PGA Tour: Deutsche Bank: Notes from the Ballwasher

First topic message reminder :

1).The weather clearly made a mess of The Barclays last week. Apart from turning classic Plainfield CC in to a dartboard, the Tour ruined any remaining integrity to the event by declaring that, if the 54 holes couldn't be completed by all, the truncated event would be further abbreviated to the 36 hole result. Good Lord! What ever would they have done if the leaders had finished but some slowcoaches at the back of the field got washed out?!!

2).Next thing you know they'll be selecting Captain's picks for the Presidents Cup before qualification is complete. They wouldn't do that now. Would they?

3).Let's not take anything away from Dustin Johnson however, now 4th in the World and the best of the Young Americans. Coincidentally, that's his second 54-hole win and at least one of his other three wins was weather-disrupted. Now he's got his second Play-Off tournament win and he has to be favourite for the FedEx Cup.

4).While everyone's eyes were on the Hurricane last week, a Viking was slinking off the PGA Tour, exit stage right. Mississippi's Viking Classic, site of Luke Donald's first win, has lost its sponsor and, unless a replacement is found, another long-standing event is history. Perhaps not many casual golf fans will miss this particular stop but, once again, it's a small event that has been a staple on the PGA Tour, most recently in the Fall Series. But some scheduling knucklehead decided to put it up this year against the Open Championship, in the middle of July when temps nudged 100F degrees. Brilliant.

5).The Players and PGA Tour met this week regarding notions that qualifying for the PGA Tour should be almost exclusively via the Nationwide Tour (or whatever it will be called when N'wide bow out). Q-School would offer access to the Nationwide only, and not to the PGA Tour. That'll help shut overseas veterans out of the Q-School route to the Tour - who is going to want to spend a year serving a minor-league apprenticeship on the offchance things go well and a Tour card materialises? The mooted idea includes a series of two or three mega-Nationwide events concluding their season with leading Nationwiders and PGA Tour moneylist finishers 126-200-ish competing from which the leading 50-odd would earn Tour cards for the following year. Some work on the drawing board still necessary I would think.

6).Meanwhile, one golfer who won't be concerned with all this, 15 years removed from his "Hello World" announcement, has delivered a "Hello Fall Series" pronouncement, Tiger Woods entering the Fry's.com tournament in California this October. Presumably any suggestion that the Presidents Cup pick is a quid pro quo for Fry's participation is purely cynical. Good deal for the Fry's though.

7).And so to TPC Boston, not exactly in Boston and almost not in Massachusetts, right by the Rhode Island border. But, wherever it is, it emerged relatively unscathed from last week's storms and, with the blessing of five days sun, should be in great condition for the 99 Deutsche Bankers, JB Holmes the only absentee. pgatour.com reckons the top 55 players are safely destined for the BMW but that leaves some notables vulnerable. Once the cut is made we'll offer estimates of what surviviors have to do on Sunday and Monday but these guys are among those on thin ice:
Allenby
Furyk
Kim
Poulter (17 out of 18 greens in regulation on Saturday, one miss cost him two strokes - great effort by Poulter)
Immelman
Harrington
Overton
McDowell
Ogilvy (I'm hoping good memories - four top tens - of TPC Boston will snap Ogilvy out of his season-long siesta. And in to the BMW at least, and Greg Norman's Pres Cup Team.)
Love
Els

Europeans were 11 for 11 in making the Barclays cut. More of that please.

8).The Champions Tour takes a hiatus from US competition but I enjoyed seeing Calcavecchia winning his first Senior title in Washington State last week. And on another note, those of us who follow sport would scarcely be human if we didn't have favourites and those we like a little less.
Chip Beck has been one of the latter category for me, deathly slow on the course, relentlessly upbeat and positive, nauseatingly so, and of course guilty of the chicken-spit lay up at Langer's second Masters win. Things spiralled downhill for Beck after that, he lost his game and struggled badly for many years, first in losing his PGA Tour card, and then plugging away on the Nationwide circuit, followed by poor play on the Champo Tour. But this year he's turning it round and Sunday's third place finish will get him very close to securing full exemption for 2012. Good for him!

9).The Nationwiders are in the Pittsburgh area this week, Gary Christian and Matt Richardson the only GB competitors. Decent field again with lots of PGA Tour vets hoping to emulate Kirk Triplett's success last week.

10).And it is often overlooked when a golfer officially announces retirement. Sherri Steinhauer did exactly that last week, in Canada. Steinhauer has been one of the most understated successful golfers on any circuit these past 25 years, with three British Women's Opens among her eight successes, plus another Major-at-the-time, the Du Maurier Classic in Canada. A four-time Solheim Cupper, she will be a Vice Captain on Rosie Jones Team in Ireland in a couple of weeks. Good luck to her!

PS: Thanks to all expressing their concern following last Sunday's weather. Thankfully no damage or serious flooding here, but some communities, especially in the mountains here and in nearby Northern New York were devastated.

BAAAAANG!!
Luuuuuuuuuke!!

Team GB&I still have seven runners in the FedEx Cup and they're all at even par or better in today's Deutsche Bank first round, well inside the top 70.
Luuuuuke leading the way but Harrington making a fine recovery from a dodgy start.
Karlsson and Fredie Jac not going so well and Sergio struggling early on.
We should have a decent idea of how vulnerable golfers are placed going in to Round 2.

pd, Snap!

Uncanny that the only two greens Poulter has missed in his last 28 holes have resulted in two par-3 double bogeys.

I'm sticking to the end of the Bulgaria/England match (though at 0-3 with 15 minutes to go it looks like job done) - then the TV will be switched to the golf coverage - not checked the leaderboard yet so it will all be a nice surprise!

Best thing about the England game is the Wales score - 2-0 up just after half-time!

No PGA golf on Sky until 10pm

Bloody minnow football should be relegated to the red button!

Afternoon kwini,

What's the cut line policy for these events? Pretty sure Luke and even Charl won't have to consider it this week. Interesting how 8 of the current top 10 are no worse than a 22 rank on the FedEx scale. Is Phil using the broomstick today?

Have resorted to following the day's action only via pgatour.com as the powers that be have added a couple of filters to our network system here at work for fear that video content might leak out. It's really that they don't trust themselves because those of us in the general work pool have no desire or impetus for such action.

The good news is our small company is moving to another building down the way and I'll be able to stream my required hours of sport viewing per day while hacking away at these corporate videos.

Davie wrote:No PGA golf on Sky until 10pm

Bloody minnow football should be relegated to the red button!

Davie, golf is on the red button. Been on since about 8. Cant believe big Phil is using the belly putter.

Nice one Sand - got it thanks!

I've been neglecting my duty, following the footie, following golf x 2 on pgatour.com and watching the tennis on a maddening slight tape delay.

Anyway Flavia (what an evocative name) Panetta just poured very sour milk down diva Sharapova's gullet.
Hope to watch Murray next! Tie-break!!

Off to The Valley tomorrow venice, I'll provide an eye-witness report! Could be grisly if this next rain comes through.

Oops, Yup, nice one Sand, Phil with a long putter. Not a great start for Phil though.

Phil looks awkward with the belly.....Putter.....................

7 x 1 putts despite his even par score fairly promising though, considering he was once deadly with the flatstick it's a shame to see him go toward he belly. Never been one to say long putters are cheating, but now were seeing so many it seems to taint the viewing a little. Bring back the days of the Boss of the Moss Loren Roberts classic stroke that never changed or showed signs of the yips... What happened to Roberts...

Nice to see Luuuuke hitting it well and hitting fairways, when that boy does that with his iron and wedge play he's lethal. Good to see a mixture of the shorter hitters like Donald, Yang and Kelly near the top early on..

Back to the belly putters for a minute, never tried one by from what I can see they seem to release through impact more that the standard type, I guess thats due to being anchored to the boy meanng more rotation in the stroke.

Kwini,
Just got in, thanks for your response. Tweet tweet doing very well. Garcia ok. Have I missed something. He seems a nice a guy but where do those religious replies come from on that other site come from? Anyway I hope the golf gods are with him and gets me some good luck doh.

Good luck Noel; coincidentally, Garcia launched the day's longest drive (348 yds) and Byrd stroked the longest successful putt (62 feet), so perhaps they'll give you credit for these peculiarities if all else fails.
You've struck oil with Byrd, would never've thunk it! And, yes, I think he is regarded as one of the Tour's good guys.

No overnight package for Immelman has trev has withdrawn due to a family bereavement. He joins Verplank and Holmes on the sidelines.

A little warmer and some uncalled-for wind today, just the chance of a shower later on. So they should be off on time (7.10 a.m.) And the forecast for Sunday and Monday remains good.

Nationwider Gary Christian shot another pair of eagles and he's now in 2nd place, making a strong bid for the Top 25. And Matt Richardson had one of Friday's better rounds to make the cut on the number - his realistic target is top 70 money, which exempts him for next year.

European players to watch for today as far as advancing to mid-September's BMW Championship are Harrington, Poulter and McDowell, all vulnerable to suffering from the Play-Off chop if they don't enjoy good weeks in Boston.
Job one is to make the cut which will likely be +1, exactly where Poulter currently is. 60-something will be the minimum requirement for Poults to have some breathing room, while McDowell needs to match par at least. Harrington will be looking to push on from a promising Round 1.

By this time tomorrow it should be pretty clear what each has to do to advance. No such concerns for Luke Donald, but he really needs a top five finish at least to be in with a chance of FedEx's $10M at the Tour Championship.

Luke is not really listening, Poults almost gave up, Padraig with his usual struggles... the only bright light for the Euros is Sergio with a brilliant 6-under afte 12. Hoping for some better news from them later on...

Harrington butchering Par 5's as usual.
he's +2 on them so far........................

He needs about 4 under on the weekend i reckon to make the BMW and if he does that even i think that's the end of the road..............

Lefty knocking them in from everywhere today! 7-under after 12 !?
Camilo also with a hot start...
But Podge is going nowhere right now in Boston... and at this rate he'll be going home (or to the KLM Open?) next week...
Poults is obviously out after missing the cut, and it'll be a tough task for GMac to make it through (just starting now)...

70 for Padraig not good................yet more Par 5 issues......+1 again today on them

About Padraig and the KLM Open... I see his name was taken off the entry list there, which makes perfect sense really... Even if he misses the cut for the BMW, with the Deutche Bank finishing on Monday evening, no way he could have played in the Netherlands on Thursday in any decent shape or form...

Great round by Karlsson, but Sergio and Brian Davis (and GMac) are going in the wrong direction. Good start from Luuuke...

Mickeson using a cheat stick ..... gutted.

Diggers wrote:Mickeson using a cheat stick ..... gutted.

This sort of comment makes me laugh.... Why is it a cheat stick, if it's such an advantage then why don't all pro's and am's alike use them to make their lifes easier....

You still have to hole the putts regardless lentgh of putter.

Its been well debated on here already, as to be fair have must things. Pointless going though it again (beginning to feel that about the whole board to be honest) but I know what I think of them and my opinion isn't going to change. Just a shame for me to see so many them.

Same with any forum though Diggers there will always be repetition of arguments of debates. Similar threads rejuvenated in some form.

Personally don't see it as cheating anymore than when larger headed drivers were brought in to play. The first to use them would be seen as cheats gaining unfair advantage of more forgiving clubs then everyone got on the band wagon. Too late to ban the belly(putter) now. I'm for anything that would prolong playing the game for anyone of any level and if its within the rules then nothing wrong with it. We'll see more and more of them as the year and coming years progress

With the level of detail in defining legal clubs (grooves on irons, driver dimensions etc. etc.) a belly putter is absolutely not cheating. If golf's governing bodies didn't want them they would have been banned by now. If you want to talk about cheating you should talk about the things that go against the spirit of golf, ex. Matt Kuchar's stunt on one of the other threads.

With that being said, we can all agree that belly putters look absolutely RIDICOLOUS and the players using them come out as absolute ****. It kind of corresponds to men performing synchronised swimming.

pedro wrote:With the level of detail in defining legal clubs (grooves on irons, driver dimensions etc. etc.) a belly putter is absolutely not cheating. If golf's governing bodies didn't want them they would have been banned by now. If you want to talk about cheating you should talk about the things that go against the spirit of golf, ex. Matt Kuchar's stunt on one of the other threads.

With that being said, we can all agree that belly putters look absolutely RIDICOLOUS and the players using them come out as absolute ****. It kind of corresponds to men performing synchronised swimming.

So, in that case we are all agreed that Seve was a cheat and a disgrace to the game ? Few players have ever pushed the limits of the rule book more than him.
I'll rather stick to my view on the cheat sticks thanks.

Can anyone remind me of the history of long putters please? I have a memory that at one point there was a ruling that they were going to be made illegal after a period of some years but that never seemed to happen. Did I imagine it or was the decision reversed?

It is not about how much better the long putter could make a player but rather the fact it alters one of the skill sets golf challenges in the original form of the game. I also realise you could say the same for other modern clubs but at least they are still gripped and used in the same way.

If someone is a bad driver, woods? should he be allowed to develop a driver outside the normal rules to help him drive better? Then expect the rules to be changed to let him use this device? The long putter is cheating the spirit and initial intention of the game if not the current rules and should be banned for this reason. It is not like it is widely used in club golf so the impact would be small on the average player.

I've yet to see any evidence that a longer putter holes more putts than a standard one. If it were the case everyone would use one. Generally you use a long putter because you are a poor putter or are struggling with your putting so a long putter won't make you better than anyone else, it might just help to make you less bad than you were prior to using one. I don't see the fuss about through whole thing. Just imagine if more popular players were using them and I'm sure people would think they are the best thing since sliced bread.
They are within the rules so I wish people would stop harking back to days of yore when no one had them. Drivers are easier to hit these days, do we go back to persimmon because 460cc heads are helping people? You can't live in the past.

super_realist wrote:I've yet to see any evidence that a longer putter holes more putts than a standard one. If it were the case everyone would use one. Generally you use a long putter because you are a poor putter or are struggling with your putting so a long putter won't make you better than anyone else, it might just help to make you less bad than you were prior to using one. I don't see the fuss about through whole thing. Just imagine if more popular players were using them and I'm sure people would think they are the best thing since sliced bread.
They are within the rules so I wish people would stop harking back to days of yore when no one had them. Drivers are easier to hit these days, do we go back to persimmon because 460cc heads are helping people? You can't live in the past.

My point exactly from earlier in thread SR. Many would have said those using metal drivers/larger headed clubs were cheats initially. I've tried out a broomhandle and trust me they are a lot harder to control than most people imagine, never tried a belly putter but if they are legal then wheres the case for arguing about cheating.

Wow, go away for two days and return to find another Englishman punching his card for the PGA Tour - 40-y-o Gary Christian who we write about for inclusivity rather than for competitive renown.
Congratulations to him for winning yesterday's Nationwider and climbing to fourth on the money list. That will be Christian and Russell Knox on Tour next year, Greg Owen fading away for now.

Nice enough morning in the Boston area, mild, a bit muggy and breezy.
Interesting yesterday to listen to Adam Scott saying how the course changed during the day, no really low scores late on and that wind, potentially gusting, could make life difficult today. Looks like the heavy rains will hold off though.

pgatour.com reckons the top 56 are nailed on to qualify for Chicago so here are their best guesses as to where some "notables" on the bubble need to finish today:
Allenby: 64th
Furyk: 60th
Harrington: 35th
McDowell: 32nd
Ogilvy: 26th
Love: 23rd
Els: 17th

I would be more conservative than that, but you get the picture.
Fact is, if these guys qualify just about on that number, they'll need a terrific finish to reach the Top 30 and the Tour Championship, so all need the best possible result this week.

A couple of Johnny Miller-isms from yesterday:
1).Apropos the long putter conversation, interesting that he claimed to be the first to win on the PGA Tour with a long job. I'd agree with that but he said it was in 1981, I would have thought it was at Pebble Beach in 1994 so not sure whether or not he's doing a Cheney with his revisionist history, but I suppose he was there!

2).Miller also pointed out Dustin Johnson's stats so far this week:
Driving distance: 2nd.
Driving accuracy: 1st.
Greens in reg: 2nd
Sand saves: T1st.
Position so far: 19th - which just goes to show what a three bogeys on par 5's, a double and a triple will do to your score.

Johnny saying he was first with the Long putter is interesting, as yesterday the "Zinger" was claiming to be the first to bring the belly putter to the tour circa 1991. Strange how these guys always claim to be the first. First person I ever remember with the long wand is Sam Torrance.

I think Johnny hopes no-one will remember - a bit like John McEnroe in that the older he gets the better he was. Legends perpetuated by sycophantic broadcasters.
First I remember was Harold The Horse Henning on the Senior Tour, but sure that Torrance had a long one at the '85 Ryder Cup. There must be an official record somewhere.

Did my earlier question get lost in the noise or does no one know the answer? I was sure that they were going to be banned at some point but it obviously never happened

https://www.606v2.com/t12793p50-pga-tour-deutsche-bank-notes-from-the-ballwasher#435628

Davie,
If I knew the answer I'd provide it!
For as long as I can remember there's been chatter about people objecting to long putters but, when they first came into vogue, they were seen as a crutch to the yip-infected more than an aid and were somewhat dismissed.

When they emerged as part of the arsenal for credible players there was much chat that they were cheating, but often from the exact same golfers as are using them now. I can't ever remember the authorities making a concerted effort to ban them, nor can I remember any effort to ban metal "woods", big-headed and extra-long drivers, or the souped-up golf ball.
Square grooves seems to be the only equipment modification there's been rules specifically against. Sure there are more but can't think of any especially significant to the modern game.

Red-hot scoring early in Round 4 but Martin Laird is not on the bandwagon.

This is a big day for Brian Davis, Laird and Justin Rose and all would benefit from a fine final round to better position themselves for qualification for the Tour Championship jackpot.
Apart from the minimum $100K+ minimum prizemoney, exemptions into most Majors and some WGC's comes with Tour Championship qualification, something that none of the three can take for granted right now.

Thanks Kwini - guess I must've imagined it!

I ws convinced that when they first started to be used (Sam Torrance was one of the first I remember) I could have sworn I heard that they were going to be outlawed 2 or 3 years from then, but that they were giving the couple of years leeway to allow players to adjust rather than just imposing an immediate ban. I've searched myself though and can find no reference to it whatsoever so I can only assume I dreamt it!

Harrington +4 on the Par 5's so far this week, continuing his horrible play on the 5's for the last couple of years..................course management issues again you'd have to think....................

John,
I wonder why this is; I've noticed the same characteristic with Westwood - is it just failings in their short game, poor course management, poor advice from the caddie?
Whatever it is, it's cost them $100K's this year.

Davie,
Wish I knew a definitive answer . . . . . . . !

There has always been discussions between the tour commissions regards to the legality of broomhandle/belly putters, but because there is no way of actually proving if it really is an advantage it has been swept by the way side.

After all the longer putters have been around now for roughly 2 decades a Keegan Braddley is the first major winner using one this year. Plus compared to the amount of winners on tour that use them. Mind you saying that we've probably had a record number of winners this year with long putters, Braddely x2, Scott, Simpson and a few others

Maverick wrote:There has always been discussions between the tour commissions regards to the legality of broomhandle/belly putters, but because there is no way of actually proving if it really is an advantage it has been swept by the way side.

After all the longer putters have been around now for roughly 2 decades a Keegan Braddley is the first major winner using one this year. Plus compared to the amount of winners on tour that use them. Mind you saying that we've probably had a record number of winners this year with long putters, Braddely x2, Scott, Simpson and a few others

Maverick, would imagine in the past its been a bit of a numbers game. As a percentage probably not that many guys on tour used them and it tended to be people going to them for a quick fix.
We new seem to have a generation coming through who have used them for many years (Laird for example) and the success rate seems to be increasing.
Be interesting to know what percentage of guys did use them on tour in relation to the amount of tournaments won, might go some way to proving that they do provide an advantage or not. Clearly not easy to find out though, if not impossible.

Kwini,

I checked Harri's Par 5 scoring average and he was t124 before this week(so will drop further). I genuinely believe it's nothing other than poor shot selection. He often has talked about seeing a shot and committing to it and not being bothered by the outcome. Maybe he needs to start thinking of the outcomes!!

Diggers wrote:

Maverick wrote:There has always been discussions between the tour commissions regards to the legality of broomhandle/belly putters, but because there is no way of actually proving if it really is an advantage it has been swept by the way side.

After all the longer putters have been around now for roughly 2 decades a Keegan Braddley is the first major winner using one this year. Plus compared to the amount of winners on tour that use them. Mind you saying that we've probably had a record number of winners this year with long putters, Braddely x2, Scott, Simpson and a few others

Maverick, would imagine in the past its been a bit of a numbers game. As a percentage probably not that many guys on tour used them and it tended to be people going to them for a quick fix.
We new seem to have a generation coming through who have used them for many years (Laird for example) and the success rate seems to be increasing.
Be interesting to know what percentage of guys did use them on tour in relation to the amount of tournaments won, might go some way to proving that they do provide an advantage or not. Clearly not easy to find out though, if not impossible.

I think thats a fair point in the sense that guys used to turn to them in desperation much like Scott has. Yet the likes of keegan Braddley, Brendan Steele, Martin Laird, Webb Simpson et al have come out onto the tour with years of practise with the long wand. There is also like I said earlier a higher percentage of winners with them over this year than seems in past seasons. I think if someone wanted to sit down and work out if the use of them is an unfair advantage would be near on impossible. Because you could not simply work it on the winners, because you'd have to work out how many greens they hit and from what distance their initial putts were. How many putts per green and strokes saved, then work out how many of those winners compared to number of regular flatsticks would be a long drawn out process

John,
Agreed!

Back to Europe for Harrington then....nothing less than he deserves.....I think his problem on PAR 5'S is going for too much distance and ending up missing the fairway.

Hoping Day or Fowler can win if not DJ!

A few goners already, Harrington as you say, Perez, Overton, Barnes, Imada, Matteson; Crane, Garrigus and Love looking increasingly dodgy.,

McDowell on the bubble........................

Crane, Garrigus and Love have gone down the drain now.

We could have the prospect of Els and McDowell vying for the same spot! Bad bogey on #4 for McDo, he needs to get motoring. If he doesn't make it, he'll be one tournament short of the Tour minimum, joining Oosthuizen in giving the Tour decisions that they'll have to enforce if they don't add Fall Series events.