Few of points after finaly being able to see Wales' 3-2 win over England

1) George North and Manu Tuilagia will now be hyped up beyond all reason by the internets. Im assuming that North/Williams is set as the first choice wing combination now if it wasnt previously. Arguably that could be one of Wales' strong areas. The young Englisham doesnt look to be a flash in the pan one season wonder.
Manu conversly Im not convinced will start for England at the world cup despite a well executed run in and looking comfortable and undaunted by test rugby. Tidall is still "backs Captain" however the pressure is on an thats good. Theres a good chance Manu will start anothr warm up game and could well be on the plane.
2) Wilkinosn seems to b back to his oldself, in a way we havnt seen for a long time. Hes even rediscovered his ability to punish teams with drop goals. Again this puts real pressure on Flood to refind his form and prove hes number one. If Wilkinson were a starter of course this would make it easier to pick Manu over Tindall, giving Johnson that senior figure in the backs he always wants. Big plus for England
3) How little the England back 3 kicked the ball. Evertyone said they hated aerial ping pong, well they stoppd it. Even Wilkinson didnt hoof it every oportunity. I do wonder if they would go to a slightly more conservative/pragmatic game plan in high pressure worldcup games though. A domnant long kicking and territory game is still a great way to pressure any opposition.
4) Despite looking to run the ball a lot and Wales' defensive frailities England could only score 2 tries, one comng from a scrum. Without Ashton and Foden they seem a little impotent in the backs. Armitage did show some glimpses of his old self though. Unlike Wales they couldnt take advantge of the broken game late on despite their suppossed adventurous cavelier spirit. The relative strength of the two benches may not have helped though.

Think North an Williams are in pole position but hope Halfpenny and Brew get fair carck. Halfpenny for me should be considered as an option at XV to especially in light of Morgans injury.

Agree with you on Wilkinson he just knows how to keep the scoreboard ticking along for you guys.

Good post agree with all the points, I think Wilkinson is a must in the tight games as he does kick so well, I watched him against the Ospreys for the first half and he was really good controlling the game. The main concern at the moment for England is they ran out of steam by 60 minutes. It looked as if Wales worked on fitness and England on drills. Next week could tell on England if they pick the same set of forwards but I doubt that will be the case.

Why spoil an otherwise good post by calling it a 3-2 victory to Wales, thus implying that we're trying to claim a moral victory (in truth the discussion has been good on here with little or no Wumming, for a change, and a lot of congratulatory banter), and by pointing out George North's place of birth? No need.

Back to your post. Lots of good points. Wilkinson is looking very good. He can get you to places on the field to really turn the screw, and as a 'game manager' he's one of the best. He was never really a running 10 and probably never will be, but as a technical 10, play maker and tactician he is still one of the best. Oh, and not 'alf bad with the boot either, taking the drops at the right times too.

Manu looks very good. Something England have maybe been missing for a few years? A real cutting edge in the centre? It will will scary to see him lining up with Ashton, Foden, etc. That's got tries written all over it. Although still a bit rough edged, and who wouldn't be on debut, I can see him being a mainstay in the team for many years, form permitting. Powerful, big hitting but fleetfooted centres are like rocking horse poop these days.

Which brings me onto my last point: depth. I'm seriously impressed with the depth England are developing. You had something like 21 players missing yesterday? Wales only had about 8 first choices missing and we still couldn't beat you, and were miles adrift until about 60 mins. Not sure what the teams will be for next week but it would be nice to compare like with like at the reverse venue, from a fans point of view anyway, just to see how we do at home against the same team. I suspect a similar Wales but a vastly changed England?

I think both teams and sets of coaches will take some positives and some issues to work on from the game:

England -
Positives: Dominant in the scrum with the two probable back up props.
Good form from Wilkinson and Armitage
Overall signs of good strength in depth in the squad (given that there were probably only 5 of the first XV in the starting lineup and none to come from the bench).

Negatives
Exposed defensively on the left wing 3 or 4 times (including the very near try in the corner where Turnbull's elbow hit the touch line just before he grounded the ball).
Outplayed on the flanks
Didn't necessarily take opportunities following good counter attacks - perhaps lacking a bit of a cutting edge.

Wales:
Positives - Ended the game strongly
Showed good patience and accuracy of handling to work the tries
Priestland performed admirably under the circmstances.

Negatives - Front row outscrumamged
2nd row didn't shine as they would have hoped
Lost the match despite being closer to their best available XV than England were
Losing Stoddart, who was playing well up to the time of his injury.

Exposed defensively on the left wing 3 or 4 times (including the very near try in the corner where Turnbull's elbow hit the touch line just before he grounded the ball).

I think it was Warburton, wasn't it? Either way, I thought Cueto was very poor. Banahan wasn't overly-effective, so I would look at Monye and Sharples with Banahan to come off the bench and hopefully someone puts up their hand to challenge Cueto. I would probably give Cueto a match against Ireland so he can prove it was a one-off, but if he played badly I'd look to make a change before Argentina.

I thought Banahan was pretty good based on what I saw on the highlights - when he got the ball. He looked very powerful and fast - breaking tackles and brushing off Faletau

I was impressed by Armitage and Wilkinson. Do you guys really think Banahan is the answer?

Griff wrote:Why spoil an otherwise good post by calling it a 3-2 victory to Wales, thus implying that we're trying to claim a moral victory (in truth the discussion has been good on here with little or no Wumming, for a change, and a lot of congratulatory banter), and by pointing out George North's place of birth? No need.

OK go back look again. I Talk about George North being English then immediatly go on about Manu Tuilagi, tongue in cheek joke.
Wales 3-2 thing ..yes a cheeky pop but if you look around youll find folk such as nottins_jones using the old "moral victory" a sa joke post, this a joke repsonse...but it also links to the point about Englands lack of try threat and Wales' ability to take advantage of their better (in this game) wingers.

Not pointless WUMs, cheeky ways on injecting humour.

biltongbek wrote:I was impressed by Armitage and Wilkinson. Do you guys really think Banahan is the answer?

No, Ashton is the first choice on that wing. From teh makeup of the training squad omost of us had assumed they were looking at Banahan as a center not a wing.
Hes a good bench option though, covering a range of positions.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:1) George North and Manu Tuilagia will now be hyped up beyond all reason by the internets. Im assuming that North/Williams is set as the first choice wing combination now if it wasnt previously. Arguably that could be one of Wales' strong areas. The young Englisham doesnt look to be a flash in the pan one season wonder.

Ahem! The "young englishman" who was raised on Ynys Mon and speaks Cymraeg fluently? If North is English then we'll have Stuart Barnes and Dewi Morris back then ...... ummmm .... on second thoughts, no you can keep them

Totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:1) George North and Manu Tuilagia will now be hyped up beyond all reason by the internets. Im assuming that North/Williams is set as the first choice wing combination now if it wasnt previously. Arguably that could be one of Wales' strong areas. The young Englisham doesnt look to be a flash in the pan one season wonder.

Ahem! The "young englishman" who was raised on Ynys Mon and speaks Cymraeg fluently? If North is English then we'll have Stuart Barnes and Dewi Morris back then ...... ummmm .... on second thoughts, no you can keep them

Don't take the bait or this will descend into a ruined thread with people invoking Grannygate, accuse others of theiving kiwis etc etc .

I think that Cueto and Banahan played fairly well actually, the tries were more about the people inside them getting sucked into the rucks and/or not matching numbers with the welsh on either side of the ruck. Cueto had a couple of good breaks and made some good tackles and Banahan did likewise (including making Falutua (sp?) "sit down").

I think Sharples looked like he could do with some time to prove himself but to be honest I don't think we are weak on the wings. We have no decent inside centre in the squad but that's a different story!

I think the effect of losing Jones in the warm up shouldn't be underestimated and that the Wales performance was quite good. England lost their rhythm towards the 60 minute mark for a variety of reasons and Wales took advantage. I think the next game could well be equally as close.

Actually, the more I think about it the more I'd like to see some sort of Wilkinson/Flood 10/12 combination. Perhaps JW 12 in defence and Flood 12 in attack?

Wilkinson is the most reliable 10 in the world (apart from perhaps Carter) and when he's playing well like he is at the moment it seems odd to leave him out.

It'd be interesting to hear what some of the southern hemisphere guys like biltong think of that idea?

screamingaddabs wrote:

Totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:1) George North and Manu Tuilagia will now be hyped up beyond all reason by the internets. Im assuming that North/Williams is set as the first choice wing combination now if it wasnt previously. Arguably that could be one of Wales' strong areas. The young Englisham doesnt look to be a flash in the pan one season wonder.

Ahem! The "young englishman" who was raised on Ynys Mon and speaks Cymraeg fluently? If North is English then we'll have Stuart Barnes and Dewi Morris back then ...... ummmm .... on second thoughts, no you can keep them

Don't take the bait or this will descend into a ruined thread with people invoking Grannygate, accuse others of theiving kiwis etc etc .

Not taking bait - just a light hearted humorous comeback I mean Dewi "It's pronounced DAAAWIEEE" Morris - come on!

Totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:1) George North and Manu Tuilagia will now be hyped up beyond all reason by the internets. Im assuming that North/Williams is set as the first choice wing combination now if it wasnt previously. Arguably that could be one of Wales' strong areas. The young Englisham doesnt look to be a flash in the pan one season wonder.

Ahem! The "young englishman" who was raised on Ynys Mon and speaks Cymraeg fluently? If North is English then we'll have Stuart Barnes and Dewi Morris back then ...... ummmm .... on second thoughts, no you can keep them

Manu speaks better Samoaonish than he does Welshish. We win.

Totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

screamingaddabs wrote:

Totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:1) George North and Manu Tuilagia will now be hyped up beyond all reason by the internets. Im assuming that North/Williams is set as the first choice wing combination now if it wasnt previously. Arguably that could be one of Wales' strong areas. The young Englisham doesnt look to be a flash in the pan one season wonder.

Ahem! The "young englishman" who was raised on Ynys Mon and speaks Cymraeg fluently? If North is English then we'll have Stuart Barnes and Dewi Morris back then ...... ummmm .... on second thoughts, no you can keep them

Don't take the bait or this will descend into a ruined thread with people invoking Grannygate, accuse others of theiving kiwis etc etc .

Not taking bait - just a light hearted humorous comeback I mean Dewi "It's pronounced DAAAWIEEE" Morris - come on!

Fair enough. If anyone fancies taking Stuart Barnes away (preferably as far away from a TV studio and/or microphone as possible) then please do!

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

Totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:1) George North and Manu Tuilagia will now be hyped up beyond all reason by the internets. Im assuming that North/Williams is set as the first choice wing combination now if it wasnt previously. Arguably that could be one of Wales' strong areas. The young Englisham doesnt look to be a flash in the pan one season wonder.

Ahem! The "young englishman" who was raised on Ynys Mon and speaks Cymraeg fluently? If North is English then we'll have Stuart Barnes and Dewi Morris back then ...... ummmm .... on second thoughts, no you can keep them

Manu speaks better Samoaonish than he does Welshish. We win.

I was thinking about mentioning Shane Whoarth as well

Now Howarth has been mentioned I think someone needs to check out Tuilagi's eligibility for England, after all Tuilagi was an illegal immigrant until last year, does the 4 years he spent in Britain as an illegal immigrant count towards his residency to qualify for England?

Looks like England have done a worse whoopsie than Wales ever did.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

Totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:1) George North and Manu Tuilagia will now be hyped up beyond all reason by the internets. Im assuming that North/Williams is set as the first choice wing combination now if it wasnt previously. Arguably that could be one of Wales' strong areas. The young Englisham doesnt look to be a flash in the pan one season wonder.

Ahem! The "young englishman" who was raised on Ynys Mon and speaks Cymraeg fluently? If North is English then we'll have Stuart Barnes and Dewi Morris back then ...... ummmm .... on second thoughts, no you can keep them

Manu speaks better Samoaonish than he does Welshish. We win.

eh? You've lost me there mate - what's your point. Who would expect Manu to speak Welsh? Or do you mean that Manu speaks better Samoan than North speaks Welsh? If so how did you measure that? Or was the all a bit too much

Turkster wrote:Now Howarth has been mentioned I think someone needs to check out Tuilagi's eligibility for England, after all Tuilagi was an illegal immigrant until last year, does the 4 years he spent in Britain as an illegal immigrant count towards his residency to qualify for England?

Looks like England have done a worse whoopsie than Wales ever did.

Well howarth had lived in Wales for 0 years when he made his debut, a worse whoopsie maybe?

screamingaddabs wrote:

Turkster wrote:Now Howarth has been mentioned I think someone needs to check out Tuilagi's eligibility for England, after all Tuilagi was an illegal immigrant until last year, does the 4 years he spent in Britain as an illegal immigrant count towards his residency to qualify for England?

Looks like England have done a worse whoopsie than Wales ever did.

Well howarth had lived in Wales for 0 years when he made his debut, a worse whoopsie maybe?

Nah, he had a welsh granny didn't he ..... didn't he? Oh

Has anyone checked when Shane moved to Wales from the Shire?

Carpe Diem wrote:Has anyone checked when Shane moved to Wales from the Shire?

England's team belongs in Gullivers travels doesn't it?

screamingaddabs wrote:

Turkster wrote:Now Howarth has been mentioned I think someone needs to check out Tuilagi's eligibility for England, after all Tuilagi was an illegal immigrant until last year, does the 4 years he spent in Britain as an illegal immigrant count towards his residency to qualify for England?

Looks like England have done a worse whoopsie than Wales ever did.

Well howarth had lived in Wales for 0 years when he made his debut, a worse whoopsie maybe?

well no, not really, because in them days everyone was doing it, i.e. Bachop and Bunce to Samoa, but now the rules, quite rightly, have been changed, so the worse whoopsie is England's.




and anyway it wasn't really meant to be taken seriously, rather in the same way we don't take the opening post seriously, you see?

I am not sure but I think Tuilagi probably only (and lets remember briefly, for whatever reason) became an illegal immigrant when he hit a certain age. I am pretty sure he was legit (as a minor) for most of his 'residency'

Well Im glad this didnt get bogged down in a silly childish debate

BACK ON TOPIC.....

I don't think Tuilagi or North have actually been hyped that much after the game (given the limited stuff I've read). I am pleasantly surprised by this fact.

I also think that it was good that we didn't play ping pong and I feel that Cueto actually played well (unlike a lot of posters who think otherwise).

Whilst I am disappointed to have only scored 2 tries I think that I would rather have won the game than scored more tries. If England were in Wale's position I would be less happy as I feel teams need momentum going into the WC.

Would the Welsh posters preferred one less try and a win or to have had the game how it did end. I'm not WUMing, I think people often differ on their priorities before a WC, some wanting tries and performance in certain areas ahead of wins.

lostinwales wrote:I am not sure but I think Tuilagi probably only (and lets remember briefly, for whatever reason) became an illegal immigrant when he hit a certain age. I am pretty sure he was legit (as a minor) for most of his 'residency'

He was here on a toruist visa and wa sliving here illegaly, that didnt make him inelligable for England...his legal status as a UK resident had nothing to do with his residency qualification according to IRB rules.
It only came toi light when he tried to come back from Samoa and they noticed that not only was he coming back to work but also his visa had expired. The situation over the summer was that he wasnt allowed back untill the FO reviewed the case and decided to allow him in to work. He was only being denied that because he'd previously been here without a valid visa.
To complicate things even more England could have played him in the summer tour even though he wasnt allowed to come to England. This could have made him eligable for a work permit ....
It wasnt in the same catagory as the Celtic Warriors playing players they knew had no legal right to work in the UK.

Some may say that both the British immigration laws and IRB qualification rules have oddities. Fact is that just like the Evans brothers he grew up in the England age group system. If Rikki Flutey shouldnt be playing for England then he should.

Wherever you draw the line its wrong, so lets move on and start talking about Johnny Wilkinsons drop goals (post 2003)

Is it true that when Tuilagi dotted down and Tom Hark rang out around Twickenham that he and Rikki Flutey had a quick conference under the posts on how they could up the defense in the mid-field to stop England scoring again?

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Well Im glad this didnt get bogged down in a silly childish debate

Brilliant, just brilliant!
I just you fella!

Totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Well Im glad this didnt get bogged down in a silly childish debate

Brilliant, just brilliant!
I just you fella!

Oh youre just biased

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

biltongbek wrote:I was impressed by Armitage and Wilkinson. Do you guys really think Banahan is the answer?

No, Ashton is the first choice on that wing. From teh makeup of the training squad omost of us had assumed they were looking at Banahan as a center not a wing.
Hes a good bench option though, covering a range of positions.

I would have thought Tuilagi and Sharpie are the first choice pairing. Not sure if they play the same position though.

Anyone else wonder if the more free flowing approach by Wales was due to Steve Jones' unavailablity last minute, as i think it may have had something to do with it. Or do any of you think the same as my Dad, that Priestland was always going to start, and that they named Jones there only so that the press didn't put too much pressure on Priestland?

Nice pics from the game

Looked at the pics. Tuilagi must be some player to win on his own, especially given the amount of possession Wales had