Scotland vs France: How do you beat Les Bleus?

So the Scotland lineup has been announced. Not everyone likes it, especially the centre partnership, but any bickering about that can be left out of this thread please. This thread is about tactics! No "Robbo must go" comments either please.

My main question is, what will Scotland have to do to beat Les Bleus? What areas of the game do Scotland have to get right against France? Who are the danger men? Who is likely to make a big impact for both sides?

It would also be great to hear the opinions of other teams fans. If there are any French fans on 606v2 please don't be shy, tell us how you feel about France atm and how you think they might perform this weekend.

Additional Info

Game Location: Murrayfield, 3pm kick off, Sunday the 26th.

Ref: Wayne Barnes

Assistant referees: Alain Rolland and Simon McDowell

Weather Report: http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2650225

Bookies Odds: http://www.oddschecker.com/rugby-union/internationals/six-nations/scotland-v-france/winner

French Team Selection: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17117862

2011 France vs Scotland Highlights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pDeFDuSiK0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSpiYWB-5Sk&feature=related

Bore them into submission at Murrayfield?

Just messing

It's going to be hard, very hard to beat the French with the Team Robinson has picked.

Strating off with the Forwards.

This is the first time Robinson has picked a pack that will struggle in the backrow. On another thread I made the comment that the French Backrow of Dusatoir, Hairy and Picomoles will be far too much for our comparetiviley light weight backrow to deal with. Denton is a good tackler and whilst I'm sure Barclay and Rennie will do a job, they are going to struggle to stop the big French pack from breaching the gainline thus negating any advantage we might have from picking 2 specialist opensides.

AR's decisions in the past at 6 (for instance picking Hines there) makes more sense than picking Barcaly who is a light weight 7 on the blindside against probably one of the best backrows in world rugby. Denton will have to pick up the slack in terms of carrying and tackling and pray that Ford, Cross, Gray, Hamilton all have good games to take some of the tackling and carrying burden.

The Backs

Oh dear. This is one of the most uncoordinated backlines I can remember. In the good old days when we had a backline of : Blair, Parks, Morrison, Dewey, S.Lamont, Danielli/Walker, R.Lamont you at least knew what you would bring to the table.

This backline on the other hand is a convoluted shambles. We have a halfback pairing renowned for their distribution skills and quick ball and outside them we have Morrison and Lamont, who can't pass and won't pass respectively. Then on the Outside wing we have Rory Lamont who is not exactly light on his feet. He'll see even less of the ball than our inside Wing Jones and the elusive and very promising Hogg at 15.

In simple terms the halfbacks will provide quick ball to crash ball merchants..... I'm not sure I get what AR is trying to do with this. It gets worse when you look at Morrison and Lamont's opposite numbers. The Clermont Auvergne partnership of Wesley Fofana and Aurelien Rougerie who are used to big lumering centres pummeling them for 80 minutes. Couple that with Picolomes, Hairy and Dusatoir who are all renowned choppers and I can see this being another case of Scotland huffing and puffing to no avail.

This France team would IMO struggle to play at a tempo and pace that the Edinburgh team produced (see the game against RM92), sure Edinburgh leaked tries but they tore the Metro apart.

Wales will show how to beat France in this years 6N. Scotland have the players to beat this French side but once again our Coach has brought a knife to a nuke fight.

If by some miracle our backrow can contain the French we'll lose by 10-15 points, if we can't we'll be blown away like NZ did to us in the Autumn Internationals of 2010.

Hope I have kept the Robinson bashing to a minimum

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Hope I have kept the Robinson bashing to a minimum

Haha, yes, I think you composed yourself very well

I think the Scrum is going to have to be performing well this weekend, we have been bullied there in the past. Hopefully Jim Hamilton will provide some good anchorage.

In all seriousness. If Scotlamd play France in the same fashion and approach to the game as they did against Wales then an upset is very much on the cards.

Good positive rugby but keeping it tight (ala 1st half via Wales) will frustrate the French into making mistakes.

yeah i agree eirebilly, we played well in Cardiff and frustrated the Welsh for large portions of the game. If we played like that again I would be very happy.

Just keep that discipline bsando.... Thats essential. Scotland really looked good for going into half time 3-10 up but with some silly play in the first 6 minutes of the second half almost put them out of the game.

What i did notice last week was that after Scotland got the first yellow card and were a try behind, they showed great character and determination to hang in there and not let their heads drop. That to me was the most impressive aspect of Scotlands play last week.

bsando wrote:yeah i agree eirebilly, we played well in Cardiff and frustrated the Welsh for large portions of the game. If we played like that again I would be very happy.

I wouldn't be happy. I wouldn't be happy at all.

Have we learned nothing from our mistakes of the past? You don't beat teams by containing them for the 1st half. You win by scoring more points over 2 halves, preferably scoring tries too.

In the 6N & RWC since AR has taken over we have won 3 out of 16 games, all this by being too conservative.

The Players Scotland have to beat the French will be watching from the stands.

The Scrum is an area we'll have to dominate to get any kind of momentum. Cross dealt well with Jenkins in Cardiff so I expect him to deal well with Baptiste, it's how Chunk will handle Mas that has me concerned.

I reckon we'll be ok in the Lineout though.

eirebilly wrote:In all seriousness. If Scotland play France in the same fashion and approach to the game as they did against Wales then an upset is very much on the cards.

If only Robinson had picked a team to do this.

The way to beat France is to score more than them . They will score tries so we need to score more. Quick ball from the pack, quick hands in the midfeild, offloads and quick recyles and keep at them at pace. LIke Edinburgh against RC metro. Keep 'em guessing, short inside ball - conventional pass tot eh inside centre, chip over teh top.miss pass, bring in opposite side winger. Be unpredictable

I guess that what i am trying to get at TJ, is that Scotland were very positive in the first half against Wales and the 3-3 half time score line didnt tell the story of what was a very open and enguaging first half.

Play like that against France at home and the try's will come i feel. Scotlands defence was not that bad and most of Wales' points came when they were a man down.

bsando, I would try to answer your question, but I am confused as to tactics - it is unclear what we are trying to achieve both via Robsinon's selections (but, as requested, I will steer clear of that topic) and by his public statements - there are aspects to phase play that I like, but having a clinical cutting edge in terms of try-scorers all over the pitch is essential in terms of taking the opportunities that phase play inevitably brings - we need players that will recognise the opportunities to cross the whitewash and we need those same players to execute. However, the good news is that our halfbacks are quite capable of ignoring any set tactics that are laid down to them and simply playing what is in front of them - let us hope that that unpredictability will serve us well

One thing is for sure, we are NOT going to run this French team off the park, and any suggestions to that affect should be treated with laughter

AsBo, in no way are Scotland going to run France off the park.

They do have a team that could potentially cause France alot of problems though and there is some speed in that back line.

eirebilly wrote:AsBo, in no way are Scotland going to run France off the park.

They do have a team that could potentially cause France alot of problems though and there is some speed in that back line.

Jones and Hogg are quick but not any quicker than Clerc or Medard. The rest of our backline is pretty lethargic, Blair can have the odd quick dart but laidlaw is a slow 10, likewise Morrison, and the Lamont brothers are more rumbling backs rather than qucik ones.

The French backline is considerably quicker across the pitch unfortunatly.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I wouldn't be happy. I wouldn't be happy at all.

Have we learned nothing from our mistakes of the past? You don't beat teams by containing them for the 1st half. You win by scoring more points over 2 halves, preferably scoring tries too.

I agree Radge, you can't contain a team to win a game, but I think we put Wales under a lot of pressure, we should have finished the 1st half with a try. We had lots of opportunities and we created good chances but once again we were our own worst enemy at times. i think sunday will be about creating those same chances and actually converting them to get into a winning position.

I just think that Scotland have more pace there now than in recent history. I could be wrong though but i do believe this. Regardless how quick the French are, they are not that much quicker. Italy's backline is not quicker than Scotlands and for the most part did well at closing the French attack down.

the thing that was qiute impressive about Italy was that they actually played the ball through a lot of phases and had some decent breaks but the French just soaked it up and hit them on the break.

the myth that the French teams arent fit is simply that, a myth.

When combined with the fact that les bleus scrum is going to give us a really tough examination, and we have a weak tail to our lineout presence and i think we will be be on the back foot for most of the game.

With the back row including two 7's i think we will find the French to be a real handful. once they get quick ball their 9, 10 and 12 will really test our defensive susytems. for a while having good back row mobility may stem the tide, but eventually we will run out of defenders.

Unless lievremont is flown in to give the pre match team talk i cannot see this french outfit losing to us.

From the Scotsman
The French coach Philippe Saint-Andre pinpointed that on Tuesday, highlighting how his players were not used to games where the ball was in play for 46 minutes, as when Scotland played Wales. He cited Stade Francais’ match with Toulon in the Top 14 as showing a ball-in-play time of just 26 minutes.

Close the airports, block the Tunnel and sink any ferry crossing the Channel

Right to the question

How do we beat the French team - well it is possible

Firstly good execution of the basics and no silly mistakes - does not matter the team picked, we need to get that right to have any chance - and we have failed at this so often

I think ther real way to beat this French team is to use the pack to keep the ball moving around the park, with pods of forward setting up rucks across the pitch - as long as we do not just ship it to one yard to hte left, this could be a great way to distrute and unsettle the French team. Keeping the ball, slowing it down when required (but ensuring enough men to keep it), then explosive pods, will keep it going.

then when we have moved the back around, and distupted the French defensive line, we use the big men. Firstly to run into contact, and re-cycle, but as the game goes on as dummy runners, with Hogg, Jones and Lamont coming in on angles and changinf the direction.

S Lamont, is good at the pop pass, so when he goes in, Hogg or R Lamont to be on his shoulder. Morrison to run hard into space between the tackle and set up quick ball

Added in clever tactical kicking behind the French team (Who will be up fast to stop the big men getting up speed), will keep them guessing, kicks deep to touch for line outs (Which I think we will have an edge)

If all this works out and we have a 'good quality hand day', then I am optomistic we can win - yes I said it, I am truely a deluded Scots fan

This is my best effort:

1. Don't give the French scrum too much respect. Mas has not been in great form for France of late, and there's no Domingo and Barcella, plus the glue that is Servat is on the bench. Szwarevski (made up spelling) is a good player in the loose, but not the same calibre of player as Servat in the tight play basics. We have some meat in the second row and a pretty powerful front row - we should make it as unpleasant for them as possible, and play the ref well. Wheel it, unsettle it, bring it down, just make as much of a mess of French ball as possible.

2. Put Szwarevski under severe pressure at the lineout. None of this non-jumping stuff. Hamilton and Gray should present big obstacles to the French jumpers (as Gray did to the Welsh). Again, make their ball as scrappy as possible. Parra's service can suffer badly with scrappy ball.

3. Obviously with two specialist opensides in the team we have to make every breakdown a nightmare for the French. Our powerful centres need to win the midfield collisions and allow Rennie and Barclay to get over the ball. Both will need to win over Wayne Barnes, and make it abundantly clear when they have their hands near the ball and the player isn't releasing. Similarly if the French are doing the same to us, we need to be nasty at the breakdown, especially if Barnes is doing a Poite.

4. In attack we need to up the tempo as much as possible. We have a more mobile pack and enough muscle in the backs (Morrison is basically an auxillary flanker) to win some rucks without the forwards. Blair needs to play his tap and go game and Laidlaw needs to be on the money with his sharp inside passes and chips over the top. Once we're kin behind we need to go wide quickly, and allow Jones and Hogg the chance to beat the French one on one. We may lose the odd ball, and suffer the odd turnover, but neither Rougerie nor Malzieu are sharp on the turn and we really should be trying to exploit that.

bsando wrote:How do you beat Les Bleus

You score more points than them. You have a massive advantage as it's in Murrayfield. If the French are going to be put off by just having to turn up somewhere it will be a dreich (spelling?) Edinburgh.

How Scotland (this selection) can beat France:

1. (as mentioned above) Make the scrum into a mess, their scrums been rubbish in comparison to previous years.

2. (as mentioned above) Get Gray and his giant limbs up in the lineout to turn that area into a mess.

3. DO NOT KICK WAY POSESSION. Send Morrison/S Lamont down the 9/10 channel, do this repeatedly in the early stages of the game, their backrow will shift their defensive focus to that area, then you start using them as dummy runners and popping short flat passes inside to Hogg/R Lamont. The French defence is very good all over the park, goign wide wont help as they simply have more class out there. They do however, tend to over compensate for Parra/Trinh-Duc with their backrow, Dusatoir especially.

4. Take every opportunity you can when points come within reach. Scotland have not been clinical the last 2 games, if they keep on in this vein, they will continue to lose.

So:

Spoil, spoil, spoil then. Almost worked in Cardiff.

3 above from Comfort is very important. We must not allow Clerc and Medard to get a counter-attacking game going. We'll be cut to ribbons.

As bad as it sounds I don't want us to beat the French, purely because it'll encourage the conservative selection of Robinson (sorry Robinson bashing I know).

The only way I could see us winning this game is grinding out another penalty win, which isn't what we need right now. I would rather Scotland played like they did against France last year, lost but scored tries in the process, than play like they usually do against England, and slowly grind out a draw or victory. It's not progressive, and it does not always work. The whole point of a game plan is to get more wins than losses, and this conservatism doesn't work anymore for Scotland. Teams are now too disciplined, have very strong defences, and high levels of fitness, not to mention they can actually score tries.

also, for what its worth (and i know the selction debate is still raging) having players like Scott/Visser/Hogg coming into the team at 12/14/15 respectively and with Laidlaw/Jackson both growing into the 10 role at this level, the futures looking good for scotland. Already this tournament they've shown more ambition in their play and only a lack of that clinical edge has seen near-certain tries go begging.

Scotland dont lack the firepower to create and score tries, its just playing with the confidence that comes from a couple of wins (however they come) and settling combinations (as Wales have done over the last calender year) that will see those tries start coming along nicely.

How do you beat France:

- Make no handling errors. France simply live off turnover ball and they have one of best scrums in world rugby. To me this is the key. Even if you play horribly boring rugby simply don't turn over with handling errors.

- Slow down all rucks.

- Attack the fringes of rucks as your main point of attack. Vary it when they begin to commit men and expose their outside,

- Attack their lineout aggressively.

- Make first time tackles. If they can offload it so be it thats another mans problem. But against France you simply need to chop them down.

Riskysports wrote: Morrison to run hard into space between the tackle and set up quick ball

Morrison doesnt run into space though, he seems to think the idea is to run into your opposite man and take an age to recycle the ball. He even does it when hes not got the ball, im surprised he hasnt been carded for his blatant blocks over the past few years.

Normally I'm a wee bit optimistic about our chances but this is the first time for a long time that I think not only are we outclassed to a man (with the Exception of Gray and Ford), but we also don't have the right tactics to win either.

I can see nothing other than a French win.

Dress in black and hope Wayne Barnes isnt the ref?

It really would be a bit barmy for Scotland to turn this around and win. France looked a lot better and happier than their world cup side ( despite largely being the same players) against Italy.