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Sorry D4 but your getting ludicrous now

The counter check hook that Mayweather put Hatton down with was a thing of perfection, with regards to Donaire his left hook doesn't actually compare to Martinez's against Williams.

For once stop talking about the same thing over and over again, we get it you don't like Mayweather

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Think it's about time you stop being an idiot

Having more power doesn't make you a better counter puncher, with counter punching it's all about avoiding your opponents punch and countering with your own, now there isn't a single boxer around today who comes near Mayweathers ability to do that. For starters Martinez, Marquez and Mayweather are all better counter punchers than Donaire, Mayweather had counter punched Hatton into submission then delivered the perfect check hook, it may not have carried the same kind of power but from a technical standpoint it was superior.

Mayweather tackles each fight in a different way so to call him primarily defensive is ignoring his immense adaptability.

Against Gatti, Mosley and the second half of the Judah fight he was the one moving forward, against Hatton and Chavez he outbrawled them, against De La Hoya he was moving back, working off the ropes. That adaptability is what makes Mayweather such an awkward counter puncher because no matter what you do he always has an answer

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Sorry but your just an imbecile

You should probably have a look at which boxer is head and shoulders above everyone else with their connect percentage differential, Floyd is something like +25%, which is almost 10% more than any other boxer

I'm not discrediting Montiel here but he is fairly one dimensional, you always know what he's going to try and do, so in that sense is relatively easy to counter punch

41-0 says that Mayweathers counter punching hasn't failed

Hi guys, just a polite reminder not to insult eachother please.

Debate & banter is fine, but no name calling etc

Cheers
Y I Man

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Hardly a relevant stat considering the top fighters at the lower weights are younger than those at the higher weights

You do realise you can still counter punch while taking the fight to someone or have you never watched Marquez vs Pacquiao

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But he still counter punched didn't he, he adapted and won convincingly

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This your way of trying to say that Donaire is far superior to Mayweather isn't it?

Face facts, Mayweather is the best counter puncher out there

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Mayweather is a better counterpuncher than Donaire.

Although Mayweather is not nearly as untouchable in this aspect as you have him ghosty. Your continued reference to "that check hook that floored Hatton" is becoming tedious as well - Floyd's counter punching was much better displayed in some of his previous performances - Gatti for instance. Or Collazo.

"I would say Donaire is better, and here are my reason why."

Let me guess-because. Donaire is Filipino, because you want to discredit Mayweather at every opportunity, because you have nothing better to think about, because you need to get out more, because it's an actual impossibility for you to give Mayweather any kind of compliment..? Am I right?

This constant regurgitation of the same rubbish is boring.

Dear Mods: how about just merging into one thread each and every single thread of D4's that mentions any of the following: Pacquiao, Mayweather, Filipinos, ducking, fighter of the year, fight of the year and court cases? It'd help immensely to keep all the dross in one place. Thanks.

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BALTIMORA wrote:

Dear Mods: how about just merging into one thread each and every single thread of D4's that mentions any of the following: Pacquiao, Mayweather, Filipinos, ducking, fighter of the year, fight of the year and court cases? It'd help immensely to keep all the dross in one place. Thanks.

Hi BALTIMORA, welcome to the board
If an article is of the same subject as other ones, then yes they will be merged.
But this is different to other polls and dabates currently on the section.

Cheers
Y I Man

Y I Man wrote:

Hi BALTIMORA, welcome to the board
If an article is of the same subject as other ones, then yes they will be merged.
But this is different to other polls and dabates currently on the section.

Cheers
Y I Man

I hate to be awkward - as I genuinely rate D4 as a poster - he has excellent boxing knowledge.

There does tend to be an agenda to articles - and this one is once again - whether Floyd is not as good as people say and Donare is in fact the better counter-puncher - ie yet more Floyd-bashing.

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Fair enough.

I'd say that Floyd has proved himself over a hugely long period.

Donaire, meanwhile, is still young yet, although in a hugely rich vein of form. Donaire has time and talent to end up on top of the world. But it would be a brave man to discount Floyd yet.

Slater, an excellent boxing journalist, writes well on the subject here:

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=26963&more=1

Duly noted, Y I Man. Just got massively fed up of a certain someone's less than subtle WUMming on the old 606, and it's a tad disappointing to see it continuing on here.

I just twigged on that username too. D'oh!

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This is getting ridiculously silly now D4. Floyd is P4P the best boxer on the planet. He may not carry the greatest one punch power, but neither did Ali. Floyd's counterpunching ability is a thing of beauty and violent poetry to watch. He is the best in the business at that.

I saw the fight last night and the Mexican was open to all sorts of punches. I'd be surprised if he wasn't drained and this guy is supposed to be the best at his weight? Not taking anything away from Donnaire who did what he had to do and did it with utter violence and brilliantly. But to compare him to Floyd in counter-punching is to compare a Ferari with a VW.

Of course its Mayweather - how can you even make the comparison now? Floyd has fought many levels above where Donaire has fought - for a very long time. Can you honestly compare Montiel, Darchinyan and Concepcion to Zab Judah, Castillo, Hatton, ODLH, Marquez etc???

Donaire still has a long way to go - counter punching is a lot easier if your level of opposition is vastly beneath you (no disrespect to Montiel).

Give it 5 years and then you will have a level playing field to base your comparisons on. Donaire needs to move up a weight or two - and take on some huge names. Then we will see how good he is at countering.

I'm no great fan of weight hopping in order to prove how good you are. For me its neither here nor there. But what you say is correct. He needs some longevity to prove himself. To compare him to Floyd in any area of boxing is plain stupid.

Unfortunely for Donaire - he will need to move up as he has pretty much beaten everyone in his own weight class bar a couple of fights. Some potential corkers out there - Gamboa and Juanma would be spectacular.

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D4thincarnation wrote:It far from stupid most experts can appreciate Donaire counter punching skills.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCvxRx3zkMw

Here is a good interview, where Donaire talks about his radar and his ability to see everything.

Seem like Donaire is going down the Pacquiao route and his taking up singing as well

All experts should appreciate his awesomme skills. Whose arguing against that? Its just that Floyd's skills are on another planet altogether. Floyd is simply far superior to any other active boxer and imo better that any boxer since RJJ in him pomp.

Floyd raps also 8)

Not sure he wants to just yet - he said after the fight that he wants to unify the division - fair play to him. Thats what he should do first.

Personally i give more kudos to fighters who win their first title, unify the division and then defend the straps for a year or two before moving up.

Countless catchweight stipulations has taken the shine from Pacmans multi weight achievements, but this thread isnt about Pacmans so I will leave it there.

Donaire is the future IMO. I think he is a fantastic boxer with a very likeable personality. He will go far. I hope he fights on our shores one day.

Dazstarr wrote:Not sure he wants to just yet - he said after the fight that he wants to unify the division - fair play to him. Thats what he should do first.

Personally i give more kudos to fighters who win their first title, unify the division and then defend the straps for a year or two before moving up.

Countless catchweight stipulations has taken the shine from Pacmans multi weight achievements, but this thread isnt about Pacmans so I will leave it there.

Donaire is the future IMO. I think he is a fantastic boxer with a very likeable personality. He will go far. I hope he fights on our shores one day.

Agreed. Wiight stpiulations at such weights Donaire fights at will be silly given that there's a couple of pound difference between weights. He can eat a big mac and fight at feather is he wanted to.

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The smaller guys dont have as much talent as the 140+ divisions D4. You know this. Just because Montiel is a 3 weight champ - it doesnt mean he is better than say Hatton was at 140 even though he only held one title. Belts don't mean much these days. I must emphasise I am not taking anything away from Montiel and his acheivements - i simply believe that Floyd has fought a higher level of opposition. A much higher level. This isnt even up for debate.

Now the Ricky Burns fight would be good. But Ricky needs to hold on to his belt for a couple of years - may prove tricky! But I hope he does. Ricky is a decent fighter but would be out of his depth with Donaire. Donaire is in the elite league of fighters and they dont come round often.

D4thincarnation wrote:Notice how the Smitty says he has never seen anyone with that type of radar since RJJ in his prime.

Montiel a veteran of 40+ fights never been stopped, never been outclassed and Donaire made him look like an amateur and stopped him in two.

What has Floyd done to compare?

Montiel is also a 3 weight world champion, only the 4th Mexican to do this and could very well win a title at a 4th weight and become the only Mexican to do so.

Even the unbiased punch stats say Donaire is the better counter puncher.

Opinions are like a***holes. Everyone has one. What has Floyd done? Beaten the very best boxers are their weight (Marquez being the only exception). Beat ODLH at his preferred weight (no stipulations), schooled SSM, schooled Marquez, Judah, Castillo and every other boxer who has stepped into the ring to face him. He has an 0. Something your boys do not have.

Dazstarr wrote:The smaller guys dont have as much talent as the 140+ divisions D4. You know this. Just because Montiel is a 3 weight champ - it doesnt mean he is better than say Hatton was at 140 even though he only held one title. Belts don't mean much these days. I must emphasise I am not taking anything away from Montiel and his acheivements - i simply believe that Floyd has fought a higher level of opposition. A much higher level. This isnt even up for debate.

Dont agree with the first statement. Wonjongkam, Donaire, Montiel, Agbeko, Mares, Mijares, Nishioka, Lopez, Gamboa, John, Caballero, Hasegawa, rafa Marquez, JM Marquez all fight below 140lb. The talent pool between fly and feather in particular is enormous. Bantam and feather are the two most talent rich divisions in boxing right now.

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:

Dazstarr wrote:The smaller guys dont have as much talent as the 140+ divisions D4. You know this. Just because Montiel is a 3 weight champ - it doesnt mean he is better than say Hatton was at 140 even though he only held one title. Belts don't mean much these days. I must emphasise I am not taking anything away from Montiel and his acheivements - i simply believe that Floyd has fought a higher level of opposition. A much higher level. This isnt even up for debate.

Dont agree with the first statement. Wonjongkam, Donaire, Montiel, Agbeko, Mares, Mijares, Nishioka, Lopez, Gamboa, John, Caballero, Hasegawa, rafa Marquez, JM Marquez all fight below 140lb. The talent pool between fly and feather in particular is enormous. Bantam and feather are the two most talent rich divisions in boxing right now.

Fair enough mate - probably didnt phrase it right - i meant in terms of 'super champions' and elite level fighters.

Wongjonkam is a "super champion" and "elite level fighter" - he's a great great ATG.

The major reason that the lower weight classes are ignored is because of lower public interest.

There isn't a US champion below LW - and hasn't been for a while - so the US don't take interest. Since Hamed - there hasn't been the interest in the UK either.

This doesn't mean the people below LWW aren't elite level though - quite the opposite, the likes of Montiel, Donaire, Wonjongkam, Darchinyan are absolutely elite level - and arguably a class above many of the so called "top fighters" at higher weights.