2012 after the fall

Who do you think will be your Coach,or Coachs and players in 2012 post RWC?

Very good, refreshing new post Alan...
I will have to think about this one and come back to it...

Sonny Bill Williams............................Auckland Blues.
Well no I dont know for sure,just wishful thinking....

According to todays NZ press its a done deal with SBW,IF it is on a one year
contract,it is pointless the all Blacks persisting with him.They might as well develop Crotty or Adam Whitelock,or Kahui,isn`t Benson Stanley of to NH.?

Anything Sonny Bill does will be on a one year deal.

Crikey it'll be a bit of a barbarians blues team wont it.

From a South African perspective I would hope that the coach would be someone like Heineke Meyer, Nick Mallet or Rassie Erasmus. In my opinion those are the guys that has made some impact in SA rugby, be it at Currie Cup level, Super Rugby level and in Mallet’s case international level.

The players I have heard rumours about either retiring or moving abroad are, Guthro Steenkamp, Victor Matfield, Bakkies Botha, John Smit, Butch James, Fourie du Preez and perhaps Jean de Villiers. So not as many as would be expected at this stage.
Players who I would expect to wear the Green and Gold for yet another while is:

Beast Mtawarira (age 26) Coenie Oosthuizen (age22)
Bismarck du Plessis (age 27) Chiliboy ralapele (age 25)
Jannie du Plessis (age 29)
Andries Bekker (age 28)
Flip v d Merwe (age 26)
Schalk Burger (age 28), Heinrich Brussouw (age 25), Juan Smith (age 30), Pierre Spies (age 26), Willem Alberts (age 27), Jean Deysel (age 26), Ashley Johnson (age 26)
Francois Hougaard (age 23) Dewald duvenhage (age 24)Sarel Pretorius (age 27)
Patrick Lambie (age 21), Morne Steyn (age 27)
Jaque Fourie (age 28) Juan du Jong (age 23) Johann Sadie (age 20)
Bryan Habana (age 28), Lwasi Mvovo (age 25), Bjorn Basson (age 24), JP Pietersen (age 25)
Gio Aplon (age 29), Frans Steyn (age 24).

These are roughly those I expect to be in the mix, there will surely be others staking a claim.

Whoever the new coach is, he will also have to be brave early in his tenure, getting rid of Morne Steyn and getting Francois Hougaard and Patrick Lambie as a combination as an example could give us 8-9 years of service out of them as a combination.

I know Kidney, Small and Kiss will still be coaching Ireland. However I am interested to see who new backs and skills coach will be.

The players will also be interesting. I expect several more senior players to have been overtaken at that stage.

red_stag wrote:I know Kidney, Small and Kiss will still be coaching Ireland. However I am interested to see who new backs and skills coach will be.

The players will also be interesting. I expect several more senior players to have been overtaken at that stage.

I don't think there'll be any immediate changes from an Ireland point of view other than perhaps John Hayes and perhaps Horan retiring.

Once you are in team Ireland it's very hard to get out of it so I'd imagine most of the current squad will still be around next season but we'll probably see some more of the younger fringe guys like Felix Jones, Fergus McFadden, Nevin Spence, Rhys Ruddock, Donnacha Ryan and Conor Murray in the next few seasons.

I really don't know who'll be coach this time next year. I know it wont be GH as win or lose the world cup he'll have done his lot, a very successful year and career and will deserve a break.

Not sure if I like the idea of Larsen taking over and for some reason Smith doesnt figure. Larsen isn't the rugby brain that GH is and is too reactive to criticism, often out of tune with things.

Once the coach is sorted I'm expecting the usual turnaround- players retiring, the odd loss or three while we find new combinations but pretty confident we're in good stead with the U20 results last few years. The rebuilding of the Crusaders as a secure unit is important next year as today they found out they have no home for certain with AMI stadium out of action

Taylor do you think a RWC win could actually damage the All Blacks (national side) in the long run as a group of 30 being thinking "thats my World Cup medal got" and lose motivation.

Biltong: I'd love to see Mallet coaching the boks again, but what are the chances of that happening? He was kicked out because of a row with SARU, would they re-hire him?

I agree with you on the Hougaard-Lambie front and the Boks also need to get a new established lock pairing working once Bakkies and Matfiled have left. While I can see Bekker going some way to filling Matfields shoes, I don' t really see any 'enforcers' coming through, who could match Botha at the height of his powers.

Mr Fishpaste wrote:Biltong: I'd love to see Mallet coaching the boks again, but what are the chances of that happening? He was kicked out because of a row with SARU, would they re-hire him?

I agree with you on the Hougaard-Lambie front and the Boks also need to get a new established lock pairing working once Bakkies and Matfiled have left. While I can see Bekker going some way to filling Matfields shoes, I don' t really see any 'enforcers' coming through, who could match Botha at the height of his powers.

I know Mallet's contract is not going to be renewed in Italy, so he could be in the mix, the powers that be in 2000, is no longer there, so hopefully there is at least a chance.

Yes Lambie and Hougaard as a combination could bring a new era and change of style to Springbok rugby, they are both very young and exciting to watch. Just what the south African fans would love to see.

You are right about an enforcer, there are really no current replacement for Bakkies, but then again, with Andries Bekker's impact and modern rugby an enforcer might not be a necessity.

Hi,biltong no place for Earl Grant?,thats an impressive squad.
Do you think the Boks will still use based NH players,has`nt worked in the
past.If so Botha and Matfield may still be available to you?
What is Frans Steyns best position?surprised he`s only 24.Spies is no number 8.
How do you think any Law changes will effect the game,expect changes in
Scrum and breakdown laws.whether they will be any better?seems to me the more they tinker the more complicated they become.
I won`t comment on the NZ squad until we see who remains,of all the SH sides they seem to be most effected by defections and retirements.
Certainly it seems they will be propping up the 3Ns next year.

Hi,Taylorman in the unlikely event the All Blacks,win the RWC Ted has indicated to me on my personal hot line he may well soldier on.
In the event of the likely RWC "choke" ALL the coaches will get the chop as per usual.Ted`s 85% record with half the squad disappearing is a hard Ask.
Jamie Joseph , I think would make a good Head Coach,he is used to building a team without stars.
At S15 level it looks like the Blues will be leading the way,Weepu,Mathewson,Crudon,Toeva,SBW,Ranger,thats some load of backs there.
Crusaders no Thorn,No Jack,presumably Whitelock and Romano start,Back and front row no problems.Adam Whitelock and Crotty to replace SBW at 12,thats almost an All Black backline.
Fruen won`t be far away.from an all Black cap either.

Morning Alan, Grant has for some reason never been in the picture, but playing in Japan didn't really help his chances.

I don't think Matfield will be available anymore from what I understand, Bakkies is going for his pension package, so unlikely they will ever play for the boks again.

From what I can remember Frans Steyn's contract runs out at Racing Metro soon, if it hasn't already. There hasn't been any news as to where he will go after that. I think if you look at the type of back line we could possibly have after the world cup, with Hougaard and Lambie as the half back pairing and Jaque Fourie, Johann Sadie, JP Pietersen, Habana if still in form, and Juan de Jongh, there is really only one place where Frans Steyn can be utilised, and that is at full back.

I see a very exciting time for us, if we pick a good coach, my preference will be Mallet or Rassie, as both of them excite me more by their way of thinking. My concern even though he has been a very succesful coach, Heineke Meyer, may just want to plod along with a similar style as to what we see at the moment.

As far as law changes, I really would like to see the crouch, touch, pause and engage be removed. Let the feeding team get the advantage of the hit, it is after all their ball. This reasoning of theirs to prevent injuries with it is nonsense.

The breakdown laws are too complcated, of they allow hands on the ball, many penalties will dissappear, and as you know most controversially. If they allow all hands on the ball, the law will be so much simpler and teams will adapt to it very quickly and rather offload than go to ground, and ultimately this will open up the game and make it faster.

The other thing is these penalties at scrum time. You don't want to allow a prop to put his hand down to keep the scrum up? That is in contrast with the thinking of making the scrum safer. If you allow a prop to put his hand down to regain balance, fewer scrums will go down and once again less time wasted. Last thing about the scrum is these damn penalties, half the time the referee gets it wrong and penalises the wrong team. It costs games.

But then again that is just my opinion.

alan, forgot to mention, I agree Spies is no no 8, he played wing at school. His body positioning in the close quarters are too upright and hence he gets no momentum.

Perhaps he should go for a few wrestling or judo lessons, it helped me alot when I played prop in understanding the physics of momentum and how to use your weight and low center of gravity.

Alternatively I still think he will make a very good outside center. There he has space and can use the time to build momentum, when at speed he has a good hand off and breaks tackles much easier.

Yes.agree with your comments on the Scrum,teams using illegal binding makes it easier to taking it down.Like you spent alot of my earlier years ding Martial arts[mostly Jujitsu/Self defence,with a little Karate and Aikijutsu.
Most refs Know nothing about scrums,so don`t pick it again the laws have
become too complicated simple is best
Unfortunately certain sides have been deliberately collapsing scrums.and it`s obviously coached and a 50/50 bet if a penalty is awarded you benefit.
There used to be alot of special moves from set scrums that are technically illegal now,provided you stepped back behind the rear foot after detaching it was legal.
The old style Ruck sadly would never return the All Blacks would just love that.if they had any old coaches skilled in it left.
I can just imagine what SA refs circa 1950-60`s would do about crooked scrum feeds.Most Scrum Halves would be in the bin.and a string of penalties the whole game to both sides.
shades of 1949 and Okey Geffin

Hi Red.
In terms of losing motivation that will never happen.
Some players may see another 4 years as too far to stay with the plan and seek higher paying overseas roles- they are already doing it now.
Mils,roko etc. We wont see them again.
But the abs will keep doing what they do.
Strive to be the best and lead the way.
Regardless of what they do wcup wise.

You sure Taylor. I can't help but see a situation where the Kiwis capturing the RWC could remove a big motivational tool for them.

I do home I'm wrong. The All Blacks were the first international I ever saw. Lansdowne Road - Andrew Mehrtens, Tana Umaga, Jonah Lomu and a certain debutante Richie McCaw were the stand outs for me.

Alan joseph hasnt hasnt had enough experience either at superxv or int. Level.
Id prefer tp see someone like kirwan putting his name up.
As a player knows the demands but he also is short of big team experience.
Cooper and ian foster have been named by some but larsen seems to be the fave.
Whoever it is it will certainly be a tough act to follow.

Would NZ look outside the Super 15?

Kiwi coaches Joe Schmidt and Jono Gibbes have worked well together with the trophies to match.

Red the world cup and ab motivation arent related other than.its timing being a natural end point to a career.win or lose.
Its the jersey that motivates not some cup.
Those who choose to go do so because the task of being an ab will have become too hard to endure knowing others are ready to fight for their pos.
But you will never see an unmotivated ab or team. Its not in the ab psyche.
As far as the coach is concerned sxv or international team experience will be a minimum.
Not sure who schmidT is and gibbs has no rep as a coach here. Thought he was still playing?

No Gibbes isn't playing has been coaching here since 2008. He's won 2 Heineken Cups and a Magners Leauge as forwards coach.

Schmidt is the head coach of Leinster this year. He just won Heineken Cup and made Magners League final. He was backs coach for Clermont Auvergne before that. He won Ranfurly Shield with Bay of Plenty and coached Auckland Blues as well.

Thats fair enough about World Cup and AB motivation being separate. I certainly hope so anyway.

Taylorman wrote:Its the jersey that motivates not some cup.

To be fair it looks like the jersey is more valuable than the cup, even in real terms.

Yeah gg. Looking to buy my son one b4 the cup. Not worried bout the price but rebel has it at 170 now i think.
Worth it i reckon. Be a nice thing to have if we win.

Taylorman wrote:Yeah gg. Looking to buy my son one b4 the cup. Not worried bout the price but rebel has it at 170 now i think.
Worth it i reckon. Be a nice thing to have if we win.

One of the mainstream sports shops over here has the white collar jersey for £45, or £35 for the kids' version - thats $85/$70. They don't have the RWC version yet though. I presume (given the extra $ Adicash put on the version for NZ sale) that the RWC shirt will cost a little more.

I hear you can get them from the Adidas shop in Oxford circus for the price of a can of petrol and a box of matches. And they come with free trainers and a 42'' HD ready Panasonic...

TheGreyGhost wrote:I hear you can get them from the Adidas shop in Oxford circus for the price of a can of petrol and a box of matches. And they come with free trainers and a 42'' HD ready Panasonic...

Anyone coming here for the RWC? Bring some shirts with you and make some $$. Can at least get some beer money.
I don't think winning the RWC would have a hell of an impact on the ABs motivation wise. The history of the shirt still seems to have some impact. There will still be competition for positions.
eg whose going to replace Thorn and Mills as two definitely leaving, who is the back up 1st five, 2nd five who are the best wings, who is the best loosehead prop? etc

Think short of a French football type fiasco, Andy Robinson will remain Scotland's coach for a good while (hope he does anyway). I suspect we'll have a number of international retirements (mainly after RWC although some my keep going until May) this year. The likeliest players to retire are Dan Parks, Nathan Hines, Chris Paterson, and maybe Allan Jacobsen (although as a prop he has some mileage left in him). For the most part though the squad is young and many are good for 2015.

Young players pushing to get in the 1st 22 are: Welsh, Grant, Traynor, McKenzie, Harley, Denton, McInally, Weir, Jones, Visser and Laidlaw. Only a couple may make the RWC squad. Hopefully this will help the gene pool but we still have very limited resources compared with the other top 10 sides.