Howley telling porkies about peel??

First topic message reminder :

Howley went to the press to explain that peel is unfit but apparently he is fully fit, has been for the last 3 weeks and will be playing for Sale friday?

Gats and co seem to have a real downer on him for some reason, personally I'd have him in my 22 any day of the week

agree or disagree?

Smirnoffpriest wrote:Maesteg in that article Gatland is saying Sale told him on the 8th of August last week that Peel had a hip injury and Gats goes on to say that he's not in contact training, yet Peel and Diamond are saying (in the original article) he's fighting fit and is in full contact training. So someone must be lying, or there is a god awful communication problem somewhere.

Doesn't detract from the point that he probably wouldn't have gotten into the squad anyway, but it strikes of minds games and unprofessionalism.

I really don't think there is anything of importance here at all. Certainly not machiavellian cover ups and secret agendas. Peel isn't considered fit enough to play for Wales. Wales have much higher standards of what is considered fit or not. Especially considering that the PRL have prevented him from doing 20 days worth of important conditioning work.

Thank god we have strength and depth at scrum half.

I honestly think that when people are considering this debate, they simply think of the '2005 - 2007' Peel, as the majority of us haven’t seen him play since - and if even if you were watching the GP at the time, he was behind Wigglesworth at Sale for three seasons.

When you consider the '2011' Peel, I really don’t think that this is a big deal.

A lot has changed from the Peel era and I for one am happy with the inclusion of Knoyle and Williams. And don’t forget that Phillips looks like the has the hunger back, so all good really.

PS: Also has anyone noticed that Mike Phillips is consciously not taking that annoying first step off his right hand pass, still does it on his left, but it’s a start.

polotechnics, I saw him pass the ball off the ground a couple of times too - I couldn't believe my eyes!

Slightly off subject but a colleague mentioned yesterday that he's heard Phillips has a major drink problem and has gone off the rails since Duffy left, and thats why he hasn't been focused or playing well and the reason behind the McDonalds problem.

Could be reasonable, if the Poland camps were dry as has been said by some of the players - it could say why Phillips looks to be playing a lot better - if he's sobered up and got away from everything in Poland.

But it does seem a bit outlandish to think someone can perform to a professional level in a physically demanding sport half cut - but then I suppose Tony Adams did it for years...

If that's true then fair play to him for getting it together. He's certainly playing much better than he had for a while.

And Bennett is a better thrower than Burns, it's all relative.

Regarding Peel it sounds like he WAS injured and therefore couldn't train. That's why he wasn't picked. Howley possiby stuffed it up by saying he wasn't picked because he was injured (was as in past tense).

Williams and Knoyle have looked very sharp over the last few weeks. Lets hope young Williams gets a bit of game time too.

I remember Dwayne Peel going on a Wales tour of North America a couple of years back, how come Sale and the players Union (or whatever it's called) let him go on that, but not the world cup training?

I imagine the N American tour was within the international window (so clubs have to release players), Sale have released Peel to join the Wales squad from the 4th of August but Gatland doesn't want him.

Anything outside of the window the nations have to ask the clubs (or governing bodies) permission to use the players.

looks like it was Sale telling porkies about Peel then, well their chief exec. anyhow, here's Gatland's reply

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/14582184.stm


the plot gets thicker!

I dont think it changes much- peel and diamond r saying 1 thing and gats is sayin another - it all depends on who u believe

it seems to change everything, Gatland's been talking to Tony Hanks, who's their new coach, about Peel, I'm sure his info is more reliable than Steve Diamond.

Why all the fuss?
Wales have several better players than Peel anyway, and him not taking provisions with his club contract, to keep his Wales squad status has slit his own throat as far as his international career is concerned.
Why should he be allowed to skip the Poland training caps, when other scrum halves are sweating buckets and busting a gut to play for Wales?
The only person who has screwed over Peel, is Peel.

the fuss here isn't over Peel being not picked, it's about Gatland getting slagged off for saying injury is the reason and Sale saying he's wrong.

My worry is this. If Phillips does get injured(this may be a blessing), we don't have any experience at 9.
Knoyle makes his 1st start tomorrow and Lloyd williams hasn't played a minutes rugby for Wales and has only 8 regional starts.
This may not be a problem, because as we've seen, these crop of youngstes may lack experience, but don't lack in ability.
But, when you're playing the top nations eg. SA or Australia, you will come up short.
I'm not richie rees' biggest fan, but as he's got international experience and is ahead of Lloyd Williams at the blues and more importantly, seems to suitwales' style of play you'd think he'd be involved.
As for peel. I'm not sure what he's done wrong. Popham went the same way. It seems, once you cross warren you've had it. Popham did, Rhys Thomas did and so too peel. When you think in the build up to the WC Wales have only played Rees, Phillips and cooper at 9. We have potential, but no experience under phillips.

Turkster wrote:the fuss here isn't over Peel being not picked, it's about Gatland getting slagged off for saying injury is the reason and Sale saying he's wrong.

I agree it's up to gatland who he picks but why say a player is injured when he clearly isn;t? just say I prefer the other 9's

I think young williams is a talent but better than a fit peel? no chance

Isn't this a case of the media picking players rather than the coaches...you have supposed journos with an an agenda who seem to think form is irrelevant. true peel is experienced and would be a great call up if required and fit but there are simply better choices. it raises the question whether Henson would have got a look in had the press not made it their mission to get him back in red.

AlynDavies wrote:
The only person who has screwed over Peel, is Peel.

no it's the PRL

maestegmafia wrote:no it's the PRL

No mate, there have been endless problems with Wales and the PRL for years, and well before Peel went to Sale. Peel clearly didn't have the foresight to cover himself with Wales, prior to singing for Sale.

jb1973 wrote:


I agree it's up to gatland who he picks but why say a player is injured when he clearly isn;t? just say I prefer the other 9's

I think young williams is a talent but better than a fit peel? no chance

there's doesn't seem to be a 'clearly isn't' though, not if Gatland's being told one thing and Peel & Diamond are saying another, read this

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/14582184.stm

maestegmafia wrote:no it's the PRL

No, it's not. Please stop this persecution rubbish.

Thanks in advance.

AlynDavies wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:no it's the PRL

No mate, there have been endless problems with Wales and the PRL for years, and well before Peel went to Sale. Peel clearly didn't have the foresight to cover himself with Wales, prior to singing for Sale.

Peel is a victim of the way that the PRL rule English rugby. The RFU are the official governing body but the RFU have no backbone when dealing with the larger financed clubs in England.

All English clubs have to comply with PRL rules...full stop. Irrespective of what Peel had in his contract, if the WRU wont cough up for the privilage, he is not availble outside the international window.

It's nothing to do with the RFU, not even sure why you're mentioning them

Some facts for you.

The IRB states the periods of times that players are to be made available to their national sides.
Peel doesn't have a clause in his contract which allows him to be released from his club outside of the IRB sanctioned release periods
The RFU gives money to the PRL sides for additional release of the EPS players outside of the IRB stated periods.
No foreign PRL player goes to his national side outside of the IRB sanctioned release periods unless his national body has an agreement with PRL.
The WRU has no agreement with PRL for additional release of players outside the IRB sanctioned release periods.

The only people with any blame are the WRU and Dwayne Peel himself.

Seagultaf wrote:All English clubs have to comply with PRL rules...full stop. Irrespective of what Peel had in his contract, if the WRU wont cough up for the privilage, he is not availble outside the international window.

Luckily there isn't at decent Welsh players plying their game in the English league.

Though i would be interested to see what happened if London Welsh were Promoted next year and had some decent welsh players we wanted to use.

maestegmafia wrote:

Seagultaf wrote:All English clubs have to comply with PRL rules...full stop. Irrespective of what Peel had in his contract, if the WRU wont cough up for the privilage, he is not availble outside the international window.

Luckily there isn't at decent Welsh players plying their game in the English league.

Though i would be interested to see what happened if London Welsh were Promoted next year and had some decent welsh players we wanted to use.

Well, you would hope that the WRU would get its shop in order and make arrangements for their release. It's not difficult to work out.

maestegmafia wrote:
Luckily there isn't at decent Welsh players plying their game in the English league.

Though i would be interested to see what happened if London Welsh were Promoted next year and had some decent welsh players we wanted to use.

The players would have to do what the English players have to do when playing abroad. Have a clause in their contract allowing them to be released outside of the IRB sanctioned international release periods. Or the WRU will have to come to an agreement with PRL for the release of players.

Hopefully by the end of this forthcoming season the RFU ill have grown a backbone.

maestegmafia wrote:Hopefully by the end of this forthcoming season the RFU ill have grown a backbone.

Surely you mean the WRU ?

How many times do you need to be told that it has nothing to do with the RFU.

The RFU pays the PRL clubs for the privilege of the EPS players to be released outside of the IRB sanctioned international release periods. The WRU knows what it needs to come to an agreement with PRL to allow the same access to Welsh players. Is it really that hard to understand ?

Who cares?

He was good 6 years ago.

Plus he took the cash knowing he may jeapordise his international future.

krusty wrote:Who cares?

He was good 6 years ago.

Plus he took the cash knowing he may jeapordise his international future.

It is the very sad truth, he has played for a poor team and not taken the glory he expected.

I always really liked Peel and saw him as a proud, true Scarlet, and Welshman. I thought that he would take the earliest opportunity to return home after the time he had had over the last two seasons. I fear that players who are foreign to the country they play in are not looked after as well as if they were under the guidance of their own union.

This seemed very evident when after the Welsh coaches stated Peel was not fit that Sale RFC's lower standards passed him as fit causing the theme for this thread.

Luckily for Peel and Sale RFC Tony Hanks has moved to the club and will hopefully give better guidance. He is certainly more trusted by the WRU.

Maesteg do you read your own quotes? On the previous page you quoted Gatland in the BBC saying the reason Peel wasn't picked was because he wasn't fit enough for full training earlier in the month. Not that he wasn't fit now.

This article was started because of Howley's poor communication skills saying he wasn't fit rather than making it clear it was because he hadn't been fit for full training.

HammerofThunor wrote:Maesteg do you read your own quotes? On the previous page you quoted Gatland in the BBC saying the reason Peel wasn't picked was because he wasn't fit enough for full training earlier in the month. Not that he wasn't fit now.

This article was started because of Howley's poor communication skills saying he wasn't fit rather than making it clear it was because he hadn't been fit for full training.

The guy isn't fit enough to play for Wales.

Howley is not responsible for the misleading nature of this story.

Read the headlines.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/welsh/14582184.stm

Key quote is

We did receive an email from the Sale physio on 8 August to say that he did have a problem with his hip, that he wasn't taking a part in contact during training and so we used that information to make our judgement at that stage not to have included him.

He's saying that Sale said he wasn't in full contact training as of 8th August, Peel says he was in full contact training since July.

HammerofThunor wrote:Key quote is

We did receive an email from the Sale physio on 8 August to say that he did have a problem with his hip, that he wasn't taking a part in contact during training and so we used that information to make our judgement at that stage not to have included him.

He's saying that Sale said he wasn't in full contact training as of 8th August, Peel says he was in full contact training since July.

So Gatland, Hanks and Howley all agree that Peel is not fit enough to be considered, but the press say Peel says he is. Steve Diamond isnt involved with day to day coaching at Sale apparently, so his opinion is worthless.

I would say that all players consider themselves fit enough to play for their country, but the coaches and their fitness experts not only know better, but are also the ones who make the decisions.

It's not about how fit people consider him to be, that's obviously subjective - so too is if he is good enough to be in the squad.

The point I think people are annoyed with is that Howley and Gatland have stated that he wasn't picked because 1. he's injured, specifically his Hip and Finger and 2. He isn't fit and hasn't been attending full contact training.

Peel and Sale then say he's recovered from his injuries in June and been in full contact training since July.

So that shows that the above reasons couldn't have been the reasons for Gatland not to take him, so why lie?