Wales team vs England

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/14437918.stm

Wales team to face England at Millennium Stadium on Saturday:

James Hook; George North; Jamie Roberts, Gavin Henson; Shane Williams; Rhys Priestland, Mike Phillips; Paul James, Lloyd Burns, Craig Mitchell, Luke Charteris, Alun Wyn Jones, Dan Lydiate, Sam Warburton, Toby Faletau

Replacements: Huw Bennett, Ryan Bevington, Josh Turnbull, Justin Tipuric, Tavis Knoyle, Scott Williams, Aled Brew



Im worried,

Hook at FB?
Burns and Mitchell rather than Jones and Rees
Charteris rather than B.Davies?
Preistland in only his 2nd start in a pivitol position

After seeing the England team...im worried.

The way I see it..

Positives
-Henson gets a chance in what could be our best centre partnership
-Good continuity in the back row
-Priestland gets a shot after impressing last week
-Good to see Shane and George get another run out together.

Negatives
-The front row. Are injuries worse than we thought?
-I don't see the point of Hook at full-back. Byrne must have a niggle.
-I'm concerned about the lack of grunt in the 2nd row, and the pack in general. Happy to see Charteris get a shot though.
-Really inexperienced bench.

Injury has desimated the team really,

No S.Jones, Stoddart, Byrne or Halfpenny - so Hook has to play 10/15 and Preistland has to play 10/15 - and Preistland has the 10 shirt ot lose.

2nd/3rd choice front row are going to get crushed, at least if A.Jones was back we wouldnt have to worry.

No Gethin, A.Jones, M.Rees or R.Hibbard in the front row! (also dont know why Bennett lost his place to be honest)

Charteris has never impressed me in a Wales shirt, and we will be lacking an enforcer behind a weak front row without B.Davies.

I hope Faletau plays better than last week.

No R.Jones on the bench?

Knoyle still cant get a start.

Henson better be ready for this...

England have picked a really strong side too. Henson will need to be better defensively than he was against the barbarians. I don't mind Hook at fb. at least he's playing. Worried about the front row but at least it's experience for the back ups playing as a unit.

I'm worried about our pack.

Our locks really need to step up.

It's bizarre Byrne isnt playing, same with Adam Jones and Wellies

1. Paul James (2nd choice)
2. Lloyd Burns (4th choice)
3. Craig Mitchell (2nd choice)
4. Luke Charteris (2nd choice)
5. Alun Wyn Jones (1st chice)
6. Dan Lydiate (1st choice)
7. Sam Warburton (1st choice)
8. Toby Faletau (2nd choice)
9. Mike Phillips (1st choice)
10. Rhys Preistland (3rd choice)
11. Shane Williams (1st choice)
12. Gavin Henson (3rd/4th choice)
13. Jamie Roberts (1st choice)
14. George North (1st/2nd choice)
15. James Hook (3rd choice)

Oh dear...

Hook is wasted at 15, should switch with Priestland.

Hmm. Well the first thing to say is that the scrum's going to be England's again by the looks of it. I rate Charteris and thought Bradley Davies didn't have a good game at Twickenham, but Louis Deacon and Courtney Lawes looks a stronger pairing in the second row. We'll have their back row, though.

Real problems at full back. Hook isn't a full back, for a start, and if he goes off we'll presumably move our outside half there.

I'm less confident than I was.

Yeah, if Hook/Preistland get injured, we have no 10/15 cover on the bench.

Henson to 15 in his first game back I guess...:/

wales606 wrote:Yeah, if Hook/Preistland get injured, we have no 10/15 cover on the bench.

Henson to 15 in his first game back I guess...:/

Move North in field and Roberts at 15 if it gets that serious.

That's a disappointing team for me and whilst I appreciate the experimentation we needed a very strong side here similar to Englands. I guess it will really test the mettle of these guys and will sort the men out from the boys to some extent. I would have played Bennett again after last week (did I just write that!) and the boiler house should have started the same - If we have no platform then we will struggle. Tavis should have been given a start along with Brew for me. Hook might well be a liability and I would have swapped the 10 and 15 round. The fact Priestland was due to play FB last week suggests that Gatland is extremely uncertain about what he's doing! Good luck lads.

Why oh Why is Hook at 15? he's not a FB he's a Centre or a 10, and hasn't played well there. Hook needs game time at 10, Priestland has done well in 1 game at 10, but can play 10 or 15 and just needs to be on the pitch - so why play Hook 15 and Priestland 10 instead of the other way around.

Where's Delve? Also that front 5 looks weak.

I hope Henson's up to it, as if his defence is even a little suspect and he shy's out of tackles (like the BaBa's) then Tindall and Hape are going to run all over him and then we've got Hook as last line of defence!

That scrum is going to have a real struggle to get anywhere near parity with a strong English pack.

wales606 wrote:
1. Paul James (2nd choice) - Might be 2nd choice, but deffo 3rd best, Iestyn Thomas a country mile ahead, what is Gatland doing not picking him
2. Lloyd Burns (4th choice) - Played well last week
3. Craig Mitchell (2nd choice) - Ahem Adam Jones is injured
4. Luke Charteris (2nd choice) - played better than AWJ last week and BD, deserves to be there on form
5. Alun Wyn Jones (1st chice) - Absolutely not on form, why oh why is he been picked
6. Dan Lydiate (1st choice) - agree
7. Sam Warburton (1st choice) - agree
8. Toby Faletau (2nd choice) - not even 3rd choice, why isnt Delve, Ryan Jones,
9. Mike Phillips (1st choice) - Good game last week, but Knoyle upped the tempo when he came on
10. Rhys Preistland (3rd choice) 2nd choice, certainly ahead of Hook!!, after last weeks performance
11. Shane Williams (1st choice) - agree
12. Gavin Henson (3rd/4th choice) - agree, he must have something on Mr G, Williams or Davies should be starting
13. Jamie Roberts (1st choice) - agree, great game last week
14. George North (1st/2nd choice) - Agree, 1/2p is good, but this guy does what it says on the tin........... Scores tries
15. James Hook (3rd choice) - and the rest Byrne, Stoddart, Priestland, 1/2p, Henson, Roberts are could do a better job at FB

Oh dear...

Gatland has reverted to type, tried and tested

well said Ruby

Smirnoffpriest wrote:Why oh Why is Hook at 15? he's not a FB he's a Centre or a 10, and hasn't played well there. Hook needs game time at 10, Priestland has done well in 1 game at 10, but can play 10 or 15 and just needs to be on the pitch - so why play Hook 15 and Priestland 10 instead of the other way around.

Where's Delve? Also that front 5 looks weak.

I hope Henson's up to it, as if his defence is even a little suspect and he shy's out of tackles (like the BaBa's) then Tindall and Hape are going to run all over him and then we've got Hook as last line of defence!

That scrum is going to have a real struggle to get anywhere near parity with a strong English pack.

Delve is playing against Bath on Friday, Ryan Jones has a calf sprain according to the Argus

So to summarise

A poor front row
No second row cover on the bench
Our best 10 playing at 15
A TV show personality at 12
Bennett and a bunch of kids on the bench.

Ahh I see - I apologies for the Delve comment. If it's true that R Jones has a sprain - what is Gatland doing to our players - that's R Jones, S Jones, Byrne, Hibbert, Rees, McCusker, 1/2penny and I'm sure I've missed someone out but that's 7 senior players (exluding McCusker) all out with strains, something we can't really afford.

doctornickolas wrote:So to summarise

A poor front row
No second row cover on the bench
Our best 10 playing at 15
A TV show personality at 12
Bennett and a bunch of kids on the bench.

Thats a good point I forgot to mention Dr Nic - why is Tupric and Turnbull on the bench, surely you only need 1 7 cover, and I know Turnbull can play 6 and cover other positions, but against a strong England side do you really want an inexperienced Turnbull trying to play an unfamiliar position or lock or number 8 if there's an injury? Why isn't JD2 on the bench instead of Williams, why is B Davies on the bench?

i'm no expert on Welsh rugby but i've never seen Hook play better for you than when at 13 a couple of years back. why was that abandoned? I've never been convinced by him at 10 or 15.

Islingtonv2 wrote:i'm no expert on Welsh rugby but i've never seen Hook play better for you than when at 13 a couple of years back. why was that abandoned? I've never been convinced by him at 10 or 15.

I think because there was such a clamour for a creative running 10 like him to be played at flyhalf.

Smirnoff

Unless Bradley Davies is injured, then its a shocker of a selection to have no second row coverage.

Where is the mileage of playing Hook at FB, surely in an ideal situation you would play at least 3 maybe 4 before him (Byrne, Priestland, 1/2p, maybe Henson or Roberts). With the players out injured I would have played Priestland at FB, and Hook at 12 and Henson at 10 (or Hook at 10)

Gives you an indication (giving Mr G had no real choice but to put Hook at 10 this weekend) how Hook has performed in the Flyhalf channel during the last months training.

It might be a long afternoon for you guys

So we have no out and out 8 cover and no lock cover ? Genius....

Munkian, it makes even less sense that they've let Gareth Delve go and play at Bath this weekend.

Munkina, I guess Josh Turnball would go to 2nd row and may be able to play 8???

Ha, sorry that should be Munkian not 'Munkina'. Although, that could be a new name for your other half if you like!

I'm Munkina on Saturday nights

I guess Tuipric and Turnbull can both cover lock postions.

I really want to know the story behind Delve

Strikes me as aodd not to put Hook at 10 since hes surely the first choice.
Does this uggest though that Jones may be seriously injured and Gatland want to give Preistland a chance to develope as a genuine number 2 there?

Whilst Englands squad and test team seems to be taking shape in MJs mind ( well it seems like he already knew most of it before these games) it does look like Wales are a bit of a shambles.
Still England went into the last WC like that and did OK in the end.

I'd take making the final, Peter!

smirnoffpriest:

Agree with all your points, I think the injuries are worse than put out to the press, I suspect we won't see any of our first front row before the RWC or some of the other players 1/2 penny, Byrne, etc.

The bench cover is poor, no second row (is Bradley injured) as Ryan is injured, no 8 cover, no FB cover what is going on as we currently have a squad of 39 players and we can't field a complete team and bench without playing players out of position?

As pointed out above, I would bring in I Thomas also I Evans into the squad fast for the RWC as we are struggling in the front row and second row cover also R Jones can concentrate on 6 and 8.

Peter Seab - Shambles is the word.

And can anyone really say they are comfortable with 2 inexperienced flankers playing at lock (or 8), against a really physical English pack?
Turnbull (as I've seen a lot more of him than Tupric) does ok at lock for Scarlets, but only ok and you can see his true position is flanker, he's also too lightweight to play internationally at lock.

I'm not sure if it indicates how badly Hook has been training at 10 FHF (though it could be), but merely how Gatland thinks hooks a God who can slot in any position (probably Hooks lock cover as well), and play well, contrary to belief.

I think we'll see words like shocking and shambles used quite a lot in the next week...

Agree GlamAlun - but I hadn't even bothered hoping he'd bring in Iestyn or Evans (or Tovey) as we know Gatlands not going to do it and we equally know he'll prob play Yapp (saying he's showed up well in training) if we get another injury.

Fair enough we've got injuries - but that's Gatlands fault again as everytime he gets the team together he pushes them so hard that loads of players (mostly Scarlet players) drop out and he has to play a scratch side.

Some strange choices there and a very underpowered front 5. If we come out of that game with better than 30% possession I'll be amazed! I'm worried - it's pretty much a 1st choice England. Is Gatland keeping his powder dry? I think it's more important to make sure we win. We can ill afford a pointless stuffing off England. They won't be as undercooked as they were last weekend.

Surprised by the lack of changes in the Welsh team... thats by my count 11 players who started last week..... England on the other hand have made 13 changes to their starting line up... given its overall probably a stronger side then last week I would see England as favourites for the win.

Injuries or not surely Gatland should be trying to give match practice to his squad... especially since their 1st RWC match will be against SA.

Its certainly an exciting backline but I think England's forwards will dominate this side especially the scrum & lineout. Could starve the backline of any decent ball.

Hook at 15 is a seemingly mindless selection.... he has been the start 10 this season but hasn't played a match for a number of weeks. If he is going to be fighting for selection with Jones surely you play him.

If Gatland is worried about playing Preistland at 15 then why did he originally have him down as starting 15 last week? These games should be all about the world cup... if they lose so what.... if the extra game time with Hook running the plays allows Wales to be better prepared for their 1st match then it will be worth it.

fa0019 wrote:Surprised by the lack of changes in the Welsh team... thats by my count 11 players who started last week..... England on the other hand have made 13 changes to their starting line up... given its overall probably a stronger side then last week I would see England as favourites for the win.

Injuries or not surely Gatland should be trying to give match practice to his squad... especially since their 1st RWC match will be against SA.

Its certainly an exciting backline but I think England's forwards will dominate this side especially the scrum & lineout. Could starve the backline of any decent ball.

Hook at 15 is a seemingly mindless selection.... he has been the start 10 this season but hasn't played a match for a number of weeks. If he is going to be fighting for selection with Jones surely you play him.

If Gatland is worried about playing Preistland at 15 then why did he originally have him down as starting 15 last week? These games should be all about the world cup... if they lose so what.... if the extra game time with Hook running the plays allows Wales to be better prepared for their 1st match then it will be worth it.

Where have you read that Mr G is worried about playing Priestland at FB??...............I think its more he is worried having Hook at 10 than Priestland at 15. as Priestland has played very well there for the Scarlets last season and he chose him there last week when Jones was supposed to play 10, so you can only assume (big assumption mind!!) he is looking to bring Priestland as the second choice 10 going into the WC

Still think he should have played Hook at 10 or 12, and Henson at 12 or 10 on Saturday

Maybe this game should be abandoned after all

My opinion is that he still rates Hook (in any position) but as Priestland played so well last week he's kept the position, then Gats has looked at the rest of the team and thought 'where can I fit in Hook' and 'whose my best FB' and then has picked Hook there without a 2nd thought.

I also reckon, in typical Gatland way, that come the WC Hook will firmly be back in contention in either 10 or 12 and wouldn't be suprised if Priestland gets kept as 3rd choice no matter how well he plays.

But then I am cynical

Also this quote just does it for me:

"We need the win this weekend - it's as simple as that," said Gatland.

flyhalffactory

I hadn't read anywhere that Gatland was worried about Priestland at 15.... but why else would he deny Hook a chance to get back into the swing of running a match (who at worst is his 2nd choice 10) and put a guy who is never going to realistically compete for the 10 jersey at this RWC.

Its the only reason I can think of for not having Hook at 10 & Priestland at 15.... its not going to do Hook any good so in my mind the only reason is that he believes Wales are stronger with Hook at 15 & Priestland at 10 (even though Hook is a superior 10)... meaning that he feels Priestland is a worry at 15.

Its like MJ denying Toby Flood game time so that Charlie Hodgson can hone his skills for the all important RWC pool match against Romania.

Smirnoffpriest wrote:I also reckon, in typical Gatland way, that come the WC Hook will firmly be back in contention in either 10 or 12 and wouldn't be suprised if Priestland gets kept as 3rd choice no matter how well he plays.

But then I am cynical

If that's true, it makes even less sense for Hook to be playing full back on Saturday!

But going on past experience when Byrnes been injured Gats has always chosen to mess his side about by moving Hook to FB instead of blooding a proper FB and then shuffling his centres or half backs around to accomodate.

I didn't say it makes sense but he's done it in the past...

Not looking too bad for me, only real concern is front row..... any ideas what the real state of Jenkings, rees and Jones injuries are? Seems like he's saying their fit for most games then their not being selected?

I get the impression that Gats is playing the long game RE: Injuries.

Perhaps that Jenkins, Rees, Jones, Byrne, Ryan Jones, Hibbard, Steven Jones all have niggles. I get the impression if this was the 6N they'd all be ready to play. This way we don't run the risk of these niggles turning into full-blown injuries for the World Cup. Makes sense really.

Can we win this game though ? I can only see backs getting ball through turnovers.

Yeah, I'm a little worried too...but...

Our scrum won't be dominant but I think we should be able to get our own ball back, and the lineout should be ok (right!?). We do also have a mobile, powerful back-row that should do us ok in the loose.

I'm excited to see what this backline can do though!

Draigoch, I reckon our back row will have the upper hand over England's back row, and our second row is pretty mobile, if not perhaps as powerful as Deacon and Lawes. The scrums might not be pretty, though.

You say that Gatland's playing the long game with the World Cup in mind, but he's said himself today that we really need to win this match. Like a lot of things Gatland says and does, it doesn't add up.

I know, not looking forward to the scrums...

You never know, with Mat Stevens not scrumming across and this tight-5 having a bit more experience together we could at least get decent ball.

I don't think we'll be shoved around too much, but it's bizarre for Gatland to say that this is a must-win game and then not pick his first-choice tighthead.

jesus pessimism much people?

this is the most exciting backline wales have put out in years IMO, i hate the guy as a person but i hope you know who plays to his potential and with 100% commitment,

hook at full back was my only concern but then priestland did very well at short notice on sat so deserves the shirt,

yes the scrum didnt go well on sat but these two props got us through the 6n and i dont remember them getting a stuffing at any point? plus they will have been beasted in the week over the scrum so its a chance to get one back over their oppostite numbers,

shows how much alot of you pay attention to teams other than your own in the magners/pro 12, burns is a very good player and will carry as abrasively as smiler does, ive a little concern over his throwing but if they use charteris his regional teammate to good effect we should secure lineout ball,

charteris....the man is 6 10 (?) and 20 odd stone...how is that lightweight, and he puts in as many tackles as a flanker, he hsant the ball carrying ability of davies granted but if wales use him correctly in the lineout (as the dragons do) line outs should be safe and hopefyully put some pressure on england there too, for me wyn jones is the one who really needs to step his game up there

the back row is the same as last week

we have a very good chance of getting a good victory here, i rate some of the players who started last week for england higher than those that are starting this week so we have every reason to feel confident

COME ON WALES!

I'm not as worried as a lot of Welsh fans seem to be. remember England have changed almost their entire team, Wales do have 11 players who played last week in the team and will be match fit and fitter than England.
Luke Charteris is a massive bloke and adds a lot of weight and size to the pack. Charteris and Jones should give us a good chance to attack the England line out.
The scrums went badly at the start of the game last week, however it was the first time in 2 years we'd seen James and Mitchell unable to hold their own, however this did improve a lot in the second half. Primarily the problem was James against Stevens, but Stevens is on the bench this week. Finally it's no secret Adam Jones has been warned about his fitness, maybe Gatland feels Jones isn't ready for this game.

Just because the team says Hook is at full back doesn't mean Hook will play there, Gatland could easily pull a fast one and put Henson, or Priestland there, and switch players round quite easily during the game. Gatland loves playing games, so don't be suprised if he is trying to confuse England with this team.

The truth is the Welsh pack has more than held it's own against the England pack for the last 7 years, so there is no reason to be worried about over whelming dominance from England. I think their pack looks weaker this week than last.

the bench is my only concern, Gatland could of picked:

Huw Bennett
Gethin Jenkins
Ryan Jones
Martyn Williams
Dwayne Peel
Stephen Jones
Lee Bryne

We could of had plenty of experience there to try and squeeze out a tight game.

totally agree alyn