Are there too many lower-ranked teams in the World Cup?

First topic message reminder :

Thread title changed from "Should England be allowed into the next round early?" - KRD

Its clear Georgia, Romania and Scotland are really poor teams, is there any real point in these games going ahead, I mean England are going to win all three so is there any point in playing them and risk English players picking up injuries, which would ultimately rob the tournament of their skills and talent in the later stages.


These games are going to be cricket scores.

The problem is that with all the Summer and Autumn tours between the top teams, it's very easy to look down on matches against lower ranked teams.


A tournament that only includes the top 10 teams, is essentially just a combined 6nations and tri/quad nations.
I get to see each of those each year.... and i get to see those teams tour to each other most years as well.

It hardly makes the World Cup exciting.... it would just be the same as any other year and any other tour.

You might as well call the World Cup the 'Cup winners Cup' and have the TriNations winner play the 6nations winner.



How would you plan on determining the tier 1 teams and the tier 2 teams?
Fiji surely warrant their place in a RWC every 4 years.
However, they're currently ranked behind Canada in the World Rankings... yet you seem to feel that Canada shouldn't be here.



Personally, I'd keep the RWC as it is (or very similar) but work on improving the quality of these other teams.
England A often play against Canada, which has improved Canada as a team.
Surely getting regular 'A' team tours to Canada, Japan, USA etc will help to improve them.

As the article said about Namibia, they've had 2 big games in 4 days, and 2 big games in 4 years.
What we should be doing is sending the England 'A' team to Africa for a tour to play Namibia, Kenya and S.A. 'A' team.

If other tier 1 countries were to do that regularly, it would help to improve the quality of the minnow nations, whilst improving the experience of the 'A' team players

rugbyfan wrote:

Comfort wrote:To be honest guys, all this talk of the lower ranked teams has OBVIOUSLY taken the media coverage away from whats really important, England.

I can count on 2 hands the number of times Jonnys drop goal from 8 years ago has been mentioned, thats not even into double figures.

screw the "minnows", more england, and talk of england, and footage of their brilliant result and performance against Argentina and most importantly, MORE OF THAT KICK!

Where did that rant come from? Feel better now it's off your chest?!!!

Way better!

...well, since that kick has been mentioned, it was rather good, wasn't it?

Seemed to hang in the air for ages. Time went into slo mo. Sound faded away completely....



...then the stadium absolutely erupted!

And a few moments later - in case you have forgotten - England won the 2003 World Cup!

Cowshot wrote:And a few moments later - in case you have forgotten - England won the 2003 World Cup!

Yup but sadly it was a long time ago and nearly all those players have retired now!

2003 is not ancient history. That bright winter´s day in 1987 seems like yesterday. All the years in between have flown by so fast, I don´t think it´s possible to keep track of them all.

JAPAN vs NZ

Point Proven,

Pointless game, rugby union is the loser here, how can the RWC be classed as a showcase event for the sport with mismatches like this.

Some of you will say I'm wrong but the proof is in the pudding.

How did i know you would resurrect this boring thread

actually this is tournament rugby, Japan HAS to field a lesser team to the kiwis and take a hammering cos they want to try and get a win versus Tonga and Canada. Not great for the tourney, but what else do you expect Kirwan to do?

This is why NZ won't win, they'll be under cooked when they come up against the real teams, as for the thread why is it boring it’s a serious issue surrounding the growth of this game world wide.

you keep raising the same subjects on other threads, you've made the point, the point has been blunted repeatedly against the ethos of World Rugby, development and common sense.

we have the 6n and the 4n for the top sides to play plus the autum internationals.

RWC is the only chance for the developing nations to showcase for their players, the sport and their fans.

now give it a rest

If this post were a horse, I´d report you to the RSPCA.

damage_13 wrote:you keep raising the same subjects on other threads, you've made the point, the point has been blunted repeatedly against the ethos of World Rugby, development and common sense.

we have the 6n and the 4n for the top sides to play plus the autum internationals.

RWC is the only chance for the developing nations to showcase for their players, the sport and their fans.

now give it a rest

+1

Maybe a meaningful 2nd tier competition would help these teams out more in between world cups?

Looking forward to the highlights package against Georgia...

HERSH - it's a showcase event of world rugby on and off the pitch. Not a showcase of a few games of the elite teams only.

Obviously rugby plays centre stage in the event, but it's also an opportunity (sometimes of a lifetime) for fans from all over the world to get together and enjoy the rugby, atmosphere, and banter.

Right for the last time, I'm not against these teams taking part but they should have to earn the right to be there by playing more games between world cups, Namibia have hardly played since the last world cup and then the IRB expect them to play two games within 4/5 days

That’s madness.

One of the other posts had it right they should play a smaller scale competition between world cups to give these guys some help in playing more pressured games against opposition they can compete with.

NZ v Jap was a washout and pointless for both teams, and its funny how NZ always seem to draw Japan in their group and I guess it was by luck that France (NZ bogey team) was drawn in their group so they didn't have to face them again until the final, Hmmm I wonder!

HERSH,

Go and (re-)watch the Japan V France game and then come back and delete your thread.

Yes Japan took two steps forward against France, just imagine what they could do if they had more meaningful games to play between world cups, but after today Japan took another three or four steps backwards.

I'd rather watch paint dry than have to watch the NZ v Japan again, painful and embarrassing for the IRB I'd imagine, oh no sorry, I forgot the IRB couldn't careless about teams like Japan, Namibia etc... so long as the big three SH teams are happy with the game.

You´d rather watch paint dry or England v Georgia. Difficult to separate the fun from those two...

I would kiakahaaotearoa , once England pass 65 points I'll be turning the TV off

HERSH wrote:Yes Japan took two steps forward against France, just imagine what they could do if they had more meaningful games to play between world cups, but after today Japan took another three or four steps backwards.

I'd rather watch paint dry than have to watch the NZ v Japan again, painful and embarrassing for the IRB I'd imagine, oh no sorry, I forgot the IRB couldn't careless about teams like Japan, Namibia etc... so long as the big three SH teams are happy with the game.

I think though i heard Japan played a virtual second string side today to conserve playeres for more winnable games. Thats their choice. They were 25-21 down against France at the hour mark. You can't take that away from japan, and I'm sure they were glad they had that opportunity and were proud of it.

whos taking it away from them?

They need more games before they get to a world cup, you never know they might give the Scots a game then.

HERSH wrote:I would kiakahaaotearoa , once England pass 65 points I'll be turning the TV off

jeebus thats some amount of drop goals!

Once England pass 6 points I´ll be turning the TV off.

Yes, because it´ll be full time.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Once England pass 6 points I´ll be turning the TV off.

Yes, because it´ll be full time.

roddersm I thought you'd be watching your famous wins against the all blacks DVD!

What are the odds of Ireland beating Aus 250-1, 500-1???

HERSH wrote:roddersm I thought you'd be watching your famous wins against the all blacks DVD!

What are the odds of Ireland beating Aus 250-1, 500-1???

I was looking for that DVD on Amazon HERSH, but I couldn't find it for what ever reason? ...they did however have a 7 box set entitled famous Ireland victories over England in the professional era....

If you can get those odds HERSH I'd advise you to put a couple of quid (or your mortgage) on it

ok

hersh I'll give you a +1 for this

"Im not against these teams taking part but they should have to earn the right to be there by playing more games between world cups"

But that, is mainly down to the way the national boards arrange their fixtures.

You also forget that a lot of these sides are still semi pro and there is no money in their country for rugby (i.e. no viewers, no advertising, no tickets etc) for them to get that they need

A: a good semi/pro league

B: players playing to tier 1 level in other leagues

C: GETTING THEIR NATIONAL TEAM IN THE WORLD CUP


The defence rests ... again, no bill, I'm doing this Pro Bono

roddersm wrote:

HERSH wrote:roddersm I thought you'd be watching your famous wins against the all blacks DVD!

What are the odds of Ireland beating Aus 250-1, 500-1???

I was looking for that DVD on Amazon HERSH, but I couldn't find it for what ever reason? ...they did however have a 7 box set entitled famous Ireland victories over England in the professional era....

If you can get those odds HERSH I'd advise you to put a couple of quid (or your mortgage) on it

HERSH wrote:I would kiakahaaotearoa , once England pass 65 points I'll be turning the TV off

Wud dat be the one you wot robbed in da riots? Innit?

HERSH wrote:JAPAN vs NZ

Point Proven,

Pointless game, rugby union is the loser here, how can the RWC be classed as a showcase event for the sport with mismatches like this.

Some of you will say I'm wrong but the proof is in the pudding.

I couldn't dissagree with you more.

I like the direction this thread is going.

I agree the IRB should do more, they have forced tier 1 teams to tour countries like the Islands, North America and Japan.

I think they should also create a European Cup, to run when the Lions are on tour.

Yeah I argee the weaker teams need to be playing more often in more meaningful matchs aganist the likes touring teams and and playing once off challenge matchs. If these teams keep going the way they are then in 10 years they will be aiming to win these kind of matchs.

It is my belief that at the 2019 World Cup Japan will get to the semis or further. Why? Because they have a rapidly growing league which is increasing in standard year by year, the game is increasing in numbers playing and they will be at home.

They have all the big companys sponsering/owning the teams and therefore they have the money. The key I think is obvious and is to build from club level up as this is where the players play the most and a good standard is needed. As far as I know Namibia play in South Africa as a club which clearly helps them. This is the way forward imo along with high profile matchs which will get alot of media coverage in these countrys.

Irish Curry wrote:Yeah I argee the weaker teams need to be playing more often in more meaningful matchs aganist the likes touring teams and and playing once off challenge matchs. If these teams keep going the way they are then in 10 years they will be aiming to win these kind of matchs.

It is my belief that at the 2019 World Cup Japan will get to the semis or further. Why? Because they have a rapidly growing league which is increasing in standard year by year, the game is increasing in numbers playing and they will be at home.

They have all the big companys sponsering/owning the teams and therefore they have the money. The key I think is obvious and is to build from club level up as this is where the players play the most and a good standard is needed. As far as I know Namibia play in South Africa as a club which clearly helps them. This is the way forward imo along with high profile matchs which will get alot of media coverage in these countrys.

So in 8 years Japan are going to go from being blown away to semi 'or better'.

Irish Curry wrote:Yeah I argee the weaker teams need to be playing more often in more meaningful matchs aganist the likes touring teams and and playing once off challenge matchs. If these teams keep going the way they are then in 10 years they will be aiming to win these kind of matches.

It is important to make Rugby a more global game.

Look at how much we enjoy it, surely spreading the gospel of the sport can only help more people to enjoy the game as much as we do, whether they brilliant at it or not.

I am sure that Mr Onozawa, one of the few Japanese players to ever score against the All Blacks would have been very proud of his try.

Japan's B team got beaten by a NZ team that, lets face it blow everyone away in the group stages. If it were not for a lack off fitness and the monumental effort they put causing them to be out on there feat they could have beaten france so it really isn't so far fetched.

Irish Curry wrote:Japan's B team got beaten by a NZ team that, lets face it blow everyone away in the group stages. If it were not for a lack off fitness and the monumental effort they put causing them to be out on there feat they could have beaten france so it really isn't so far fetched.

Wherever you are, sit down and take a deep breath and don't operate any heavy machinery for oooh , at least a year or two

If you think im mad maybe you might like to back up your arguement with some proper points instead of just denying everything I say.

Not having a battle of wits with an unarmed man

Or is it you, sir, who are the unarmed man

Yes you are right, i have no evidence whatsoever to support the notion that i do not believe that Japan will reach the semi or final of the 2019 RWC.

I am not saying that just that you are not producing any of it.

Curry

if i started i think i might still be writing it when RWC 2019 opens....come on you just have no credibility when you make such a statement and i can't be bothered to put any evidence to you if you can't make that judgment yourself you just don't know enough about your subject

Look I know its a rash statement to make but its possible because of the points I have already made. Its pointless arguing with you when you don't even bother.

try and tell john Kirwin or mr Onozawa that japan should'nt be in the World cup.

there is no argument, that is my point.

I am not going to list the cricket scores Japan have suffered at the hands of SH opposition, that they haven't even played SA, have lost 7/7 to Wales, 1/1 to England, 4/5 to Argentina, 4/4 to Australia, 2/2 France, 4/4 Italy, 5/5 Ireland, they lost a game to holland, 9/11 to Samoa, 3/3 Scotland....should i go on? That they are ranked 13th in the world and are firmly entrenched in the 3rd tier of rugby nations, that they're 46% win rate is based largely on beating Chinese taipei, Canada, hong Kong and South Korea

they have won one game at RWC v Zimbabwe, that giant of world rugby, and drew with Canada in 2007. But in 8 years, with no international competition of note in the interim, they will go from obscurity to a RWC semi!

You're embarassing yourself and me. Now go find a dictionary and look up 'rugby'

What japan were like 10 years or more ago is hardly relivent. My point is that there are rapidly improving and if they continue to then the semis is a possibleity.

Is the only response i can muster, we're done here, keep deluding yourself and by all means have the last word

Your just been childish at this point. Not once have you raise a valid point. Not once. Come back when you have something constructive to add to this debate.

If we want to consider this honestly, then I think that it's most unlikely that Japan will progress deep into the knockout stages even by 2019.

However, having said that, in 2006 Japan were ranked 20th in the World.
In the 5 years since then, they've improved to 13th.
That surely shows a great improvement in their ability.
At the same time in 2006, Argentina were ranked 8th.

Just a year later, Argentina went on to reach the semi finals of the World Cup.

Rugby is currently the fastest growing sport in Japan, and they do have a competitive league which is attracting a number of established players from various nations.
Given that platform, it is not totally beyond the realms of possibility that Japan could improve sufficiently in 8 years to be able to compete with a number of nations and get out of their group.


Having said all that, I won't be betting much money on it occurring.