Wales team vs England

First topic message reminder :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/14437918.stm

Wales team to face England at Millennium Stadium on Saturday:

James Hook; George North; Jamie Roberts, Gavin Henson; Shane Williams; Rhys Priestland, Mike Phillips; Paul James, Lloyd Burns, Craig Mitchell, Luke Charteris, Alun Wyn Jones, Dan Lydiate, Sam Warburton, Toby Faletau

Replacements: Huw Bennett, Ryan Bevington, Josh Turnbull, Justin Tipuric, Tavis Knoyle, Scott Williams, Aled Brew



Im worried,

Hook at FB?
Burns and Mitchell rather than Jones and Rees
Charteris rather than B.Davies?
Preistland in only his 2nd start in a pivitol position

After seeing the England team...im worried.

What we need to remember is that we will not be selecting what some of you consider to be our first choice players for every game in the world cup.
How can he tell if a player is up to standard or not if he does not give them a opportunity to show what they can do against decent opposition.
Last week and this week are world cup warm up games these are the games we experiment in when we go down under it will be too late then.

I admire your optimism DragonGavin - but it's a very big IF Henson plays at a 100% (as it's a big IF he plays like he did against the Baba's), and Wales have never done well with Hook at FB, he's both wasted and a liability there.

But none of this will matter if we can't win good ball and while both our props showed up well in the 6Nations, they didn't last week and this England pack would muller last weeks England pack.

I wasn't (and didn't notice many other posters) have a go at Chateris, but more on why Jones is partnering him instead of Davies. I like Chateris and think he deserves his shot at getting a first choice spot, but I don't think the scrum is his strong point.

just out of interest (and not having a go) who do you rate higher in last weeks England team?

for me the only ones I can see are Tuilagi, care, Hartley (of course), and maybe Croft instead of Flourie.

i dont think this enlgand pack is that much better than last weeks

steve thompson is 2nd choice
dan cole also (did he not start against us in 6n?) in which scrum was fairly even? therefore id say stevens is stronger
deacon and palmer much of a muchness
lawes is obv better than shaw and will be as big to them as davies is for us
wood vs croft? croft everytime
fourie vs moody? moody every time
easter vs haskell? i think haskeel is more dynamic and abrasive than easter

backs wise i think the halfback pairing was stronger lask week tuilagi obv


i back james and mitchell to have worked on the scrum all week and come out and look to at least gain parity in that area,

the lineout if they use the burns charteris connection should in theory work well

i agree with you on davies we will miss his hard yards

dont see too much of a preoblem with hook at fb with henson in the centre we have hooks vision and passing ability (although completely agree its a big IF if he plays) but if he doesnt play well sat thats it last chance done and dusted

Having looked at the Wales team selection for Saturday I have a few concerns regarding certain areas. Here's what I think of the selection.
Front row
The front row will again struggle come Saturday. James and Mitchell need to up their game as they were both very poor at Twickenham. Lloyd Burns is gamble. I've been impressed with Burns when he has come on for Wales but for this match we should have started with (dare I say it) Huw Bennett. Bennett didn't do a lot wrong last week and feel he has been a little hard done by here. I would have been happy for Burns to start against Argentina but not against England, a game we really need to win to boost morale and confidence. It seems the injuries to Jenkins, Rees and A.Jones are worse than the Welsh management are letting on. England’s front 5 is more powerful than ours and it looks like the front row are in for a long afternoon.

2nd Row
Luke Charteris is player I like at Regional level but never in a month of Sundays is he an International standard player. He’ll need to have a big game on Saturday as he’s never really impressed me in a Wales shirt. Seems odd to me that Bradley Davies is not in the team. Davies absence will be felt as Wales will be missing that physical, ball carrying aspect that Bradley brings which both AWJ and especially Charteris lack. It will interesting to see how this partnership works.

Back Row
6 and 7 picks itself now and Toby Faletau has been effective at 8. What I want to know is why Gareth Delve is not included? It’s because of injury as we know that he’s playing in a friendly for Melbourne on the weekend. This would have been a perfect game for Delve to show what he can do. It seems that Delve has fallen victim to Gatland’s dodgy man management.

Half Backs
The half backs I have an issue with. Firstly although some claim Phillips had a decent game last week I still felt he was too slow and predictable. I would start with Knoyle to get some quick ball and momentum and let Phillips come on for the last 20 mins or so. My ideal choice would be Dwayne Peel but again his absence is not fully explained. Rhys Preistland did well at Twickenham but I would have started with Hook at 10. Let’s not forget that Preistland was picked to play at FB last week and only started there due to a last minute injury to S.Jones. Hook needs game time at 10 plus Gatland did say in the press conference this afternoon that Hook will probably play at 10 for the Argentina game.Hook had a good game against Scotland and a man of the match performance against Ireland in this years 6 Nations. I see no logic in playing Hook at 15 this week and then 10 next week.

Centres
Centre selection I agree with. I just hope that Gavin Henson has a good game. We need him to recapture his Grand Slam form. Problem is a lack of game time may prevent that which begs the question why was he not selected for Twickenham last week?

Back Three
Agree with the wing selection but not the full back position. Hook will have little or no influence playing at full back. By picking him at 15 we’ve taken him out of the game imo. This selection I know divides a lot of supporters but I think Hook should not be picked at 15.

Our bench looks weak and having no proper 2nd row cover concerns me a great deal. This is a game that we really need to win. .We have won just four of our last 17 Tests and need the boost of confidence that victory against the old enemy would bring. However with Gatland’s odd team selection I don’t think we will. I really hope I’m wrong.

I feel better just reading those posts boys - Nice one - Come on Walessssssssssssssssssssssss!

I have a horrible suspicion that yet again Gavin will be a last minute withdrawal with a "calf niggle" as he will have served his purpose in boosting ticket sales.
Am I being overly cynical?We shall see.

Londonwelsh wrote:Seems odd to me that Bradley Davies is not in the team.

I imagine it has something to do with the fact that his form has dropped off and he's not the player he was in his first season for Wales.

Luckless - I see the Bradley ommission as a consequence of the fact that he's the only nailed on 2nd row we have and Gats is looking for a partner for him since AWJ is a bit lightweight of late and has been found wanting.

Hook at FB, perhaps Gatland has been watching the video of last seasons French match. I would have picked him at 13 where he has played well in the past, with JD or Roberts at 12.

Henson, he must be FANTASTIC in training because he has done nothing on the pitch!

Big concerns about the front 5 though, it could be a long afternoon chasing shadows!

Biggest concern is the bench, Bevington can't scrumage, Turnbull is a 7 not a lock and Tuperic is a promising but has a long way to go. At least Bennett played well last week.

2 Main concerns...

Front row-our biggest weakness right now, there's a good chance we won't see Jenkins or Adam in the World Cup based on their current injury record, so I can see why Gatland is giving the other boys game time.

Henson- Big risk, if his defence is as woeful as v the BaBa's England could exploit. However it's between him and Scott Williams for that extra Centre position so got to give him a chance. I hope it comes off.


Apart from that, Backrow looks great, Phillips much improved and close to his best, plenty of dangerous backs that broke the gainline last week.

Before last weeks game I was very happy with James and Mitchell propping as both had strong 6 Nations.

They both struggled last week and with no news on Jenkins coming out of the Welsh camp and Jones not being picked this week both need to up their game hugely if we are to be competitive.

Delve should be there not sat on the bench at the Rec FFS

After taking some time to think about it, I'm not actually that disappointed with the team selection, given our injuries to certain players.

Although I'd have liked to have seen Delve given his Super15 form, I'm glad Faletau is given game time against good opposition, he didn't look too out of place in the last games he played even if he made a few mistakes here and there, hes still probably our most nimble 8.

Priestland is a strange choice for me, he played well last week given the notice, I wonder now if he can take it to another level having been training for that position all week, competition is always good and I'm sure he and Hook can interchange during the match. The only difference I would have made is maybe starting Hook at 13 and JD2/Henson at 12 and playing Roberts at fullback.

The other questionable decision is the bench, I'm not sure where our 2nd row cover is, but I'm pretty certain Turnbull has played lock at some point for the Scarlets last season, he is an intelligent player and I wouldn't mind having an additional flanker who knows how to cause problems at the breakdown for England.

Like always, I would like to see the forwards really going for it tomorrow, they need to up their aggression at the breakdown, slow the English ball down the same way Ireland did to them in the 6nations. England are developing into a quality side and I wouldn't be ashamed if we lost again, but I do think we can win tomorrow if we upped our intensity, if we truly are a fitter side we should be able to play with a pace they shouldn't be able to keep up with for long.

Remember that there is still the Argentina game to tinker with a few more changes, I think the coaching staff know what they're doing, but they are taking a few risks with this game. Is the win the most important thing here or building depth?

We have every reason to worry. What ever you think of MJ's selection he clearly believes certain players are his first choice and he's picked close to his best back line. The front five will stuff us.

Our back row will hold their own but as last week showed with the front five on the back foot we won't get enough ball. The one thing we know about Hook at 15 is that he's not good enough. Phillips is way off being back to his best and is still too slow. For a big lad he is asking nothing around the fringe. As for Henson - waste of space.

For a must win game I predict once again having to look at a grumpy Gatland making excuses as to why it didn't work. I can also safely predict that Phillips will pass at least 10 times to a forward standing still!

IronMike wrote:Like always, I would like to see the forwards really going for it tomorrow, they need to up their aggression at the breakdown

Well said. We counter-rucked and won the ball midway through the first half last Saturday, but instead of taking encouragement from that, we were happy to let them have the ball the rest of the time. I want to see us counter-rucking at every opportunity.

I still can't see why he is persisiting with Hook at XV, surely he must see it hasn't worked.

I would have rather seen Priestland or Halfpenny there (if he's fit) with Hook at 10.

Hook will be kicking a lot of the ball to Foden from full back IMO and Foden will show him what a top class full back should be doing with it. Foden needs to be tackled first up or he will rip Wales to shreds.

I'm worried too but not because of the original posters note.

Burns was miles better than Bennett (I'm not sure what I'm doing here) Bennett. Actually Burns I think will carry well and really give us an option in that area.

Charteris is probably the best lineout forward in Wales at the moment. Bradley is the best enforcer around in Wales. A. W. Jones is neither. He's been totally rubbish and England walked all over him last week. Personally I would have liked to see Davies & Charteris in there.

I never worry about Paul James. Always gives 100% and is solid in the Scrum. I'm still not convinced about Mitchell but playing Adam this weekend would be dangerous.

I'm guessing Gatlands rested a couple of key players incase of injury.

The backrow is fine and I reckon Falatau will probably be the starting 8 for Wales.

The Roberts & Henson combination could work but to be honest what Henson needs outside him is someone with a bit more gas and better feet than Roberts. Personally I think a Henson/ Davies combo would have been a better attacking threat. Still this one could work very well and Roberts is superb in defence. On the downside Henson might not be at the races but I have a funny feeling he will have a good game.

The wingers are fine and I'm not disappointed to see Priestland at 10.

But Hook at 15 just destroys all the good work. He wont offer the attacking threat of a specialist and defensivly will likely be all at see. Neither him or Henson can play there so why bother? I'm gutted Stoddart is out but Gatland really needed to look at his selection and I would have even drafted Dan Evans or B. Davies back in. Hook should have been on the bench and come on at 10.

Will it have an impact? Yep because I dont think A.W. Jones and Mitchell will give enough brute strength in the front 5 so I'm expecting to lose that battle against the English. Phillips I think will kill our fast game at 9 so cant see us getting the ball to the backs enough and in defence Hooks fraility at not playing the position regularly will show when attacked by Foden & Co.

This game will base won by possesion and I reckon if England secure 50% they will win. Anymore and it could be a big win. For Wales to win this I reckon they will need to have 60% (if not more) to beat England.

I really do hope I'm wrong though.....

luckless_pedestrian wrote:

IronMike wrote:Like always, I would like to see the forwards really going for it tomorrow, they need to up their aggression at the breakdown

Well said. We counter-rucked and won the ball midway through the first half last Saturday, but instead of taking encouragement from that, we were happy to let them have the ball the rest of the time. I want to see us counter-rucking at every opportunity.

Correct. I was making a bit of an idiot of myself shouting at the tv in the pub "counter ruck". But it really frustrates me and so I couldn't help myself. You'd think when they had the success at doing it once, it might encourage them, but no such luck.

Rev, I'm sure it's all about keeping our defensive structure - but the point is if we counter-ruck, get turnover ball and shift it, they'll be scrambling in defence. It's the best kind of ball you can get and worth the risk.

Backline is dangerous, apart from Hook at fullback. Definitely would have moved Priestland back there, he's a good 10 and 15. Potential to either gain parity or get mashed up front, parity won't be enough. I think the England team is quite limited, but that may be enough to win still.

If Hook isn't playing at 10 then a centre partnership of Hook/Henson would be my choice - Roberts played 15 at under 20 level and although he had a fair game last week I feel guile/creativity and not brawn would unlock the English defense.