

I dont doubt that the level of 6th form rugby is high having played for St.Davids. But at high school there never seemed to be much going on.

A lot of the academy players coming though are from Cardiff, so in a few years I expect things to change.

Also, even though Cardiff has a population of 300,000 I am sure that the % of those who play age grade rugby is lower than in laces like Llanelli and Brigend - Partly because as with all capitol cities there is a lower % of children.

Cardiff also doesnt has quite the same cultural attitude towards rugby as the valleys or west wales, although the passion for the sport is the same, less are likely to continue with rugby as a professional career.

As someone who recently left a Cardiff school (the same year as Harry Robinson in fact) I have to say that more could be done to encourage people to play rugby.

Cardiff is really a football town.

The rugby club have always 'lifted' players from elsewhere with Bridgend, Cowbridge, Pontypridd being particularly favourite hunting grounds for the scouts.

[/[quote="doctornickolas"]Cardiff is really a football town.

The rugby club have always 'lifted' players from elsewhere with Bridgend, Cowbridge, Pontypridd being particularly favourite hunting grounds for the scouts.

quote]

That's quite right, though West Wales has also supplied a lot. I've followed Cardiff since the mid-1950s and there's never been any secret that the club took players - especially brilliant backs - from all over South Wales, even when, or maybe especially when, it was called 'the best rugby club in the world'. For example, the following famous Cardiff backs were all born elsewhere in Wales : Bleddyn Williams, Jack Matthews, Rex Willis, Cliff Morgan, Gareth Edwards, Barry John, Maurice Richards, Gerald Davies, Brynmor Williams, Gareth Davies, Neil Jenkins, Robert Howley, Jonathan Davies. As far as I can recall, the only Cardiff-born back who could really stand comparison with that lot was Terry Holmes.

Regardless or not, if a city with the two biggest mini and junior club team isnt producing enough players, then something is wrong. A feather in Pentyrchs cap as of late is Harry Robinson. But i still think there could be more being done in Cardiff and i dont think being able to speak Welsh or not is a criteria that should be involved in selection. You may disagree.

Just checking. Sled brew was born in Cardiff, but wasn't he brought up in the Swansea area?

Coleman wrote:Having playing for Cardiff U-15s up to youth when i was younger it always seemed to me that the district sides were bias towards Rumney and Glam Wanderers players. It always seemed that the coaches were affiliated with these clubs though.

Not surprised, it's always been like that. The coach will be affilliated with some club and they will make the bulk of the squad. It's been like that for years and still goes on.

I'm not really sure how an anti monoglot battitude can be used as a reason for lack of cardiff born players in the cardiff academy setup. The blues academy covers a far wider area than cardiff itself, many of these areas are greater hotbeds of rugby than the capitol so you'd expect to see the stats you've produced.
I also progressed through the junior and youth setup at Cardiff and South Glam ( quite a while back now) and I never encountered any anti monoglot attitude in selection, perhaps this is just an imagined sligh imagined by dissapointed boys to make up for any shortcomings after not being picked?

*slight

Brew went to school in the Swansea valley (funnily enough a Welsh medium school). There does to seem to be an increase in Welsh speaking international players when compared with national averages.

However to suggest this is because of bias you would have to suggest some people unfairly missing out. Do you mean international selection or regional? Considering Gatland is national selector and plenty of the regional coaches aren't Welsh speaking I'm not sure if there's evidence.

I really find it difficult to believe that there are coaches (judged on success) at any level in wales who are purposefully weakening their own team by selecting inferior players based on how many languages they speak! This seems like a bit of a far fetched conspiracy theory to me.
Trying to list welshspeaking first team regulars. S. Jones, J. Roberts, S. Williams. I suppse you cold include mcusker, peel and brew. That's six out of around a 40 man playing squad, well below the 20% average in the rest of the population. Can anyone think of any more bilingual players? Not sure the"welsh rugby is carp because they only pick welsh speakers" theory holds much water to be honest.

Agree HammerofTh - especially if you think that the Carmarthenshire, Swansea valleys and North Wales have produced quite a number of Welsh internationals over the last couple of decades and there is quite a high percentage of Welsh speakers in these areas.

Although never having played rugby to a high level myself, I've never heard of any bias against none Welsh speakers, and thought that S East Wales had quite a high representation in pro rugby and the Wales squad even though there is a minority of Welsh speakers in that region

North? - someone earlier said Brew went to a Welsh school, umm Knoyle maybe?

John Davies, George North, Tavis Knoyle can all speak Welsh. Scott Williams can too I think. Nearly all the Scarlets players in the Welsh squad can speak Welsh.

FT wrote:I'm not really sure how an anti monoglot battitude can be used as a reason for lack of cardiff born players in the cardiff academy setup. The blues academy covers a far wider area than cardiff itself, many of these areas are greater hotbeds of rugby than the capitol so you'd expect to see the stats you've produced.
I also progressed through the junior and youth setup at Cardiff and South Glam ( quite a while back now) and I never encountered any anti monoglot attitude in selection, perhaps this is just an imagined sligh imagined by dissapointed boys to make up for any shortcomings after not being picked?

Not for me, i represented the district ever year and also the schools. Although i hold the schools teams in higher regards than the district.

But it is true, to some extent. Back when i was playing in the 90's, it was well known. Some of the dross i had to play next too was unbelievable.

But if a city with 300,000 people and 30+ clubs is being out produced by small towns like Bridgend and Carmarthen then does this suggest a problem with coaching a development in the clubs in the Cardiff area? Does all of the tallent end up playing Football? Does a lack of school rugby hinder players in Cardiff? Or is the Welsh set up bias towards Welsh speaking players?

Another option could be there are more temptations in the city than in the sticks. After all how many talented kids end up giving up playing sport full stop once they discover things like drinking, smoking and the oposite sex?

Phillips is a welsh speaker isn't he? And AW Jones.

Phillips is aye I forgot about him. Not sure about AW Jones, I can't re-call him ever speaking Welsh anyway, trying to think if I've seen him intereviewed on S4C and can't remember!

According to this AW Jones's mother is the only Welsh speaker in the family.

Straight from someone who may be in a better position than us to answer the question -

http://www.michaelowenrugby.com/michael-owen-latest-news/i-was-wondering-how-many-of-the-welsh-team-speak-their-own-language-and-whether-it-might-be-advantageous-to-make-the-calls-in-welsh/

6 to to 10 of the SQUAD
Hardly evidence of bias

I didn't even think Phillips could speak English!

Gcblues.
Hi fella, was the bias you encountered in favour of glantaf players (only welsh speaking school in cardiff) or players from outside cardiff but playing for cardiff youth?

Welsh is also spoken by a higher percentage of younger people ( under 30yo) as the language is growing, as seen by the increase in welsh medium schools. This probably means that the welsh speaking average of 20% is a little low with regard to the welsh squad.