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Scotland Summer Tour, Game 2: Canada v Scotland, 14 June

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Scotland Summer Tour, Game 2: Canada v Scotland, 14 June Empty Scotland Summer Tour, Game 2: Canada v Scotland, 14 June

Post by George Carlin Mon 09 Jun 2014, 8:48 am

CanadaScotland Summer Tour, Game 2: Canada v Scotland, 14 June Flower10 v Scotland  Scotland Summer Tour, Game 2: Canada v Scotland, 14 June Dunce10
14 June 2014, KO: 14:00 EDT (19:00 BST)
BMO Field, Toronto, Ontario

Live on BT Sport 2

Referee: Mike Fraser (NZ)
Assistant referees: Stuart Berry (SA), Nick Ricono (USA)
TMO: Davey Ardrey (USA)

A. Teams:

I. Canada
Scotland Summer Tour, Game 2: Canada v Scotland, 14 June Mounti10
1.Hubert Buydens – (Manawatu Turbos/Prairie Wolf Pack) Saskatoon, SK
2.Aaron Carpenter – (Cornish Pirates RFC) Brantford, ON
3.Jason Marshall – (Atlantique Stade Rochelais) Vancouver, BC
4.Tyler Hotson – (London Scottish RFC) Vancouver, BC
5.Jamie Cudmore – (ASM Clermont Auvergne) Squamish, BC
6.Jebb Sinclair – (London Irish/Atlantic Rock) Fredericton, NB
7.John Moonlight – (James Bay AA/Ontario Blues) Pickering, ON
8.Tyler Ardron – Captain (Ospreys/Ontario Blues) Lakefield, ON

9.Phil Mack – (James Bay AA/BC Bears) Victoria, BC
10.Harry Jones – (Capilanos RFC/BC Bears) Vancouver, BC
11.Taylor Paris – (SU Agen Lot-et-Garonne) Barrie, ON
12.Nick Blevins – (Calgary Hornets/Prairie Wolf Pack) Calgary, AB
13.Ciaran Hearn – (Castaway Wanderers/Atlantic Rock) Conception Bay South, NL
14.Jeff Hassler – (Ospreys/Prairie Wolf Pack) Okotoks, AB
15.James Pritchard – (Bedford Blues) Parkes, NSW, Australia

16.Ray Barkwill – (Niagara Wasps RFC/Ontario Blues) Niagara Falls, ON
17.Andrew Tiedemann – (Castaway Wanderers/Prairie Wolf Pack) St. Albert, AB
18.Jake Ilnicki – (Castaway Wanderers/BC Bears) Williams Lake, BC
19.Kyle Gilmour – (Saint Albert RFC/Prairie Wolf Pack) Saint Albert, AB?
20.Jon Phelan – (Castaway Wanderers/Atlantic Rock) Montreal, QC
21.Gordon McRorie – (Calgary Hornets/Prairie Wolf Pack) Calgary, AB
22.Connor Braid – (James Bay AA/BC Bears) Victoria, BC
23.DTH van der Merwe – (Glasgow Warriors) Regina, SK

II. Scotland
Scotland Summer Tour, Game 2: Canada v Scotland, 14 June Superc10
15 Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors); 21 caps, 5 tries, 25 points
14 Sean Maitland (Glasgow Warriors); 10 caps, 1 try, 5 points
13 Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors); 87 caps, 12 tries, 60 points
12 Peter Horne (Glasgow Warriors); 2 caps
11 Tim Visser (Edinburgh Rugby); 13 caps, 7 tries, 35 points
10 Finn Russell (Glasgow Warriors); 1 cap
9 Greig Laidlaw CAPTAIN (Gloucester); 30 caps, 3 tries, 254 points

1 Gordon Reid (Glasgow Warriors); 1 cap
2 Scott Lawson (Newcastle Falcons); 44 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
3 Moray Low (Exeter Chiefs); 27 caps
4 Richie Gray (Castres); 39, 1 try, 5 points
5 Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh Rugby); 5 caps
6 Alasdair Strokosch (USA Perpignan); 39 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
7 Kelly Brown (Saracens); 63 caps, 4 tries, 20 points
8 Johnnie Beattie (Castres); 31 tries, 3 tries, 15 points

16 Kevin Bryce (Glasgow Warriors), uncapped
17 Kyle Traynor (Bristol Rugby); 4 caps
18 Geoff Cross (London Irish); 29 caps, 1 try, 5 points
19 Kieran Low (London Irish); 2 cap
20 Blair Cowan (London Irish); 1 cap
21 Grayson Hart (Edinburgh Rugby); uncapped
22 Ruaridh Jackson (London Waps); 24 caps, 18 points
23 Max Evans (Castres); 43 caps, 3 tries, 15 points

B. Form - head to head:

(includes 'Scotland XV' game in 1991)

5 Played 5
2 Won 3
3 Lost 2

(Scotland defeats were:

25 May 1991: Canada 24-19 Scotland XV
Saint John, New Brunswick

15 June 2002: Canada 26-23 Scotland
Vancouver, British Columbia)

C. Form - recent

22 Nov 2008
Scotland 41 - 0 Canada
Pittodrie Stadium, Aberdeen, Scotland

15 Jun 2002
Canada 26 - 23 Scotland
Thunderbird Stadium, Vancouver, Canada

08 Jun 2002
Canada 8 - 33 Scotland
Fletchers Field, Toronto, Canada

21 Jan 1995
Scotland 22 - 6 Canada
Murrayfield, Edinburgh, Scotland


Last edited by George Carlin on Sat 14 Jun 2014, 6:00 pm; edited 5 times in total
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Post by RDW Mon 09 Jun 2014, 8:58 am

You work quickly Mr GC!

I remember that game in 2008 for both good and bad reasons - my old school team mate Ben Cairns scored his first try for Scotland, but it was a howling gale with freezing sleet and I was in the part of the stadium that is uncovered so froze my nuts off!  Erm

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Post by Captain_Sensible Mon 09 Jun 2014, 9:35 am

Question - is Peter Horne in the touring squad?

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Post by alive555 Mon 09 Jun 2014, 9:45 am

Heres hoping for better conditions - as a poster on the scotsman coined in the last game "handling errors were an issue, but because of the heat there was probably a lot of Greece on the ball"

well said sir  thumbsup

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Post by RDW Mon 09 Jun 2014, 9:46 am

Horne is in the squad for the 2nd half of the tour

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Post by Captain_Sensible Mon 09 Jun 2014, 9:48 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Horne is in the squad for the 2nd half of the tour

Cheers. Might be good to draft him in early. The thought of Lamont at 12 terrifies me. I'd sooner play Bennett there, to be honest. Or Jackson at 10, Russell at 12 and Lamont/Bennett at 13.

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Post by RDW Mon 09 Jun 2014, 9:50 am

To be fair I'd rather have him at 12 than 13. At 12 he can crash up off 10 plus you can do a miss pass or dummy switch if you are needing to get the ball to the wider channels.  I just think he kills any form of decent attack out wide when he's in the 13 channel - he just runs straight into people.

Looking at the forecast it is meant ot be mid-20s. Still not great conditions for pasty Scots but much better than mid-30s!

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Post by Manky-Flanker Mon 09 Jun 2014, 10:27 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:To be fair I'd rather have him at 12 than 13. At 12 he can crash up off 10 plus you can do a miss pass or dummy switch if you are needing to get the ball to the wider channels.

Japan had a fair bit of success on the weekend running at Canada's mid field, scored two tries by going right through the middle. Sean might be in his element.

On one of those tries, a frustrated DTH smacked one of his own players who got in his way - accidentally of course.  Very Happy 

The flying Taylor Paris also scored a good try. Bet he'll be looking forward to going up against old teammates!

Highlights on the IRB website

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Post by RuggerRadge2611 Mon 09 Jun 2014, 10:29 am

We aren't actually seriously considering Lamont at 12? We must have better combinations than that!

10. Russel
12. Maitland
13. Bennett

10. Russel
12. Jackson
13. Bennett

10. Jackson
12. Russel
13. Evans

10. Russel
12. Beattie
13. Bennett.

I'm serious about Beattie at 12, I'd rather see him there than Lamont. After all he wouldn't be the first Scottish no.8 to make the switch!
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Post by RDW Mon 09 Jun 2014, 10:31 am

Radge, I think it is very much a case of needs must. Yes Russell can play at 12 and Bennet/SG at 13, but that is a very lightweight midfield pairing in an already lightweight backline.

We don't have the silky skills of the All Blacks to run round teams so we need a big lump in the middle to give us some go forward.

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Post by George Carlin Mon 09 Jun 2014, 10:32 am

Manky-Flanker wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:To be fair I'd rather have him at 12 than 13. At 12 he can crash up off 10 plus you can do a miss pass or dummy switch if you are needing to get the ball to the wider channels.

Japan had a fair bit of success on the weekend running at Canada's mid field, scored two tries by going right through the middle. Sean might be in his element.

On one of those tries, a frustrated DTH smacked one of his own players who got in his way - accidentally of course.  Very Happy 

The flying Taylor Paris also scored a good try. Bet he'll be looking forward to going up against old teammates!

Highlights on the IRB website
Looks like it was a quality match:

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Post by RuggerRadge2611 Mon 09 Jun 2014, 10:35 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Radge, I think it is very much a case of needs must.  Yes Russell can play at 12 and Bennet/SG at 13, but that is a very lightweight midfield pairing in an already lightweight backline.

We don't have the silky skills of the All Blacks to run round teams so we need a big lump in the middle to give us some go forward.

I would agree if we had Jamie Roberts in the middle. It's Sean Lamont!

Afterall we have been playing big lumps in the middle for "go forward" for the last 10 years! It hasn't exactly worked out for us!
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Post by RDW Mon 09 Jun 2014, 10:37 am

That Taylor Paris try was incredible!

Shocking midfield defence by Canada though - if only we had Scott and Dunbar running at them.

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Post by George Carlin Mon 09 Jun 2014, 10:49 am

According to the Hootsmon Hogg broke his nose in that game and His Jimness twisted his ankle so each has to be a doubt for the Canada game.
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Post by bluestonevedder Mon 09 Jun 2014, 11:10 am

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:We aren't actually seriously considering Lamont at 12?  We must have better combinations than that!

10. Russel
12. Maitland
13. Bennett

10. Russel
12. Jackson
13. Bennett

10. Jackson
12. Russel
13. Evans

10. Russel
12. Beattie
13. Bennett.

I'm serious about Beattie at 12, I'd rather see him there than Lamont. After all he wouldn't be the first Scottish no.8 to make the switch!

Hasn't Richie Vernon been turning out at 12 for Glasgow?

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Post by BigGee Mon 09 Jun 2014, 11:37 am

George Carlin wrote:According to the Hootsmon Hogg broke his nose in that game and His Jimness twisted his ankle so each has to be a doubt for the Canada game.

Hoggy played the whole game and did not seem to be in any trouble, so I would imagine he will play again. Jimbo looked crocked though and taylor, I imagine they will both be out.

I think we have enough backs available to mix and match a bit, so don't think we need any reinforcements there. My preference would be Jacko at 10, Russell at 12, Bennett at 13 and the same back three. Maxy has been playing well though and I would not be bothered if he got a start either.

Where we are going to be short is TH, as GC will be going home for obvious reasons. We have phenty of loosies, can any of them cover TH as well or do we need to bring in a spare to cover the bench with Low starting.

I know we should not be taking them to lightly but it is Canada we are playing not the all blacks and we really should be able to beat them with whatever backline we put out. i would imagine that he will want to give just about everyone who has come along a little bit of game time at least.

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Post by Captain_Sensible Mon 09 Jun 2014, 11:46 am

Here's who I'd pick

Reid, MacArthur, Low
Gray, Gray
Brown (c), Beattie, Cowan
Cusiter, Jackson
Russell, Bennett
Maitland, Hogg, Visser

Bench - Allan, Lawson, ???, Gilchrist, Denton, Hart, Evans, Lamont

Not a hope in hell of Laidlaw getting dropped, but there you go. Russell to take the place kicks.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Mon 09 Jun 2014, 11:48 am

Totally agree BigGee. The right combination for my money is Jackson in at 10 with Russell at 12. I might keep Lamont at 13 for the first 60 then look to bring Bennett off the bench, but would have no issue with Bennett starting alongside Russell. They may not be particularly physical but I'd back them both to make their tackles, and they would offer far more guile for our strong back three.

If Hamilton is out then Gilchrist is the obvious replacement. No particular weakness in that position.

I haven't yet watched the USA game, but we won the game and blooded some important new players, Russell in particular. A bigger score would have been nice, but there were some new combinations in that side who have not played together before, notably the half backs and midfield, so I'm not surprised we lacked sharpness. Also worth noting that neither centre can pass accurately - hardly a recipe for running in 50 points!

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Post by George Carlin Mon 09 Jun 2014, 11:53 am

Current IRB rankings:

Member Union/ Rating Point
1(1) NEW ZEALAND 93.81
2(2) SOUTH AFRICA 89.34
3(3) AUSTRALIA 86.88
4(4) ENGLAND 85.68
5(5) IRELAND 82.13
6(6) WALES 80.70
7(7) FRANCE 80.07
8(9)  ARGENTINA 76.44
9(8)  SAMOA 75.49
10(10) SCOTLAND 75.16
11(11) FIJI 74.21
12(13)  JAPAN 73.90
13(12)  TONGA 73.21
14(14) ITALY 72.05
15(15) CANADA 70.75
16(16) GEORGIA 70.46
17(17) ROMANIA 68.08
18(18) USA 67.21

So theoretically, they are much more of a risk than the US (ranked 3 places lower).

This is the current Canadian squad, which is interesting to compare to the US one:

[th]Player[/th][th]Position[/th][th]Date of Birth (Age)[/th][th]Caps[/th][th]Club/province[/th]
Ray BarkwillHooker(1980-08-26) 26 August 1980 (age 33)11Scotland Summer Tour, Game 2: Canada v Scotland, 14 June 23px-Flag_of_Canada.svg Ontario Blues
Aaron CarpenterHooker(1983-01-09) 9 January 1983 (age 31)54Scotland Summer Tour, Game 2: Canada v Scotland, 14 June 23px-Flag_of_England.svg Cornish Pirates
Benoit PifferoHooker(1987-05-21) 21 May 1987 (age 27)3Scotland Summer Tour, Game 2: Canada v Scotland, 14 June 23px-Flag_of_France.svg Blagnac
Hubert BuydensProp(1982-01-04) 4 January 1982 (age 32)22Scotland Summer Tour, Game 2: Canada v Scotland, 14 June 23px-Flag_of_New_Zealand.svg Manawatu Turbos
Jake IllnickiProp(1992-02-24) 24 February 1992 (age 22)2Scotland Summer Tour, Game 2: Canada v Scotland, 14 June 23px-Flag_of_Canada.svg BC Bears
Jason MarshallProp(1985-02-05) 5 February 1985 (age 29)24Scotland Summer Tour, Game 2: Canada v Scotland, 14 June 23px-Flag_of_France.svg La Rochelle
Andrew TiedemannProp(1988-07-21) 21 July 1988 (age 25)25Scotland Summer Tour, Game 2: Canada v Scotland, 14 June 23px-Flag_of_Canada.svg Prairie Wolf Pack
Jamie CudmoreLock(1978-09-06) 6 September 1978 (age 35)28Scotland Summer Tour, Game 2: Canada v Scotland, 14 June 23px-Flag_of_France.svg Clermont
Tyler HotsonLock(1985-05-30) 30 May 1985 (age 29)38Scotland Summer Tour, Game 2: Canada v Scotland, 14 June 23px-Flag_of_England.svg London Scottish
Jon PhelanLock(1986-01-20) 20 January 1986 (age 28)15Scotland Summer Tour, Game 2: Canada v Scotland, 14 June 23px-Flag_of_Canada.svg Atlantic Rock
Nanyak DalaFlanker(1984-06-18) 18 June 1984 (age 29)28Scotland Summer Tour, Game 2: Canada v Scotland, 14 June 23px-Flag_of_Canada.svg Prairie Wolf Pack
Adam KleebergerFlanker(1984-03-02) 2 March 1984 (age 30)37Scotland Summer Tour, Game 2: Canada v Scotland, 14 June 23px-Flag_of_Canada.svg BC Bears
John MoonlightFlanker(1987-07-02) 2 July 1987 (age 26)11Scotland Summer Tour, Game 2: Canada v Scotland, 14 June 23px-Flag_of_Canada.svg Ontario Blues
Jebb SinclairFlanker(1986-04-08) 8 April 1986 (age 28)32Scotland Summer Tour, Game 2: Canada v Scotland, 14 June 23px-Flag_of_England.svg London Irish
Tyler Ardron (c)Number 8(1991-06-16) 16 June 1991 (age 22)13Scotland Summer Tour, Game 2: Canada v Scotland, 14 June 23px-Flag_of_Wales_2.svg Ospreys
Phil MackScrum-half(1985-09-18) 18 September 1985 (age 28)18Scotland Summer Tour, Game 2: Canada v Scotland, 14 June 23px-Flag_of_Canada.svg BC Bears
Gordon McRorieScrum-half0Scotland Summer Tour, Game 2: Canada v Scotland, 14 June 23px-Flag_of_Canada.svg Prairie Wolf Pack
Harry JonesFly-half(1989-08-26) 26 August 1989 (age 24)9Scotland Summer Tour, Game 2: Canada v Scotland, 14 June 23px-Flag_of_Canada.svg BC Bears
Liam UnderwoodFly-half(1991-06-03) 3 June 1991 (age 23)6Scotland Summer Tour, Game 2: Canada v Scotland, 14 June 23px-Flag_of_Canada.svg Ontario Blues
Nick BlevinsCentre(1988-11-11) 11 November 1988 (age 25)17Scotland Summer Tour, Game 2: Canada v Scotland, 14 June 23px-Flag_of_Canada.svg Prairie Wolf Pack
Ciaran HearnCentre(1985-12-30) 30 December 1985 (age 28)33Scotland Summer Tour, Game 2: Canada v Scotland, 14 June 23px-Flag_of_Canada.svg Atlantic Rock
Pat ParfreyCentre(1991-11-01) 1 November 1991 (age 22)5Scotland Summer Tour, Game 2: Canada v Scotland, 14 June 23px-Flag_of_Canada.svg Atlantic Rock
Jeff HasslerWing(1991-08-21) 21 August 1991 (age 22)6Scotland Summer Tour, Game 2: Canada v Scotland, 14 June 23px-Flag_of_Wales_2.svg Ospreys
Taylor ParisWing(1992-10-06) 6 October 1992 (age 21)10Scotland Summer Tour, Game 2: Canada v Scotland, 14 June 23px-Flag_of_France.svg Agen
D. T. H. van der MerweWing(1986-04-28) 28 April 1986 (age 28)26Scotland Summer Tour, Game 2: Canada v Scotland, 14 June 23px-Flag_of_Scotland.svg Glasgow Warriors
Connor BraidFullback(1990-05-31) 31 May 1990 (age 24)9Scotland Summer Tour, Game 2: Canada v Scotland, 14 June 23px-Flag_of_Canada.svg BC Bears
James PritchardFullback(1979-07-21) 21 July 1979 (age 34)54Scotland Summer Tour, Game 2: Canada v Scotland, 14 June 23px-Flag_of_England.svg Bedford Blues
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Post by RDW Mon 09 Jun 2014, 11:55 am

Captain_Sensible wrote:Here's who I'd pick

Reid, MacArthur, Low
Gray, Gray
Brown (c), Beattie, Cowan
Cusiter, Jackson
Russell, Bennett
Maitland, Hogg, Visser

Bench - Allan, Lawson, ???, Gilchrist, Denton, Hart, Evans, Lamont

Not a hope in hell of Laidlaw getting dropped, but there you go. Russell to take the place kicks.

Yeah....quite a few of those players aren't in the squad!

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Post by Captain_Sensible Mon 09 Jun 2014, 12:19 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
Captain_Sensible wrote:Here's who I'd pick

Reid, MacArthur, Low
Gray, Gray
Brown (c), Beattie, Cowan
Cusiter, Jackson
Russell, Bennett
Maitland, Hogg, Visser

Bench - Allan, Lawson, ???, Gilchrist, Denton, Hart, Evans, Lamont

Not a hope in hell of Laidlaw getting dropped, but there you go. Russell to take the place kicks.

Yeah....quite a few of those players aren't in the squad!

Really? I thought most of the Glasgow players were being brought back in the for the second game? Ah well, silly me.

From that team, who would have to drop out? Cusiter, Gray Jnr, I presume?

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Post by RDW Mon 09 Jun 2014, 12:22 pm

Cusiter I injured, Gray jnr and Denton joining the squad in Argentina

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Post by alive555 Mon 09 Jun 2014, 12:22 pm

Captain_Sensible wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:
Captain_Sensible wrote:Here's who I'd pick

Reid, MacArthur, Low
Gray, Gray
Brown (c), Beattie, Cowan
Cusiter, Jackson
Russell, Bennett
Maitland, Hogg, Visser

Bench - Allan, Lawson, ???, Gilchrist, Denton, Hart, Evans, Lamont

Not a hope in hell of Laidlaw getting dropped, but there you go. Russell to take the place kicks.

Yeah....quite a few of those players aren't in the squad!

Really? I thought most of the Glasgow players were being brought back in the for the second game? Ah well, silly me.

From that team, who would have to drop out? Cusiter, Gray Jnr, I presume?

Browns and Bennett are not in the squad either, they are squad b . patchwork side time. Lamonts playing !

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Post by RDW Mon 09 Jun 2014, 12:26 pm

Fraser Brown?

Bennett is with them in Canada - he was called up last week.

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Post by Captain_Sensible Mon 09 Jun 2014, 12:27 pm

alive555 wrote:
Captain_Sensible wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:
Captain_Sensible wrote:Here's who I'd pick

Reid, MacArthur, Low
Gray, Gray
Brown (c), Beattie, Cowan
Cusiter, Jackson
Russell, Bennett
Maitland, Hogg, Visser

Bench - Allan, Lawson, ???, Gilchrist, Denton, Hart, Evans, Lamont

Not a hope in hell of Laidlaw getting dropped, but there you go. Russell to take the place kicks.

Yeah....quite a few of those players aren't in the squad!

Really? I thought most of the Glasgow players were being brought back in the for the second game? Ah well, silly me.

From that team, who would have to drop out? Cusiter, Gray Jnr, I presume?

Browns and Bennett are not in the squad either, they are squad b . patchwork side time. Lamonts playing !

Brown is already with the squad. He was a waterboy against the US. Bennett is with the squad now as well.

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Post by Captain_Sensible Mon 09 Jun 2014, 1:23 pm

Horne and Swinson join the squad for Canada - http://www.scottishrugby.org/news/14/06/09/horne-and-swinson-join-scotland-summer-tour

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Post by George Carlin Mon 09 Jun 2014, 3:01 pm

Glad Swinson is coming over but I want Gilchrist to start so I hope Timbo is bench cover only.
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Post by funnyExiledScot Mon 09 Jun 2014, 3:20 pm

Can't imagine they'd throw in Swinson straight off the plane and ignore Gilchrist who was part of the initial squad. Gilchrist deserves a start here.

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Post by BigGee Mon 09 Jun 2014, 3:26 pm

Need to consolidate on one thread here. This discussion is currently going on over three different ones!

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Post by George Carlin Mon 09 Jun 2014, 3:34 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:Can't imagine they'd throw in Swinson straight off the plane and ignore Gilchrist who was part of the initial squad.
Not unless Cotter is now following chapter 2, page 4 of "Rugby Coaching For Sheilas" by Scott Johnson.
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Post by funnyExiledScot Mon 09 Jun 2014, 4:11 pm

There surely has to be a wind-up strategy for Cudmore. He's a yellow/red card waiting to happen - shame Big Jim isn't available to wind him up!

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Post by funnyExiledScot Mon 09 Jun 2014, 4:13 pm

George Carlin wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:Can't imagine they'd throw in Swinson straight off the plane and ignore Gilchrist who was part of the initial squad.
Not unless Cotter is now following chapter 2, page 4 of "Rugby Coaching For Sheilas" by Scott Johnson.

Is that the book edited by Frank Haddock with a foreword on "team selection" from Andy Robinson? It's a great read that.

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Post by George Carlin Tue 10 Jun 2014, 6:55 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:Can't imagine they'd throw in Swinson straight off the plane and ignore Gilchrist who was part of the initial squad.
Not unless Cotter is now following chapter 2, page 4 of "Rugby Coaching For Sheilas" by Scott Johnson.

Is that the book edited by Frank Haddock with a foreword on "team selection" from Andy Robinson? It's a great read that.

 Laugh That's the one. Gordon McKie has a signed first edition bound in virgin calfskin in his office.
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Post by RDW Tue 10 Jun 2014, 7:52 am

The Scotsman are reporting that Geoff Cross is staying with the squad such is his commitment to playing for Scotland, and his father's death was a long term illness that didn't come as a surprise in the end.

What an absolute legend and massive respect to big Geoff  clap 

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Post by funnyExiledScot Tue 10 Jun 2014, 8:39 am

Hat's off to Geoff Cross. Even with a long term illness it's never easy at the end.

Still - he's spared us from seeing Kyle Traynor or Alex Allan playing international rugby at tighthead so I for one shall be forever grateful.

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Post by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 10 Jun 2014, 9:08 am

Indeed, chapeau, DrX

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Post by George Carlin Tue 10 Jun 2014, 9:34 am

Cross is a giant of a guy in all respects. On the playing front, I did read that he damaged his ribs against the USA and so whilst he may be staying with the squad, I don't think we can automatically assume he will be playing against Canada.
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Post by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 10 Jun 2014, 9:38 am

So looks like Euan Murray might be "persuaded" to join the tour having made himself unavailable previusly - still with no club attachment, there are said to be a number of French teams sniffing around.

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Post by RDW Tue 10 Jun 2014, 9:45 am

Cuttita seemed confident he would play, and if he was injured there would be little point hanging around because I don't think he's in the 2nd tour squad.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Tue 10 Jun 2014, 9:48 am

I'm moving towards drawing a line under Euan Murray. In comparison to the committment just shown by Geoff Cross, he falls woefully short in my opinion. Shame, because during his pomp he was an extremely useful tighthead prop, but with Welsh stepping up, Cross playing well, Low hopefully about to rediscover himself in ASBO land and Nel due to qualify soon, the case for persevering with Murray when he's made it clear that playing for Scotland is not a top priority is starting to crumble.

Even at his very best his allround game wasn't what it should have been. His best game was probably the match against South Africa in the AIs where he owned the Beast, but I can also recall games (twice against Domingo if I remember correctly) where he's been penalised out of the game, failed to adapt and added to that a poor overall shift around the park. Coupled with the "Sunday issue", and the fact that he now seems to have become a club journeyman, I think we may be wise to just treat him as off the radar. The best case is that he joins a club like Wasps, Saints or Leicester, has an Indian summer to his career just in time for the World Cup. More likely he disappears off to France and retires from international rugby.

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Post by reallybored Tue 10 Jun 2014, 10:05 am

Harsh on Murray FES, if he's fit and playing well next year I have no problem with Cotter selecting him.  Would like to see Welsh get a chance though.

Looking forward to Canada game, hopefully we'll step up from last week and conditions will be better.

What's looking likely?

1 - Reid
2 - MacArthur (Lawsons arrows weren't 100%)
3 - Low (assume Cross is going home now)
4 - Gilchirst (probably)
5 - Gray
6 - Brown
7 - Cowan
8 - Beattie

9 - Laidlaw (doubt Hart will start, maybe Pumas)
10 - Russell
11 - Visser
12 - Lamont (Taylor out, possibly Horne but just joined squad)
13 - Bennett (would be disappointed if Evans started at 13)
14 - Maitland
15 - Hogg

Not as strong up-front with Low & Gilchrist instead of Cross & Hamilton.

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Post by Dorothy_Mantooth Tue 10 Jun 2014, 10:34 am

reallybored wrote:Harsh on Murray FES, if he's fit and playing well next year I have no problem with Cotter selecting him.  Would like to see Welsh get a chance though.

Looking forward to Canada game, hopefully we'll step up from last week and conditions will be better.

What's looking likely?

1 - Reid
2 - MacArthur (Lawsons arrows weren't 100%)
3 - Low (assume Cross is going home now)
4 - Gilchirst (probably)
5 - Gray
6 - Brown
7 - Cowan
8 - Beattie

9 - Laidlaw (doubt Hart will start, maybe Pumas)
10 - Russell
11 - Visser
12 - Lamont (Taylor out, possibly Horne but just joined squad)
13 - Bennett (would be disappointed if Evans started at 13)
14 - Maitland
15 - Hogg

Not as strong up-front with Low & Gilchrist instead of Cross & Hamilton.

Harsh to drop Lawson on the basis on his throws not being great, when McArthurs were poor as well. Lineout issues we have go far deeper than the Hooker. As no matter who is throwing we seem to have problems.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Tue 10 Jun 2014, 10:37 am

I probably am being harsh, but when was the last time Euan Murray had a genunely strong patch of form? He's judged largely on past glories, and a fact of modern rugby is that games happen on a Sunday. Cotter needs to build the pack, and it's hard to do that if the cornerstone (a) isn't playing well, (b) doesn't have a club and (c) isn't available (by choice) for key matches.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Tue 10 Jun 2014, 10:40 am

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:Harsh to drop Lawson on the basis on his throws not being great, when McArthurs were poor as well.  Lineout issues we have go far deeper than the Hooker.  As no matter who is throwing we seem to have problems.

This is absolutely right. On occassion Ford has been hammered for his lineout throwing in a Scotland jersey, but on several occassions he threw and no-one in a Scotland jersey jumped. That sort of shambles is not an individual error but a team failing.

MacArthur was behind Dougie Hall at the end of the season, rightly so. I've been a critic of Hall in the past, but he's unlucky not to be in a Scotland jersey at the moment.

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Post by George Carlin Tue 10 Jun 2014, 2:31 pm

Yes, it was a bummer Dougie had to have surgery because I honestly believe he's the best rounded hooker that we have.

Essentially agree with FES about Euan Murray. I think that we just want him to be better than he (probably) currently is, although it is undeniable that he lifts his performances for Scotland games.
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Post by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 10 Jun 2014, 2:41 pm

When will Humphries accept responsibility for the abortion that is Scotland's lineout?

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Post by Majestic83 Tue 10 Jun 2014, 2:43 pm

Don't think we will see Euan Murray in a Scotland jersey again. Cotter is building the squad for the world cup. The group stages are ok for Scotland as there are no Sunday games but if we make it through the quarter final could well be a sunday and same with the Semi Final. Don't think Cotter will want to use up a position in the team for someone who might not be available to play especially when he isn't in great form and other likes Welsh and Cross are playing better.
Think the props we will see being used in the build up to the world cup will be Grant, Reid, Welsh, Cross and Low as the main the ones who will be at the world cup.

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Post by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 10 Jun 2014, 2:44 pm

Looks like Geoff across has decided to see the tour out too clap

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Post by Solid8 Tue 10 Jun 2014, 2:48 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:Harsh to drop Lawson on the basis on his throws not being great, when McArthurs were poor as well.  Lineout issues we have go far deeper than the Hooker.  As no matter who is throwing we seem to have problems.

This is absolutely right. On occassion Ford has been hammered for his lineout throwing in a Scotland jersey, but on several occassions he threw and no-one in a Scotland jersey jumped. That sort of shambles is not an individual error but a team failing.

MacArthur was behind Dougie Hall at the end of the season, rightly so. I've been a critic of Hall in the past, but he's unlucky not to be in a Scotland jersey at the moment.

Against Canada I really would like to see the lineout operate on the type of basic calls that you would expect to see at a veterans game, ie front, middle, back and (occasionally) long. Keep it simple let the players gain some confidence in what they are doing. Against a team like Canada we need to keep it simple, play percentage rugby and retain possetion to build pressure. Assuming this goes well we should then begin to increase the complexity of calls against stronger opposition in the latter tests. We cannot build confidence unless we address the fundamentals.

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Post by RDW Wed 11 Jun 2014, 7:40 am

Looks like it will be Gray and Gilchrist in the 2nd row - a nice mobile and athletic 2nd row but they are very much going to have to man up against Jamie Cudmore!

Interestingly gilchrist will be calling the lineout - this is his chance to lay down his marker because Hamilton is the only established lineout caller available.

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