Scotland will beat England

After today they have a very good chance. Even the perfect Wilkinson had a nightmare day at the boot which was almost as horrific as when Bergamasco played 9.

Scotland were by all accounts pretty terrible today as well remember.

The way England played today Scotland may well beet them.

wondered how long it would take for one of these to pop up

Not sure if Scotland could beat England, as they barely held off Romania. But, after watching England this mornig, I have to say my club with our team of overweight fatties could give them a run for their money. If the ball was any slower coming out of the ruck and then played, my grandmother could have gotten in a few good plays. Absolutely cringe-worthy.

And yet, strangely, my high expectations for England aren't diminished. I guess I am nuts.

Maybe you're right. In 2007 England went from losing 36-0 to nearly winning the tournament.

After one game, with 3 more to play? Premature to say the least..

I don't understand how Argentina went from becoming a "tough start" to an easy 20 pointer for England within a couple weeks. It was always going to be tough.

Despite scoring 4 good tries, our scrum was simply not good enough. It was our undoing in the last 6N, and I think it will be our undoing in the world cup too. I think everyone else in our group will target it now when playing us.

EnglishReign wrote:I don't understand how Argentina went from becoming a "tough start" to an easy 20 pointer for England within a couple weeks. It was always going to be tough.

Agree completely. Must have come from pre-RWC madness. I also think the Scotland match will be close.

rugbywhales wrote:After today they have a very good chance. Even the perfect Wilkinson had a nightmare day at the boot which was almost as horrific as when Bergamasco played 9.

not a change unless you sort your scrum out.

England will bounce back - it will be difficult to be that bad again. Scotland are more than capable of beating England and Argentina, but I still doubt they will. I predict England and Scotland will qualify.

Scotland wont win but it could well be another messy game to watch

offload wrote:England will bounce back - it will be difficult to be that bad again.

That's sounds like a challenge we can easily meet

When England lost 36-0 they still played better than they did today.
On that day in 2007 England played a classy South African side if this side today had took them on they would have lost by far more.

It was great to see Scotland scoring tries but they still have work to do in the pack if they have genuine desire to put one over on the Auld Enemy.

What a load of rubbish!! World cup rugby is all about gringing out wins, not playing pretty rugby. If you ask any Welshman would they take a one point win tomorow playing terrible rugby they would say yes! If you asked any Welshman wether they would take a one point scrappy win against Fiji and Samoa playing terrible rugby they would say yes! Just a as a Scotsmas would take a terrible one pointer against Argetntina, or Ireland would take a terrible one pointer against Ireland etc etc. The most importan thing is the win, nothing else matters. England will play better than that and will win their group, that will give a probable quarter final against France. Again England would take a terrible one poitn win against them as they would the Aussies in the semi final.... All you English bashers can rip as much as you like, however England won and look likely to top their group and know what it takes to win games in world cups.

And Argentina are no mugs - poor performance in Wales or no. I hope the injuries they suffered are not serious enough to affect how the Pumas do in the rest of the tournament

wrfc1980 wrote:What a load of rubbish!! World cup rugby is all about gringing out wins, not playing pretty rugby. If you ask any Welshman would they take a one point win tomorow playing terrible rugby they would say yes! If you asked any Welshman wether they would take a one point scrappy win against Fiji and Samoa playing terrible rugby they would say yes! Just a as a Scotsmas would take a terrible one pointer against Argetntina, or Ireland would take a terrible one pointer against Ireland etc etc. The most importan thing is the win, nothing else matters. England will play better than that and will win their group, that will give a probable quarter final against France. Again England would take a terrible one poitn win against them as they would the Aussies in the semi final.... All you English bashers can rip as much as you like, however England won and look likely to top their group and know what it takes to win games in world cups.

Jeez, take a chill pill. No-one is "England bashing" in this thread they are saying two things:

The first is opinon: They think Scotland might beat England.

The second is fact: England were bloody awful today.

You do realise thats why this part of 606v2 exists? To discuss rugby facts and opinions.

I thought Argentina were very poor today clueless kicking they will need to play far better if they have any ambition of going further in the competition.

I think Scotland actually now have less chance of beating England. A sub-standard performance by England today means they will be focussed on improving and almost every player knows they need to step up. The players coming off the bench (Youngs especially) were probably the standouts.

The Scots struggled against Romania. Hardly enough to fill anyone with any confidence.

I'm sure England will get better and top the group and think Argentina will beat the Scots in a close game.

SafeAsMilk
But you don't think that Scotland will be focused on improving ?

Cymroglan wrote:SafeAsMilk
But you don't think that Scotland will be focused on improving ?

Yes, but they've got a much further distance to improve. Scotland playing poorly would not have beaten Argentina.

The thing is with England is that even when they are playing badly they can still be very hard to beat. You dont get that same sense of awkwardness - 'belligerence' from many teams.

Of course Scotland have every chance of beating England. I doubt they will though.

Some people dont seem to understand just how difficult it is to beat Argentina. Ok England played poorly and Argentina wernt much better but England won. If i was a Scottish fan, i would be more worried about beating Argentina than beating England.

Meoooooow

Oh, don't do that now, mind.

In truth Argentina, England and Scotland all played at a nice solid level of mediocrity today. Can't go downhill so onwards and upwards from here.

There can, and should be a lot of debate abut what each team needs to do to start really firing. Frankly, the Scotland match was too early in the morning for me to remember specifics, except for getting nervous part way through the second half. That would mean defense, defense, defense.

For England, quick ball (or at least not painfully slow ball), a semblence of some real running lines, and much better tackling.

Here, here, doctor_grey - sounds like both Scotland and England had troubles at the breakdown, so I'm pretty sure we can expect to see improvements from both teams in that area. Scotland will need to steady ther scrum and work hard on maul defence, but it was great to see our backs looking threatening with ball in hand - our support play will need to be top notch to ensure that line breaks can be built upon with players not getting isolated. 3 massive challenges, at least, remain ahead for Scotland

Hey As,
I think Romania was the perfect first match for Scotland: A physical team which is well coached, but whom Scotland should defeat. After some nervouis moments, the better team put their opponent away - as they should. Was certainly the right match to engage the backs and get things moving. I also think Scotland will get more out of their match than England did. Scotland has a few specific areas of focus. England were poor across the board, most especially including decision making.

Scotland having Georgia up next is also a good thing. Should be primed and ready for Argentina and England.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, 'and Scotland will beat England'

Well that may well be true if the World cup was about the production of hot air and BS, Scotland and Wales would be fighting it out in every final, but its about World cup Rugby, and in this format England do well, and the 'Celtic fringe ' country's simply don't .

Its almost like a mathmatical equation, so get your collective mindset on an Early flight home, or do i have to remind you of a different sport long, long ago, where 'Ali's Tartan army' were going to show the World? and we all know how that ended. Bye for now!!

rugbywhales wrote:After today they have a very good chance. Even the perfect Wilkinson had a nightmare day at the boot which was almost as horrific as when Bergamasco played 9.

Whales should not be allowed anywhere near rugby

English warrior, have you seen a single Scottish poster support the claims of the OP? No? Ah well, away with your pathetic bile, pls don't waste space with your brand of meaningless nonsense, there are other more respected English fans that I'd like to hear from

rugbywhales wrote:After today they have a very good chance. Even the perfect Wilkinson had a nightmare day at the boot which was almost as horrific as when Bergamasco played 9.

I guess you missed Scotland's game today then. They conceded 20-odd points to ROMANIA! England will murder them just like SA will murder Wales tomorrow.

Duty - just out of interest, did you watch the Scotland v Romania game?

Yep I did. Scotland were awful even going behind at one stage.

So they were not the only side that went behind played awful yet still managed to win.

Hmm, okay, I actually gave that more as a credit to Romania, especially in the scrums. I think in that aspect of the game they have enough to worry anyone, even England, who were well matched by Argentina for the most part today.

Scotland made the mistake of allowing Romania too much ball. If England do that, I've no doubt Romania will score a fair few points against them too.

There's a massive difference between a narrow win over Argentina and a narrow win over Romania.

Indeed there is. France played worse than England as well - conceding that many to JAPAN! Possibly the ALL Blacks in the second half were worse than England as well. It'll be the same tomorrow as well because Australia will struggle to put away Italy and Sa will struggle to put away Wales althought they will both manage it in the end.

Duty You could well be right but in the case of Wales, South Africa will have to put us away sooner than later leaving it till the end may cost them.

Both sides came up against very determined sides, both struggled but eventually came through. The only difference is that England played a side who were not only determined, they had class too, whereas scotland were playing a side with comparitively little top class experience and no real classy players. Overall both sides had dissapointing performances but still ground out a win, t hat's all you need for round 1. Also suggesting England were worse than the 36-0 side is a comment 'bordering on ignorance' and an insult to Argentina.

I disagree rugbyman - Tincu, Romania's captain and who plays for Perpignan - now he is a classy player. Thought he was superb. They didn't have many other's to support him though I'll agree there.

rugbyman
No ignorance or insult intended, I believe that that side that lost 36-0 were better than the performance we seen today.

I think awful is unfair on the scots, the first quarter and last 10 they played some excellent rugby. In between their pack got exposed badly at the scrum. England, Argentina and Georgia are going to try and scrummage the scots off the park.

honestly I think the scots are in for a rough ride against Argentina, against england maybe passion for beating the old enemy will take them through.

England were poor today but they are going to get better.

England Argentina and Scotland by far the easiest group, Wales would walk that group,
BUT! Wales have a nasty nasty group with the World champs and south sea islanders.

Duty281 wrote:Indeed there is. France played worse than England as well - conceding that many to JAPAN! ..............

I have to disagree with that. France's performance was patchy, as was Scotland's but both sides showed more attacking nous in the first 5 minutes of their games than England did in the entire match.

Argentina are NOT the side of 2007 AND they were shorn of key players through injury.

I don't understand the English Fan's (or management's) reaction after the first match............ England were abject today. That is NOT to say they are a bad team, I dont believe that for a moment, but they were truly appalling against Argentina. BBC journalist Ben Dirs touched on this "a win is a win" attitude today in his blog (n.b. Ben is an England fan)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bendirs/2011/09/dysfunctional_england_in_need.html

The opening paragraphs ring particularly true to me. I grew up watching Rugby as an amateur sport, when players like Bennet, Edwards, Duckham, Gibson, Irvine thrilled the crowds with off the cuff brilliance. This "win at all costs" attitude (often wrongly blamed on professionalism) is lessening a great sport and turning it - and its supporters - into the unedifying and tedious profit led world of Wendyball.

If the side I support (Wales) get thrashed tomorrow but play some attractive rugby, I would be happier than if they produced the gormless, passionless type of display England put up and squeeked a narrow victory.

Rugbydreamer, thought he was good on the day too, but isn't he 3rd choice at Perpignan? Pretty sure he doesn't start anyway.



And cymroglan, i think we should just agree to disagree on that one

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:English warrior, have you seen a single Scottish poster support the claims of the OP? No? Ah well, away with your pathetic bile, pls don't waste space with your brand of meaningless nonsense, there are other more respected English fans that I'd like to hear from

+1

Fully agree. No Scottish poster is taking any match for granted. Especially England. Perhaps best not to tar some of the most realistic and pessimistic fans with that sort of brush!

viewtothegym wrote:England Argentina and Scotland by far the easiest group, Wales would walk that group,
BUT! Wales have a nasty nasty group with the World champs and south sea islanders.

Of course they would