606v2 Lightweight Rankings

Having returned from an alcohol fueled weekend thought i'd start us of with the lightweights, it's at this point I start to struggle as with the exception of the odd boxer here and there my interest as we go down in weight also decreases.

1. Duran
2. Leonard
3. Gans
4. Williams
5. Whitaker
6. Canzoneri
7. Ross
8. Ambers
9. Welsh
10. Armstrong
11. Ortiz
12. Mosley
13. Nelson
14. Chavez
15. Arguello

Can imagine the age old debate of where to rank boxers like Arguello and Chavez will rage on as their tenure at the weight was that long but feel the men above are of such quality it doesn't reflect badly on their overall ability.

Ghosty did you get my British P4P list, everybody's messages disappeared over the weekend, all mine have come back but the P4P list is gone from my outbox.

I didn't get it mate, was wondering where all my messages went

Ayup Ghosty, glad at least one of us had a good weekend! On to the 135 lb men....

1) Roberto Duran
2) Benny Leonard
3) Pernell Whitaker
4) Ike Williams
5) Joe Gans
6) Carlos Ortiz
7) Tony Canzoneri
8) Lou Ambers
9) Wesley Ramey
10) Joe Brown
11) Beau Jack
12) Barney Ross
13) Ad Wolgast
14) Jimmy Carter
15) Julio Cesar Chavez

1 Leonard
2 Duran
3 Gans
4 Canzoneri
5 Whitaker
6 Williams
7 Ross
8 Armstrong
9 Ambers
10 Welsh
11 Ortiz
12 Chavez
13 Arguello
14 Nelson
15 Blackburn

Starting to get tricky now these, as division hopping becomes more of an issue, ask me in about an hour and you may well get a different answer, hell you may even get a different top three

Imperial Ghosty wrote:I didn't get it mate, was wondering where all my messages went

No problem mate i'll get it done again, hopefully you get your messages back i think all mine are back now.

Getting a bit tired of lists......

The Galveston Giant wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:I didn't get it mate, was wondering where all my messages went

No problem mate i'll get it done again, hopefully you get your messages back i think all mine are back now.

Got all the ones back from before the weekend

Ghosty, are we including superfeathers ?

I think the way they were talking that anything sent over the weekend (although i'm sure i did it Friday) would disappear into Limbo.

1) Benny Leonard 2) Roberto Duran 3) Pernell Whitaker 4) Joe Gans 5) Ike Williams 6) Tony Canzoneri 7) Carlos Ortiz 8)Barney Ross 9) Lou Ambers 10) Henry Armstrong 11) Julio Cesar Chavez 12) Alexis Arguello 13) Freddie Welsh 14) Oscar de la Hoya 15) Packey McFarland

Strong mentions besides for men such as Battling Nelson, Sammy Angott, Beau Jack, Bob Montgomery, Wes Ramey, Joe Brown, Hector Camacho and Shane Mosley. Very difficult division to sort out, I must say.

1. Duran
2. Leonard
3. Gans
4. Whitaker
5. Williams
6. Canzoneri
7. Ross
8. Armstrong
9. Ortiz
10. Ambers
11. Arguello
12. Chavez
13. Welsh
14. Nelson
15. Jack

1. Leonard
2. Whitaker
3. Duran
4. Gans
5. Williams
6. Canzoneri
7. Ross
8. Ortiz
9. Armstrong
10. Jack
11. Ambers
12. Welsh
13. Arguello
14. McFarland
15. Nelson

No word from Ghosty, so I assume we are dealing exclusively with lightweights and not superfeathers. Reason I asked is that it has a profound bearing on my placing of Arguello.

The lightweights provide so many great fighters it becomes a question of ' whom do we leave out ? ' Too many, would appear to be the short answer, since I cannot find places for Blackburn, Nelson, Ramey, McAuliffe or De La Hoya, while Fleischer and co. will be turning in their graves that George Lavigne doesn't get a place.

I'll have to settle for these, unless somebody can persuade me otherwise :

1. Duran
2. Leonard
3. Gans
4. Whitaker
5. Armstrong
6. Williams
7. Canzoneri
8. Ortiz
9. Ross
10. Ambers
11.Chavez
12.Arguello
13.McFarland
14.Welsh
15.Mosley

Armstrong at 5, and above Ambers, might raise an eyebrow or two but I can't help but feel that he's worthy of the place, all things considered. His tenure at lightweight was brief, ( curtailed by a debatable decision loss to Ambers, ) but his glorious reign at welter was accomplished when he, for the most part, seldom weighed much above the lightweight limit, and the four above him are the only ones I would consider to be favourites to actually beat him at 135lb.

I might be persuaded to shuffle the pack a little, but these will do for now.

Windy, I suggested to Ghosty the other day that we give Light-Welterweight and Super-Featherweight their own separate billings in this exercise, as they are the only two examples of divisions outside of the eight classic ones which can hold a candle to them. Hence, this is purely for the 135 lb men. Like you alluded to, Arguello would have been a certainty for this list had the 130 lb men been included - instead, I can't find room for him, but it will be nice to see him on the Super-Featherweight list, which I'm one hundred percent confident he'll top.

Armstrong is a definite if we go on your theory, which is understandable. Personally (for sanity and simplicity as much as anything) I take those Welterweight title defences you've mentioned purely as Welterweight fights, which knocks him out of contention. Had I opted for the same take on it as you, he'd certainly have featured. But as I said, I wanted to keep it as simple as possible - it's one hell of a division!

1. Gans
2. Duran
3. Leonard
4. Williams
5. Canzoneri
6. Ortiz
7. Whitaker
8. Armstrong
9. Ross
10. Ambers
11. Welsh
12. Jack
13. McFarland
14. Blackburn
15. De la Hoya

Got it, Chris.

Thanks very much for the clarification.

Sorry Windy, yes this is just the lightweights, were we including super featherweight then the big problems for me would be the likes of Chavez, Arguello and Mayweather who would be bloody difficult to try and place were they combined. Have included Arguello myself but not overly happy with my placing of him but with Chavez despite only fighting twice at the weight they were against the best two around in Rosario and Ramirez who beat so comfortably he deserves a place.

Understood, Ghosty, and thanks for confirming. Arguello stays where he is, then.

No problem Windy, dreading the next few after this.

1. Roberto Duran
2. Benny Leonard
3. Joe Gans
4. Ike Williams
5. Carlos Ortiz
6. Pernell Whitaker
7. Barney Ross
8. Lou Ambers
9. Tony Canzoneri
10.Henry Armstrong
11. Julio Cesar Chavez
12. Freddie Welsh
13. Beau Jack
14. Shane Mosley
15. Packey Mcfarland

Whitaker
Leonard
Duran
Gans
Canzoneri
Williams
Ortiz
Ramey
Brown
Mosley
Ambers
Chavez
Jack
Wolgast
McFarland

1. Duran
2. Leornard
3. Whittaker
4. Gans
5. Williams
6. Canzoneri
7. Ortiz
8. Ross
9. Armstrong
10. Ambers
11. Welsh
12. Chavez
13. Jack
14. Brown
15. Mosley

1. Duran
2. Leonard
3. Gans
4. Williams
5. Whittaker
6. Ortiz
7. Canzoneri
8. Armstrong
9. Ross
10. Ambers
11. Arguello
12. Chavez
13. Welsh
14. Jack
15. Mosely

1 Duran
2 Leonard
3 Williams
4 Gans
5 Whittaker
6 Armstrong
7 Ortiz
8 Ross
9 Chavez
10 Mosley
11 Canzoneri
12 Welsh
13 Jack
14 Ambers
15 Mcfarland

1. Roberto Duran
2. Benny Leonard
3. Joe Gans
4. Ike Williams
5. Barney Ross
6. Pernell Whitaker
7. Tony Canzoneri
8. Freddie Welsh
9. Lou Ambers
10. Carlos Ortiz
11. Henry Armstrong
12. Julio Cesar Chavez
13. Alexis Arguello
14. Beau Jack
15. Jack Blackburn